Hi i want to make a script to switch gear and encounter powers ,but i cant find anything on game terms of use about usage of scripts, so i was just wondering if its allowed to use scripts or not
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
And any third party automation can be interpreted as violation of the Terms of Service regarding botting.
There is no exact ruling on what is or is not acceptable. It is very much gray and is handled on a case by case basis. Use your best judgement and I recommend to err to the side of caution when using any macros.
My personal definition is if the game doesn't supply it to you then you are bottling. There are automation commands in the game. If they aren't there then don't use it. However this may or may not be the Official Stance on the subject.
Even amongst the mods I can safely say I have the most strict definition of what is and is not botting. Sitting at your screen doesn't make botting acceptable in my books and I tend to file it in the same regards as exploiting. If you have an unfair advantage don't do it.
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
He just wants to switch gear&encounters, this is not botting. It's a QoL improvement that should already be in the game, other MMOs have it. The power/gear switching in this game is EXTREMELY clunky, even after the improvements.
He just wants to switch gear&encounters, this is not botting. It's a QoL improvement that should already be in the game, other MMOs have it. The power/gear switching in this game is EXTREMELY clunky, even after the improvements.
correct, it's not botting if you have to push a button. it's called a MACRO.
legal or not there's no way they can detect it so...
And any third party automation can be interpreted as violation of the Terms of Service regarding botting.
There is no exact ruling on what is or is not acceptable. It is very much gray and is handled on a case by case basis. Use your best judgement and I recommend to err to the side of caution when using any macros.
.
i'd like to have an official and clear answer about this, like yes u can use it or no u cant ,if you do it you are banned, because if i cant use scripts its not a problem for me , i just want to be sure at 100% that my account will not be banned for this. As persephone said before other mmo have a function to fast switch your gear or skills ,and of course it gives a small advantage in some situations but its not botting.
kythostMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited March 2014
Loading out your powers and gear set would be a huge quality of life improvement.
Even the Plane of Powers edition of Everquest had spell sets! (Probably earlier, but can't remember that far back)(It took them a little bit longer to get weapon sets macroed).
As long as all your powers went into cooldown when you use such a feature, I could support having keybinds or something that let you change equipment/powers on-the-fly provided they carried all the same restrictions as doing it manually (no powers on cooldown, etc).
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited March 2014
Having the ability to switch between a few power presets would be a great addition - I tend to use 1 set of powers while solo, another when teaming, yet another if I PvP, and finally one just for the tougher dungeon bosses...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don't mind having a single key to switch between set up of powers for solo, and one for team play, but it should be greyed out (unusable) when you are in combat stance.
And any third party automation can be interpreted as violation of the Terms of Service regarding botting.
There is no exact ruling on what is or is not acceptable. It is very much gray and is handled on a case by case basis. Use your best judgement and I recommend to err to the side of caution when using any macros.
My personal definition is if the game doesn't supply it to you then you are bottling. There are automation commands in the game. If they aren't there then don't use it. However this may or may not be the Official Stance on the subject.
I'm still curious as to what the /MacroExec & /MacroRun & /InventoryExec work.
These commands are supplied in-game, however, details on them (how to use) are nonexistent. I'm against botting as much as the next person as well as exploiting. It would be nice to be able to setup a Macro to change my powers from one combination to another based on what I'm doing -or- use all my potion buffs without having to open inventory and clicking on them each individually - things like that is what I'm looking to do.
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0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited April 2014
The line between botting and macroing is really non-existent. A bot is a macro at the core.
And many a botter have tried to justify the use of bots with it being a quality of life feature.
The only thing I can tell you for sure if that if you can use in game commands you should be alright. If you use third party macroing tools they read no different that botting software to detection systems. For instance people have argued that botting should be allowed as long as you have to hold down a key but at the end of the day detection systems can not tell the difference between a person who is holding down a key to bot or a person who programmed a key to remain pressed in order to bot.
If it is not able to be done through in game functions by way of key commands then it is not available whether you believe it should or not. At which point any macro (bot) to complete said action could be interpreted as an unfair advantage and thus a violation of the Terms of Service.
For instance you can argue quick swapping powers is a quality of life improvement.
If it was available to everybody it would be but it is not.
At the point it is used in PvP and is only available to those with a programmable keyboard or mouse that can equally be argued as an unfair advantage.
So in short, as always, consider if an action you are doing is providing an unfair advantage to against those with different hardware or software than you. If the answer is yes it is probably best not to do it as PWE may opt to consider that a violation of the Terms of Service.
The bolded portion is about as official as it will come. Like exploiting there would be entire novels written in rule books if they tried to define the specifics of what does and does not constitute a violation.
If it is a command available by the game itself you may use it.
If it is not provided directly by Cryptic or PWE and provides an unfair advantage use at your own risk.
It's cute when threads like this need/request an official response, and instead we get an opinion from a volunteer forum moderator
here's another suggestion from a different moderator:
it is at PWE's discretion as to what they will and will not define as exploiting. if you're willing to take the risk, it is on you if your account is flagged and banned. that's not my opinion, that's a fact.
It's cute when threads like this need/request an official response, and instead we get an opinion from a volunteer forum moderator
Neither PWE or Cryptic will ever give a definitive answer on what you can do before it's considered an exploit in order to avoid people going up to the line they draw and then citing the official answer whilst effectively going "Nah nah nah nah nah, you can't ban me". By keeping silent on how far you can go it allows them to continue checking this stuff on a case by case basis and issuing bans where they see fit.
0
kythostMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
With a little research people will find that Cryptic games do indeed support in game macro's. STO Boards are a perfect place to go for this.
First you need to understand basic programming. Second Cryptic has no documentation on how to set them up or what you indeed can do with them. I knew a player working on in game macro's and he had several working but he has since moved on to another game.
They are possible but they are a super big pain in the butt to figure out!
Edit:
Links to the STO info. No idea how players are getting their list of macro's set up and usable in NWO!
also, i don't think the discussion here had anything to do with in-game keybinds because if that were the case, there would already be documents on how to create such keybinds as they currently have on STO's wiki and forum.
the ToS has this to say:
12. Data Collected To Prevent Cheating And Unauthorized Software
12.1 You understand and agree that when user our Service and/or run our Game software, this can and may involve software functions designed to detect cheating or unauthorized and malicious programs. In this context, we may access, collect, monitor and/or remotely store screenshots of game play, information relating to hardware capacity, modifications related to our Game software, signatures, profiles or names of known unauthorized or malicious third party programs, files or processes that enable or facilitate cheating, unfair advantage or hacking of the Games or Service. If unauthorized or malicious programs are detected, the Game software may also communicate to us the users account and User ID and information about the unauthorized or malicious program or its use.
so you can take this information and interpret it how you want, but it is PWE that will determine what is and isn't a violation.
that's all just lawyer-speak. anti-cheat software wouldn't be effective even if they did use it. the program is 32 bit, it runs in 32 bit space, it cannot look into 64 bit space, where the bot/whatever software runs.
plus for the things we're talking about here you don't need software, just a programmable keyboard/mouse. which looks no different to the computer than keying it in yourself (just faster). if they ban that then they have to ban people using keyboards/mice completely... which makes no sense.
What I find amazing is they haven't added the option for multiple setups.
It's simply ridiculous that you need to manually set up a loadout for PVP then switch it back for PVE etc. etc. Quite a bit higher priority than adding new companions and mounts to the game.....
Most EULAs have a generic "a$$ shield" clause stating that you are not allowed to use "3rd party software". But by definition Direct X and VC libraries are other programs not owned by PWE or Cryptic... thus 3rd party software. Keyboard and mouse drivers are 3rd party. Some keyboards have special media keys that run 3rd party software.
The OP asked a question and got hammered about botting and I fully understood he was asking about the switch gear like Guild Wars has F1 to F4 designated to swap out my weapons or WoW has a built in macro editor for such usage. But alas no the developers don't think you need those tools, sorry lucadevil2 you are out in the cold.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
plus for the things we're talking about here you don't need software, just a programmable keyboard/mouse. which looks no different to the computer than keying it in yourself (just faster). if they ban that then they have to ban people using keyboards/mice completely... which makes no sense.
Programmable keys are run by third party programs.
Again since they act exactly the same to a bot to detection systems (which btw has absolutely no bearing on whether you are 32 or 64 bit...) It can be detected as botting if you chain commands together using that third party software. If you use single commands per key you are fine so long as the command is a basic key or in game command line.
Programmable Mice and Keyboards are not explicitly stated as being against the rules but if you use the programs to create macros there is a fine line between macroing and botting.
They also violate the rule of using third party software and any use of specific keyboards can be looked into as an unfair advantage.
There is no "This is fine and this is not" ruling though. It is purely case by case following the citation of the Terms of Service Melody posted.
If what you are doing is granting an unfair advantage due to additional hardware or software you are using it at your own risk. This is really not up for debate. It is explicitly stated in the Terms of Service. Just because you can buy macroing software via keyboards and mice does not mean you may use them in such a fashion.
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited April 2014
I would argue that another big difference is whether the person using said macros is actually present while they are being executed - it's one thing to use a programmable mouse or keyboard to save you a few keystrokes, and another thing entirely to set something up where you just login and can walk away while the program does its thing.
Regardless, it is PWE that has the final say as to what's allowed, and it is highly unlikely that they will give an official response.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
When in the attempt to catch cheaters and botters, it is wise not to reveal your hand to those who would seek to exploit that information. Therefore, I doubt that PWE/Cryptic would give an "official" response in regards to this matter beyond what is already known in the Terms of Service; largely in part because it really is a case-by-case basis.
Whether such scripts exist or not, or what you define them as, ultimately, it's PWE's sandbox you're playing in. If they say it's an exploit, it's an exploit, and you use such programs or tools at your own risk.
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If you use single commands per key you are fine so long as the command is a basic key or in game command line.
ok so whats the in game console command or command line located? The tilde key or what? Next question, I want to use CTRL+ALT+Z and equip "certain name of gear" in the head slot. So, how do I do that? of course I want to swap from one helmet to another w/o having to actually click on anything, wasting mouse movements.
To be frank, I'm not asking how to do some entire race reroll from the command line or something ridiculous. There are times when I need more deflect and other times I need more recovery but why-why-WHY do I have to fish through my 'character sheet', hover mouse, select helmet, then what type of helmet or which one then select that. By the time I can get out of my character screen my party has moved on or I'm dead because something big just one shot me while i was 'making up my mind' or during PvP it looks like I or someone is camping at the camp fire while everyone else is running around trying not to die because without that 'camper' theyre getting ganged up on. Oh yeah, gear swaps are tedious, painfull, clunky and in DIRE need of an upgrade. At least, the very least, tell us how to acess the command line and what is '/put this thing here' for swapping out a single piece of gear, please.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2014
The text box is the command area.
There is no way to auto-equip items with console commands.
And any third party automation can be interpreted as violation of the Terms of Service regarding botting.
There is no exact ruling on what is or is not acceptable. It is very much gray and is handled on a case by case basis. Use your best judgement and I recommend to err to the side of caution when using any macros.
My personal definition is if the game doesn't supply it to you then you are bottling. There are automation commands in the game. If they aren't there then don't use it. However this may or may not be the Official Stance on the subject.
Even amongst the mods I can safely say I have the most strict definition of what is and is not botting. Sitting at your screen doesn't make botting acceptable in my books and I tend to file it in the same regards as exploiting. If you have an unfair advantage don't do it.
In WoW you can switch your gear and power tray with one click. That is a very important basic function that has been missing from this game from the beginning. I think it is a shame the devs haven't made it possible yet. (I should not even dare to mention dual-talent...)
Farming AR or glory or whatever with a botting program, that should be against the rules, right, but if someone would make an add-on for this game to have this function, that person should be praised...
Also I am missing a built-in damage meter from the game. I want to see my current DPS in each moment in order to test different bilds and gear.
Two basic functions...
The first is present in most online games. Why not here?
In WoW you can switch your gear and power tray with one click. That is a very important basic function that has been missing from this game from the beginning.
That is nice. This isn't WoW and item swapping is not really required. There's no reason to swap weapons really since weapon types do not really provide statistical advantage and frankly every D&D game should (and almost all have) disabled armor swapping in combat.
I'd sooner request a disabling of armor swapping than ask for an easier way to swap armor in combat, and if you're not in combat there's no need for a quick switch.
So why isn't it here? Likely because it doesn't fit into the game.
Or if you are asking why you can't use a third party program to do it then the answer is because that is called cheating since you are gaining an advantage over people who are following the mechanics the developers have given them.
General rule of thumb: if it's not in a console command and your are doing a multi-step function you are likely botting.
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There is no exact ruling on what is or is not acceptable. It is very much gray and is handled on a case by case basis. Use your best judgement and I recommend to err to the side of caution when using any macros.
My personal definition is if the game doesn't supply it to you then you are bottling. There are automation commands in the game. If they aren't there then don't use it. However this may or may not be the Official Stance on the subject.
Even amongst the mods I can safely say I have the most strict definition of what is and is not botting. Sitting at your screen doesn't make botting acceptable in my books and I tend to file it in the same regards as exploiting. If you have an unfair advantage don't do it.
correct, it's not botting if you have to push a button. it's called a MACRO.
legal or not there's no way they can detect it so...
i'd like to have an official and clear answer about this, like yes u can use it or no u cant ,if you do it you are banned, because if i cant use scripts its not a problem for me , i just want to be sure at 100% that my account will not be banned for this. As persephone said before other mmo have a function to fast switch your gear or skills ,and of course it gives a small advantage in some situations but its not botting.
Even the Plane of Powers edition of Everquest had spell sets! (Probably earlier, but can't remember that far back)(It took them a little bit longer to get weapon sets macroed).
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm still curious as to what the /MacroExec & /MacroRun & /InventoryExec work.
These commands are supplied in-game, however, details on them (how to use) are nonexistent. I'm against botting as much as the next person as well as exploiting. It would be nice to be able to setup a Macro to change my powers from one combination to another based on what I'm doing -or- use all my potion buffs without having to open inventory and clicking on them each individually - things like that is what I'm looking to do.
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Join the legit community channel on Neverwinter!
/channel_join NW_Legit_Community
/bind 9 channel_setcurrent NW_Legit_Community
And press 9 in game (not in ALT mode) to easily access the channel!
And many a botter have tried to justify the use of bots with it being a quality of life feature.
The only thing I can tell you for sure if that if you can use in game commands you should be alright. If you use third party macroing tools they read no different that botting software to detection systems. For instance people have argued that botting should be allowed as long as you have to hold down a key but at the end of the day detection systems can not tell the difference between a person who is holding down a key to bot or a person who programmed a key to remain pressed in order to bot.
If it is not able to be done through in game functions by way of key commands then it is not available whether you believe it should or not. At which point any macro (bot) to complete said action could be interpreted as an unfair advantage and thus a violation of the Terms of Service.
For instance you can argue quick swapping powers is a quality of life improvement.
If it was available to everybody it would be but it is not.
At the point it is used in PvP and is only available to those with a programmable keyboard or mouse that can equally be argued as an unfair advantage.
So in short, as always, consider if an action you are doing is providing an unfair advantage to against those with different hardware or software than you. If the answer is yes it is probably best not to do it as PWE may opt to consider that a violation of the Terms of Service.
The bolded portion is about as official as it will come. Like exploiting there would be entire novels written in rule books if they tried to define the specifics of what does and does not constitute a violation.
If it is a command available by the game itself you may use it.
If it is not provided directly by Cryptic or PWE and provides an unfair advantage use at your own risk.
here's another suggestion from a different moderator:
it is at PWE's discretion as to what they will and will not define as exploiting. if you're willing to take the risk, it is on you if your account is flagged and banned. that's not my opinion, that's a fact.
Neither PWE or Cryptic will ever give a definitive answer on what you can do before it's considered an exploit in order to avoid people going up to the line they draw and then citing the official answer whilst effectively going "Nah nah nah nah nah, you can't ban me". By keeping silent on how far you can go it allows them to continue checking this stuff on a case by case basis and issuing bans where they see fit.
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only allow for weapon/gear/skill profile changes when all cooldown timers have elapsed and not in battle mode
macros and keybinds are not one in the same.
also, i don't think the discussion here had anything to do with in-game keybinds because if that were the case, there would already be documents on how to create such keybinds as they currently have on STO's wiki and forum.
the ToS has this to say:
so you can take this information and interpret it how you want, but it is PWE that will determine what is and isn't a violation.
plus for the things we're talking about here you don't need software, just a programmable keyboard/mouse. which looks no different to the computer than keying it in yourself (just faster). if they ban that then they have to ban people using keyboards/mice completely... which makes no sense.
It's simply ridiculous that you need to manually set up a loadout for PVP then switch it back for PVE etc. etc. Quite a bit higher priority than adding new companions and mounts to the game.....
The OP asked a question and got hammered about botting and I fully understood he was asking about the switch gear like Guild Wars has F1 to F4 designated to swap out my weapons or WoW has a built in macro editor for such usage. But alas no the developers don't think you need those tools, sorry lucadevil2 you are out in the cold.
Programmable keys are run by third party programs.
Again since they act exactly the same to a bot to detection systems (which btw has absolutely no bearing on whether you are 32 or 64 bit...) It can be detected as botting if you chain commands together using that third party software. If you use single commands per key you are fine so long as the command is a basic key or in game command line.
Programmable Mice and Keyboards are not explicitly stated as being against the rules but if you use the programs to create macros there is a fine line between macroing and botting.
They also violate the rule of using third party software and any use of specific keyboards can be looked into as an unfair advantage.
There is no "This is fine and this is not" ruling though. It is purely case by case following the citation of the Terms of Service Melody posted.
If what you are doing is granting an unfair advantage due to additional hardware or software you are using it at your own risk. This is really not up for debate. It is explicitly stated in the Terms of Service. Just because you can buy macroing software via keyboards and mice does not mean you may use them in such a fashion.
Use your best judgement.
Regardless, it is PWE that has the final say as to what's allowed, and it is highly unlikely that they will give an official response.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Whether such scripts exist or not, or what you define them as, ultimately, it's PWE's sandbox you're playing in. If they say it's an exploit, it's an exploit, and you use such programs or tools at your own risk.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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ok so whats the in game console command or command line located? The tilde key or what? Next question, I want to use CTRL+ALT+Z and equip "certain name of gear" in the head slot. So, how do I do that? of course I want to swap from one helmet to another w/o having to actually click on anything, wasting mouse movements.
To be frank, I'm not asking how to do some entire race reroll from the command line or something ridiculous. There are times when I need more deflect and other times I need more recovery but why-why-WHY do I have to fish through my 'character sheet', hover mouse, select helmet, then what type of helmet or which one then select that. By the time I can get out of my character screen my party has moved on or I'm dead because something big just one shot me while i was 'making up my mind' or during PvP it looks like I or someone is camping at the camp fire while everyone else is running around trying not to die because without that 'camper' theyre getting ganged up on. Oh yeah, gear swaps are tedious, painfull, clunky and in DIRE need of an upgrade. At least, the very least, tell us how to acess the command line and what is '/put this thing here' for swapping out a single piece of gear, please.
There is no way to auto-equip items with console commands.
In WoW you can switch your gear and power tray with one click. That is a very important basic function that has been missing from this game from the beginning. I think it is a shame the devs haven't made it possible yet. (I should not even dare to mention dual-talent...)
Farming AR or glory or whatever with a botting program, that should be against the rules, right, but if someone would make an add-on for this game to have this function, that person should be praised...
Also I am missing a built-in damage meter from the game. I want to see my current DPS in each moment in order to test different bilds and gear.
Two basic functions...
The first is present in most online games. Why not here?
For examining your DPS you need to google Advanced Combat Tracker it has a plugin for Neverwinter.
...and yes, switching gear/power trays has been requested over, and over, and over, and over, and over since beta.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
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That is nice. This isn't WoW and item swapping is not really required. There's no reason to swap weapons really since weapon types do not really provide statistical advantage and frankly every D&D game should (and almost all have) disabled armor swapping in combat.
I'd sooner request a disabling of armor swapping than ask for an easier way to swap armor in combat, and if you're not in combat there's no need for a quick switch.
So why isn't it here? Likely because it doesn't fit into the game.
Or if you are asking why you can't use a third party program to do it then the answer is because that is called cheating since you are gaining an advantage over people who are following the mechanics the developers have given them.
General rule of thumb: if it's not in a console command and your are doing a multi-step function you are likely botting.