We wont have a balanced discussion here.
You have GWF fans over exaggerating the dps loss, yes it is substantial, but the way to fix PvE is not by keeping the DPS as it is now.
DPS needs a nerf all around the table.
The next class to receive a huge DPS nerf should be the CW. If the point is to move away from the DPS meta at all.
Nerf Shard avalanche, Eye of the Storm and Sudden storm DPS, and we can have a real CONTROL wizard, not a DPS mage.
After that, every team will be forced to have damage mitigation, aggro control and support if they want to tackle the most difficult encounters.
We wont have a balanced discussion here. You have GWF fans over exaggerating the dps loss, yes it is substantial, but the way to fix PvE is not by keeping the DPS as it is now.
DPS needs a nerf all around the table.
The next class to receive a huge DPS nerf should be the CW. If the point is to move away from the DPS meta at all.
Nerf Shard avalanche, Eye of the Storm and Sudden storm DPS, and we can have a real CONTROL wizard, not a DPS mage.
After that, every team will be forced to have damage mitigation, aggro control and support if they want to tackle the most difficult encounters.
Well maybe, but given that the loss seems to be figured from ACTUAL parses, what other less 'biased' sources can you possibly want?
For me that the most of people here agree that the DG doesn't need a nerf, it needs a fix. It's the fair thing to do. And the SotS needs no "rework", it's good enough and fair enough just as it is. So the simply thing that the devs need to do is FIX Deep Gash, rollback the Student of the Sword and the most of the GWF will be happy again.
It was important now that community receive a feedback from devs team. We are doing a lot of speculations, and nobody is fine with that GWF nerfs. But what the devs are doing about it?
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
Here's an update on this. Right now, they're still working on tweaking powers and numbers. Again, this is still a work in progress and isn't a confirmation! From what I've seen, HRs and GWFs are seeing some major changes so those characters may be get respec-ed. If I hear anything about other classes or any further changes, I'll let you know.
After split shot was nerfed, this post appeared and the HR received some love, maybe we just need to wait a bit more then we will see something good for the GWF, a rework in the instigator tree, some fix on deep gash and sots, etc.
DG need to fix that in fact does not make any sense one gwf with two feets and vorpal be the king of dps.
but he needs a gross internal boost that will average to excel and at the same time giving the opportunity to those who are "willing to think outside the box" do MUCH more damage than now.
this is what needs gwf and cw not has absolutely nothing to do with it (except for comparative parameters/projections/mimimi).
Besides, nobody knows if the topic is being read. if requests for buff gwf are not met, imagine nerf to another class.
"We wont have a balanced discussion here.
You have GWF fans over exaggerating the dps loss, yes it is substantial, but the way to fix PvE is not by keeping the DPS as it is now."
"The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger that deals a crushing amount of damage no foe is likely to survive."
I do not accept one television without image, and also I'm not willing to want a destroyer that is not the "king of dps" (if well played).
ps: not too pleases me an iv have much control. I'm being impartial.
I am leveling a GWF and the fix to deep gash definitely changes my plans for her. It is a needed fix though. Any feat that low in a tree accessible to to all three trees had no buisness being 40% of the damage of the class just as split shot had no buisness being 40% of the HR's dps. Student of the sword should how ever affect the entire party but it should not stack with other GWF's SoS. For that matter no buff from the same class should ever stack with one another. This would promote more party diversity. Now Sents need a few things high in their tree to add some more threat and a lil more durability for PVE. Looks like the destroyer tree has superb single target burst but will need something in the way of better aoe dps now, again high in the tree. My GWF is only lvl 46 atm and looks like I will be changing her to destroyer as of right now sent and instigator for pve seem lackluster at best.
inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
over exaggerating the DPS loss?
Show me with math how this is anything less than 30% DPS loss.
Here:
Buffs:
20% dmg buff from 20 stacks of dest purpose
7.5% more dmg from Destroyer stacks
up to 20% more dmg on IBS (executioner, based on missing hp)
Nerfs:
-10% raw dmg from SOTS
-45% raw dmg from DG
Current Live Dmg Profile:
50% DG
10% IBS
25% At Wills
10% Other Encounters
5% Misc
=100% live dmg
I've done the number crunching, run the dungeons on PTR, ran the dummy tests, parsed the log files. I know how much the DPS loss is, and i'm being optimistic talking about 100% uptime buffs 100% execute IBS and Ignoring the SOTS nerf, in absolute ideal situations. If you don't believe it, show me the math.
Calculate PTR dmg profile:
DG = 5%
IBS = 10% x 1.2 = 12% x 1.275% = 15.3%
At Wills = 25% x 1.275 = 31.875%
Other Enc = 10% x 1.275 = 12.75%
misc = 5% x 1.275 = 6.375%
Total = 71.3% live dmg, again ignoring the 10% SOTS nerf. Theres a lot of variation in % dmg from at wills, encounters, ibs, etc. go ahead and apply a 10% nerf to the live dmg before calculating the buffs from the patch and try to find a scenario where this isn't a drastic dps nerf.
Show me mathematically how the Destroyer buffs provided applied to 50% of our current dmg makes up for the -55% loss of dmg from SOTS and DG changes, or kindly GTFO out of this thread.
After split shot was nerfed, this post appeared and the HR received some love, maybe we just need to wait a bit more then we will see something good for the GWF, a rework in the instigator tree, some fix on deep gash and sots, etc.
Good, so hope exists? lol
Let's w8 for more news. But I don't like that respec idea. I like to be a IV Sentinel that can do some damage. I really think that the devs have to look again at that chances cause I 100% agree with
I do not accept one television without image, and also I'm not willing to want a destroyer that is not the king of dps (if well played).
So if the GWF is hybrid of a tank and DPS class that's what we have to be able to do.
this is what needs gwf and cw not has absolutely nothing to do with it (except for comparative parameters/projections/mimimi).
As the Devs have specifically said that they want GWF DPS to be in the region of HR/TR DPS then comparison to the current DPS of the CW is perhaps not that productive. As for comparison to HR/TR DPS there are, I believe, some changes to be implemented soon on the test shard for the HR, after which a fair comparison can be made.
Besides, nobody knows if the topic is being read. if requests for buff gwf are not met, imagine nerf to another class.
Actually I think that is why some of the smarter players of 'another class' are being so supportive of GWF not being nerfed into the ground DPS-wise....
Show me with math how this is anything less than 30% DPS loss.
Here:
Buffs:
20% dmg buff from 20 stacks of dest purpose
7.5% more dmg from Destroyer stacks
up to 20% more dmg on IBS (executioner, based on missing hp)
Nerfs:
-10% raw dmg from SOTS
-45% raw dmg from DG
Current Live Dmg Profile:
50% DG
10% IBS
25% At Wills
10% Other Encounters
5% Misc
=100% live dmg
I've done the number crunching, run the dungeons on PTR, ran the dummy tests, parsed the log files. I know how much the DPS loss is, and i'm being optimistic talking about 100% uptime buffs 100% execute IBS and Ignoring the SOTS nerf, in absolute ideal situations. If you don't believe it, show me the math.
Calculate PTR dmg profile:
DG = 5%
IBS = 10% x 1.2 = 12% x 1.275% = 15.3%
At Wills = 25% x 1.275 = 31.875%
Other Enc = 10% x 1.275 = 12.75%
misc = 5% x 1.275 = 6.375%
Total = 71.3% live dmg, again ignoring the 10% SOTS nerf. Theres a lot of variation in % dmg from at wills, encounters, ibs, etc. go ahead and apply a 10% nerf to the live dmg before calculating the buffs from the patch and try to find a scenario where this isn't a drastic dps nerf.
Show me mathematically how the Destroyer buffs provided applied to 50% of our current dmg makes up for the -55% loss of dmg from SOTS and DG changes, or kindly GTFO out of this thread.
i lost i little more:
old reaping strike
new reaping strike:
Regardless few gwf use, is a Atwill currently connected to an important feet, and is the second Atwill that gwf receives in the game.
whether it huge nerf was accidental or not, neither here nor in notes was communicated anything about it.
for this reason I do not care to post logs. waste of time for me.
"Actually I think that is why some of the smarter players of 'another class' are being so supportive of GWF not being nerfed into the ground DPS-wise.... "
Actually ... I'm being very political too; hahha. but psiuuuuuuuuu.
"So if the GWF is hybrid of a tank and DPS class that's what we have to be able to do. "
Yes, the initial description of gwf suggests a dps / hibrid defender. the destroyer is a specification of damage.
I personally think the most original destroyer because of it. is the tree that breaks definitively with the gf (despite this attempt to transform the ibs anvil of doom).
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As the Devs have specifically said that they want GWF DPS to be in the region of HR/TR DPS then comparison to the current DPS of the CW is perhaps not that productive. As for comparison to HR/TR DPS there are, I believe, some changes to be implemented soon on the test shard for the HR, after which a fair comparison can be made.
Actually I think that is why some of the smarter players of 'another class' are being so supportive of GWF not being nerfed into the ground DPS-wise....
No they said they want to balance DPS in the region of HR/TR which is closer to their goal, which is where they want dps to be, and said in the same statement that CW was completely out of line and changes were coming to them as well. the problem is of course that no changes for CW has been made on PTR and they can't gimp all classes but CW dmg for an entire mod and think that's ok.
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
ahn ... changes in reaping strike? changes in power have undermined this Atwill, -14,3% ( his is the only power undermined; the other had an increased in base damage.).
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Thanks, this brings us closer to 80% of our live damage by going pure glass cannon destroyer.
May I suggest a baseline buff of some sort to at wills to make up the remaining 20%, if that is your goal. Either target caps or removing damage DR for hitting multiple targets, or something. Sentinel deals far too little dmg now to be of any use whatsoever pve and most likely pvp too, and instigator, which is actually a decent dmg tree compared to live destroyer, is now pretty much useless.
The baseline GWF is currently suffering from -55% dmg on PTR, and while the destroyer changes makes up for a decent amount of that, all non-destroyer GWF are now far, far worse than they were at any point since open beta began.
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
great add to destroyer's purpose so it would be 40% at max, but I think it would be better if the 20% you added would be put in a form of buff to the aoe at-wills (weapon master strike, wicked strike) instead to at-least give some love to the other trees (sentinel,instigator).
also some of gwf powers remain unattractive in mod3 because they lack dps/buff/utility
punishing charge - the damage is fine because it has 3 charges but those charges are easily wasted because range is too short or the aoe is too narrow
battle fury - the buff is great when you read it but when you replace a damage encounter with this, it suddenly becomes not really great because you will lose dps instead. Either shortening the cooldown or prolonging the buff will help.
reaping strike - even with the buff in mod2, this is still TOO SLOW, gaining max destroyer's purporse stacks, destroyer stacks and weapon master stacks becomes a hard task
steadfast determination - easily becomes obsolete just by purposely tanking up red zones to get determination, may get better if making determination gain possible during unstoppable when this class feature is slotted.
flourish - its counterpart in Iron Vanguard path (Frontline Surge) is a lot better dps (aoe). The dps considering its a single target encounter is too low and the animation is too slow, high chance of wasting the skill when the target is moving or being moved (knockbacks/pushed)
You were never supposed to have 40% of your damage come from a mere first line 5 point feat. But since cryptic left this bug run rampant for months, now you feel entitled to this kind of dps and you will not have DG carrying your way into #1/2 Paingiver anymore.
It's a necessary nerf that in the future may open new alternatives to the class.
I do agree to the SOTS nerf was overdone.
Part of the reason no one wants anything but gwf and cws for dungeons is because of their massive Dps advantage over other classes. If we bring them more in line then the toolset that other classes offer will not be so overshadowed by that stupid paingiver box.
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Thank you very much for the info. I have a couple of thoughts which I hope you might consider:
1) In order to promote group diversity have you considered reverting Student of the Sword so as it stays as a party-wide buff but instead reduce other aspects of the GWF damage so that the GWF's total damage is the same. If such a buff were non-stackable and EVERY class had access to a different one, then this would give an incentive for more rainbow parties rather than just stacking one or two classes.
2) While welcome, and helping to clearly differentiate the Destroyer spec from Sentinel in DPS and survivability, doesn't this mean that the Instigator as it currently stands is now totally, err, irrelevant?
3) You mentioned that you wanted the GWF and HR to of comparable usefulness. My gut feeling is that this buff will put the GWF ahead of the HR in DPS even after the forthcoming HR changes on Preview. However, the HR will retain more 'utility' and potential buffs. Is this a deliberate choice? Have you considered giving each class a 'pure' DPS spec or path, which focuses almost purely on err, DPS, with penalties to the strength of their other class features such as buffs, threat generation, etc. This would enable every class to be able to put out comparable DPS if they wanted to spec purely for that while being relatively easy to balance.
Thank you very much for the info. I have a couple of thoughts which I hope you might consider:
1) In order to promote group diversity have you considered reverting Student of the Sword so as it stays as a party-wide buff but instead reduce other aspects of the GWF damage so that the GWF's total damage is the same.
2) While welcome, and helping to clearly differentiate the Destroyer spec from Sentinel in DPS and survivability, doesn't this mean that the Instigator as it currently stands is now totally, err, irrelevant?
3) You mentioned that you wanted the GWF and HR to of comparable usefulness. My gut feeling is that this buff will put the GWF ahead of the HR in DPS even after the forthcoming HR changes on Preview.
The change to destroyers purpose takes almost all the sting out of the deep gash fix , yes its a fix not a nerf and I play GWF exclusively . Much appreciated and thanks for listening to your players . I put all things on hold w/ my GWF and just started banking AD till I saw where this was going to go , now I feel alright continuing .
1.) I agree completely , now that deep gash has been dealt with we need to find some common ground on SotS , the whole party suffers from its complete (imo) loss .
2.)Instigator has been left out in the cold in a lot of ways but the last feat on their tree is pretty powerful , it won't be to those GWF's who hold down on the shift sprint key leaving the rest of the party behind , but to those who let the GF get aggro or CW to use singularity its still a good feat to have , especially when you also have the combat advantage feat that comes with it . Agreed 22% is less than the 40% but you don't even need to get the stacks you just have to play smart as an instigator was meant to be..contrary to popular opinion gwf isn't a berserker .
3.) Can't compare an HR to a GWF or CW really . If you gave the HR the damage a gwf has now on live it would still come up short for one reason , their damage is cut in half because they spend half their time running (kiting) and the other half shooting ..over and over . I've ran VT and MC countless times and I've only seen one actually switch to his melee weapon when the ads got closer , for some reason everyone has confused Ranger with archer . They could do twice the amount of damage as they do now and they would still be picked last because CC is critical , that is why CW is in demand and HR is avoided like the plague in harder dungeons . To get back on topic though I personally would give up SotS as it stands now to get a little more aggro for Destroyer / Instigator .
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
even with that change we still going be 25%-37% dps nerf at end game level compared to what we was before so nothing to cheer about
with a 10k gs cw no boons no real work or any thing I can out dps my 16k+ min max dps gwf on ptr and this change will not change this I
bet I could do it with 8k gs even on cw just mine happen to have 10k when I tested it
May Be Just add Cw change token in zen store and balance be a lot easyer 5k zen to become cw your make loads as its only pve class in game and people will not want to redo artifacts as you made them bop not BOA+fact you have to redo all boons.
and also threat for sent GWF is hopeless at min in pve
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rogersmarket13Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2014
im a 16k+ GWF and I am almost allways the top dps in the dungens but only by a little bit to CW that are equaly as geared and skilled im not doing 10m more damage than a 19k cw no im usualy around 1m highter than them I don't think they should nerf gwf at all I think they should buff TRs and HR and make there class more viable in partys I take TRs with me cause they have a group buff that's nice and do single target dps really well but when your in a hurry and wanna speed clear its allways best to take gwf and cw cause they do great aoe damage the other 2 classes suck for that but I still take them with me as for GF they have almost 0 use kinda like the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> step child you take him cause you feel bad for them they need serius help making gwf do less damage wint help them to get more groups what I think should be nerfed is the avatar of war set I do not use it cause I like the MC armor set better I think I do more damage in the long run with it than AoW I feel they need to seriously cut back on the buff it gives people and that would make more gwf use the other 2 armor sets or put the effect from aow and the effect of the dread VT set change them around make it worth while to camp that armor set as it sits right now anyone can just buy/farm tier 2 armor and hen have the best you can get for the class that's not right in my opinion and for the DCs there sets need a look at too the tier 1 setbonus is better than all the rest in conclusion please don't hit my gwf with the nerf stick shes all I got
im a 16k+ GWF and I am almost allways the top dps in the dungens but only by a little bit to CW that are equaly as geared and skilled im not doing 10m more damage than a 19k cw no im usualy around 1m highter than them
...
in conclusion please don't hit my gwf with the nerf stick shes all I got
Well if your perfectly played 16K GWF is constantly outDPSing a perfectly played 19K CW (that's an impressive GS for a CW BTW) then I don't know how you can possibly expect the GWF not to be nerfed. I noticed you only have ONE previous post, so in case you don't know, it appears (to me) that the Devs are more likely to take serious note if you can provide video and damage parses of you and your friend clearing dungeons both on Live and Test realms.
Sadly, if you are outDPSing an equally well-played CW that outgears you by 3K GS then I am afraid that your post, after of course you have provided proof in the form of parses and videos, might have the opposite effect of your STATED desire of convincing the Devs not to nerf the GWF....
im a 16k+ GWF and I am almost allways the top dps in the dungens but only by a little bit to CW that are equaly as geared and skilled im not doing 10m more damage than a 19k cw no im usualy around 1m highter than them I don't think they should nerf gwf at all I think they should buff TRs and HR and make there class more viable in partys I take TRs with me cause they have a group buff that's nice and do single target dps really well but when your in a hurry and wanna speed clear its allways best to take gwf and cw cause they do great aoe damage the other 2 classes suck for that but I still take them with me as for GF they have almost 0 use kinda like the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> step child you take him cause you feel bad for them they need serius help making gwf do less damage wint help them to get more groups what I think should be nerfed is the avatar of war set I do not use it cause I like the MC armor set better I think I do more damage in the long run with it than AoW I feel they need to seriously cut back on the buff it gives people and that would make more gwf use the other 2 armor sets or put the effect from aow and the effect of the dread VT set change them around make it worth while to camp that armor set as it sits right now anyone can just buy/farm tier 2 armor and hen have the best you can get for the class that's not right in my opinion and for the DCs there sets need a look at too the tier 1 setbonus is better than all the rest in conclusion please don't hit my gwf with the nerf stick shes all I got
Wow, that wall of text.
Well if your "1m higher than them" is referring to the ending boss battle it might be possible, but if you're talking about a whole dungeon run then it might be your fantasy or the CW is just plain bad.
And no GWF's not getting nerfed, it's getting fixed and buffed.
And if you want to request for better buffs, please provide constructive feedback and learn to split paragraphs.
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well if your perfectly played 16K GWF is constantly outDPSing a perfectly played 19K CW (that's an impressive GS for a CW BTW) then I don't know how you can possibly expect the GWF not to be nerfed. I noticed you only have ONE previous post, so in case you don't know, it appears (to me) that the Devs are more likely to take serious note if you can provide video and damage parses of you and your friend clearing dungeons both on Live and Test realms.
Sadly, if you are outDPSing an equally well-played CW that outgears you by 3K GS then I am afraid that your post, after of course you have provided proof in the form of parses and videos, might have the opposite effect of your STATED desire of convincing the Devs not to nerf the GWF....
I don't think he expressed himself well. What he tried to say is, while exaggerating, that he can't outdps tough CWs as much as some people think. I'm pretty sure optimal dps CW builds don't even reach 19k gs...
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
i do not see this as good idea it would be better if u just improved at wills by 20% and aoe encounters damage and target caps if i understand u well last destroyer feat will improve our damage by 40% and this just made bad situation even worse now instigator or sentinel will be even worse choice they they becomed after 20% from destroyer
Comments
You have GWF fans over exaggerating the dps loss, yes it is substantial, but the way to fix PvE is not by keeping the DPS as it is now.
DPS needs a nerf all around the table.
The next class to receive a huge DPS nerf should be the CW. If the point is to move away from the DPS meta at all.
Nerf Shard avalanche, Eye of the Storm and Sudden storm DPS, and we can have a real CONTROL wizard, not a DPS mage.
After that, every team will be forced to have damage mitigation, aggro control and support if they want to tackle the most difficult encounters.
Well maybe, but given that the loss seems to be figured from ACTUAL parses, what other less 'biased' sources can you possibly want?
It was important now that community receive a feedback from devs team. We are doing a lot of speculations, and nobody is fine with that GWF nerfs. But what the devs are doing about it?
After split shot was nerfed, this post appeared and the HR received some love, maybe we just need to wait a bit more then we will see something good for the GWF, a rework in the instigator tree, some fix on deep gash and sots, etc.
but he needs a gross internal boost that will average to excel and at the same time giving the opportunity to those who are "willing to think outside the box" do MUCH more damage than now.
this is what needs gwf and cw not has absolutely nothing to do with it (except for comparative parameters/projections/mimimi).
Besides, nobody knows if the topic is being read. if requests for buff gwf are not met, imagine nerf to another class.
You have GWF fans over exaggerating the dps loss, yes it is substantial, but the way to fix PvE is not by keeping the DPS as it is now."
"The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger that deals a crushing amount of damage no foe is likely to survive."
I do not accept one television without image, and also I'm not willing to want a destroyer that is not the "king of dps" (if well played).
ps: not too pleases me an iv have much control. I'm being impartial.
Show me with math how this is anything less than 30% DPS loss.
Here:
Buffs:
20% dmg buff from 20 stacks of dest purpose
7.5% more dmg from Destroyer stacks
up to 20% more dmg on IBS (executioner, based on missing hp)
Nerfs:
-10% raw dmg from SOTS
-45% raw dmg from DG
Current Live Dmg Profile:
50% DG
10% IBS
25% At Wills
10% Other Encounters
5% Misc
=100% live dmg
I've done the number crunching, run the dungeons on PTR, ran the dummy tests, parsed the log files. I know how much the DPS loss is, and i'm being optimistic talking about 100% uptime buffs 100% execute IBS and Ignoring the SOTS nerf, in absolute ideal situations. If you don't believe it, show me the math.
Calculate PTR dmg profile:
DG = 5%
IBS = 10% x 1.2 = 12% x 1.275% = 15.3%
At Wills = 25% x 1.275 = 31.875%
Other Enc = 10% x 1.275 = 12.75%
misc = 5% x 1.275 = 6.375%
Total = 71.3% live dmg, again ignoring the 10% SOTS nerf. Theres a lot of variation in % dmg from at wills, encounters, ibs, etc. go ahead and apply a 10% nerf to the live dmg before calculating the buffs from the patch and try to find a scenario where this isn't a drastic dps nerf.
Show me mathematically how the Destroyer buffs provided applied to 50% of our current dmg makes up for the -55% loss of dmg from SOTS and DG changes, or kindly GTFO out of this thread.
Good, so hope exists? lol
Let's w8 for more news. But I don't like that respec idea. I like to be a IV Sentinel that can do some damage. I really think that the devs have to look again at that chances cause I 100% agree with
So if the GWF is hybrid of a tank and DPS class that's what we have to be able to do.
As the Devs have specifically said that they want GWF DPS to be in the region of HR/TR DPS then comparison to the current DPS of the CW is perhaps not that productive. As for comparison to HR/TR DPS there are, I believe, some changes to be implemented soon on the test shard for the HR, after which a fair comparison can be made.
Actually I think that is why some of the smarter players of 'another class' are being so supportive of GWF not being nerfed into the ground DPS-wise....
i lost i little more:
old reaping strike
new reaping strike:
Regardless few gwf use, is a Atwill currently connected to an important feet, and is the second Atwill that gwf receives in the game.
whether it huge nerf was accidental or not, neither here nor in notes was communicated anything about it.
for this reason I do not care to post logs. waste of time for me.
"Actually I think that is why some of the smarter players of 'another class' are being so supportive of GWF not being nerfed into the ground DPS-wise.... "
Actually ... I'm being very political too; hahha. but psiuuuuuuuuu.
"So if the GWF is hybrid of a tank and DPS class that's what we have to be able to do. "
Yes, the initial description of gwf suggests a dps / hibrid defender. the destroyer is a specification of damage.
I personally think the most original destroyer because of it. is the tree that breaks definitively with the gf (despite this attempt to transform the ibs anvil of doom).
No they said they want to balance DPS in the region of HR/TR which is closer to their goal, which is where they want dps to be, and said in the same statement that CW was completely out of line and changes were coming to them as well. the problem is of course that no changes for CW has been made on PTR and they can't gimp all classes but CW dmg for an entire mod and think that's ok.
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
GWFs be all like:
ahn ... changes in reaping strike? changes in power have undermined this Atwill, -14,3% ( his is the only power undermined; the other had an increased in base damage.).
Hopefully this Friday, but that is all subject to change. So.....soon (tm)?
Thanks, this brings us closer to 80% of our live damage by going pure glass cannon destroyer.
May I suggest a baseline buff of some sort to at wills to make up the remaining 20%, if that is your goal. Either target caps or removing damage DR for hitting multiple targets, or something. Sentinel deals far too little dmg now to be of any use whatsoever pve and most likely pvp too, and instigator, which is actually a decent dmg tree compared to live destroyer, is now pretty much useless.
The baseline GWF is currently suffering from -55% dmg on PTR, and while the destroyer changes makes up for a decent amount of that, all non-destroyer GWF are now far, far worse than they were at any point since open beta began.
great add to destroyer's purpose so it would be 40% at max, but I think it would be better if the 20% you added would be put in a form of buff to the aoe at-wills (weapon master strike, wicked strike) instead to at-least give some love to the other trees (sentinel,instigator).
also some of gwf powers remain unattractive in mod3 because they lack dps/buff/utility
It's a necessary nerf that in the future may open new alternatives to the class.
I do agree to the SOTS nerf was overdone.
Part of the reason no one wants anything but gwf and cws for dungeons is because of their massive Dps advantage over other classes. If we bring them more in line then the toolset that other classes offer will not be so overshadowed by that stupid paingiver box.
Thank you very much for the info. I have a couple of thoughts which I hope you might consider:
1) In order to promote group diversity have you considered reverting Student of the Sword so as it stays as a party-wide buff but instead reduce other aspects of the GWF damage so that the GWF's total damage is the same. If such a buff were non-stackable and EVERY class had access to a different one, then this would give an incentive for more rainbow parties rather than just stacking one or two classes.
2) While welcome, and helping to clearly differentiate the Destroyer spec from Sentinel in DPS and survivability, doesn't this mean that the Instigator as it currently stands is now totally, err, irrelevant?
3) You mentioned that you wanted the GWF and HR to of comparable usefulness. My gut feeling is that this buff will put the GWF ahead of the HR in DPS even after the forthcoming HR changes on Preview. However, the HR will retain more 'utility' and potential buffs. Is this a deliberate choice? Have you considered giving each class a 'pure' DPS spec or path, which focuses almost purely on err, DPS, with penalties to the strength of their other class features such as buffs, threat generation, etc. This would enable every class to be able to put out comparable DPS if they wanted to spec purely for that while being relatively easy to balance.
The change to destroyers purpose takes almost all the sting out of the deep gash fix , yes its a fix not a nerf and I play GWF exclusively . Much appreciated and thanks for listening to your players . I put all things on hold w/ my GWF and just started banking AD till I saw where this was going to go , now I feel alright continuing .
1.) I agree completely , now that deep gash has been dealt with we need to find some common ground on SotS , the whole party suffers from its complete (imo) loss .
2.)Instigator has been left out in the cold in a lot of ways but the last feat on their tree is pretty powerful , it won't be to those GWF's who hold down on the shift sprint key leaving the rest of the party behind , but to those who let the GF get aggro or CW to use singularity its still a good feat to have , especially when you also have the combat advantage feat that comes with it . Agreed 22% is less than the 40% but you don't even need to get the stacks you just have to play smart as an instigator was meant to be..contrary to popular opinion gwf isn't a berserker .
3.) Can't compare an HR to a GWF or CW really . If you gave the HR the damage a gwf has now on live it would still come up short for one reason , their damage is cut in half because they spend half their time running (kiting) and the other half shooting ..over and over . I've ran VT and MC countless times and I've only seen one actually switch to his melee weapon when the ads got closer , for some reason everyone has confused Ranger with archer . They could do twice the amount of damage as they do now and they would still be picked last because CC is critical , that is why CW is in demand and HR is avoided like the plague in harder dungeons . To get back on topic though I personally would give up SotS as it stands now to get a little more aggro for Destroyer / Instigator .
even with that change we still going be 25%-37% dps nerf at end game level compared to what we was before so nothing to cheer about
with a 10k gs cw no boons no real work or any thing I can out dps my 16k+ min max dps gwf on ptr and this change will not change this I
bet I could do it with 8k gs even on cw just mine happen to have 10k when I tested it
May Be Just add Cw change token in zen store and balance be a lot easyer 5k zen to become cw your make loads as its only pve class in game and people will not want to redo artifacts as you made them bop not BOA+fact you have to redo all boons.
and also threat for sent GWF is hopeless at min in pve
Well if your perfectly played 16K GWF is constantly outDPSing a perfectly played 19K CW (that's an impressive GS for a CW BTW) then I don't know how you can possibly expect the GWF not to be nerfed. I noticed you only have ONE previous post, so in case you don't know, it appears (to me) that the Devs are more likely to take serious note if you can provide video and damage parses of you and your friend clearing dungeons both on Live and Test realms.
Sadly, if you are outDPSing an equally well-played CW that outgears you by 3K GS then I am afraid that your post, after of course you have provided proof in the form of parses and videos, might have the opposite effect of your STATED desire of convincing the Devs not to nerf the GWF....
Wow, that wall of text.
Well if your "1m higher than them" is referring to the ending boss battle it might be possible, but if you're talking about a whole dungeon run then it might be your fantasy or the CW is just plain bad.
And no GWF's not getting nerfed, it's getting fixed and buffed.
And if you want to request for better buffs, please provide constructive feedback and learn to split paragraphs.
I don't think he expressed himself well. What he tried to say is, while exaggerating, that he can't outdps tough CWs as much as some people think. I'm pretty sure optimal dps CW builds don't even reach 19k gs...
i do not see this as good idea it would be better if u just improved at wills by 20% and aoe encounters damage and target caps if i understand u well last destroyer feat will improve our damage by 40% and this just made bad situation even worse now instigator or sentinel will be even worse choice they they becomed after 20% from destroyer
Then maybe you can finally outdps a 19k CW with a 15k Gwf...?
Even if this exist...