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Split shot damage reduced by 45%, what does the future hold for us?

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  • djarkaandjarkaan Member Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's sad that a class rely so much on one skill.
    Instead of buffing other skills like electric shot they nerf the skill that made the class.
    The class is doomed to extinction after everyone tried the new paragon path.
    Even if the new path is successful, what happens to the original stormrider?
  • adernathadernath Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I am glad people finally realise how favouritism works in this game towards the CW. Yes, probably everyone playing the game knows CWs are the absolute masters of PVE, but it's not only that. What frustrates people is the fact that CW always dodges big nerfs and major reworks. We keep hoping for the day when "need CW" spam stops and other classes get a chance to show up but every time it's just empty promises.
    You realize that all this is offtopic? Better start a new thread with suggestions, and I am willing to discuss them with you.
    Suggestions to improve NW:
    - Dualspec
    - Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
    - Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
    - Armory
    - make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    After seeing the changes to split shot on Preview It's like going from a 'street Sweeper' shotgun to a 5 shot burst paintball gun. Changes in tactics are needed.
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    reiromani wrote: »
    I knew I, as a ranger player, was screwed when I saw the final scores at the end of a CTA showing the two CWs having taken 0(zero, nil, nadda, none) damage while leading the damage dealt department over a GWF, a HR, and a TR.

    Those were VERY BAD CWs you played with. Good PvE CW will usually take lots of damage because he needs to be close to the fight.
  • xushin7xushin7 Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    After seeing the changes to split shot on Preview It's like going from a 'street Sweeper' shotgun to a 5 shot burst paintball gun. Changes in tactics are needed.

    No its more like a clogged super soaker.
  • overddriveoverddrive Member Posts: 722 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    At level 43 and I am just really learning how to use combat well in sync with ranged. 45% decrease to split shot is way over the top, but to be perfectly honest, effectively switching between combat and ranged provides for some rather sick aggressive action that I am not sure can be matched by other classes. Like rapid shifting combos. Having split strike and marauders rush is better than lunging strike and threatening rush. Nothing is going to get away from that. Thornward+constricting arrow+rush+aimed strike+steel breeze+dodge back+splitshot....that is a lot of damage to a lot of enemies in pvp, all within a few seconds. It clears pugs off nodes faster than you can say "pomocy".

    And I am a nub hr. I am sure there are some truly demented combos between ranged and combat.

    How do you beat that gwf? He doesnt know where the hell you are or where your going to be, thats how. The stamina gain from steel breeze means infinite dodges when you need them.

    So I guess I am saying that altogether, Hunter Ranger is a sick sick class played as a hybrid. Which is how I think it was meant to be played. I am making a wild gamble and thinking that the split shot nerf is an attempt to get away from the "stand and spam split shot" type of HR play. In other words, get up in their grill.

    Maybe my enthusiasm will die down by lvl 60 when I can longer make a mockery of gwfs trying desperately to figure out where to aim their strikes, or when CWs are no longer easy fodder for constricting arrow-rush-aimed strike, or when tr's are fairly easily face tanked, and dc's are just padding for headhunter. But for now its blast.
    PanzerJäger HR Hybrid
    Jugger Conq GF
    ....
  • instantjaksinstantjaks Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 32
    edited March 2014
    So let me get this straight ^^ TR gets to keep abusing of perma-stealth (and lets all consider the open world pvp area), GWF gets extraboosts to make them even more OPd than they already are for PvP, CW watch everything happen from far very far away (= and HR gets the only encounter useful for melee spec and the only worth while AoE that actually is good for something for both melee/archery specs *nerfed*. It is ridiculous. Vines should be getting the nerf, i am willing to confess to it. But Fox? Split? You gotta be kidding me! Fox is the only reason why HR can go melee to begin with ^^
  • bulletdancerbulletdancer Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    deliberate murdering of the HR, with NO EXPLANATION, couple with this so called pve/pvp module, i will quit, and never support a company that pulls this on its players.
    hr is my class, ranged combat is my play style, it is the way I WANT to play. yet this is done without any form of communication, without coming to the players to discuss what is happening. shell shocked!!! and knee jerk reactions will fly, pissed players will flourish, yet they remain quiet, non communicative.

    truthfully, its either scream, yell and threaten until we are heard, or leave and not support the game. well, looks like they are giving players no choice but to leave and stop supporting them. because, they might be "listening" doesn't help if they are not communicating.

    as far as these mod ninja's go, they are adding to the problem deleting posts so devs do not see the real anger this behavior is causing; which causes even more anger. it is a circle effect which gains more anger and fustration the longer it is allowed to continue. and to stop the bleeding would only take a dev to talk to us, explain to us and listen to us.

    balance changes are expected, balance for the sake of PVP is wrong and unfair. deliberate nerfing a class into nothing without explanation, goes beyond logical reason. considering they themselves said that HR's and TR's are at the level of balance they want all classes o.0
    this nerf, and the upcoming pvp module. just shows me incompetence, and shakes any sort of confidence i may have had in there ability to create a game.
  • instantjaksinstantjaks Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 32
    edited March 2014
    Ofc, we all feel the pain, specially when they do this kind of things to players that have already spent months of their time and money on building a strong HR, only to see it reducted to a worthless class for both pvp and pve. Meanwhile, CW and GWF are only getting stronger, and TR will keep abusing stealth on helpless HRs that dont even have fox to rely on for close combat anymore. And it isnt even that much of a life saver as it is. And new path? Pfff, as if HR needed even more support abilities. But hey, nothing to see here, we are just active players complaining.-
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Ofc, we all feel the pain, specially when they do this kind of things to players that have already spent months of their time and money on building a strong HR, only to see it reducted to a worthless class for both pvp and pve. Meanwhile, CW and GWF are only getting stronger, and TR will keep abusing stealth on helpless HRs that dont even have fox to rely on for close combat anymore. And it isnt even that much of a life saver as it is. And new path? Pfff, as if HR needed even more support abilities. But hey, nothing to see here, we are just active players complaining.-

    Err, GWFs are getting at LEAST a 40% DPS nerf, maybe up to 60% at the highest levels:

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635191-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes&p=7606111&viewfull=1#post7606111

    which is even worse then the HR nerfs. Of course, they were in a better place to start with, but after this GWFs are likely to be around the same level, if not worse then the HR and TR.
  • xushin7xushin7 Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    Err, GWFs are getting at LEAST a 40% DPS nerf, maybe up to 60% at the highest levels:

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635191-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes&p=7606111&viewfull=1#post7606111

    which is even worse then the HR nerfs. Of course, they were in a better place to start with, but after this GWFs are likely to be around the same level, if not worse then the HR and TR.

    there is absolutely no way they would be anything worse or equal to the way HR's are right now. Not even close. Not close at all.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xushin7 wrote: »
    there is absolutely no way they would be anything worse or equal to the way HR's are right now. Not even close. Not close at all.

    You forget that the GWF was pre-mod 2, the worst class in the history of this game. Some posters are suggesting that this nerf might even put them back to that level, so yes, that would be worse than HRs...
  • bulletdancerbulletdancer Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    actually GWF's from beta where not to bad, they had great mobility, decent tanking, and hit hard. they had good tools.

    but HR, has had to rely on 2 skills to be competive in this game, because none of our other powers are worth a ****. when the game is all about control and fast dps a clas that only has 2 skills as a crutch will not suceed.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    actually GWF's from beta where not to bad, they had great mobility, decent tanking, and hit hard. they had good tools.

    Technically that was Closed Beta. Just before 'Open Beta' the GWF got hit HARD by one of the largest nerf bats ever seen....

    And from 'Open Beta' till Module 2, they were one of the worst classes in any MMO ever....
  • bulletdancerbulletdancer Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    at least the GWFcould still kill things, and at least solo most areas.
    now the hr is dieing to trash mobs!
    seriously broke the class into oblivion
  • instantjaksinstantjaks Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 32
    edited March 2014
    Lets not forget the encounter/at will that are getting the nerf are the only ones that are actually useful. Fox is the only encounter a melee HR can use to do some decent dmg (and that is when u only have 1 target, multiple targets barely notice the dmg) and split shot for both archery and melee. So if Fox wont hit a target more than once, just what is it going to be good for then? What is a melee HR supposed to hit people with? Mean looks? ^^ This kind of actions will get this game killed within a year, people are already getting disapointed. And btw, there is absolutely no evidence to support what is said up there, anyone who has had to fight a GWF knows that they are extremely OPd in both dmg and and survivability. Just sayin.
  • xushin7xushin7 Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    Even in pre module 2. GWF's were not bad at all.
    And they only performed bad in PVE because thier aoe damage was not all that great and they didnthave much tanking ability.
    Where in pvp. They were just fine and even then, GWF's had alot more things going for them than just damage, they were not ment to be the best of one particular thing but ment to feel various roles depending on how they play and can do that decently to help out the party.

    Everything the GWF has was useful. Everything. The least useful thing they had was Battle Fury.
  • ricorosebudricorosebud Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This is an important topic to many people. From the recent graphic, it seems the Hunter Ranger is the most played class. So any proposed changes to the way they are played is important. I find it a bit sad and questionable that this thread was essentially buried where few people can see it. (I had to dig to find it.) It tells me two things: That Cryptic/PWE are aware of the negative feedback and are going ahead with the nerfs regardless, and further are actively trying to discourage discussion on the topic.
    Sketch. For quite some time, tactics form this company have made me raise an eyebrow. One day many players are going to get fed up with the way they do things, no matter how fun the games are. I think they quickly approach that point.
    Re-think the Hunter Ranger nerfs. The community is trying to tell you something Cryptic. Listen to what the customer wants, you'll make money that way.
    And give us some feedback instead of hiding threads.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2014
    HRs really need a good AOE skill, PVE HR is just not as good as other classes.

    I don't think split shot was the answer due to its PVP effects, but still HR needs a good AOE skill
  • savraisavrai Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Having spent plenty of hours on the preview server, I have to say, the damage reduction is fine. Don't forget that other skills got useful buffs. If you're 'relying' on 2 powers to play, then you're missing out on some really fun gameplay.

    Every power on my tray except for rapid shot is an AoE. Just position yourself and the mobs correctly.

    Not the end of the world, not game breaking.
    *Legit Community*

    Heather - Ranger
    James - Paladin
    Jet - Warlock
    Royal - Cleric
    Gray - Rogue
    Red - Wizard
    Ios - Barbarian
  • instantjaksinstantjaks Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 32
    edited March 2014
    This is an important topic to many people. From the recent graphic, it seems the Hunter Ranger is the most played class. So any proposed changes to the way they are played is important. I find it a bit sad and questionable that this thread was essentially buried where few people can see it. (I had to dig to find it.) It tells me two things: That Cryptic/PWE are aware of the negative feedback and are going ahead with the nerfs regardless, and further are actively trying to discourage discussion on the topic.
    Sketch. For quite some time, tactics form this company have made me raise an eyebrow. One day many players are going to get fed up with the way they do things, no matter how fun the games are. I think they quickly approach that point.
    Re-think the Hunter Ranger nerfs. The community is trying to tell you something Cryptic. Listen to what the customer wants, you'll make money that way.
    And give us some feedback instead of hiding threads.


    This is so true, hell ive been playing for like 4 months only and im already happy I didnt give them any important amount of money yet. I already know of many players who are leaving if these nerfs come into the game and Cryptic keeps hiding threads and getting people banned from the forums for saying what they dont want others to read. They have put so much effort in developing a good game, and are now putting a lot more in killing it as fast as they can.-

    On a side note, the nerf is not going to kill HR entirely for PvE, but it is definately turning it into a very useless class for PvP. Now that an open world pvp area is being implemented, why would I(or any other player who maine HR) would want to stay in this game anyway? HR has been nerfed more times than i can remember now, and it just keeps getting worst. For the amount of time ive spent in building one, this is simply not acceptable.
  • b2owb2ow Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    heiltdo1 wrote: »
    Hello,
    For details about the future HR path and skill balances go to:
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635631-Curse-of-Icewind-Dale-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-15-20140314a-5

    Reading into our skill balances i found this:
    "Split Shot damage has been reduced by about 45%"

    Expected in my opinion, a bit severe tho...

    Often i complained because split shot was so extremely powerful, that made it impossible for me to take it out of my At will bar. But after trying out other powers like, "electric shot" i did realize, they are way underpowered at the moment.

    The new path seems like a fun supportish semi dps build that would probably be super awesome with nature, but in a game where you don't need anything more than arcane singularity and DPS, it's kinda pointless.

    I'm probably making conclusions too early, i hope the power rework somehow makes others At wills better, and somehow shifts us from this CW, DPS meta.

    I have a level 60 HR on both Neverwinter and the test server. Nerfing split shot in no way improved the HR and made killing even easy stuff more complicated since you do little damage while they happily beat the snot out of you. I am stretching things a little here, but to make a point. The HR is no longer an enjoyable class to play........
  • dungeonxxxxxdungeonxxxxx Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I completely agree with most of people wrote on this forum about HR incoming update. Cryptic please don't nerf HR !!!!! HR is a DPS like GWF and CW but currently is difficult to deal the same damage of this class. Have a look in the chat looking for group, and you never find somebody who looks for HR for dungeon while GWF and CW are very requested! Why? Because CW and GWF right now are more powerfull than HR!!!!! The incoming nerf for GWF is less heavy than the one for HR and CW will not suffer nerf!!! This means that HR will be completely useless as DPS!!!!! The new paragorn for HR could be quite good for nature build, so HR could be played as support player but it will be certainly weaker than DC!!!
    In conclusion if cryptic doesn't change idea HR will be completely useless as DPS, and a if you try to play as support player HR will be a weak "DC" buffer/debuffer with a little bit more DPS than DC but les less less than GWF/CW/TR......It means HR class will be completely useless!!!! Split shot, fox shift and stormstep action are milestone in HR build, don't nerf them!!!!!
    Maybe cryptic wants nerf split to force player to get into melee often and use more encounter spell in different way.....But to achieve this goal the way is not nerf split shot,fox,ecc but give more defence stat to HR and power to the other encounter which right now are very unpowered!!!! I Play HR a lot, i'm unhappy about the fact that CW and GWF generally deals more damage than me and i'm unhappy too because for me as every HR is very difficult to find a party for dungeon, especially Valindra tower and castle never...... I heve not changed class because i like HR and especially because i believed that with the new module cryptic would have nerf CW/GWF and power up HR skill or at least add other usefull....It seems i was a dreamer, but here i announce my prophecy:
    "Cryptic has not to nerf HR otherwise this class will die and a lot of HR player (more than 70% HR player) will disinstall NWN with a consequent loss of about 15% NWN player".
    Decrease number of NWN player is the cryptic goal? If the cryptic goal of this update is to have less NWN player, dear crypic you are going to accomplish yor mission!
    DON'T DESTROY HR CLASS WITH THIS UPCOMING NERF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • tajah23tajah23 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 32
    edited April 2014
    Like everyone else, when I first read "45%" I freaked out. However, after considering everything that's going into module 3, I kind of understand it. Here's why:


    In EVERY MMO that has featured open-world pvp, a certain kind of group has been able to dominate against overwhelming odds.. The bomb group. My guild has run 12-man groups in games like Warhammer & DAoC that could wipe -hundreds- of players, and by no means are we the only ones.

    Imagine a mod 2-era squad made up of 6 gwf, 6 HR, 3 dc, and 3 perma TR against a mob of undergeared players. (Just an example - I don't intend to debate ideal group makeups here) Those HR just need to spam split shot while their front line guys keep the pressure off. Zerg = wiped. A coordinated group should always be able to beat a mindless mashup of noobs, but having a single spammable skill that powerful isn't balanced.

    I believe Cryptic has chosen to balance open-world pvp as a higher priority than arenas, and probably rightfully so. Overpowered AOE in arena is only marginally useful. I'm ok with that.

    /flamesuit on. I just wanted to present a different point of view.
  • arsonall82arsonall82 Member Posts: 151 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2014
    So you're saying that split shot has no purpose in PvE content, and that the only decision to reduce its damage is based on open world PvP content in one end-game area?
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,464 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    And if you have ZERO interest in PvP?
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • utuwerutuwer Member Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I would disagree that split shot nerf has any relationship with the new open world pvp in mod 3.

    The 1st reason is HR is not the top dog of AoE dps in PvE even with the current split shot. It is CW's singularity and shards of avalanche, aka the meatball. If you have ever seen CW's meatball crit hit for 100k+ and knock down the whole pack of t2 dungeon mobs at the same time, you would think HR should get a huge huge huge buff in AoE dps rather than a nerf. A controller class hits harder than any striker class by such a large margin...Really? Also don't forget GWFs with their insane tankiness and huge potential of AoE dps (currently just behind CW) which will get buffed further more in mod 3.

    The 2nd reason is the developers' vision for open world PvP. They even allow PvE potions, active companions and their bonus in open world PvP, which obviously lead to extremely imbalance between players. Thinking of facing off a pack of players with 5 purple pets, including stones with 6 extra rank 10 enchantments gives me shiver down to my spine. Compare to those imbalance things, split shot is like a rock thrown into an ocean.
    You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I believe Cryptic has chosen to balance open-world pvp as a higher priority than arenas, and probably rightfully so. Overpowered AOE in arena is only marginally useful. I'm ok with that.


    ^^
    Exactly this.

    Everybody that played pvp in open zones/worlds understand the devastating effect high aoe dam does in form of focused fire from distance.
    And i think you are absolutly on the spot with this analyzis.

    And if you have ZERO interest in PvP?
    Even if you are not interrested in pvp cryptic still has to take it into consideration because its a part of the game.

    Now that said the same would go for perma hide tr and cws or that reasoning will fall short as the inbalance will still exist and the only one class that would suffer is the rangers...
  • tajah23tajah23 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 32
    edited April 2014
    Putting words into my mouth, arsonall82? I don't believe any more than you that the open world pvp impact is the only factor that resulted in the nerf. From a PvE standpoint, the hunter is already in a bad place. Public perception is already bad. There are too many hunters, and as "ranged dps," we should be able to fill the CW slot. Unfortunately, this game doesn't rely on the traditional MMO roles, so our rdps apples are constantly compared the the CONTROL wizard oranges. However, experienced players recognize the potential a GOOD hunter brings to their group.

    IMO, the changes being made to our other skills -roughly- make up for the loss of split-shot spam. Hybrids are traditionally very technical classes, and these changes bring us more inline to that expectation.


    @husting1 - whatever our individual preferences are, the studio has to balance for ALL aspects of the game. Personally, I rarely do anything BUT pvp, but if something is changed due to PvE complications, I adapt & move on.
  • tajah23tajah23 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 32
    edited April 2014
    [QUOTE=utuwer;7667881

    Also don't forget GWFs with their insane tankiness and huge potential of AoE dps (currently just behind CW) which will get buffed further more in mod 3.

    .[/QUOTE]


    From what I've read/experienced GWF can keep their insane damage OR tankiness, but the trees have been realigned to make having both much more difficult.
This discussion has been closed.