I disagree, scrambles. CtG is absolutely viable now. It's just a slight shift in rotation. For a normal pull, pre mod 3, for a typical group of 3 minions + 1 "brute," it would go Split Shot, Split Shot, Marauder's Rush, Fox Shift/Aimed Strike, Steel Breeze. (ME + another SS if needed)
after 3, we have to reverse our thinking. We're used to wiping the trash immediately with range, then the brute in melee. Try doing this instead - it's working quite effectively on Preview for me right now...
Aimed Shot, Marauder's Rush, Fox Shift/Clear the Ground, Clear the Ground, Steel Breeze (ME + Elec Shot if needed)
This is besides the point. Having to respec and change PvE playstyle because PvP players moaning about PvP imbalance (which they are ALWAYS going to do anyway) is just bologna.
Say all you want about changing and adapting, this is not the way to go about class balance.
And everyone knows the class that really needs a whack with the nerf hammer, HR ain't it.
Also I don't think you have a right to tell people to 'stop crying'. You don't have to read or certainly need not reply to any posts made here. Players voicing legitimate concerns are they only way changes are (or not) made.
This is besides the point. Having to respec and change PvE playstyle because PvP players moaning about PvP imbalance (which they are ALWAYS going to do anyway) is just bologna.
Say all you want about changing and adapting, this is not the way to go about class balance.
And I don't think you have a right to tell people to 'stop crying'. You don't have to read or certainly need not reply to any posts made here. Players voicing legitimate concerns are they only way changes are (or not) made.
The Split Shot nerf didn't have a whole lot to do with PvP I don't think. Fox Shift probably did.
Split Shot was overperforming the most in PvE, and while a 45% nerf is staggeringly huge it's not as bad of a nerf (25%) for Archery who are the most likely to use it anyway. With the other buffs and changes it's a lot more tolerable, even if it's mostly single target buffs. Now Combat has their own At-Will (Clear the Ground), although Nature is still broken even with Pathfinder.
I'm guessing Nature is going to go the way of Oppressor and Instigator, where no one plays it outside of maybe PvP or not at all. The 'buffs' to Oaken Skin are pretty much worthless; Pathfinder's Satchel heal is so much better that you don't seem to really need Oak Skin to back it up since it's not a viable primary healer either way.
If you were already in love with Nature, Pathfinder does make it better for what it's worth.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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tajah23Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 32
Having to respec and change PvE playstyle because PvP players moaning about PvP imbalance ... is just bologna.
I don't know if this is your first MMO or not, but change is the very nature of class balance. Adaptation is something that is common across this entire genre.
As for the pvpers whining, I'm not going to disagree that they do. However, think of it this way: If there were a skill to one-shot anything and make you invincible, it would be used, PvE and PvP both. Now those using it in PvE will be able to complete dungeons more easily, and eventually word would get out, making the majority of players start using it. This would basically ruin the content, turning the game into "easy mode."
If that same ability is used in PvP, people are going to start raging on the forums, and raising absolute hell over it. It is probably going to be visible to the development team more quickly, and patched out through balances.
I know that's an extreme example, but it truly takes perspectives from both sides of the coin to achieve a true balance. (Balance is harder than most people think. There isn't a game that has been able to get it perfect. Every balance pass bring out some new alpha class/ability... even if EVERYTHING got nerfed, the players will still figure out what's best of what's left._
Read my post again: I KNEW someone would bring in the 'change is part of any MMO' argument. To which I brought up two points; HRs are NOT the class that needs a nerf, I think we all know which class I refer to. Also, tweaking class abilities from a PvP standpoint without consideration to PvE is not the proper way to pursue balance.
Split Shot is fine the way it is. No change to it is needed, it is not a factor creating a huge imbalance in the game. 45% is too large a hit. The change feels more like response to PvP player complaints and/or 'herding' players to another class. Either reason is frankly disgusting in my view and unfair to HR players who use the ability as a part of their build.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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tajah23Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 32
edited April 2014
I honestly disagree with the "split shot is fine" argument. 1-shotting any non-elite mob is fine for single target, not an aoe.
By no means am I disputing the CW/GWF as currently overpowered. The GWF changes on Preview are going to help a lot with that. The dev statement about CWs being "complicated" is their excuse/reason why CW changes aren't happening at the moment.
As to pvpers complaining about split shot, I just don't see that happening with the current meta. HR's mobility is the one thing cryptic absolutely got right, and that's the biggest complaint I've heard.
Nobody even uses split the sky for pvp...with good reason, it's bad for it. Ive tried it myself and it's far less useful than what you paint it like here ^^ also have seen HRs use both thorn and split the sky as you describe it here and fail miserably so....no. And even then, split the sky is also getting a nerf in case you failed to read the notes before they took them down (i cant find them anymore at the place they used to be).
Maybe split shot IS opd to a degree, but talking about perfect vorpals and stuff like that doesnt make sense anyway bcs not everyone can afford that to begin with. So then what, HR is being relegated to a class that wont be good if you dont have a perfect vorpal? Relegated to be a support class that wont be able to do anything by itself, not even getting rid of someone who comes after them? About Fox I'll just repeat myself: Anyone who used HR knows that Fox Shift has to be used only on ONE target. Why? Bcs if you use Fox shift on more than one target the dmg is going to be split to ridiculously low amounts between them. The more targets you hit, the less dmg you will do to your main target. Its only good if you only have ONE target bcs it will concentrate all the dmg on it, so now if u cant hit the same target more than once...what then? What will you hit it with? I'd like to point out that we are talking about the ONLY good melee encounter HR has. There is no other, all the other encounters on melee form suck, so once the nerf comes in game there is nothing else to do but respec and forget about close combat. To me its not acceptable.
So after respec, what's next?? Archery build is rendered useless with such a severe nerf on the only at will that truly does dmg. Cant talk about rapid shot, it sucks, cant talk about electric bcs it sucks as well. You can just go in and run like a sissie around , kiting the attention you get for dropping AoEs that barely even do any dmg if thats what youre into. Since you cant rely on fox anymore to dmg the TR or GWF who comes to you......theres nothing else for it, run around and wait for someone to come rescue you, the weak one. So Nature build maybe? Its something that's just there but you try to ignore bcs its not good for anything.
Everyone agrees on the OPdness of SS, but 40% is simply too much. They are not giving HR users any option but delete HR and reroll to CW...which is already happening mind you. That, or quit playing this and head elsewere, which is already happening as well.
Devs need to rethink this, split shot nerf is too severe. Fox's is uncalled for and too severe as well. Class will be dead after this. Consider the fact that it is only *the most* played class since Mod 2 release.-
Maybe split shot IS opd to a degree, but talking about perfect vorpals and stuff like that doesnt make sense anyway bcs not everyone can afford that to begin with.
I pretty much stopped reading right here when I realized you were talking about PvP. Sorry.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I pretty much stopped reading right here when I realized you were talking about PvP. Sorry.
This. Point is I can see that they are balancing for PVP but the outcome is that they get neutered for PVP. I likely spam splitshot less than many other HRs by building an effective encounter cycle. Which will no longer work when they nerf StormStep. And honestly none of this is why HRs are OP in PVP. It's the synergy of lone wolf and tenacity that turns it into a striker that is tanky as all hell.
I pretty much stopped reading right here when I realized you were talking about PvP. Sorry.
It says its about pvp like...within the first sentence...lol why do you reply at all then? And just so you know what affects the class on PvP will affect it as well for PvE. If you believe the dmg values go different on PvP from PvE you are sorely mistaken.-
Also id like to point out that in a way every class is OPd for that matter. CW is OPd with the amount of CC, low time on CC cooldowns and ridiculously high dmg output they have. GWF..theres noone who can say hes never run into a GWF that seems to be impossible to kill while killing targets with relative ease. TR and the abuse of stealth. What i dont get is what is bothering people so much about HR. In pvp i get killed fast and easy if im focused by 2 or more with around my same gear score if i dont make a run for it, just like any other class.
Nerfing the classes is not the answer bcs they are just further breaking balance. What they need to fix is the queue that throws lvl 60 players with 8K gs against 12 or 15Ks in pvp. In this scenario ANY class will look OPd and tanky and impossible to kill.-
I'm kind of amazed at how people who play HR's think that nerfing splitshot is going to kill the character, I actually rarely use splitshot other than to draw aggro, and even when I've been the lvl 45 in a group of otherwise all 60's (which has included TRS & at least 1 other HR) I've consistently been the #1 or #2 damage dealer at the end of the skirmish. Personally I find split shot has limited real use in PVP due to the time it takes to cast at full strength, I only use it to pepper shot when I'm trying to distract a group of the enemy team from mobbing one or two my team.
For me, HR's are harassers in PVP. Sniping and dodging, laying down traps (the tower), not letting the enemy get away with a sliver of HP and making it hard for an enemy to fight someone on your team directly in one place without that fight being high risk. Then when targeted, you use that mobility to kiting all over the place, maybe taking a hit or two but staying mobile so your enemy gets fixed on trying to get you while your teammates take them out. HR shouldn't be fighting the same way direct way a GWF does, for example. Even when I do 1 on 1 in PVP, I stay very mobile, keeping my enemy in the circle of my tower and applying grasping roots and chipping them down with my single shot. They don't usually last long.
The buffs being done are going to MORE than make up for the nerf of split shot. And overall I think it's going to be great for the class because it will hopefully weed out the bad players who would be better suited on a more straightforward class, and make HR have actual value in dungeons because the rest of the group can have more confidence the person playing knows what they're doing.
I think it really does come down to people just not knowing how to play the class and effectively use the skills. I've gone toe to toe with a full HP CW in PVP starting with less HP myself, and won more than once just by staying mobile and using my skills tactically. And there is absolutely no reason why an HR who knows how to play and build their stuff cannot solo any PVE (with the exception of dungeons) - I'm kind of shocked someone's struggling with Sharandar mobs. The fault is definitely NOT with the class in that case.
Not every class suits every player, I can't actually get into the groove with CW at all, and I'm finding DC an interesting challenge to learn how to play usefully and well. This is exactly how it SHOULD be. Games in which all players can play all classes equally well are boring and unbalanced.
CW is certainly OP in general however. I personally think the issue is that there's such low cool down between their nuke powers. If they increased those to be maybe 3 - 5 seconds higher than they are right now it could really help make CW's play more strategically and make them less of an avalanche of destruction. But I'm not a CW expert, so I could well be wrong.
I'm kind of amazed at how people who play HR's think that nerfing splitshot is going to kill the character, I actually rarely use splitshot other than to draw aggro...
Oh, draw aggro you say? So that you can 'tank' them? What you refer to is the very thing most people hate the absolute most about HR in PvE content...amusingly since HR gets no aggro increasing skills you would need to realize that Split Shot 'draws aggro' with pure damage. Think about that a second.
You'll be #1 with that style, but you'll probably be kicked a lot for being a jacktard too. At least I would kick you, and I generally like HR's. (And this assumes there isn't a competent CW or GWF, which would smoke you in PvE if you weren't spreading the add's all over the place.)
The buffs being done are going to MORE than make up for the nerf of split shot.
If you look at the dates on some of these posts you'll find that many of them were made before the 'buffs' to HR were announced, which was during the short window of time where Cryptic was doing nothing other than the 45% nerf to Split Shot. So keep that in mind sparky.
I think it really does come down to people just not knowing how to play the class and effectively use the skills. I've gone toe to toe with a full HP CW in PVP starting with less HP myself, and won more than once just by staying mobile and using my skills tactically.
Uhh...so you can beat the weakest PvP class. Cute.
CW is certainly OP in general...But I'm not a CW expert, so I could well be wrong.
You are. CW are not OP at all in PvP if you bothered to read any posts in the CW forums on this very topic. PvE is a totally different story.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I think another reason people tend to use splitshot so often is because of how it works. You can control when it shoots because you can press it quickly or hold it for more focus. It doesnt get interrupted. It works in a cone which is particularly effective. I think the general mechanics are more to blame than the damage. In my opinion, it feels more usable than rapid shot sometimes.
I'm against the nerf and have stated it multiple times. Changed the way Aimed shot works and give it a chance to interrupt instead of always being interrupted and personally I would rather see electric shot have a cone effect and a chance to stun (even with a damage increase, its basically a slower rapid shot that has aoe sometimes if another mob or player is right next to it.
I know there are better ideas than mine and my general point is that it could probably be fixed by changing a few mechanics on the at-wills that are not very effective.
Well spacejew, you certainly took my post personally... not sure why. You certainly showed me where my place was! I will admit, I am pretty cute though.
Oh, draw aggro you say? So that you can 'tank' them? What you refer to is the very thing most people hate the absolute most about HR in PvE content...amusingly since HR gets no aggro increasing skills you would need to realize that Split Shot 'draws aggro' with pure damage. Think about that a second.
You'll be #1 with that style, but you'll probably be kicked a lot for being a jacktard too. At least I would kick you, and I generally like HR's. (And this assumes there isn't a competent CW or GWF, which would smoke you in PvE if you weren't spreading the add's all over the place.)
No you misunderstand me, sorry if I didn't explain well enough. I don't draw aggro to tank, but to take pressure off a player who's got aggro they don't need to be handling, like when a DC gets mobbed. I can quickly pull aggro with split shot as I am more mobile and can take a little damage while the GF or GWF takes over the tanking (if they're wrapped up with a mob and are a little slower to disengage to take the aggro from the others back) and then I can go back to sniping.
I haven't yet been kicked from any party... and actually have been thanked a few times. So my heavy support style can't be that bad. I'm sure if I play with you some time you will point out the errors of my ways swiftly.
I did notice the date spread through this thread, but here we are after the other buffs have been announced and people are still complaining about the split shot nerf. Does patronizing me about that change the fact people are STILL complaining, even after the buffs were announced?
I don't read the CW forums because I don't play CWs and haven't had a reason to look at those forums yet. But I know most players of OP classes don't complain that their class is OP lol in fact they will often complain they're not OP enough. I do play quite a lot of PVP however and in my experience (which isn't the same as everyone's of course), I hear people *****ing a LOT if there's CW's in the opposing team because of the amount of nuking and immobilizing they can do at range. So that's what I'm basing my comments on about that. Again, I kind of don't care because I don't play CW's and they aren't any more of a challenge to me than any other class in PVP. But I have heard others complain.
No you misunderstand me, sorry if I didn't explain well enough. I don't draw aggro to tank...
I can quickly pull aggro with split shot...while the GF or GWF takes over the tanking...
What you describe isn't 'support', it's 'DPS' plain and simple. I only misunderstand what you're describing because you keep reinforcing the idea that you're 'tanking' even when you correct me to state that you aren't doing it to tank. 'Support' is providing buffs/debuffs/healing/tanking, which are all technically present in HR even if all of the buff/debuff/healing/tanking HR has is of questionable use. (Heal does less than regen or lifesteal on their own, mitigation buffs that fall off due to DoT, mitigation buff's that only last for one hit, no reliable debuff/CC, many powers deaggro, deflect buffs bad at sustained mitigation)
Just thought I'd let you know that people don't much appreciate being forced to chase add's because of your 'helping'; but maybe you're smart about it. After all I don't know you, perhaps you're one of the few that actually use Marauder's Escape/Forest Ghost for aggro purposes. It can be done well, I will admit that much, but I think what you're describing is just the standard 'oops I did too much damage now I have aggro' rather than 'Hey I meant to do that, I'm a tank!'
Well spacejew, you certainly took my post personally...
I don't take anything personally, I just get annoyed when I see people extolling the virtues of a play style that I know full well most players intensely dislike, myself included, for a variety of reasons you may or may not have thought of. If your premade likes it, that's all that matters though.
EDIT:
You should probably separate your PvE and PvP commentary too, it makes it really difficult to know what you are actually talking about.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
The thing is, outside of Split Shot, the HR is woefully underpowered. None of the buffs I saw are going to help the HR compete with GWF or CW. And Split Shot nerf is going to cripple the damage which was ALREADY LACKING.
So please, explain to me once again how Split Shot is so massively overpowered that it must undergo a 45% nerf?
How they manage to justify nerfing split shot before bringing CW's to heel is staggeringly, game breakingly stupid of Cryptic.
split shot is a daily that can crit up to 10k per hit (probably more with vorpal) and it is the go-to power for all HRs because it is effective. too effective. there is no other class that has an AoE daily with such power. the devs are balancing the reduction of split shot with adjusted encounter powers.
of course, when one class gets changed, defenders of the class want to point out how unfair that is by attacking other classes. but the devs have already stated that all classes are being looked at including the CW which is a much more complicated resolve due to the fact that a number of CW powers are not benefiting from armor pen. once they fix that, they will need to adjust accordingly.
any balancing that occurs needs to be tested thoroughly internally before they even bring it to the preview shard.
not to mention they are also diligently working to release a new module which limits the focus.
split shot is a daily that can crit up to 10k per hit (probably more with vorpal) and it is the go-to power for all HRs because it is effective. too effective. there is no other class that has an AoE daily with such power. the devs are balancing the reduction of split shot with adjusted encounter powers.
of course, when one class gets changed, defenders of the class want to point out how unfair that is by attacking other classes. but the devs have already stated that all classes are being looked at including the CW which is a much more complicated resolve due to the fact that a number of CW powers are not benefiting from armor pen. once they fix that, they will need to adjust accordingly.
any balancing that occurs needs to be tested thoroughly internally before they even bring it to the preview shard.
not to mention they are also diligently working to release a new module which limits the focus.
Split shot is an at-will dearie. 10k per hit? I don't think so. Not unless you have a perfect vorp and over 6k power stacked.
Now I, even as an HR player fully agree split shot needed toned down, but not by 45%. It needed a nice 25% percent reduction in damage and no more. The buffs to the encounters they have put in are nice, but in no way, let me repeat this, they in no way make up for that loss of dps from the split shot shot nerf. Now if you compare an HR to a TR and GWF (destroyer path) as they all three are currently on preview then yea, they're all fairly in line with each other. But I'll echo what others have stated. It is a travesty of game developing to have the dps classes even out like this, but leave CW in the OP state it's in. I can understand if they're looking to fix the ARP issue on certain CW powers before a balance pass because when that issue is fixed CW's will be be doing even more DPS. So it makes sense for that balance pass to happen after a fix. I have a 13k GS thaum CW, I know exactly how OP in PVE we are. That said the dev team should have fixed CW's along with HR's and GWF's in this mod. It's simply unprofessional to not do this with the others.
split shot is a daily that can crit up to 10k per hit (probably more with vorpal) and it is the go-to power for all HRs because it is effective. too effective. there is no other class that has an AoE daily with such power. the devs are balancing the reduction of split shot with adjusted encounter powers.
of course, when one class gets changed, defenders of the class want to point out how unfair that is by attacking other classes. but the devs have already stated that all classes are being looked at including the CW which is a much more complicated resolve due to the fact that a number of CW powers are not benefiting from armor pen. once they fix that, they will need to adjust accordingly.
any balancing that occurs needs to be tested thoroughly internally before they even bring it to the preview shard.
not to mention they are also diligently working to release a new module which limits the focus.
This would make more sense if the encounters (save maybe rain which is hard to land effectively) were not so laughably low-damage. Which, honestly will stack up if you build a lot of recovery and use stormstep/ disrupting except that they are neutering that combo as well. I know there is a new modual coming and all our CW alts will be playing it. Well, not mine, I refuse to play easy mode.
LOL did he just say daily? He just lost ALL credibility. lmafo
And 10k per hit, not with a vorpal. No. No I dont think so. I play a HR and I fight against split shot spamming HR's and I know it does not hit that much.
My Aimed Shot hits around that on a crit.
I am agaisnt the split shot spamming, and I dont even use split shot anymore. (stopped using it when I got my hunter to level 30 or so). I agree it needed a tone down. But not anywhere near 45%. And not to mention, this skill was toned down already before before release.
45% is way too much. Especially for a class whose sole damage comes prodominately from thier at-will attacks, and even more so when they are cutting down the few capability of HR's to do burst damage that they already have.
Also, since got on the subject of dailies. HR's dailies are weeeak. they are not very damaging at all. Interrupting shot, same damage as hindering shot. First daily you start with, slightly higher damage than your encounters and I mean very slight. Cold Steel Hurricane...oooooooooooooh god. I wont even start on that. Picture Icy terrain but it moves across the field veery slowly, and its a daily, not an encounter and there you go. We have literally only about 3 useful daily skills. (I wouldnt even call our first daily useful really, but it has some applications) and none of them out damage our encounters which arent even damaging really.
Nah you can get about 10K on a crit, but I stack a lot of power. Which might be abusive except for the fact that HR encounters crit for 4-6k. So despite the 'daily' gaff this change could only be 'balanced' if they doubled the damage on encounters and dropped the StormStep nerf. But they are'nt looking at that. Just Mod3.
I also think at the end of the day, these are the at-wills. and you can only use 2. So if we look, we have RS, SS, AS and ES. So typically you will see people use AS/SS, RS/SS, RS/AS, etc. No one is really using ES on purpose. So if only have 2 choices and need a big hit single target and mass target DD.. you will end up picking SS/AS. And if AS gets interrupted when the wind blows, your only choice is to use split shot. HR's tend to not spam it much anymore that I see, I think people have learned to focus it more often, which takes time.
I think the real problem is that AS gets interrupted too easily and RS/ES kind of lack the damage for single target. So you just use what is the best. The nerf will happen and its the wrong move but easier than spending the time to correct why people fall into the demographic of using split shot.
And it is an At-Will.. if i was playing DnD and its free to use, why wouldnt I use something without a cooldown. especially when other things are on cooldown. Fun to be punished for playing the game as intended.
Nah you can get about 10K on a crit, but I stack a lot of power. Which might be abusive except for the fact that HR encounters crit for 4-6k. So despite the 'daily' gaff this change could only be 'balanced' if they doubled the damage on encounters and dropped the StormStep nerf. But they are'nt looking at that. Just Mod3.
8-10k on split shot, 20+k on aimed. I am a little surprised they dont nerf aimed really. Forest ghost+aimed will remove more than half the health of anything that is not a GF in block. GWFs hate being aim-shotted then marauders rushed and fox shifted to death. So ya you can aimed shot then split shot the same gwf for an easy kill but where is the sport in that? I can see why one of these powerful encounters is being nerfed.
Ok forgot Fox whioch is also an encounter with not-pitiful damage. Of course Mod3 changes that too. Not as impressed with Aimed as others here. I mean I use it but it has a distinctive sound, a long animation, and is easily interuptable. I use it but it only works because some people are stupid/ not paying attention. Not denying that HRs can be outright abusive in PVP. Just arguing that the nerf takes them from struggling to useless in PVE.
any balancing that occurs needs to be tested thoroughly internally before they even bring it to the preview shard.
Honestly, the fact that you can say that with a straight face makes it hard for me to you seriously.
For one thing you **** well know that its complete BS. Cryptic clearly does not test changes "thoroughly" before bringing them to the preview shard and sometimes they just totally skip the preview shard and go straight to live. For Example, the pre mod 1 GWF unstoppable "fix" which so thoroughly broke the class that they became virtually unplayable until they fixed their "fix". And if they so thoroughly tested their "balancing", Why are TR's and GWFs getting more balancing? Shouldnt they be fine? you know since they were so "thoroughly" tested before being brought to the preview shard for mod 2? And then of course after the testing on the preview there should be absolutely no reason for them to go live with any more need for balancing.
split shot is a daily that can crit up to 10k per hit (probably more with vorpal) and it is the go-to power for all HRs because it is effective. too effective. there is no other class that has an AoE daily with such power. the devs are balancing the reduction of split shot with adjusted encounter powers.
As other have pointed out, split shot is an at-will not a daily but that's a simple mistake and I wont bust you too much for it. But that being said, yes, it can "Crit" up to 10k per hit but again you're talking about a crit, not normal damage. Also you will need a vorpal to make that happen. But none the less I'll give you that. The problem is/was that while it may be a OP damaging at-will it perfectly balanced the fact that HR's had no other high damage skills, period. I can do 30k crit encounters with my GWF but nothing even close to that with any HR encounter or even daily skills.
And the devs are now adjusting HR encounters only because of the massive complaints the players gave them after they announced the nerf to split shot. Prior to that it was just the nerfs and nothing else so don't come here and act like the devs had this all planned out. And even with the adjustments, a 45% reduction is still way too much 20%, 25% tops is all that's needed.
of course, when one class gets changed, defenders of the class want to point out how unfair that is by attacking other classes. but the devs have already stated that all classes are being looked at including the CW which is a much more complicated resolve due to the fact that a number of CW powers are not benefiting from armor pen. once they fix that, they will need to adjust accordingly.
CW are much more complicated my ***. Players have been complaining about CWs since mod 1 and nothings ever been done except for tiny hardly noticeable nerfs. And are you really going to sit there and tell us that after all this time the devs still cant figure out how to add AP to the skills? So the CWs remain virtually unchanged for like 6 months while every other class continues to suffer nerfs or in some cases just being left useless. And you wonder why players point out how unfair the nerfs are to their favorite class when another known OP class continues to go untouched. You're **** right they're going to attack that class, do you know of any other class that players try to bring 2 or 3 of on epic dungeon runs?
Buffs that would balance out this nerf:
I'd like to point out that while split shot had OP damage for an AOE skill, HRs weren't as OP as that would imply due to the 5-target limit on split shot, which meant that when a huge number of mobs were pulled in a dungeon, split shot still did far less dps than some CW skills with a higher target limit.
In massive AOE situations, if the 5-target limit was removed (or increased to say 15), split shot with a 45% damage nerf would still deal better damage than it does now. For lower enemy counts it's a good thing that split shot spam will not be the best way to go.
We'd need an equally good buff to our single damage abilities though - I'd double the damage of rapid shot. The result will be that hunters-rangers will be very good single target snipers, and instead of spamming split shot to kill entire groups will need to choose who dies first, making a strategic decision, which is always a good thing.
Yes, doubling rapidshot damage is alot but 1) it was underpowered to begin with and 2) hunters need to have really good damage to be as useful as gwfs that have good damage and can tank, or cws that have good damage and control abilities. Every class needs a skill so good it makes you want to play it... split shot was this skill for us, let it be rapidshot next. Not all classes should have encounter skills as the main source of damage.
I'd also give Aimed shot a damage boost. The long windup and risk of interruption needs to be better rewarded (especially if rapidshot is buffed, aimed shot needs to stay better). For pvp, I'd remove the sound effect - really too much for a hidden sniper to broadcast to all his enemies: "I AM PREPPING TO SHOOT YOU IN 1.5 SECONDS". A sound effect for the shot itself would be fine though.
Encounters that need buffing: Hawk Shot has embarrassingly low damage for a skill with a cooldown, a damage reduction to closer targets and a windup. Double it! Also increase its range by 40' - let us have 1 way to hit really far targets.
Hindering shot's weak roots are too weak. Double the slowing effect.
Rain of Arrows has a very small area of effect, give us a larger circle.
Buffs that would balance out this nerf:
I'd like to point out that while split shot had OP damage for an AOE skill, HRs weren't as OP as that would imply due to the 5-target limit on split shot, which meant that when a huge number of mobs were pulled in a dungeon, split shot still did far less dps than some CW skills with a higher target limit.
In massive AOE situations, if the 5-target limit was removed (or increased to say 15), split shot with a 45% damage nerf would still deal better damage than it does now. For lower enemy counts it's a good thing that split shot spam will not be the best way to go.
We'd need an equally good buff to our single damage abilities though - I'd double the damage of rapid shot. The result will be that hunters-rangers will be very good single target snipers, and instead of spamming split shot to kill entire groups will need to choose who dies first, making a strategic decision, which is always a good thing.
Yes, doubling rapidshot damage is alot but 1) it was underpowered to begin with and 2) hunters need to have really good damage to be as useful as gwfs that have good damage and can tank, or cws that have good damage and control abilities. Every class needs a skill so good it makes you want to play it... split shot was this skill for us, let it be rapidshot next. Not all classes should have encounter skills as the main source of damage.
I'd also give Aimed shot a damage boost. The long windup and risk of interruption needs to be better rewarded (especially if rapidshot is buffed, aimed shot needs to stay better). For pvp, I'd remove the sound effect - really too much for a hidden sniper to broadcast to all his enemies: "I AM PREPPING TO SHOOT YOU IN 1.5 SECONDS". A sound effect for the shot itself would be fine though.
Encounters that need buffing: Hawk Shot has embarrassingly low damage for a skill with a cooldown, a damage reduction to closer targets and a windup. Double it! Also increase its range by 40' - let us have 1 way to hit really far targets.
Hindering shot's weak roots are too weak. Double the slowing effect.
Rain of Arrows has a very small area of effect, give us a larger circle.
Split the sky could use a damage increase.
No i think Aimed shot is perfect the way it is. It already hits pretty hard. And the sound effect is the only thing that gives you time to notice and interrupt whoever is sniping you.
I agree especially with hindering shots weak roots. I think it needs to be a bit between weak and strong roots. It effectively does much of anything really now. If rain of arrows will keep that small aoe field, then I feel the damage needs to be increased, or the damage stay the same and widen its area.
Ok forgot Fox whioch is also an encounter with not-pitiful damage. Of course Mod3 changes that too. Not as impressed with Aimed as others here. I mean I use it but it has a distinctive sound, a long animation, and is easily interuptable. I use it but it only works because some people are stupid/ not paying attention. Not denying that HRs can be outright abusive in PVP. Just arguing that the nerf takes them from struggling to useless in PVE.
I am not so sure they are useless in pve. I use rapid shot in any boss fight in pve because I am not trying to aggro the entire mob. I noticed you can pretty much aimed shot/rapid shot the boss to great effect drawing almost no aggro, while using the rest of your rangers abilities as party buffs and interrupts.
Not saying 45% nerf to split shot is entirely justified without an equal buff to other powers, but some nerf of that power in order to provide more parity amongst all the rangers abilities is a good call imo.
Aimed shot is great not for standing in the open and trying to hit anything, but for hugging a wall or finding a shady cut and sniping. Like a target that is fairly far away and just barely in your line of sight and moving more into the open as aimed shot is being cast (say an enemy gwf chasing a cw off node 2 in rivenscar). Not to even mention forest ghost first.
The split shot nerf makes perfect sense to me because it allowed them to increase the other skills power, I mean split shot fully charged did as much damage as a 9 sec cooldown cw encounter chillstrike on mastery meaning we could do that spells damage to the same number of targets in 3 seconds almost instantly pretty much any time we wanted robbing other skills of usefulness.
I called it a day after nerf was announced a while ago that they were going to increase the damage of the other abilities which i think they have. Its not perfect but it will be someday if not this month; than later this year, if not later this year than next. We just gotta be patient mmos are hardly ever perfectly balanced 1st or even 2nd year.
Regardless of how long it takes the game will still be here so long as we players are and balance - TRUE balance takes time, sometimes even years. Its up to all of us to make this game work its not just the devs they made the world just so we can just live or visit there. But difference is we actually can make things better; maybe not directly, but indirectly everything can be aided by us just through feedback and testing crying helps no-one and certainly not the HR.
not saying this to anyone in particular and i wont bother fighting anyone over this this is based on my gamer experience and nothing else.
The split shot nerf makes perfect sense to me because it allowed them to increase the other skills power, I mean split shot fully charged did as much damage as a 9 sec cooldown cw encounter chillstrike on mastery meaning we could do that spells damage to the same number of targets in 3 seconds almost instantly pretty much any time we wanted robbing other skills of usefulness.
I called it a day after nerf was announced a while ago that they were going to increase the damage of the other abilities which i think they have. Its not perfect but it will be someday if not this month; than later this year, if not later this year than next. We just gotta be patient mmos are hardly ever perfectly balanced 1st or even 2nd year.
Regardless of how long it takes the game will still be here so long as we players are and balance - TRUE balance takes time, sometimes even years. Its up to all of us to make this game work its not just the devs they made the world just so we can just live or visit there. But difference is we actually can make things better; maybe not directly, but indirectly everything can be aided by us just through feedback and testing crying helps no-one and certainly not the HR.
not saying this to anyone in particular and i wont bother fighting anyone over this this is based on my gamer experience and nothing else.
This is a great attitude, and I would not be so ra-ra cryptic where the nerf is concerned if I didnt feel that the devs are truly trying to balance the class within its self and not relative to the other classes. I got so mad at the "gwf nerf" prior to the pvp patch that it was one reason I rolled an HR. So I started playing my HR and fell in love with the class. Went back to the gwf and it is still as OP vs generally pvp-challenged players as it always was, but is not near as fun as HR imo. People have GWF's figured out. HR you can change up so much that I dont think there is a real solution yet to the class. The sheer diversity of abilities of the HR vs that of the GWF shows, to me anyways, that the game is progressing, the devs are learning, the classes are getting more interesting and less button mashy. Good deal.
This is a great attitude, and I would not be so ra-ra cryptic where the nerf is concerned if I didnt feel that the devs are truly trying to balance the class within its self and not relative to the other classes. I got so mad at the "gwf nerf" prior to the pvp patch that it was one reason I rolled an HR. So I started playing my HR and fell in love with the class. Went back to the gwf and it is still as OP vs generally pvp-challenged players as it always was, but is not near as fun as HR imo. People have GWF's figured out. HR you can change up so much that I dont think there is a real solution yet to the class. The sheer diversity of abilities of the HR vs that of the GWF shows, to me anyways, that the game is progressing, the devs are learning, the classes are getting more interesting and less button mashy. Good deal.
Agreed.
I wouldnt be so ra ra either if i didnt know better. The state of the game has improved exponentially i know this because ive been here so long. Its the fact that many players like thier game to stay the same that it seems like things are going down hill. Trust me they wouldnt put this much effort into a game they were just gonna outright destroy. It's just pumping out all these updates and new contents at the rate that they have been has made it harder and take longer to balance the game, but without content theres nothing to balance is the way i see it.
Plus cryptic is running like 6 or more mmos at the same time not like they have 200 people working on neverwinter.
every time theres something new or changed people are gonna have a problem with it but the great thing is; is that we can let the devs know our displeasure at it; but we need to be reasonable with the things we say which is what most mods will say anyway.
And i love the hr its my favorite class hands down i have 1 or two of each class never really cared which was most op because im good with all of them but i have 3 rangers no other class in my roster has three of em.
It's so much fun using any of the builds for it that we can come up with because it makes the ranger playstyle actually unique depending on the build really no other class can say that. Nerf or no I'm going to play it and there's no one whos gonna stop me lol because i dont see them as nerfs i see them as adjustments.
Comments
This is besides the point. Having to respec and change PvE playstyle because PvP players moaning about PvP imbalance (which they are ALWAYS going to do anyway) is just bologna.
Say all you want about changing and adapting, this is not the way to go about class balance.
And everyone knows the class that really needs a whack with the nerf hammer, HR ain't it.
Also I don't think you have a right to tell people to 'stop crying'. You don't have to read or certainly need not reply to any posts made here. Players voicing legitimate concerns are they only way changes are (or not) made.
The Split Shot nerf didn't have a whole lot to do with PvP I don't think. Fox Shift probably did.
Split Shot was overperforming the most in PvE, and while a 45% nerf is staggeringly huge it's not as bad of a nerf (25%) for Archery who are the most likely to use it anyway. With the other buffs and changes it's a lot more tolerable, even if it's mostly single target buffs. Now Combat has their own At-Will (Clear the Ground), although Nature is still broken even with Pathfinder.
I'm guessing Nature is going to go the way of Oppressor and Instigator, where no one plays it outside of maybe PvP or not at all. The 'buffs' to Oaken Skin are pretty much worthless; Pathfinder's Satchel heal is so much better that you don't seem to really need Oak Skin to back it up since it's not a viable primary healer either way.
If you were already in love with Nature, Pathfinder does make it better for what it's worth.
I don't know if this is your first MMO or not, but change is the very nature of class balance. Adaptation is something that is common across this entire genre.
As for the pvpers whining, I'm not going to disagree that they do. However, think of it this way: If there were a skill to one-shot anything and make you invincible, it would be used, PvE and PvP both. Now those using it in PvE will be able to complete dungeons more easily, and eventually word would get out, making the majority of players start using it. This would basically ruin the content, turning the game into "easy mode."
If that same ability is used in PvP, people are going to start raging on the forums, and raising absolute hell over it. It is probably going to be visible to the development team more quickly, and patched out through balances.
I know that's an extreme example, but it truly takes perspectives from both sides of the coin to achieve a true balance. (Balance is harder than most people think. There isn't a game that has been able to get it perfect. Every balance pass bring out some new alpha class/ability... even if EVERYTHING got nerfed, the players will still figure out what's best of what's left._
Read my post again: I KNEW someone would bring in the 'change is part of any MMO' argument. To which I brought up two points; HRs are NOT the class that needs a nerf, I think we all know which class I refer to. Also, tweaking class abilities from a PvP standpoint without consideration to PvE is not the proper way to pursue balance.
Split Shot is fine the way it is. No change to it is needed, it is not a factor creating a huge imbalance in the game. 45% is too large a hit. The change feels more like response to PvP player complaints and/or 'herding' players to another class. Either reason is frankly disgusting in my view and unfair to HR players who use the ability as a part of their build.
By no means am I disputing the CW/GWF as currently overpowered. The GWF changes on Preview are going to help a lot with that. The dev statement about CWs being "complicated" is their excuse/reason why CW changes aren't happening at the moment.
As to pvpers complaining about split shot, I just don't see that happening with the current meta. HR's mobility is the one thing cryptic absolutely got right, and that's the biggest complaint I've heard.
Maybe split shot IS opd to a degree, but talking about perfect vorpals and stuff like that doesnt make sense anyway bcs not everyone can afford that to begin with. So then what, HR is being relegated to a class that wont be good if you dont have a perfect vorpal? Relegated to be a support class that wont be able to do anything by itself, not even getting rid of someone who comes after them? About Fox I'll just repeat myself: Anyone who used HR knows that Fox Shift has to be used only on ONE target. Why? Bcs if you use Fox shift on more than one target the dmg is going to be split to ridiculously low amounts between them. The more targets you hit, the less dmg you will do to your main target. Its only good if you only have ONE target bcs it will concentrate all the dmg on it, so now if u cant hit the same target more than once...what then? What will you hit it with? I'd like to point out that we are talking about the ONLY good melee encounter HR has. There is no other, all the other encounters on melee form suck, so once the nerf comes in game there is nothing else to do but respec and forget about close combat. To me its not acceptable.
So after respec, what's next?? Archery build is rendered useless with such a severe nerf on the only at will that truly does dmg. Cant talk about rapid shot, it sucks, cant talk about electric bcs it sucks as well. You can just go in and run like a sissie around , kiting the attention you get for dropping AoEs that barely even do any dmg if thats what youre into. Since you cant rely on fox anymore to dmg the TR or GWF who comes to you......theres nothing else for it, run around and wait for someone to come rescue you, the weak one. So Nature build maybe? Its something that's just there but you try to ignore bcs its not good for anything.
Everyone agrees on the OPdness of SS, but 40% is simply too much. They are not giving HR users any option but delete HR and reroll to CW...which is already happening mind you. That, or quit playing this and head elsewere, which is already happening as well.
Devs need to rethink this, split shot nerf is too severe. Fox's is uncalled for and too severe as well. Class will be dead after this. Consider the fact that it is only *the most* played class since Mod 2 release.-
I pretty much stopped reading right here when I realized you were talking about PvP. Sorry.
This. Point is I can see that they are balancing for PVP but the outcome is that they get neutered for PVP. I likely spam splitshot less than many other HRs by building an effective encounter cycle. Which will no longer work when they nerf StormStep. And honestly none of this is why HRs are OP in PVP. It's the synergy of lone wolf and tenacity that turns it into a striker that is tanky as all hell.
It says its about pvp like...within the first sentence...lol why do you reply at all then? And just so you know what affects the class on PvP will affect it as well for PvE. If you believe the dmg values go different on PvP from PvE you are sorely mistaken.-
Also id like to point out that in a way every class is OPd for that matter. CW is OPd with the amount of CC, low time on CC cooldowns and ridiculously high dmg output they have. GWF..theres noone who can say hes never run into a GWF that seems to be impossible to kill while killing targets with relative ease. TR and the abuse of stealth. What i dont get is what is bothering people so much about HR. In pvp i get killed fast and easy if im focused by 2 or more with around my same gear score if i dont make a run for it, just like any other class.
Nerfing the classes is not the answer bcs they are just further breaking balance. What they need to fix is the queue that throws lvl 60 players with 8K gs against 12 or 15Ks in pvp. In this scenario ANY class will look OPd and tanky and impossible to kill.-
For me, HR's are harassers in PVP. Sniping and dodging, laying down traps (the tower), not letting the enemy get away with a sliver of HP and making it hard for an enemy to fight someone on your team directly in one place without that fight being high risk. Then when targeted, you use that mobility to kiting all over the place, maybe taking a hit or two but staying mobile so your enemy gets fixed on trying to get you while your teammates take them out. HR shouldn't be fighting the same way direct way a GWF does, for example. Even when I do 1 on 1 in PVP, I stay very mobile, keeping my enemy in the circle of my tower and applying grasping roots and chipping them down with my single shot. They don't usually last long.
The buffs being done are going to MORE than make up for the nerf of split shot. And overall I think it's going to be great for the class because it will hopefully weed out the bad players who would be better suited on a more straightforward class, and make HR have actual value in dungeons because the rest of the group can have more confidence the person playing knows what they're doing.
I think it really does come down to people just not knowing how to play the class and effectively use the skills. I've gone toe to toe with a full HP CW in PVP starting with less HP myself, and won more than once just by staying mobile and using my skills tactically. And there is absolutely no reason why an HR who knows how to play and build their stuff cannot solo any PVE (with the exception of dungeons) - I'm kind of shocked someone's struggling with Sharandar mobs. The fault is definitely NOT with the class in that case.
Not every class suits every player, I can't actually get into the groove with CW at all, and I'm finding DC an interesting challenge to learn how to play usefully and well. This is exactly how it SHOULD be. Games in which all players can play all classes equally well are boring and unbalanced.
CW is certainly OP in general however. I personally think the issue is that there's such low cool down between their nuke powers. If they increased those to be maybe 3 - 5 seconds higher than they are right now it could really help make CW's play more strategically and make them less of an avalanche of destruction. But I'm not a CW expert, so I could well be wrong.
Oh, draw aggro you say? So that you can 'tank' them? What you refer to is the very thing most people hate the absolute most about HR in PvE content...amusingly since HR gets no aggro increasing skills you would need to realize that Split Shot 'draws aggro' with pure damage. Think about that a second.
You'll be #1 with that style, but you'll probably be kicked a lot for being a jacktard too. At least I would kick you, and I generally like HR's. (And this assumes there isn't a competent CW or GWF, which would smoke you in PvE if you weren't spreading the add's all over the place.)
If you look at the dates on some of these posts you'll find that many of them were made before the 'buffs' to HR were announced, which was during the short window of time where Cryptic was doing nothing other than the 45% nerf to Split Shot. So keep that in mind sparky.
Uhh...so you can beat the weakest PvP class. Cute.
You are. CW are not OP at all in PvP if you bothered to read any posts in the CW forums on this very topic. PvE is a totally different story.
I'm against the nerf and have stated it multiple times. Changed the way Aimed shot works and give it a chance to interrupt instead of always being interrupted and personally I would rather see electric shot have a cone effect and a chance to stun (even with a damage increase, its basically a slower rapid shot that has aoe sometimes if another mob or player is right next to it.
I know there are better ideas than mine and my general point is that it could probably be fixed by changing a few mechanics on the at-wills that are not very effective.
No you misunderstand me, sorry if I didn't explain well enough. I don't draw aggro to tank, but to take pressure off a player who's got aggro they don't need to be handling, like when a DC gets mobbed. I can quickly pull aggro with split shot as I am more mobile and can take a little damage while the GF or GWF takes over the tanking (if they're wrapped up with a mob and are a little slower to disengage to take the aggro from the others back) and then I can go back to sniping.
I haven't yet been kicked from any party... and actually have been thanked a few times. So my heavy support style can't be that bad. I'm sure if I play with you some time you will point out the errors of my ways swiftly.
I did notice the date spread through this thread, but here we are after the other buffs have been announced and people are still complaining about the split shot nerf. Does patronizing me about that change the fact people are STILL complaining, even after the buffs were announced?
I don't read the CW forums because I don't play CWs and haven't had a reason to look at those forums yet. But I know most players of OP classes don't complain that their class is OP lol in fact they will often complain they're not OP enough. I do play quite a lot of PVP however and in my experience (which isn't the same as everyone's of course), I hear people *****ing a LOT if there's CW's in the opposing team because of the amount of nuking and immobilizing they can do at range. So that's what I'm basing my comments on about that. Again, I kind of don't care because I don't play CW's and they aren't any more of a challenge to me than any other class in PVP. But I have heard others complain.
What you describe isn't 'support', it's 'DPS' plain and simple. I only misunderstand what you're describing because you keep reinforcing the idea that you're 'tanking' even when you correct me to state that you aren't doing it to tank. 'Support' is providing buffs/debuffs/healing/tanking, which are all technically present in HR even if all of the buff/debuff/healing/tanking HR has is of questionable use. (Heal does less than regen or lifesteal on their own, mitigation buffs that fall off due to DoT, mitigation buff's that only last for one hit, no reliable debuff/CC, many powers deaggro, deflect buffs bad at sustained mitigation)
Just thought I'd let you know that people don't much appreciate being forced to chase add's because of your 'helping'; but maybe you're smart about it. After all I don't know you, perhaps you're one of the few that actually use Marauder's Escape/Forest Ghost for aggro purposes. It can be done well, I will admit that much, but I think what you're describing is just the standard 'oops I did too much damage now I have aggro' rather than 'Hey I meant to do that, I'm a tank!'
I don't take anything personally, I just get annoyed when I see people extolling the virtues of a play style that I know full well most players intensely dislike, myself included, for a variety of reasons you may or may not have thought of. If your premade likes it, that's all that matters though.
EDIT:
You should probably separate your PvE and PvP commentary too, it makes it really difficult to know what you are actually talking about.
split shot is a daily that can crit up to 10k per hit (probably more with vorpal) and it is the go-to power for all HRs because it is effective. too effective. there is no other class that has an AoE daily with such power. the devs are balancing the reduction of split shot with adjusted encounter powers.
of course, when one class gets changed, defenders of the class want to point out how unfair that is by attacking other classes. but the devs have already stated that all classes are being looked at including the CW which is a much more complicated resolve due to the fact that a number of CW powers are not benefiting from armor pen. once they fix that, they will need to adjust accordingly.
any balancing that occurs needs to be tested thoroughly internally before they even bring it to the preview shard.
not to mention they are also diligently working to release a new module which limits the focus.
Split shot is an at-will dearie. 10k per hit? I don't think so. Not unless you have a perfect vorp and over 6k power stacked.
Now I, even as an HR player fully agree split shot needed toned down, but not by 45%. It needed a nice 25% percent reduction in damage and no more. The buffs to the encounters they have put in are nice, but in no way, let me repeat this, they in no way make up for that loss of dps from the split shot shot nerf. Now if you compare an HR to a TR and GWF (destroyer path) as they all three are currently on preview then yea, they're all fairly in line with each other. But I'll echo what others have stated. It is a travesty of game developing to have the dps classes even out like this, but leave CW in the OP state it's in. I can understand if they're looking to fix the ARP issue on certain CW powers before a balance pass because when that issue is fixed CW's will be be doing even more DPS. So it makes sense for that balance pass to happen after a fix. I have a 13k GS thaum CW, I know exactly how OP in PVE we are. That said the dev team should have fixed CW's along with HR's and GWF's in this mod. It's simply unprofessional to not do this with the others.
This would make more sense if the encounters (save maybe rain which is hard to land effectively) were not so laughably low-damage. Which, honestly will stack up if you build a lot of recovery and use stormstep/ disrupting except that they are neutering that combo as well. I know there is a new modual coming and all our CW alts will be playing it. Well, not mine, I refuse to play easy mode.
And 10k per hit, not with a vorpal. No. No I dont think so. I play a HR and I fight against split shot spamming HR's and I know it does not hit that much.
My Aimed Shot hits around that on a crit.
I am agaisnt the split shot spamming, and I dont even use split shot anymore. (stopped using it when I got my hunter to level 30 or so). I agree it needed a tone down. But not anywhere near 45%. And not to mention, this skill was toned down already before before release.
45% is way too much. Especially for a class whose sole damage comes prodominately from thier at-will attacks, and even more so when they are cutting down the few capability of HR's to do burst damage that they already have.
Also, since got on the subject of dailies. HR's dailies are weeeak. they are not very damaging at all. Interrupting shot, same damage as hindering shot. First daily you start with, slightly higher damage than your encounters and I mean very slight. Cold Steel Hurricane...oooooooooooooh god. I wont even start on that. Picture Icy terrain but it moves across the field veery slowly, and its a daily, not an encounter and there you go. We have literally only about 3 useful daily skills. (I wouldnt even call our first daily useful really, but it has some applications) and none of them out damage our encounters which arent even damaging really.
I think the real problem is that AS gets interrupted too easily and RS/ES kind of lack the damage for single target. So you just use what is the best. The nerf will happen and its the wrong move but easier than spending the time to correct why people fall into the demographic of using split shot.
And it is an At-Will.. if i was playing DnD and its free to use, why wouldnt I use something without a cooldown. especially when other things are on cooldown. Fun to be punished for playing the game as intended.
8-10k on split shot, 20+k on aimed. I am a little surprised they dont nerf aimed really. Forest ghost+aimed will remove more than half the health of anything that is not a GF in block. GWFs hate being aim-shotted then marauders rushed and fox shifted to death. So ya you can aimed shot then split shot the same gwf for an easy kill but where is the sport in that? I can see why one of these powerful encounters is being nerfed.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Honestly, the fact that you can say that with a straight face makes it hard for me to you seriously.
For one thing you **** well know that its complete BS. Cryptic clearly does not test changes "thoroughly" before bringing them to the preview shard and sometimes they just totally skip the preview shard and go straight to live. For Example, the pre mod 1 GWF unstoppable "fix" which so thoroughly broke the class that they became virtually unplayable until they fixed their "fix". And if they so thoroughly tested their "balancing", Why are TR's and GWFs getting more balancing? Shouldnt they be fine? you know since they were so "thoroughly" tested before being brought to the preview shard for mod 2? And then of course after the testing on the preview there should be absolutely no reason for them to go live with any more need for balancing.
Now lets look at what other BS you tell us.
As other have pointed out, split shot is an at-will not a daily but that's a simple mistake and I wont bust you too much for it. But that being said, yes, it can "Crit" up to 10k per hit but again you're talking about a crit, not normal damage. Also you will need a vorpal to make that happen. But none the less I'll give you that. The problem is/was that while it may be a OP damaging at-will it perfectly balanced the fact that HR's had no other high damage skills, period. I can do 30k crit encounters with my GWF but nothing even close to that with any HR encounter or even daily skills.
And the devs are now adjusting HR encounters only because of the massive complaints the players gave them after they announced the nerf to split shot. Prior to that it was just the nerfs and nothing else so don't come here and act like the devs had this all planned out. And even with the adjustments, a 45% reduction is still way too much 20%, 25% tops is all that's needed.
CW are much more complicated my ***. Players have been complaining about CWs since mod 1 and nothings ever been done except for tiny hardly noticeable nerfs. And are you really going to sit there and tell us that after all this time the devs still cant figure out how to add AP to the skills? So the CWs remain virtually unchanged for like 6 months while every other class continues to suffer nerfs or in some cases just being left useless. And you wonder why players point out how unfair the nerfs are to their favorite class when another known OP class continues to go untouched. You're **** right they're going to attack that class, do you know of any other class that players try to bring 2 or 3 of on epic dungeon runs?
But they can still bother to mess with every other class except for CW....again.
I'd like to point out that while split shot had OP damage for an AOE skill, HRs weren't as OP as that would imply due to the 5-target limit on split shot, which meant that when a huge number of mobs were pulled in a dungeon, split shot still did far less dps than some CW skills with a higher target limit.
In massive AOE situations, if the 5-target limit was removed (or increased to say 15), split shot with a 45% damage nerf would still deal better damage than it does now. For lower enemy counts it's a good thing that split shot spam will not be the best way to go.
We'd need an equally good buff to our single damage abilities though - I'd double the damage of rapid shot. The result will be that hunters-rangers will be very good single target snipers, and instead of spamming split shot to kill entire groups will need to choose who dies first, making a strategic decision, which is always a good thing.
Yes, doubling rapidshot damage is alot but 1) it was underpowered to begin with and 2) hunters need to have really good damage to be as useful as gwfs that have good damage and can tank, or cws that have good damage and control abilities. Every class needs a skill so good it makes you want to play it... split shot was this skill for us, let it be rapidshot next. Not all classes should have encounter skills as the main source of damage.
I'd also give Aimed shot a damage boost. The long windup and risk of interruption needs to be better rewarded (especially if rapidshot is buffed, aimed shot needs to stay better). For pvp, I'd remove the sound effect - really too much for a hidden sniper to broadcast to all his enemies: "I AM PREPPING TO SHOOT YOU IN 1.5 SECONDS". A sound effect for the shot itself would be fine though.
Encounters that need buffing:
Hawk Shot has embarrassingly low damage for a skill with a cooldown, a damage reduction to closer targets and a windup. Double it! Also increase its range by 40' - let us have 1 way to hit really far targets.
Hindering shot's weak roots are too weak. Double the slowing effect.
Rain of Arrows has a very small area of effect, give us a larger circle.
Split the sky could use a damage increase.
No i think Aimed shot is perfect the way it is. It already hits pretty hard. And the sound effect is the only thing that gives you time to notice and interrupt whoever is sniping you.
I agree especially with hindering shots weak roots. I think it needs to be a bit between weak and strong roots. It effectively does much of anything really now. If rain of arrows will keep that small aoe field, then I feel the damage needs to be increased, or the damage stay the same and widen its area.
I am not so sure they are useless in pve. I use rapid shot in any boss fight in pve because I am not trying to aggro the entire mob. I noticed you can pretty much aimed shot/rapid shot the boss to great effect drawing almost no aggro, while using the rest of your rangers abilities as party buffs and interrupts.
Not saying 45% nerf to split shot is entirely justified without an equal buff to other powers, but some nerf of that power in order to provide more parity amongst all the rangers abilities is a good call imo.
Aimed shot is great not for standing in the open and trying to hit anything, but for hugging a wall or finding a shady cut and sniping. Like a target that is fairly far away and just barely in your line of sight and moving more into the open as aimed shot is being cast (say an enemy gwf chasing a cw off node 2 in rivenscar). Not to even mention forest ghost first.
Jugger Conq GF
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I called it a day after nerf was announced a while ago that they were going to increase the damage of the other abilities which i think they have. Its not perfect but it will be someday if not this month; than later this year, if not later this year than next. We just gotta be patient mmos are hardly ever perfectly balanced 1st or even 2nd year.
Regardless of how long it takes the game will still be here so long as we players are and balance - TRUE balance takes time, sometimes even years. Its up to all of us to make this game work its not just the devs they made the world just so we can just live or visit there. But difference is we actually can make things better; maybe not directly, but indirectly everything can be aided by us just through feedback and testing crying helps no-one and certainly not the HR.
not saying this to anyone in particular and i wont bother fighting anyone over this this is based on my gamer experience and nothing else.
This is a great attitude, and I would not be so ra-ra cryptic where the nerf is concerned if I didnt feel that the devs are truly trying to balance the class within its self and not relative to the other classes. I got so mad at the "gwf nerf" prior to the pvp patch that it was one reason I rolled an HR. So I started playing my HR and fell in love with the class. Went back to the gwf and it is still as OP vs generally pvp-challenged players as it always was, but is not near as fun as HR imo. People have GWF's figured out. HR you can change up so much that I dont think there is a real solution yet to the class. The sheer diversity of abilities of the HR vs that of the GWF shows, to me anyways, that the game is progressing, the devs are learning, the classes are getting more interesting and less button mashy. Good deal.
Jugger Conq GF
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Agreed.
I wouldnt be so ra ra either if i didnt know better. The state of the game has improved exponentially i know this because ive been here so long. Its the fact that many players like thier game to stay the same that it seems like things are going down hill. Trust me they wouldnt put this much effort into a game they were just gonna outright destroy. It's just pumping out all these updates and new contents at the rate that they have been has made it harder and take longer to balance the game, but without content theres nothing to balance is the way i see it.
Plus cryptic is running like 6 or more mmos at the same time not like they have 200 people working on neverwinter.
every time theres something new or changed people are gonna have a problem with it but the great thing is; is that we can let the devs know our displeasure at it; but we need to be reasonable with the things we say which is what most mods will say anyway.
And i love the hr its my favorite class hands down i have 1 or two of each class never really cared which was most op because im good with all of them but i have 3 rangers no other class in my roster has three of em.
It's so much fun using any of the builds for it that we can come up with because it makes the ranger playstyle actually unique depending on the build really no other class can say that. Nerf or no I'm going to play it and there's no one whos gonna stop me lol because i dont see them as nerfs i see them as adjustments.