This is basically just an arms race scenario. And, like the U.S. and the U.S.S.R., players don't really benefit from over-inflating their gear budget (or stockpiling 10,000 nukes). The armaments industry (i.e. Cryptic/PWE), however, does.
I could see a case for a player that's at a lower level of gear than the rest in a match using them to close that gap, but if everyone does it, he's just as far and no one really benefits, except for the ones selling the stuff. Saying you want everyone to run with them is basically saying you want to give Cryptic more money for no real benefit.
And now we are back to why we agreed a LONG time ago to not use them
Ardent Favor shop is bad enough as it is, removing Elixirs from PvP would just make them completely worthless. You going to use an Elixir for PvE?
Seems the only legitimate debate on the matter is when two top-geared premades both senselessly buy them only to nullify the advantage they offer, making them a waste of money for these players and nothing more. The solution is to agree not to use them in these circumstances. If you can't agree not to use them, I'm sorry, but that is your problem, and not everyone else's.
--- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
Ardent Favor shop is bad enough as it is, removing Elixirs from PvP would just make them completely worthless. You going to use an Elixir for PvE?
Seems the only legitimate debate on the matter is when two top-geared premades both senselessly buy them only to nullify the advantage they offer, making them a waste of money for these players and nothing more. The solution is to agree not to use them in these circumstances. If you can't agree not to use them, I'm sorry, but that is your problem, and not everyone else's.
So all the time it is =/ shame, but at least we all know now.
I don't know if it's because no one read my post or because you just ignore important information when you don't understand a mathematical term. Let me try again:
Player A with 13k GS, player B with 16k GS. If both take Elixirs, it basically closes the gap in gear between those two (except armor/weapon enchantments). Why? Because of the diminishing returns! While they will make the 13k GS player hit his soft cap, the BiS player will get almost nothing from it.
My GWF is built in a way that I have more Tenacity and more HP (stats you cannot get from Elixirs). Using Elixirs makes me hit my caps. If my opponent, who has built his character without counting in Elixirs (or even built it without using ACT or similar combat trackers, just like "I feel Armpen is good, Power is good, Tenacity is good...", rule of thumb estimate), uses Elixirs, I'm happy with it. Because I know that I will profit a lot more from them. So no, they don't nullify the advantage. They never have. They are part of your equipment like everything else, just temporary... like Black Ice in M3.
And if you feel like not giving Cryptic money, although they kinda deserved it for hosting a game we enjoy:
- no higher weapon enchantment than normal
- no higher armor enchantment than lesser
- no higher enchantment rank than rank 5
- only pvp sets
- no vital rings, belt, neck
- only one artifact, max rank 30, no emblem
This is called evening things out, saving resources.
And now we are back to why we agreed a LONG time ago to not use them
I don't know who "we" are. But, whoever "you" are, if you think that majae's statement is correct, then you don't understand basic math. The stats in Neverwinter are not linear!
God how ignorant are you meldanen? that is the whole point of why elixirs should be removed, because they give you stats you cant normally get! the fact is if you build your gwf a certain way why shouldnt you sacrifice tankiness or dps, thats what makes builds unique and you're build is definatly not unique, every half decent gwf ( if you can apply the word decent to a gwf) is already stacking max hp + tenacity rolling in full elixirs into premades just shows a lack of skilled gameplay, a undergeared team can beat a overgeared team with emblems no problem you just have to be good
I don't know who "we" are. But, whoever "you" are, if you think that majae's statement is correct, then you don't understand basic math. The stats in Neverwinter are not linear!
He was saying also, that all decent pvp guilds ran premades without elixirs because it was stupid to have to pay money to negate an advantage when you should be able to beat the other team based on skilled gameplay, but since you are so adamant upon using elixirs in premades i guess we know how skillful you are, also please use Shard of endless avalanche, i know its a new concept to you, but repel is terrible.
Also, did you ever see Lemonade stand ( while it was still around) chocolate shoppe and enemy team use elixirs in a set up premade? i think not, and those are the top pvp guilds
on topic: who's gonna buy my elixirs on AH tho that is such a horrible thing to think off, i get a hundred elixirs every week from my alt army, so I'm with meldenanen!
I only use it when both team are dead even(skill/gear wise, not score). Which rarely happens.
It is just that if you use all that elixir and lose 1 v 1 or your whole team use it and still lost, would be quite embarrassing unless you are outgeared by miles which is not the case in top PVP community when everyone is rolling 9s/10s.
Pug games wise, who cares. Nothing should be taken seriously in a pug game. There absolutely no balance in it, it is a simple matter of one stomp the other side in general.
God how ignorant are you meldanen? that is the whole point of why elixirs should be removed, because they give you stats you cant normally get!
how is that different from having rank 10s and emblem? i dont see it. different build and using resources available in game. looks like someone is poor in real life and jealous.
it was stupid to have to pay money to negate an advantage when you should be able to beat the other team based on skilled gameplay, but since you are so adamant upon using elixirs in premades i guess we know how skillful you are
are you using enchantments > rank 7? do you have 3 artifacts instead of 1? omfg, you suck so bad! skillless loser
Also, did you ever see Lemonade stand ( while it was still around) chocolate shoppe and enemy team use elixirs in a set up premade? i think not, and those are the top pvp guilds
Since EoA crushed Chocolate A-Team with arround 1000 - 200, i would say EoA is the only TOP guild out there atm.
This is DnD... pots are huge part of what the gaming experience should be, in fact i'd advocate for more variety of those, real pots that affect gameplay and strategy, offensive and defensive, invisivility pots, enlarge person pots, firebreathing pots, slow pots, haste, slippery oils, etc... i use pots even for PvE, because that's what a smart adventurer do, go as prepared as possible to a fight, and those elixirs are FREE FFS! you can get 1 for 2 days of praying, i use the alts coins for gathering them for my main and my main coins for the angel, but if you dont want to use those elixirs, you can use greater pots that are about 100ad each, and will be even cheaper in mod 3 as they drop like candy in the ice, those are half as powerful as the elixirs and are cancelled when dying, but as they're cheap you can just repot and halve the dissavantage of the elixirs at a very reduced cost.
Pots are great, pots are fun and i feel the gameplay would improve (better use of alchemy profesion) with utility pots.
The so called top pvp guilds also abused every single exploit there has been so far, in game. From the GF 1 hitting glitch, to perma stealth solo dungeon farming along with every other possible terrain exploit / refining shard exploit etc. Getting free perfects & free rank 10's plainly from stealing/exploiting then having the guts to hop onto the forums and QQ about elixirs, does not really make much sense to me.
what in the f*** are you blabbing about, perma stealth solo is an exploit? ROFL might as well ban all the TRs that used STEALTH in PvE.
looks like someone didn't know how to farm AD in this game, running CN multiple times mod1 and before it will give you a MILLION AD per day. you remind me of that guy who posted about lockboxes, he was whining because someone else was winning a lot of epics while he is not.
what in the f*** are you blabbing about, perma stealth solo is an exploit? ROFL might as well ban all the TRs that used STEALTH in PvE.
looks like someone didn't know how to farm AD in this game, running CN multiple times mod1 and before it will give you a MILLION AD per day. you remind me of that guy who posted about lockboxes, he was whining because someone else was winning a lot of epics while he is not.
Sorry but a single character soloing an epic dungeon, by using a broken game mechanic is considered an exploit. If you like it or not. If you can't comprehend what's right and what's wrong don't post and spread false "informations", at all.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
My GWF is built in a way that I have more Tenacity and more HP (stats you cannot get from Elixirs). Using Elixirs makes me hit my caps. If my opponent, who has built his character without counting in Elixirs (or even built it without using ACT or similar combat trackers, just like "I feel Armpen is good, Power is good, Tenacity is good...", rule of thumb estimate), uses Elixirs, I'm happy with it. Because I know that I will profit a lot more from them. So no, they don't nullify the advantage. They never have. They are part of your equipment like everything else, just temporary... like Black Ice in M3.
Ok, as an Elixir enthusiast, let me be more specific: in an organized PvP premade, we can always decide what we use and what not upfront.
Since almost all premades run without elixirs and with no restrictions on emblems/gear, are you implying that you optimized your GWF for pug-stomping?
Or are you trying to change the dynamic? If you want to change the dynamic, then eventually builds will be modified to optimize pots (just as yours). Then we're back to square 1: pots are an arms-race. Right now, they provide you an advantage over more-geared players because those players have agreed not to optimize their builds for pots.
As Godlysoul mentioned, mod 3 brings temporary gear. black and white becomes grey.
He was saying also, that all decent pvp guilds ran premades without elixirs because it was stupid to have to pay money to negate an advantage when you should be able to beat the other team based on skilled gameplay, but since you are so adamant upon using elixirs in premades i guess we know how skillful you are, also please use Shard of endless avalanche, i know its a new concept to you, but repel is terrible.
Also, did you ever see Lemonade stand ( while it was still around) chocolate shoppe and enemy team use elixirs in a set up premade? i think not, and those are the top pvp guilds
I'm not even gonna go into detail on that post. All I can say is that if people from our guild would talk like that on the NW forums, they would not stay in our guild for long. A certain class should be maintained. And this is the problem: Enemy Team, Chocolate Stand, Lemonade Stand - they were all awesome guilds! But why was Lemonade Stand that good? They were a small group of friends who really liked playing together, they were a closed circle; so was CS for a while. And then they started recruiting everyone, people like you, adamy2004. You are not CS, you are not LS. Your are just someone who joined in a "free for all" phase. And based on your language and lack of ability to argue constuctively, it would really surprise me to find out that you are an excellent player (since it requires clear communication). Especially, since I haven't seen you in game before. Most of the people that defined CS/LS either quit or died with LS.
I like ET a lot. They never had problems with pots, though. In premades, they always potted up when they saw people pot up. No QQ. Unfortunately, ET is practically dead.
Anyway, don't be surprised if CS loses once in a while. It's not CS that is good. It's certain players. Some people have to get used to CS' rotations, other just need more practice against specific builds/classes.
As to Elixirs, my previous post says everything. I'm not that much into underclass trash talk. But I'd be happy to hear some constructive arguments against pots that actually refer to my views.
Only 1 person out of 5 was using pots! that is right 1, gonna say this again JUST ONE, you would think CS dishing out defeats to everyone left, right and center could take a defeat with good sportsmanship .
And that whole last part just makes no sense at all, you do realize some of us were far from being BiS, one of us even had 2 blue artifacts...
Only 1 person out of 5 was using pots! that is right 1, gonna say this again JUST ONE, you would think CS dishing out defeats to everyone left, right and center could take a defeat with good sportsmanship .
And that whole last part just makes no sense at all, you do realize some of us were far from being BiS, one of us even had 2 blue artifacts...
I understand the position you are in requires you to stand up for your own guild, but going too far would ruin your guild's reputation instead.
You win with a legit EoA A team, while chocolate did not. I would give credit for the win since it is chocolate and they are tough, being able to go 1000-200 is something, but not really worth mentioning. Even one weak player would throw the entire premade when you playing at this level. And Chocolate clearly have at least one.
I'm not even gonna go into detail on that post. All I can say is that if people from our guild would talk like that on the NW forums, they would not stay in our guild for long. A certain class should be maintained. And this is the problem: Enemy Team, Chocolate Stand, Lemonade Stand - they were all awesome guilds! But why was Lemonade Stand that good? They were a small group of friends who really liked playing together, they were a closed circle; so was CS for a while. And then they started recruiting everyone, people like you, adamy2004. You are not CS, you are not LS. Your are just someone who joined in a "free for all" phase. And based on your language and lack of ability to argue constuctively, it would really surprise me to find out that you are an excellent player (since it requires clear communication). Especially, since I haven't seen you in game before. Most of the people that defined CS/LS either quit or died with LS.
I like ET a lot. They never had problems with pots, though. In premades, they always potted up when they saw people pot up. No QQ. Unfortunately, ET is practically dead.
Anyway, don't be surprised if CS loses once in a while. It's not CS that is good. It's certain players. Some people have to get used to CS' rotations, other just need more practice against specific builds/classes.
As to Elixirs, my previous post says everything. I'm not that much into underclass trash talk. But I'd be happy to hear some constructive arguments against pots that actually refer to my views.
PM sent. And I wouldn't say we "crushed" them.
god meldanen i was around in lemonade stand also i was around in spades before that. and I was one of the people who got requiem to make CS so next time please learn who you are speaking to before you decide to type random HAMSTER in a forum
Comments
And now we are back to why we agreed a LONG time ago to not use them
Ardent Favor shop is bad enough as it is, removing Elixirs from PvP would just make them completely worthless. You going to use an Elixir for PvE?
Seems the only legitimate debate on the matter is when two top-geared premades both senselessly buy them only to nullify the advantage they offer, making them a waste of money for these players and nothing more. The solution is to agree not to use them in these circumstances. If you can't agree not to use them, I'm sorry, but that is your problem, and not everyone else's.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
So all the time it is =/ shame, but at least we all know now.
Not sure what this means
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
It's like every other thread. If you dont agree with a position, you are mad, or not contributing to the discussion.
Player A with 13k GS, player B with 16k GS. If both take Elixirs, it basically closes the gap in gear between those two (except armor/weapon enchantments). Why? Because of the diminishing returns! While they will make the 13k GS player hit his soft cap, the BiS player will get almost nothing from it.
My GWF is built in a way that I have more Tenacity and more HP (stats you cannot get from Elixirs). Using Elixirs makes me hit my caps. If my opponent, who has built his character without counting in Elixirs (or even built it without using ACT or similar combat trackers, just like "I feel Armpen is good, Power is good, Tenacity is good...", rule of thumb estimate), uses Elixirs, I'm happy with it. Because I know that I will profit a lot more from them. So no, they don't nullify the advantage. They never have. They are part of your equipment like everything else, just temporary... like Black Ice in M3.
And if you feel like not giving Cryptic money, although they kinda deserved it for hosting a game we enjoy:
This is called evening things out, saving resources.
I don't know who "we" are. But, whoever "you" are, if you think that majae's statement is correct, then you don't understand basic math. The stats in Neverwinter are not linear!
He was saying also, that all decent pvp guilds ran premades without elixirs because it was stupid to have to pay money to negate an advantage when you should be able to beat the other team based on skilled gameplay, but since you are so adamant upon using elixirs in premades i guess we know how skillful you are, also please use Shard of endless avalanche, i know its a new concept to you, but repel is terrible.
Also, did you ever see Lemonade stand ( while it was still around) chocolate shoppe and enemy team use elixirs in a set up premade? i think not, and those are the top pvp guilds
fight! fight! fight! fight!
on topic: who's gonna buy my elixirs on AH tho
It is just that if you use all that elixir and lose 1 v 1 or your whole team use it and still lost, would be quite embarrassing unless you are outgeared by miles which is not the case in top PVP community when everyone is rolling 9s/10s.
Pug games wise, who cares. Nothing should be taken seriously in a pug game. There absolutely no balance in it, it is a simple matter of one stomp the other side in general.
how is that different from having rank 10s and emblem? i dont see it. different build and using resources available in game. looks like someone is poor in real life and jealous.
are you using enchantments > rank 7? do you have 3 artifacts instead of 1? omfg, you suck so bad! skillless loser
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
Since EoA crushed Chocolate A-Team with arround 1000 - 200, i would say EoA is the only TOP guild out there atm.
Pots are great, pots are fun and i feel the gameplay would improve (better use of alchemy profesion) with utility pots.
what in the f*** are you blabbing about, perma stealth solo is an exploit? ROFL might as well ban all the TRs that used STEALTH in PvE.
looks like someone didn't know how to farm AD in this game, running CN multiple times mod1 and before it will give you a MILLION AD per day. you remind me of that guy who posted about lockboxes, he was whining because someone else was winning a lot of epics while he is not.
Tymora's Coin is as good as some of those elixers. Should it be banned too?
Sorry but a single character soloing an epic dungeon, by using a broken game mechanic is considered an exploit. If you like it or not. If you can't comprehend what's right and what's wrong don't post and spread false "informations", at all.
Since almost all premades run without elixirs and with no restrictions on emblems/gear, are you implying that you optimized your GWF for pug-stomping?
Or are you trying to change the dynamic? If you want to change the dynamic, then eventually builds will be modified to optimize pots (just as yours). Then we're back to square 1: pots are an arms-race. Right now, they provide you an advantage over more-geared players because those players have agreed not to optimize their builds for pots.
As Godlysoul mentioned, mod 3 brings temporary gear. black and white becomes grey.
Iyon the Dark
LOL?
Video or troll confirmed.
I'm not even gonna go into detail on that post. All I can say is that if people from our guild would talk like that on the NW forums, they would not stay in our guild for long. A certain class should be maintained. And this is the problem: Enemy Team, Chocolate Stand, Lemonade Stand - they were all awesome guilds! But why was Lemonade Stand that good? They were a small group of friends who really liked playing together, they were a closed circle; so was CS for a while. And then they started recruiting everyone, people like you, adamy2004. You are not CS, you are not LS. Your are just someone who joined in a "free for all" phase. And based on your language and lack of ability to argue constuctively, it would really surprise me to find out that you are an excellent player (since it requires clear communication). Especially, since I haven't seen you in game before. Most of the people that defined CS/LS either quit or died with LS.
I like ET a lot. They never had problems with pots, though. In premades, they always potted up when they saw people pot up. No QQ. Unfortunately, ET is practically dead.
Anyway, don't be surprised if CS loses once in a while. It's not CS that is good. It's certain players. Some people have to get used to CS' rotations, other just need more practice against specific builds/classes.
As to Elixirs, my previous post says everything. I'm not that much into underclass trash talk. But I'd be happy to hear some constructive arguments against pots that actually refer to my views.
PM sent. And I wouldn't say we "crushed" them.
Agreed. This is not a discussion anymore (it never was).
More seriously pot up or shut up, what stops you from doing it yourself? absolutely nothing, what a useless thread .
What was accomplished?
One win, congratulations.
At what cost?
Forcing everybody to pot up to be on par.
Of course, when you are one of the richest players in Neverwinter, why would you care.
And that whole last part just makes no sense at all, you do realize some of us were far from being BiS, one of us even had 2 blue artifacts...
Hahahaha!! I need to see the video of this!
PM sent. That is no A team.
I understand the position you are in requires you to stand up for your own guild, but going too far would ruin your guild's reputation instead.
You win with a legit EoA A team, while chocolate did not. I would give credit for the win since it is chocolate and they are tough, being able to go 1000-200 is something, but not really worth mentioning. Even one weak player would throw the entire premade when you playing at this level. And Chocolate clearly have at least one.
god meldanen i was around in lemonade stand also i was around in spades before that. and I was one of the people who got requiem to make CS so next time please learn who you are speaking to before you decide to type random HAMSTER in a forum