Posting to confirm that I use R6 enchants for both my PvE and my PvP sets. I do just fine, gear-wise, and can hold my own against anything without knock-prones or long CC chains. My being any good at PvP, however, is a separate matter that has nothing to do with enchants.
Please, can we get over this? This has been discussed plenty in the past, especially with the introduction of tenacity to armor. Some of us more creative types like to use different weapon combinations and it drains gold FAST. There really is little need for a gold sink. If you need to sink gold, can you provide another sink that doesn't take away the fun of experimentation?
Perhaps allowing gold to soften the blow of upgrading mounts? I spent 50 gold in two days switching between my chosen PvP weapons and my PvE weapons. I'm glad I was wrong about armor being a problem with switching enchantments for PvE and PvP. There is no need to switch. Nobody could afford to switch if they had to. But I'm not wrong about weapons. It's an issue.
Please, just remove the gold cost.
No, just because you CHOOSE to maintain two different sets of armour doesn't mean you should be compensated for that choice. You CHOSE to do this knowing the cost, that you now don't like it is irrelevant.
A world to defend
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
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tluceanMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited April 2014
The issue is experimentation
You can experiment all you want on Preview.
Antovaras makes perfect sense, just like a dozen other replies ...
Nobody is forcing you to swap enchants but yourself. So find the gold or stop swapping.
You could sell 1 Enchanted Key for 130 or more gold. That will pay for a large amount of enchantment removal. You can earn the AD for a key in 3 days on a single character, faster if you have alts with leadership.
And the *smart* people don't. THEY have two sets of enchants to go with their two sets of armor so they never have to remove the enchants. Seriously. This thread actually exists as a serious concern? Seriously? (okay, now I'm just being mean and I don't want to be, but I HAVE to say it, gosh-dang it!)
Perhaps the OP would prefer the cost of enchant removal returns to the Astral Diamond standard that they were at only a couple months ago?
I'm glad you can afford to rank up 2 sets of enchantments. Seen the price of a Coal ward on the AH lately?
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I can completely equip myself in gear and enchants for ~100k AD
Nice try. Coal wards are ~230,000 AD plus at the moment.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I'd say the problem is less the cost and more the sheer tedium of unenchanting, unequipping, moving enchant over, clicking "yes" etc. I am at a loss as to why anyone would bother. Making it free to do wouldn't solve the tedium at all.
If you're doing this, you already clearly have two sets of gear, so...if you're determined to be the absolutely best you can be at PvP, put your best stuff in your PvP gear. If you PvP casually, just use R5s or R6s in your PvP gear. The only thing it might be prohibitively expensive to maintain two of is weapon/armour enchants, and armour is almost always going to be "lesser soulforged" anyway (so only two coalescents needed for two of those, which you should be able to afford eventually), so you're more or less just looking at a weaponswap fee, if you insist on using PvP weapons.
...And you might as well use those weapons in PvE and save yourself the effort, since if you're geared enough to be complaining about enchant switch costs, you're probably overgeared for PvE anyway.
With black ice gear won't most people be able to just use one set for both pve and pvp or are you guys keeping separate sets still? I'm asking just as a question too see what people think about the new upcoming gear sets , not saying this is what people should do before any of you start jumping on me saying I'm wrong , they have much better stats when empowered but the set bonuses are kinda mehish.
With black ice gear won't most people be able to just use one set for both pve and pvp or are you guys keeping separate sets still? I'm asking just as a question too see what people think about the new upcoming gear sets , not saying this is what people should do before any of you start jumping on me saying I'm wrong , they have much better stats when empowered but the set bonuses are kinda mehish.
That is exactly what will happen. Casual pvpers will have one set for both...dedicated pvpers will probably do the same.
The set bonuses for the accessories are geared for pve (proccing off of black ice damage) so even though they have tenacity, they will not get the use of the bonus in pvp.
If you can't be bothered to do 30 minutes of PVE in a day to get enough green/blue junk to sell for gold, in this game that is devoted to PVE and comes from D&D which is entirely PVE, then why are you even playing this game?
There's nothing that says you have to use separate gear for PvE and PvP - that is a voluntary choice which you imposed upon yourself. There's no doubt that switching gear increases your performance in one vs the other, but again, there are so few weighty decisions one has to make in the game already, that taking away one of the last remaining ones would simply reward those that maintain many different sets of equipment - the person that can't afford all the different sets of gear *at least* doesn't have to incur any expense in switching around their enchantments - what is their compensation if one of the few costs associated with this behavior is removed?
That's like saying you don't need a boat and a car and you should equip your car with a float and use it to cross water.
If tenacity has no purpose then it needs to be removed or added as an extra stat to existing gear.
Do I want to use existing PVP gear for PVE? Hell no. Am I at a disadvantage when not using tenacity gear for PVP? YES.
i wonder if it would be possible to socket the slot instead of socket the item itself. alternately, removing the cost to unslot considering the number of times it would take to swap between pvp and pve items would be nice. honestly, it is a lot of item maintenance involved.
although i did my own experimenting on the live shard by using R5s and tenacity gear vs my higher end enchants on my PvE gear and found myself to still be viable in PvE. that was a direct switch from soulforged/vorpal to bloodtheft/lifedrinker as well.
alternately, i have also pvp'd in my pve gear with only the base 10% reduction.
so the real question remains: is it a huge issue to PvE in PvP gear and vice versa?
Yes it is. The set bonuses on pvp armors are bad for pve. And we're losing stats.
I'm running with a bare pvp armor just because the cost of moving enchantments is insane. And I can't even consider buying pvp jewelry. Which means that all I have is pretty much useless.
We need a pvp character sheet to equip pvp gear on it, with the ability to socket enchantments we already equipped on our current (pve) character sheet. It would require some work from the UI guys and programmers but currently doing well/better pvp isn't even an option if you play pve. Unless this is an incentive to purchase gold from gold seller, I mean.
Problem with socketing the slot rather than the item is then...how do you swap the enchant in the slot? At the moment if I want my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tank to go supertanky, I can just swap a few bits of jewelry and armour around, then when I'm back to solo stuff I can ditch that for "moar powah", but if the "slot" was enchanted rather than the items, this would presumably leave me in exactly the same state as the OP, just for run of the mill PvE. (i.e. before even thinking about PvP issues).
EDIT: I would guess the underlying rationale (assuming you look past the fact that it used to cost a staggering amount of AD to unslot anything, so the gold fee is laughably tiny by comparison) is that if you're doing well enough to be running around with a perfect whatever, then you can afford to pay for swapping it out, and if you're only using lessers coz you're a cheap/poor person (such as myself) then it probably wouldn't make a huge amount of difference either way.
That's like saying you don't need a boat and a car and you should equip your car with a float and use it to cross water.
That's like saying you wouldn't want to buy a car and a boat with a single engine and swap it around. You either buy a full car and a full boat, or you stick to one.
You mostly do PVP? Put your r10s on your PVP gear. You can do PvE well with r7/r8 (that currently costs next to nothing, market prices dropped heavily).
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
If you can't be bothered to do 30 minutes of PVE in a day to get enough green/blue junk to sell for gold, in this game that is devoted to PVE and comes from D&D which is entirely PVE, then why are you even playing this game?
If you do the Rhix Foundry Daily for this it may take a little longer, but you even get 4000 AD to boot!
As for the complaint on Key prices just start asking to buy them for less, or.... barter for enchants you don't need.
Seriously, people underrate the usefulness of barter.
EDIT: Adding in a thought - There's already a Gear page and a Fashion Page to the Charecter sheet. If you want autoswap between PvE and PvP gear this means adding in another page to the Character Sheet. That sounds like it'd take awhile to code.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Don't be over-melodramatic. I'll grant you that the stats on PvP gear are sub-optimal for PvE. But don't you go insinuating that you can't do PvE in PvP gear, because that's totally rubbish. My 3 characters never had any problem doing PvE when they started out with their PvP gear. Maybe you won't reach top paingiver with it, and maybe you have to use a pot here and there, but PvP gear is not as useless in PvE as you pretend it to be.
Back OT: I see no reason to remove the gold costs. First of all, it requires only a small amount. We're talking about what? 6G for a complete enchantment makeover? Let's make it 10G for those with high lvl enchants. I had more than that when I was lvl 20. Plus it's a good enticement for PvPers to do some PvE every now and then. And before you PvP lot start crying you don't want to: PvE people are enticed to PvP for the artifact, which takes a LOT more work. I see no reason for PvP people to be granted special permits. You want something done, you work for it. Plain and simple.
IF they ever consider allowing a 2nd gearset to be equipped Melo's suggestion would be awesome. But I doubt they will. They make money out of selling storage space, so they don't have much reason to do so.
Yes I can I could even run T2s using blue vendor ****, but I don't want to do it. The current design partially negates character progression... All this game is about.
Your frustration about people enjoying pvp and your wishes to let a lousy system in place to **** them off is funny by the way.
Nice try. Coal wards are ~230,000 AD plus at the moment.
Why are you using coal wards for enchants other than armour/weapon? The weapon one being the one that you'd probably keep since it has a set bonus unless you really do prefer pvp in which case you pay prefer sticking with the pvp one. You can get rank 7s for a pretty cheap price which will allow you to be pretty decent for whichever mode you want to focus least on. Though personally I've even crafted spare soulforged for pvp gear...
If you can't be bothered to do 30 minutes of PVE in a day to get enough green/blue junk to sell for gold, in this game that is devoted to PVE and comes from D&D which is entirely PVE, then why are you even playing this game?
Not sure how you're getting the 2.5 gold per slot in 30 mins play. Using id scrolls on green stuff is a waste too. Still it's a much better system than the one before it.
Don't be over-melodramatic. I'll grant you that the stats on PvP gear are sub-optimal for PvE. But don't you go insinuating that you can't do PvE in PvP gear, because that's totally rubbish. My 3 characters never had any problem doing PvE when they started out with their PvP gear.
Maybe so, however having pve gear for pvp will give you a big disadvantage.
I don't call "being slaughtered repeatedly with a 2s life expectancy a big disadvantage. This would be an euphemism.
It depends. The elo system isn't very effective so if you have decent pve gear you should still be able to beat the lower geared ones (more likely if you're a premade), even though you have no or little tencaity, however going against the toughest people you will get your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> kicked
If you make everything free and convenient, then nothing is worth anything. While I have yet to PvP on here, and probably wont be bringing along PvP gear if I do, I think those that work and pay for the equipment and changes should have a benefit that a casual, use my gold for other things PvE, has. YOU choose what is important, and let it shine above others that chose something else. We are too often faced with people wanting it all, right away, and not having to put much into it. I believe this discussion was probably started by someone frustrated that they had to choose. I WANT hardcore PvPers to shine because they probably had to sacrifice in other areas to do so. Those that have put in alot of time playing should be able to easily afford stuff. Those that spend actual money should have things that others that are strictly here for free has.
If/When I do PvP, and I do not have the super duper set of nothing can touch me in PvP gear that some may have, I will just have to come up with other ways of being competitive....maybe I wont, maybe there arent other way, but if it means that much to me, then I best start saving my cash so that I can be more competitive.
Rare things should be rare. There should be coveted items for both PvE and PvP that very few have and only someone dedicated to getting the item has. I do not begrudge those that can afford both if they earned it. As has been said, there is enough stuff for free that even a casual player can get if you simply look about and put SOME effort. I have a level 2 lantern artifact (recieved before level 20) that I have no idea how I got, and only understood it's value when I started trying to refine one from scratch. If everyone has one dont tell me, cause right now it feels very special to me, but surely there would be some that would complain that its not fair that I found that and they did not.
PvPers should feel that their armor is special compared to a novice casual PvPer like me, they earned it. To earn something, there HAS to be a cost. You dont earn free. Free is never special if everyone has it.
To be fair, diogene0: you've been complaining that PvE is facerolling easy for...quite some time, now. Maybe just wear your PvP stuff for PvE and regain a little bit of that challenging feel?
Joking aside, the biggest problem here really is that PvE and PvP aren't separate. Roughly 100% of the problems with PvE/PvP conflict could be solved by never letting the two interact. Make a PvP toon to facesmash other dudes, make a PvE toon to facesmash random AI monsters. Make everything you need for PvP available from PvP, and vice versa for PvE.
I do a decnet amount of PvP, and have a separate set of PvP gear (currently Grim, will be Profound in a day or so). I put my highest rank enchants in my PvE gear because I prefer PvE to PvP, but I still have a full set of rank 7s in my PvP gear, though a couple of them are not really optimal (a silvery and an azure when I would prefer 2 more radiants), but I am content with my performance in PvP and plan on upgrading my PvO enchants when I can.
It is all about priorities. I prioritize PvE over PvP, and realize that I will not do as well in PvP as I otherwise might, but as long as I feel that I am pulling my weight in PvP (which I usually think I do, but sometimes my CW gets curb-stomped, not unusual for a CW) I have to live with my decision to be a primary PvE build.
What if Cryptic removed the ability to unslot enchants entirely? I mean, the button does say "commit". It could just as easily mean what it says and once an enchant has been slotted the only way to remove it is destruction.
That would be fun, right?
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
What if Cryptic removed the ability to unslot enchants entirely? I mean, the button does say "commit". It could just as easily mean what it says and once an enchant has been slotted the only way to remove it is destruction.
At one time this was the case, once you slotted an enchant it was not something you could remove. This was something people did not like so it was changed. I just thank god that it wasn't some crazy AD value to change like it is to change the appearance of something (50+K ad to change an appearance is absurd), I can replenish gold better than I can AD.
If they did AD for swapping enchants good god it would probably be 50 - 100k a pop to do it cause some how the developers think a large number of players have some massive pile of AD to spend. Casual players can only refine 24k in AD per day and while that cap is pretty easy to reach regularly it would take a long time to just whimsically make enough to blow on cosmetics when everything else in the game you need to enhance your character is so expensive, assuming you played even a little bit every day which i'm sure a large number of people don't play every single day.
Free and easy has nothing to do with this discussion. This is all about a totally uneccessary pain in the *** getting in the way of us fully enjoying both aspects of the game.
It's that simple. Also, anyone who thinks you can make enough gold to do both is outright lying about it. Trust me, you CANNOT make enough gold to do it.
Also, I CAN PvE with my chosen PvP weapons, that's not the point. The point is, I SHOULDN'T have to. It's gold, it's close to worthless. Cryptic/PWE loses nothing by eliminating gold from enchantment slotting completely. All it does is keeps players who are creative and good at both PvP and PvE from having the maximum amount of fun. Tedious stuff like this is why people get mad at games.
Yes in one week i have burnt 100 gold on my account (two characters playing pvp), and even though I have some deep pockets, that wasn't sustainable at all, so I stopped switching enchantments and just keep my pve jewelry and have a bare pvp armor. Kinda sad because i have perfects/r8-9s but there's no way around it, except buying twice the same enchantments and that's a no go.
Comments
No, just because you CHOOSE to maintain two different sets of armour doesn't mean you should be compensated for that choice. You CHOSE to do this knowing the cost, that you now don't like it is irrelevant.
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
You can experiment all you want on Preview.
Antovaras makes perfect sense, just like a dozen other replies ...
Nobody is forcing you to swap enchants but yourself. So find the gold or stop swapping.
I'm glad you can afford to rank up 2 sets of enchantments. Seen the price of a Coal ward on the AH lately?
Nice try. Coal wards are ~230,000 AD plus at the moment.
If you're doing this, you already clearly have two sets of gear, so...if you're determined to be the absolutely best you can be at PvP, put your best stuff in your PvP gear. If you PvP casually, just use R5s or R6s in your PvP gear. The only thing it might be prohibitively expensive to maintain two of is weapon/armour enchants, and armour is almost always going to be "lesser soulforged" anyway (so only two coalescents needed for two of those, which you should be able to afford eventually), so you're more or less just looking at a weaponswap fee, if you insist on using PvP weapons.
...And you might as well use those weapons in PvE and save yourself the effort, since if you're geared enough to be complaining about enchant switch costs, you're probably overgeared for PvE anyway.
That is exactly what will happen. Casual pvpers will have one set for both...dedicated pvpers will probably do the same.
The set bonuses for the accessories are geared for pve (proccing off of black ice damage) so even though they have tenacity, they will not get the use of the bonus in pvp.
That's like saying you don't need a boat and a car and you should equip your car with a float and use it to cross water.
If tenacity has no purpose then it needs to be removed or added as an extra stat to existing gear.
Do I want to use existing PVP gear for PVE? Hell no. Am I at a disadvantage when not using tenacity gear for PVP? YES.
There is no one size fits all.
Yes it is. The set bonuses on pvp armors are bad for pve. And we're losing stats.
I'm running with a bare pvp armor just because the cost of moving enchantments is insane. And I can't even consider buying pvp jewelry. Which means that all I have is pretty much useless.
We need a pvp character sheet to equip pvp gear on it, with the ability to socket enchantments we already equipped on our current (pve) character sheet. It would require some work from the UI guys and programmers but currently doing well/better pvp isn't even an option if you play pve. Unless this is an incentive to purchase gold from gold seller, I mean.
EDIT: I would guess the underlying rationale (assuming you look past the fact that it used to cost a staggering amount of AD to unslot anything, so the gold fee is laughably tiny by comparison) is that if you're doing well enough to be running around with a perfect whatever, then you can afford to pay for swapping it out, and if you're only using lessers coz you're a cheap/poor person (such as myself) then it probably wouldn't make a huge amount of difference either way.
That's like saying you wouldn't want to buy a car and a boat with a single engine and swap it around. You either buy a full car and a full boat, or you stick to one.
You mostly do PVP? Put your r10s on your PVP gear. You can do PvE well with r7/r8 (that currently costs next to nothing, market prices dropped heavily).
If you do the Rhix Foundry Daily for this it may take a little longer, but you even get 4000 AD to boot!
As for the complaint on Key prices just start asking to buy them for less, or.... barter for enchants you don't need.
Seriously, people underrate the usefulness of barter.
EDIT: Adding in a thought - There's already a Gear page and a Fashion Page to the Charecter sheet. If you want autoswap between PvE and PvP gear this means adding in another page to the Character Sheet. That sounds like it'd take awhile to code.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Yes I can I could even run T2s using blue vendor ****, but I don't want to do it. The current design partially negates character progression... All this game is about.
Your frustration about people enjoying pvp and your wishes to let a lousy system in place to **** them off is funny by the way.
Not sure how you're getting the 2.5 gold per slot in 30 mins play. Using id scrolls on green stuff is a waste too. Still it's a much better system than the one before it.
Maybe so, however having pve gear for pvp will give you a big disadvantage.
I don't call "being slaughtered repeatedly with a 2s life expectancy a big disadvantage. This would be an euphemism.
It depends. The elo system isn't very effective so if you have decent pve gear you should still be able to beat the lower geared ones (more likely if you're a premade), even though you have no or little tencaity, however going against the toughest people you will get your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> kicked
If/When I do PvP, and I do not have the super duper set of nothing can touch me in PvP gear that some may have, I will just have to come up with other ways of being competitive....maybe I wont, maybe there arent other way, but if it means that much to me, then I best start saving my cash so that I can be more competitive.
Rare things should be rare. There should be coveted items for both PvE and PvP that very few have and only someone dedicated to getting the item has. I do not begrudge those that can afford both if they earned it. As has been said, there is enough stuff for free that even a casual player can get if you simply look about and put SOME effort. I have a level 2 lantern artifact (recieved before level 20) that I have no idea how I got, and only understood it's value when I started trying to refine one from scratch. If everyone has one dont tell me, cause right now it feels very special to me, but surely there would be some that would complain that its not fair that I found that and they did not.
PvPers should feel that their armor is special compared to a novice casual PvPer like me, they earned it. To earn something, there HAS to be a cost. You dont earn free. Free is never special if everyone has it.
Paragon Vanguard
Luke Minhere
Hughe of The Purple Robes
Joking aside, the biggest problem here really is that PvE and PvP aren't separate. Roughly 100% of the problems with PvE/PvP conflict could be solved by never letting the two interact. Make a PvP toon to facesmash other dudes, make a PvE toon to facesmash random AI monsters. Make everything you need for PvP available from PvP, and vice versa for PvE.
It is all about priorities. I prioritize PvE over PvP, and realize that I will not do as well in PvP as I otherwise might, but as long as I feel that I am pulling my weight in PvP (which I usually think I do, but sometimes my CW gets curb-stomped, not unusual for a CW) I have to live with my decision to be a primary PvE build.
That would be fun, right?
At one time this was the case, once you slotted an enchant it was not something you could remove. This was something people did not like so it was changed. I just thank god that it wasn't some crazy AD value to change like it is to change the appearance of something (50+K ad to change an appearance is absurd), I can replenish gold better than I can AD.
If they did AD for swapping enchants good god it would probably be 50 - 100k a pop to do it cause some how the developers think a large number of players have some massive pile of AD to spend. Casual players can only refine 24k in AD per day and while that cap is pretty easy to reach regularly it would take a long time to just whimsically make enough to blow on cosmetics when everything else in the game you need to enhance your character is so expensive, assuming you played even a little bit every day which i'm sure a large number of people don't play every single day.
Yes in one week i have burnt 100 gold on my account (two characters playing pvp), and even though I have some deep pockets, that wasn't sustainable at all, so I stopped switching enchantments and just keep my pve jewelry and have a bare pvp armor. Kinda sad because i have perfects/r8-9s but there's no way around it, except buying twice the same enchantments and that's a no go.