At one time this was the case, once you slotted an enchant it was not something you could remove.
Where did you hear that? it used to cost several hundred thousand AD to unslot enchantments before they changed it to the current system but there has never been a point where you couldn't remove them.
At one time this was the case, once you slotted an enchant it was not something you could remove. This was something people did not like so it was changed. I just thank god that it wasn't some crazy AD value to change like it is to change the appearance of something (50+K ad to change an appearance is absurd), I can replenish gold better than I can AD.
If they did AD for swapping enchants good god it would probably be 50 - 100k a pop to do it cause some how the developers think a large number of players have some massive pile of AD to spend.
You've always been able to remove enchants, but before Mod2 it cost AD and could be quite a bit more than you guessed. A lesser enhancement cost about 100k and went up from there. That was the threshold where unslotting made any sense. You could buy rank 6 and 7 enchants for less than it cost to remove them. Thus no one used it and eventually Cryptic replaced it with a gold cost.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
I remember at the time one of my toons had a lesser plague fire and to unslot it, it used to cost more than how much the enchantment cost on the AH. Luckily I kept it and they changed it to gold
2.5G to unslot an enchant from an Epic gear piece is NOT that much. I've deposited thousands into my guilds bank, and still have hundreds left over from leadership. I don't even vendor items any more because it's a waste of time.
You're complaint is rather insignificant. Infact, it would probably cause a quicker gold inflation, though I guess it doesn't really buy much as it is anyway.
i wonder if it would be possible to socket the slot instead of socket the item itself. alternately, removing the cost to unslot considering the number of times it would take to swap between pvp and pve items would be nice. honestly, it is a lot of item maintenance involved.
"Gold is useless. You don't need it for anything."
Well, now you do. That problem was part solved by making it cost gold to remove enchants. Now you can spend that 100 gold on more than just a Enchanted Key for Lockboxes, or potions, or kits.
I agree. We get lots of gold from the leadership profession (maxed), the Tymora enchants, drop from kills, skill nodes, chests. I think it's great to use that gold to remove enchantments (as compared to using AD before they changed to gold). Unless a player is removing 5-8 of his enchantments from one character to transfer to another character on a very regular basis, I don't think it's a big deal. The 2.5 gold cost (for level 60 gear) is also meant to limit the number of transfers. I think it's just a balance issue. If the removals are free, then players will abuse that. One example of abuse is to regularly transfer high rank enchants to their low level toons for PVP purposes, maybe for power leveling or to get achievements or just for thrills. There can be other examples of abuse, I just can't think of any at the moment.
2.5G to unslot an enchant from an Epic gear piece is NOT that much. I've deposited thousands into my guilds bank, and still have hundreds left over from leadership. I don't even vendor items any more because it's a waste of time.
You're complaint is rather insignificant. Infact, it would probably cause a quicker gold inflation, though I guess it doesn't really buy much as it is anyway.
It is a lot for some players.
But again, I like this idea. Make gold more valuable. Have an itemsink for gold so that it is actually worth farming for.
Why are you using coal wards for enchants other than armour/weapon? The weapon one being the one that you'd probably keep since it has a set bonus unless you really do prefer pvp in which case you pay prefer sticking with the pvp one. You can get rank 7s for a pretty cheap price which will allow you to be pretty decent for whichever mode you want to focus least on. Though personally I've even crafted spare soulforged for pvp gear...
I'm questioning the fact that the person I responded to says he can enchant up for less than 100k AD. I assume he also means a weapon and armour enchant as well. If that is the case I do not believe him.
You need Coal wards to make armour enchants and one of those already smashes the 100k budget. As for rank 7s, the cheapest are what, 50/60k? That's not really enchanting yourself for less than 100k. Aren't rank 6s in the 20k range as well, especially radiants?
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I'm questioning the fact that the person I responded to says he can enchant up for less than 100k AD. I assume he also means a weapon and armour enchant as well. If that is the case I do not believe him.
You need Coal wards to make armour enchants and one of those already smashes the 100k budget. As for rank 7s, the cheapest are what, 50/60k? That's not really enchanting yourself for less than 100k. Aren't rank 6s in the 20k range as well, especially radiants?
That was me. My coals were gotten for 7/7 celestial boxes, and I equipped myself for 100K 4 times now, I just don't think that it's necessary to immediately get R10s off the bat. I also have 6 characters all reaping these chests.
A soulforged doesn't need to be higher than lesser for its primary effect. R5s are fine for me, I'm not talking about e-peening and min-maxing - I don't believe that anthing should be easily achieved, it lessens the feeling of accomplishment, if my choice to slot gear costs me gold, then I know that I earned that gold, and I equipped myslef without paying zen and converting it to AD to buy enchants.
I happen to craft all my enchants, I seem to be lucky getting marks, and If I don't have the upgrade marks, i farm for them. I don't feel pressure to always be "top dog" in things, I enjoy the challenge.
I see no problems with the 2.5 gold removal fee, after all, I set myself up on preview and test there before committing to wasting currency.
Rank 6s are 5k-40K (really? who'd pay 40k for a R6 enchant) if you buy on the AH. just because people gouge you on enchants, doesn't mean you have to pay for them.
GS has only a little to do with success in this game, a knowledgeable player doesn't need to start at R7s.
Go to AH. Hit tab for blue gear. Type in 60/60 in each lil box. Hit enter. Buy 50 pieces of lvl 60 blue for 60-80ad each. Sell to merchant. Get gold. Switch enchants. Win. That's a total of about 5 minutes of your time to get enough gold to switch all your enchants back and forth twice. Seriously, this is the last thing devs should even consider spending time on.
That was me. My coals were gotten for 7/7 celestial boxes, and I equipped myself for 100K 4 times now, I just don't think that it's necessary to immediately get R10s off the bat. I also have 6 characters all reaping these chests.
A soulforged doesn't need to be higher than lesser for its primary effect. R5s are fine for me, I'm not talking about e-peening and min-maxing - I don't believe that anthing should be easily achieved, it lessens the feeling of accomplishment, if my choice to slot gear costs me gold, then I know that I earned that gold, and I equipped myslef without paying zen and converting it to AD to buy enchants.
I happen to craft all my enchants, I seem to be lucky getting marks, and If I don't have the upgrade marks, i farm for them. I don't feel pressure to always be "top dog" in things, I enjoy the challenge.
I see no problems with the 2.5 gold removal fee, after all, I set myself up on preview and test there before committing to wasting currency.
Rank 6s are 5k-40K (really? who'd pay 40k for a R6 enchant) if you buy on the AH. just because people gouge you on enchants, doesn't mean you have to pay for them.
GS has only a little to do with success in this game, a knowledgeable player doesn't need to start at R7s.
At the current rate of drops how easily are you getting Coals? I have received 1 between 3 characters since Mod 2.
By going down to R5s then fair enough, 100k is more than enough.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
so the real question remains: is it a huge issue to PvE in PvP gear and vice versa?
Its not. My Destroyer runs with a full Profound armor set and a PVP belt all the time ( tired of moving enchants around ) and I have zero issues in pve. On a VT run last night the only one with better DPS was a full Avatar of War GWF, so there..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
So AD price for removal was bad and now gold price is bad as well? Really?
It is true what one of the CD-Action (gamers magazine in PL) editors said: "cut the price for 50% of the value and there still be people to whine about it being too high"
Rank 6s are 5k-40K (really? who'd pay 40k for a R6 enchant) if you buy on the AH. just because people gouge you on enchants, doesn't mean you have to pay for them.
GS has only a little to do with success in this game, a knowledgeable player doesn't need to start at R7s.
Actually the lowest radiant (most expensive enchant) is 13k which is very good and less than the 25k MoP you need to make one. Rank 7s are also cheap to buy at 30-40k each if you can afford it, especially when you need a 100k gmop to get one (or be lucky and get it from a lockbox). It all depends on your budget really. If you want to be competitive in pvp (there's gonna be a leaderboard) then rank 7s are definitely something to consider as a starting point.
Rank 6s are 5k-40K (really? who'd pay 40k for a R6 enchant) if you buy on the AH. just because people gouge you on enchants, doesn't mean you have to pay for them.
Highest cost on R6 i've seen recently is 20-25k, and it's still cheaper than upgrading it yourself. 25k for a MoP, plus 5k for a preservation ward (you might need more than one, on average), plus the R5 enchant x4, that's 5k more, and you can easily spend more than the AH price by doing it yourself.
Spending gold is better than AD to remove enchantments, if it bothers you so much get another weapon, and if you can afford to get Rank 10's or Perfects in the first place or even spend the time earning them, then hey at least you have something new to work towards! (And you can still use them in said weapons while you upgrade them now, that's a plus too)
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited April 2014
40% chance to upgrade an Enchant? Sounds like a fair tribute to Tymora to take a gamble on it rather than spend the money on a Ward.
Budgeting makes sense.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
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wyckedstudiosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 36Arc User
edited April 2014
I'm sorry, but as the only real gold sink in the game(and not even a very big one at that), this complaint is little more than trolling to me.
On the subject of coal wards from invoking, I have 8 toons invoking every day and have received a grand total of 3 coal wards since Module 2 went live last year.
Roo. Cleric. Mad as a bag of badgers, will heal for beer.
Heh. Maybe it's because I started mmorpgs on a game that if you were killed by another player, you lost everything you had, both on you and in your pack to the player after he looted your corpse, and if you happen to have your keys for things like your boat, house, lockbox/chest on you probably were going to lose alot more, and even if you were killed by spawn, if you did not get back to your body to retrieve your items within a certain time, other players could loot your body, and even if they didn't loot your body and you didn't make it back in time it would disappear, and I paid $10.00 a month for this, I don't think paying a few gold to change enchants back and forth to pvp/pve in a game where there is absolutely no cost associated with losing, in a game that is F2P, a big deal.
BTW even now in that game, if you want to keep an item after being killed in pvp, or by spawn in the case you can't make it back to loot your items from your corpse, you have to insure those items you don't wish to lose.
Honestly I,m starting to think there is nothing in this game people wont whine about.
As a young boy chasing Dragons with your wooden sword so mighty, You're St. George or you're David and you always killed the beast
Times change very quickly And you had to grow up early. A house in smoking ruins and the bodies at your feet ~Iron Maiden
The last thing? It's a time sink that need not exist. The people arguing against me here don't even like to PvP. Typical exclusive PvE players. The ugly truth, they are just as selfish and vicious as the PvP player-base, it just doesn't come out as often because you aren't trying to kill each other in PvE. So get over yourself and realize I'm trying to get it removed because THERE IS NO POINT TO IT.
There is a point to it , Cryptic have a vested interest in forcing players to have to create new enchantments ,it allows them to sell more wards and also contributes to getting AD out of the economy , some players such as yourself will swap enchantments around many others will just bite the bullet and create and work on new enchantments so they don't have to put up with the hassle of swapping about.
Highest cost on R6 i've seen recently is 20-25k, and it's still cheaper than upgrading it yourself. 25k for a MoP, plus 5k for a preservation ward (you might need more than one, on average), plus the R5 enchant x4, that's 5k more, and you can easily spend more than the AH price by doing it yourself.
this is a good point. The prices of enchants are dropping fast, and I will probably end up selling all my marks that have dropped (I am somewhere around 5 purples, 12 blues, 80 greens, maybe not the greens, as they get the event enchants to R5 and then sell them) as the marks are still around the same as from WB (need to check that, though). I've crafted my share, and have enough to equip the new class when it comes out (like 5 of every enchant at R6)
it's almost time to cash in my Zen I sold earlier in the year for a profit, too.
The last thing? It's a time sink that need not exist. The people arguing against me here don't even like to PvP. Typical exclusive PvE players. The ugly truth, they are just as selfish and vicious as the PvP player-base, it just doesn't come out as often because you aren't trying to kill each other in PvE. So get over yourself and realize I'm trying to get it removed because THERE IS NO POINT TO IT.
Oh, so you should only spend your time in PvP, and not have to do anything outside of PvP, but a PvEer must play PvP matches to get their PvP gear to even be able to survive? You understand that you statement is hypocritical, right?
The game needs both PvE and PvP, and you cannot do PvP without a little PvE, and you cannot be exclusively PvE and expect to be competitive in PvP, so if you're all up in arms about having to gutter run in PvE because you're an elitist PvPer and PvE is beneath you, then your compromise should also include PvE players able to buy PvP gear without requiring Glory
PvP has always had all the hallmarks of an afterthought (two maps, one game mode, bonkers scoring system), and an afterthought that seems somewhat ill-advised to boot, since it makes balancing issues exponentially harder. Plus "teaming up with friends to kill a whole bunch of monsters and then a dragon" sounds much more like D&D than....arena-based point-capping 5v5 combat. It's an odd fit, really. I very much doubt the game would survive as a solely PvP experience, whereas it could probably chug along merrily as a PvE only experience. Wouldn't bring in as much money, of course (if you're not PvE-grind-happy, high-end PvP can get silly expensive, which is probably a key point), but general 'game experience'-wise, it's still an odd fit.
Heh. Maybe it's because I started mmorpgs on a game that if you were killed by another player, you lost everything you had, both on you and in your pack to the player after he looted your corpse, and if you happen to have your keys for things like your boat, house, lockbox/chest on you probably were going to lose alot more, and even if you were killed by spawn, if you did not get back to your body to retrieve your items within a certain time, other players could loot your body, and even if they didn't loot your body and you didn't make it back in time it would disappear, and I paid $10.00 a month for this, I don't think paying a few gold to change enchants back and forth to pvp/pve in a game where there is absolutely no cost associated with losing, in a game that is F2P, a big deal.
BTW even now in that game, if you want to keep an item after being killed in pvp, or by spawn in the case you can't make it back to loot your items from your corpse, you have to insure those items you don't wish to lose.
Honestly I,m starting to think there is nothing in this game people wont whine about.
Dead on. FREE, and they still insist. I played those games where you can lose everything, you just knuckled down, and built back up again. Didn't seem like it at the time, but it was part of the fun of overcoming obstacles. You must be old school like me, and I swear we are dying breed.
Of course some of my characters are older than many of the players today!
Oh, so you should only spend your time in PvP, and not have to do anything outside of PvP, but a PvEer must play PvP matches to get their PvP gear to even be able to survive? You understand that you statement is hypocritical, right?
The game needs both PvE and PvP, and you cannot do PvP without a little PvE, and you cannot be exclusively PvE and expect to be competitive in PvP, so if you're all up in arms about having to gutter run in PvE because you're an elitist PvPer and PvE is beneath you, then your compromise should also include PvE players able to buy PvP gear without requiring Glory
These arguments sound like a pure attempt to be nasty towards pvp players and grief them as much as you can. We like pvp, so we should feel punished for that! Awesome mentality.
Now you're just fuelling the opposite argument, if the game needs both pve and pvp then we need my suggestion more than ever, which is a pvp character sheet with the ability to use our enchantments from our pve one, along with dual spec. Now people can enjoy pvp and pve without the need to feel punished for enjoying both aspects of the game. If you're frustrated because some better pvp players kicked your *** badly when you were trying to farm glory then I can't say I feel sorry, pvp is very competitive and gaming skills will make a difference. If you don't like that, there's plenty of pve content and non-pvp artifacts out there...
I'm actually amazed by the amount of effort people will do to make other's game experience/lives miserable. Like, it would hurt the whole pve playerbase if pvp players had easier time enjoying their hobby. LOL.
Heh. Maybe it's because I started mmorpgs on a game that if you were killed by another player, you lost everything you had, both on you and in your pack to the player after he looted your corpse, and if you happen to have your keys for things like your boat, house, lockbox/chest on you probably were going to lose alot more, and even if you were killed by spawn, if you did not get back to your body to retrieve your items within a certain time, other players could loot your body, and even if they didn't loot your body and you didn't make it back in time it would disappear, and I paid $10.00 a month for this, I don't think paying a few gold to change enchants back and forth to pvp/pve in a game where there is absolutely no cost associated with losing, in a game that is F2P, a big deal.
BTW even now in that game, if you want to keep an item after being killed in pvp, or by spawn in the case you can't make it back to loot your items from your corpse, you have to insure those items you don't wish to lose.
Honestly I,m starting to think there is nothing in this game people wont whine about.
I'm surpised this game doesn't have a 1v1 arena yet. You lose, the opponent takes a piece of your loot. You win, vice versa. Maybe this would teach some people something. XD
Comments
Where did you hear that? it used to cost several hundred thousand AD to unslot enchantments before they changed it to the current system but there has never been a point where you couldn't remove them.
You've always been able to remove enchants, but before Mod2 it cost AD and could be quite a bit more than you guessed. A lesser enhancement cost about 100k and went up from there. That was the threshold where unslotting made any sense. You could buy rank 6 and 7 enchants for less than it cost to remove them. Thus no one used it and eventually Cryptic replaced it with a gold cost.
You're complaint is rather insignificant. Infact, it would probably cause a quicker gold inflation, though I guess it doesn't really buy much as it is anyway.
This is a fantastic idea! +1
I agree. We get lots of gold from the leadership profession (maxed), the Tymora enchants, drop from kills, skill nodes, chests. I think it's great to use that gold to remove enchantments (as compared to using AD before they changed to gold). Unless a player is removing 5-8 of his enchantments from one character to transfer to another character on a very regular basis, I don't think it's a big deal. The 2.5 gold cost (for level 60 gear) is also meant to limit the number of transfers. I think it's just a balance issue. If the removals are free, then players will abuse that. One example of abuse is to regularly transfer high rank enchants to their low level toons for PVP purposes, maybe for power leveling or to get achievements or just for thrills. There can be other examples of abuse, I just can't think of any at the moment.
It is a lot for some players.
But again, I like this idea. Make gold more valuable. Have an itemsink for gold so that it is actually worth farming for.
I'm questioning the fact that the person I responded to says he can enchant up for less than 100k AD. I assume he also means a weapon and armour enchant as well. If that is the case I do not believe him.
You need Coal wards to make armour enchants and one of those already smashes the 100k budget. As for rank 7s, the cheapest are what, 50/60k? That's not really enchanting yourself for less than 100k. Aren't rank 6s in the 20k range as well, especially radiants?
That was me. My coals were gotten for 7/7 celestial boxes, and I equipped myself for 100K 4 times now, I just don't think that it's necessary to immediately get R10s off the bat. I also have 6 characters all reaping these chests.
A soulforged doesn't need to be higher than lesser for its primary effect. R5s are fine for me, I'm not talking about e-peening and min-maxing - I don't believe that anthing should be easily achieved, it lessens the feeling of accomplishment, if my choice to slot gear costs me gold, then I know that I earned that gold, and I equipped myslef without paying zen and converting it to AD to buy enchants.
I happen to craft all my enchants, I seem to be lucky getting marks, and If I don't have the upgrade marks, i farm for them. I don't feel pressure to always be "top dog" in things, I enjoy the challenge.
I see no problems with the 2.5 gold removal fee, after all, I set myself up on preview and test there before committing to wasting currency.
Rank 6s are 5k-40K (really? who'd pay 40k for a R6 enchant) if you buy on the AH. just because people gouge you on enchants, doesn't mean you have to pay for them.
GS has only a little to do with success in this game, a knowledgeable player doesn't need to start at R7s.
At the current rate of drops how easily are you getting Coals? I have received 1 between 3 characters since Mod 2.
By going down to R5s then fair enough, 100k is more than enough.
Its not. My Destroyer runs with a full Profound armor set and a PVP belt all the time ( tired of moving enchants around ) and I have zero issues in pve. On a VT run last night the only one with better DPS was a full Avatar of War GWF, so there..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
It is true what one of the CD-Action (gamers magazine in PL) editors said: "cut the price for 50% of the value and there still be people to whine about it being too high"
Highest cost on R6 i've seen recently is 20-25k, and it's still cheaper than upgrading it yourself. 25k for a MoP, plus 5k for a preservation ward (you might need more than one, on average), plus the R5 enchant x4, that's 5k more, and you can easily spend more than the AH price by doing it yourself.
Budgeting makes sense.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
On the subject of coal wards from invoking, I have 8 toons invoking every day and have received a grand total of 3 coal wards since Module 2 went live last year.
Ancient Shadows: Mature. Sensible. Custard.
Recruitment info at: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?462591-Ancient-Shadows-Become-a-Lion-Tamer-without-learning-Chartered-Accountancy-first!&highlight=ancient+shadows
BTW even now in that game, if you want to keep an item after being killed in pvp, or by spawn in the case you can't make it back to loot your items from your corpse, you have to insure those items you don't wish to lose.
Honestly I,m starting to think there is nothing in this game people wont whine about.
Times change very quickly And you had to grow up early. A house in smoking ruins and the bodies at your feet ~Iron Maiden
There is a point to it , Cryptic have a vested interest in forcing players to have to create new enchantments ,it allows them to sell more wards and also contributes to getting AD out of the economy , some players such as yourself will swap enchantments around many others will just bite the bullet and create and work on new enchantments so they don't have to put up with the hassle of swapping about.
4 since i started at M2 release.
this is a good point. The prices of enchants are dropping fast, and I will probably end up selling all my marks that have dropped (I am somewhere around 5 purples, 12 blues, 80 greens, maybe not the greens, as they get the event enchants to R5 and then sell them) as the marks are still around the same as from WB (need to check that, though). I've crafted my share, and have enough to equip the new class when it comes out (like 5 of every enchant at R6)
it's almost time to cash in my Zen I sold earlier in the year for a profit, too.
Oh, so you should only spend your time in PvP, and not have to do anything outside of PvP, but a PvEer must play PvP matches to get their PvP gear to even be able to survive? You understand that you statement is hypocritical, right?
The game needs both PvE and PvP, and you cannot do PvP without a little PvE, and you cannot be exclusively PvE and expect to be competitive in PvP, so if you're all up in arms about having to gutter run in PvE because you're an elitist PvPer and PvE is beneath you, then your compromise should also include PvE players able to buy PvP gear without requiring Glory
Does it really, though?
PvP has always had all the hallmarks of an afterthought (two maps, one game mode, bonkers scoring system), and an afterthought that seems somewhat ill-advised to boot, since it makes balancing issues exponentially harder. Plus "teaming up with friends to kill a whole bunch of monsters and then a dragon" sounds much more like D&D than....arena-based point-capping 5v5 combat. It's an odd fit, really. I very much doubt the game would survive as a solely PvP experience, whereas it could probably chug along merrily as a PvE only experience. Wouldn't bring in as much money, of course (if you're not PvE-grind-happy, high-end PvP can get silly expensive, which is probably a key point), but general 'game experience'-wise, it's still an odd fit.
Dead on. FREE, and they still insist. I played those games where you can lose everything, you just knuckled down, and built back up again. Didn't seem like it at the time, but it was part of the fun of overcoming obstacles. You must be old school like me, and I swear we are dying breed.
Of course some of my characters are older than many of the players today!
Paragon Vanguard
Luke Minhere
Hughe of The Purple Robes
These arguments sound like a pure attempt to be nasty towards pvp players and grief them as much as you can. We like pvp, so we should feel punished for that! Awesome mentality.
Now you're just fuelling the opposite argument, if the game needs both pve and pvp then we need my suggestion more than ever, which is a pvp character sheet with the ability to use our enchantments from our pve one, along with dual spec. Now people can enjoy pvp and pve without the need to feel punished for enjoying both aspects of the game. If you're frustrated because some better pvp players kicked your *** badly when you were trying to farm glory then I can't say I feel sorry, pvp is very competitive and gaming skills will make a difference. If you don't like that, there's plenty of pve content and non-pvp artifacts out there...
I'm actually amazed by the amount of effort people will do to make other's game experience/lives miserable. Like, it would hurt the whole pve playerbase if pvp players had easier time enjoying their hobby. LOL.
I'm surpised this game doesn't have a 1v1 arena yet. You lose, the opponent takes a piece of your loot. You win, vice versa. Maybe this would teach some people something. XD