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Back after a break: Did Domination get even worse?
darwinsdog
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
I figured I'd try out PvP Domination after being away for a few months. I watched as an enemy player (maybe a rogue, I never really saw it) sat on one point and could not be killed. At one point 3 of us were fighting just him. Not only did we all die, but we didn't even get the other guy below half HP. I'll admit, I'm a "low level" level 60 (still sporting some blue gear, haven't even done dread spire yet), but I figured 3v1 would be pretty good odds for us.
The best part was when someone on my team blamed the 3 of us for losing the match. LOL. If we can't kill 1 guy 3 on 1, how do we even have a chance of winning?
Anyways, sorry to my potential teammates. I need the AD, so I'm going to keep entering Domination and not really trying. Maybe I'll get lucky and end up on a team with one of those invisible killing machines and get a win or two.
The best part was when someone on my team blamed the 3 of us for losing the match. LOL. If we can't kill 1 guy 3 on 1, how do we even have a chance of winning?
Anyways, sorry to my potential teammates. I need the AD, so I'm going to keep entering Domination and not really trying. Maybe I'll get lucky and end up on a team with one of those invisible killing machines and get a win or two.
Post edited by darwinsdog on
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By playing more matches, it will then be able to more precisely place you on even enemies. So, if you lose alot, you'll probably be placed among the worst.. and by winning, you'll slowly climb up the rank and face better opponents. CMIIW
Altho sometimes the system might go wacky for no known reason and place you in lopsided matches.
Not gonna lie perma stealth is literally god-mode. You cannot be killed whatsoever (Sometimes you die though). If a good perma stealth holds a node. The other team will most likely never take it for the rest of the game.
I realized how bull**** this was and switched back to Combat-Style Rogue (Non-perma stealth, traditional TR) and replaced my Bilethorn with a Plaguefire just to test it out.
Tenacity to "fix" fights being quick by normalizing damage, though all it really does is make the have and have not's farther apart.
ELO to have the better pvpers fighting themselves and the bad ones fighting themselves. All it does is not work, matches are still mostly 1 sided.
Healing Depression to nerf PVP Regen builds. It just makes DC heals bad for everyone, not just for themselves.
- JailBreak (in development)
These right here are your issues. You not only don't know they are issues, but think the guy pointing them out to you wrong.
So to explain.
- If you cannot kill the perma, you contest with him. One guy, not more. Realtively good choices are another perma, a GWF, a HR
- if you can kill the perma, it shouldn't take 3 people, but 2 at most. It also needs to be fast so you can move from that point back to where your team is suffering as the enemy has superiority
- you died cause you are not built to suffer the rigors of PvP. Also you probably faced a very geared TR, while you have what? Rank 5s? No weapon/armor enchant? 20K HP?
- you were blamed correctly for being the cause of the loss. You shouldn't have tried all the game to kill a single person, while your team fought 2vs4 (...) at other points.
Perma 1, inexperienced PvPers 0. Good job MR. unknown TR.
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My point is that if one of them was worth 3 of us, we had no chance from the start. We actually did leave him alone after a few tries. Ya know what happened? He left the point and started killing us in other places.
So apparently the thing to do is for someone to have the joy of "contesting" their point; meaning charge in and die repeatedly for the whole match. Then you just have to hope that the opposing team doesn't have 2 of them because then you have absolutely no chance since each one can hold a point solo.
On the bright side you'll never see me in a PvP queue again. "Suffer the rigors" indeed.
Thorn ward doesn't even hit them in stealth, it's a waste.
Can I ask your regular play time per week in PVP and your Gear + Class?
Problem is his def is so high we hardly put a dent on him, killed us all each together at least 3 time and only end at 1/2 life. He didnt even bother to stealth, by the 3rd time
By the 4th death i gave up and end up sittting in the campfire zzz. Seriously i'm a 11k Cw with HV set and cant debuff him for peanuts
I've had great luck with Thorn Ward. I guess it's just me.
Thorn Ward to locate them, then Boar's, then Fox Shift. Handy little combo.
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Well gear/class and skill aside your mindset was wrong form the get go, in terms of the cards in your hand you could have played.
Well form the limited information i gathered form what you said.
If leaving him alone caused him to leave node, it means person can go and cap, the tr would have to go back to regain cap, forcing him to go back and forth.
1 tr is not worth 3 of you, of different classes,he can kill 3 of you but he is not 3 of you, Which have thier corresponding cc and prones, and a moving body that can hold a node or stall.
He can only be in 1 place at one time.If i could allow my team even a tiny bit of advantage i would willing die multiple times, provided it had a purpose, in stalling or keeping them bust, fighting to kill and fighting to stall are vastly different, and also come with different encounters.
If that person said those thigns about the 3 fo you, he probably understood the team had a chance, but the 3 of you did not know how to adapt and change modes form ganging up to stalling, and spreading out.
The fact 3 of you guys tried more then once, against the same person meant your 2 teammates who might have stood a chance with your help was fighting a 2v4 battles, a few times.
And honestly speaking even if you were similarly geared you would have lost anyways, with a similar geared but decently experienced team.
While certain matches are plain impossible and can't be blamed on you and the 2 others, at the very least your pvp "game" still has room for improvement if nothing else.
What about a team of 2 or 3 permastealths? a class that can contest a node by itself might be bad to deal with, multiples and it becomes a roflstomp. Ive played a game or 2 with 3 permastealths... a perma node contester, that you either just bilethorn die to, or cant deal with him because EACH one can pretty much make sure you never cap a node bites.
What about 1(or more) permastealths + CWs or GWFs? fighting something that you have to focus on finding in the first place is hard when the enemy team can just come on up and stunlock/prone/cc you til you die.
The prime way I consider pvp imbalance right now is team compostion: a team with multiple permastealths is brutal, a team with multiple gwfs is a roflstomp, and pre-tenacity teams of DCs and CWs were just a respawn fest.
Ive dealt with permastealths, and theyre not fun or easy to deal with. In a 5v5 game, its hard to keep focused on one, when the enemy can jump on your back at any time. Sure, theres tactics to deal with them. Ive been on my HR trying the "thorn ward/running around spamming fox's shift tactic, just to get backattacked by a CW/GWF/GF screaming "easy kill!". Ive also lol'ed every time im on the team with the permastealth, cuz it ends up being a free kill hitting that CW retreating, or any other class running around frantically finding that 1 guy annoying at least a couple members of the enemy team.
P.S. the poster who said thorn ward doesn't work on stealthed characters... Is that true? I argue with TRs who whine that it does(mind you, these are people who think TRs are the weakest pvp class), back when I tried that tactic, but then I run across others who say it doesn't. Just want to get a final answer on that.
1) The matching system is pants on head <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I've played heaps of PvP over the last couple of weeks (probably a hundred games or more) and I've consistently run into lopsided matches going both ways (for, or against me). I have during that time had exactly one really amazing (59 minute!) battle that came down to something like 3 points. It was epic. It was also like 1 game out of a hundred (or more).
2) Perma-stealth needs to go away, in the hands of a player that's not an idiot, it really ruins domination matches. And no, it's not because I can't kill them, but because it's just annoying and seemingly against the spirit of the domination game. If you want to keep it, then I would suggest a trade off that makes it so that stealthed characters do not contest nodes, or that being on a contested node brings you out of stealth. That seems fair to me and the same level of risk/reward everyone else has.
3) HR mobility/dodge in the hands of a good player is also similarly game breaking. Thankfully most of them are derp-heads so they don't fight on the point, and don't just kite people forever doing so. The ones that know how to do this are actually pretty skilled, but the problem is that no one should be able to turtle that well to contest a node against multiple people (and I've seen one do it against three, which I watched for a good minute until I had to put an end to it).
Honestly, asides from the obviously bad matching system, the only thing(s) I have a problem with are areas where the game drags too much. I honestly think that HR kiting is less of a problem than TR perma-stealth for this because it takes a heck of a lot more skill, but I would also say that if you look at a good GF player, he'll be able to contest a node for a very long time against 2-3 guys that are playing dumb because he's still very positional focused and of limited mobility - which seems closer to about right to me (although, they have a huge advantage on the hotenow map because of the elevated platforms and the knockbacks, which while I always find amusing to watch other people get knocked off the platform, is really annoying to me that I have to keep my back to the wall all the time when facing one who is good - but then again, I suppose that's part of the challenge...)
I don't know, maybe I'm rambling here, but I wouldn't have a problem with either perma-stealth or HR kiting/dodging if it wasn't for the mechanics of how node contesting works. Maybe there's a better way to fix this by looking at that mechanic?
Nice attitude, and besides, your strategy doesn't work.
2 is almost always going to be contested (especially in hotenow). Even if the one person manages to survive enough to keep your home point contested most of the time, their home point is going to be uncontested most of the game so they'll have a steady stream of points.
Your strategy leaves your team almost never having a source of points from an uncontested node, meaning an almost guaranteed loss.
What you're talking about?
What I said was for the particular case of the OP, where 3 (three) people couldn't kill a single TR, and died to it as well lol.
In a "true" game, with PvPers in it, a floating DPS will usually come help clear the TR, cap home base, then fight off point to delay enemy contesting player that tries to get to the point.
But this was a pug game, with pugs that couldn't kill a TR 3vs1. So same strategy is not applying, as they were unable to do pretty much anything.
As for the enemy home point. Is it my fault that pugs don't understand the simple principle of back-capping?
1.Elo system worked but the queue times were too long, in the end they bottlenecked up to a point, and we sorta got this current one i think.
2.I see no problems for perm stealth, especially since black ice gear does not give stealth bonus, so perm stealth will be in t 2.5 gear,, while evreyone else will rock Black ice T3. It simply a matter of changing play style that annoys people.
3.Hr seems to be going though changes wiht path find so no comment.
Yes, it is a bad idea to try to kill a tough perma with 3 players, but leaving 1 to continuously die to the perma to contest the node (the guy's suggestion) doesn't work either, unless your team also has a perma that can contest their node.
I'm pretty positive I've taken damage from thorn ward when playing on my rogue while stealthed.
You don't understand.
He doesn't have to die.
This should be a team effort.
What this means is that someone contests with the perma, denying the enemy points from that tower. Then if he gets low on HP, and your team has a DC, he should run, throw a Healing Word/Astral Shield/Emblem, run back to mid.
No DC? You must have at least a DPS then. It has to be decent enough to be able to clear the perma fast. HRs are great at killing TRs. Run in, kill perma, run back.
Of course, in a pug game with pug players there's nothing you can do for these things to happen.
Pugs want to kill my TR or my GWF each time I step on the dancefloor. They want it so much, they get tunnel vision on it, even as the CW/HR in my team are destroying them from range safely.
So in the end, it might be a pug thing that only pugs understand, flocking to kill a perma or a senti.
Eh, running to get healed then running back... you might-as-well die and respawn probably faster. And a DC covering 2 nodes is not likely to last long.
HRs are decent at killing permas, but it's not going to happen fast. In the OP's scenario, 3 of them couldn't kill him so I doubt 1 HR was going to do it.
No matter what your strategy, a good perma is going to mean there's going to be 2 contested nodes all game (best case scenario), meaning you only really have a shot at going for their node.
Yes, I understand people are dumb and whole teams waste time playing with perma rogues, but I also understand that perma is OP at contesting points, and there really isn't a good strategy to deal with them.
Took me awhile to realize i was quoted but most were already answered by other people, anyways the point i was getting at wasn't to die continuously(unless it served a purpose, if you can drag it out),but to keep said tr busy or stop node form ticking for as long as you can before you need to stall death or pull back and mix and match people who can do something about it, should it be worth the effort.
Reason i mention death is because the op emphasizes it and im replying its fine if it serves a purpose and can be used to serve a purpose,I never implicitly told player to die consecutively fast, as that serves no purpose.
After all theirs 3 nodes not 1, and if tr chases you then node he was guarding is uncontested so 1 person go and cap it again, while tr is chasing you.
Rather then call it a strategy as i only mentioned stalling and reallocating assets to other nodes,it's just correct decision making or "game", which has relatively little to do with skill,gear or class.
Their are many reasons you lose, but i think proper decision making is at least one of the factors you can control on where you should be and who to help,and where to stall or contest, and even if you did lose, you still did whats best in said situation, which is preferable to losing because of poor decision making or in addition to poor decision making.
Yes, it does damage and reveals the location. Right now it's the best way to detect a TR in stealth.
I looked over the patch notes on the preview shard for the last few weeks and saw nothing about it not revealing a TRs location. I truly hope the power stays that way, as it's (in my opinion), the best way to counter a stealth TR.
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See what I mean? Differing accounts of thorn ward working and not working, as I said.