But so many people come to the forums complaining and QQing because they're butthurt that people that have better gear than them and are more skilled than them killed them so easily. And the devs actually listen.
I've run with EoA and members of EoA often and I am friends with them man. I am not undergeared. I am very geared with very high mitigation (SE ignores mitigation so that's a non-issue). I run premades every day.
I can understand what being nerfed feels like, and I understand your points. I'm not arguing the other abilities or talking about the other nerfs. SE is crazy right now. There is no way someone should be able to take 75% of my 40k health in one shot (alone on a node without extra players or outside debufs) with bilethorn as their enchant.
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willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited March 2014
SE is crazy right now
40k isn't crazy when it was consistently hitting 200k+ on bosses during open beta with no debuffs and 9k GS. Oh that's right, balance off 2 maps the entire class. March 30th come faster.
I can only imagine that the true whales in this game play only PVP, since Cryptic consistently only balances off that small minute part of the game.
I've said it a zillion times. Just frickin' get rid of the "undodgeable" bullcrap and its fine.
If I'm hit with a well-timed SE that I didn't see coming, couldn't react fast enough, and that outright kills me -- then fine. My bad. I should be dead by all means, rightfully so. No biggy.
However, when I get killed by a doofus of a rogue whom I've sent to the campfire countless times in a fight, clearly shown I'm the superior guy, and then the guy respawns and goes *vroooommmm* and floats up and there's no frickin' way I can get away from that despite seeing the activation and trying what the hell ever to get away from it... this is bullchi*.
Currently, the only way of directly countering SE with another TR (at least GFs can block it..), is by hitting the guy wanting to land SE with Courage Breaker. Since CB is slower than SE in activation, you need to pray and hope the other guy is stupid enough to activate SE after being hit with CB and blow it.
Dodging is impossible... deflection impossible... CC impossible (since TRs don't have any fast activation CCs outside of stealth)... CC is also meaningless since the AP is still there.... simply a matter of the guy reactivating it again and again until no interruption... even going into untargetable Bloodbath daily doesn't stop from getting hit by it. Man.. what the hell??
If the MI TRs want to land that 30k "I win" power, then fine. I have no intention of calling for a damage nerf. All I want is that those wielding that ridiculous power actually work to hit square with it.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I've said it a zillion times. Just frickin' get rid of the "undodgeable" bullcrap and its fine.
i'm also fine with that since i rather use whirlwind of blades to hit squishies anyways. quicker activation, hits multiple people (and i am frequently fighting while outnumbered), does 10k on crits, and difficult to dodge it since it has no telegraph.
execute is just my response to someone that simply won't die easily :P (which mostly involves gwf's and some clerics). clerics only have 2 dodges + faster stamina regen from 1 feat path so it shouldn't be that difficult to time it on them and gwf's can't dodge so that's that.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but here's how I view it.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 600,000,000 damage... I die.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 15,000 damage... I die.
Who cares? I gotta be missing something here?
Explain to me please.
You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking:
"I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me and..."
- I try to run, the range is frickin' 30ft, I die
- I try to dodge, can't be dodged, I die.
- I try to deflect it, can't be deflected, I die.
- I go into a daily that makes me invincible and register no damage, I still get hit, I die
- I CC'd him mid activation, he just uses it again, I die
...
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking:
"I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me and..."
- I try to run, the range is frickin' 30ft, I die
- I try to dodge, can't be dodged, I die.
- I try to deflect it, can't be deflected, I die.
- I go into a daily that makes me invincible and register no damage, I still get hit, I die
- I CC'd him mid activation, he just uses it again, I die
...
I thought you were calling for a damage nerf when I made my first post. If it's not the damage you have a problem with but instead you take issue with the mechanics of the ability (specifically the ignores defenses part) it's been that way since beta, they would have to change the entire functionality of the ability and I don't think that is something that is called for.
I thought you were calling for a damage nerf when I made my first post. If it's not the damage you have a problem with but instead you take issue with the mechanics of the ability (specifically the ignores defenses part) it's been that way since beta, they would have to change the entire functionality of the ability and I don't think that is something that is called for.
I've seen bugs that have been around since beta. How long its been around has zero relevance to whether its justified or not.
There are loads of very powerful skills which do huge damage, yet nobody treats it as OP or unfair in anyway -- because most of them can be defended against. Everybody on the receiving end knows its fair if you're butt-crushed by a power you failed to dodge. Everybody on the giving end also knows its fair if you've fired off your attack at the wrong timing, and it gets dodged.
Take Ice Knife for instance. Superbly powerful... and yet, if the wizard just fires it off without thinking about it, the opponent will simply dodge/teleport away from it. Nobody complains about it as much as SE, because its fair. You're dead, or nearly dead if you don't pay attention and it hits -- because, you can dodge away from it. Shox?? Not so. No avoiding it, ever. Every proposed "defense" against it is simply a result of an accident/improbable luck.
I find this very ironic, and perhaps a bit hypocritic coming from proponents of SE. They argue that the TR has had enough nerfs already, and nerfing its damage will take away the only power that can stand upto powerful enemies like GWFs. So ok, powerful daily. Fine. Keep the damage. So then make it defensable against like any powerful attack in this game. Functionally exactly the same -- a super powerful attack based on your HP left. I'd even agree to allowing it to activate 20~30% faster than it is now -- so long as it can be reacted against and dodged.
But ofcourse, MI TRs don't want that as well.
Let's face it. Let's not play dumb. You know, I know, everyone knows that in most cases SE one of the easiest, stupidly easy-mode I WIN power in the game. It's about as easy mode as fighter prone spamming, only limited by action points. TRs like it exactly in the fact that it's a power that most likely allows them to win easily against any opposition, because it's stupidly powerful, and inevitable.
C'mon, MIs. Really. Take one or the other. Don't insist in having both.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Shocking Execution should be removed in its current form and get replaced by some kind of debuff. As the OP says, all the skill tree of the TR synergizes to turn SE into a zero-skill, guaranteed OS.
TR being already un-hittable, there is no necessity to allow him to also deliver pvp damage. The same way as the HR skills are two-fold (Mellee/range), SE should be two-fold: damage in PvE, debuff in PvP.
If the MI TRs want to land that 30k "I win" power, then fine. I have no intention of calling for a damage nerf. All I want is that those wielding that ridiculous power actually work to hit square with it.
How about add a targeting mechanism to it much like singularity, only modified to fit the purpose. Just throwing random ideas off the top of my head here.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but here's how I view it.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 600,000,000 damage... I die.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 15,000 damage... I die.
Who cares? I gotta be missing something here?
Explain to me please.
I've said that in my earlier post. I landed a 36K crit on a target with 3K remaining HP. What's the point?
If we want to go to the topic of "execution" then the more reasonable approach is to put a "revive sickness" kind of effect + ignore SF; in lieu of tweaking its dodge chances/full hp damage. It feels weird that you've executed a target with SE, and then he cries to his party "Yardim! Edim! Promecy! Help mEE!"
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but here's how I view it.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 600,000,000 damage... I die.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 15,000 damage... I die.
Who cares? I gotta be missing something here?
Explain to me please.
I agree but the issue are:
1) Using SE above 50% HP still does amazing dmg - more than 15k pretty easily.
2) It ignores all DR (including tenacity) AND benefits from all those damage modifiers.
What needs to happen is the damage bonus should not kick in until UNDER 35%. This would mean the skill is used for what its supposed to be "an execution". Guardian Fighters have a similar move "Anvil of Doom" that only gets a 100% damage bonus under 25% HP. Its supposed to be an execute type move.
I dont care if it gets a 1000% damage boost, but only have it be active on LOW HP. So then at 30% HP your crit for 10000000 damage or 10,000 damage who cares its all the same... But when your taken 50% to zero from a daily... That passes all DR and is almost impossible to dodge, thats whats stupid...
really? my normal hits are like 10k and 19k on criticals to people around 40%. a 60% nerf pretty much killed any reason to use a daily on actual tanks since even whirlwind of blades will hit harder because 4k-7.6k is going to be pathetic as a daily.
funny thing is that a non-perma rogue is easily capable of killing anyone in a 1 vs 1 and sometimes even 1 vs 2-3.
gwf's r gonna be more of a problem now that our execute is gonna die, so gl everyone when u run into those nigh-immortal gwf's which do still exist.
4-7.6k pathetic as a daily? Tell that to CWs who hit around that much with Ice Knife.
4-7.6k pathetic as a daily? Tell that to CWs who hit around that much with Ice Knife.
That's our big move. Be scared.
at least wizards can spam dailies faster, but i heard ice knife doesn't count armor pen from someone. otherwise, it's funny that i can hit 12k with a cleric daily on squishies.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
No worries guys. I tested SE on the preview server along with a bunch of other TR's(mostly EoA) and SE now hits like a wet blanket until the magical 50%.
No worries guys. I tested SE on the preview server along with a bunch of other TR's(mostly EoA) and SE now hits like a wet blanket until the magical 50%.
I dunno, I can snap a wet blanket pretty friggen hard.....
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I dunno, I can snap a wet blanket pretty friggen hard.....
Let us model the damage per unit HP lost done by SE as a wet blanket whip.
100% = hit by the very front of the wet blanket, near the wielders hand. Not painful, barely noticeable.
50% = Hit by the middle of the blanket, noticeable whoomf, but not excessively dangerous.
15% and below = hit by the tail end of the wet blanket as it whips. Very painful, quite dangerous. Could take an eye out.
Yes, but you have amazing AP Gain. Now I don't speak for the AP TR meta, but mine is pretty useless.
In PvP situations, especially in duels, almost each class (but DC) has better AP gain (considering cookie cutter PvP specs). The reason is simple: the CW cannot freecast and has to kite all the time, unlike in PvE.
Let us model the damage per unit HP lost done by SE as a wet blanket whip.
100% = hit by the very front of the wet blanket, near the wielders hand. Not painful, barely noticeable.
50% = Hit by the middle of the blanket, noticeable whoomf, but not excessively dangerous.
15% and below = hit by the tail end of the wet blanket as it whips. Very painful, quite dangerous. Could take an eye out.
NB, tested on fomorian warriors.
I got hit by SE on preview in Icewind Dale, it still hits hard enough under 50% HP.
Well, at least it fits the name now.
It's called shocking execution after all, supposedly taking down an enemy already low enough on HP. And it's not that bad a move that can take down an enemy from 15-20% HP. Would be better than now even if it was "kill an enemy that is at 15% of his total HP or less".
The way it is now on live, going back to the blanket stuff, feels more like "shocking iron blanket that can behead Godzilla".
I did not read the entire thread, but 19k damage is not unusual.
I play with a GF and when I combine Anvil of Doom with Knight's Challenge and score a critical hit while the target has got less than 25% health then I hit the target for 30k damage.
A GF sure is not a huge damage dealer, but if your health drops below 25% then the GF will finish you off with a ...GOIINNG!!!
SE damage shouldn't be nerfed, but it should be made so the damage bonus doesn't kick in untill you're under 50% or 30% damage.
I do around 6-20k depending if it crits or not, but I only use it if the target has less than 40% HP or so, using it when the target is over 50% shouldn't kill him IMO.
Okay, your experience may vary, I'm currently playing a rogue, ranger and control wizard. I have been on the giving and receiving end of Shocking Execution many times.
Only once have I executed someone who was at near full hit points. My experience is 'far' more often than not that they survive the attack if they are above 50% hit points, on occasion they have survived it while being under 50% hit points.
I have survived SE several times on all of my characters (rogue, ranger & control wizard).
Also, I have had my SE attack interrupted several times.
I'm an average PvP PUG player and I really don't see an issue with SE in its current state.
I've seen people dodge my SE a number of times too, mainly CW's teleporting out of the way, and probably getting too far away for the skill to connect.
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sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited March 2014
Well anyone who says they have been one-shoted prove themselves a liar... skill does like no damage when you have 100% hp it only gives big numbers when you are close to death... useful for annoying immortal gwfs :P. Skilled players also very often block it via artifact (lots of temp hp temporarily), dodge, some skills when used at the same time also totally block it and waste it (tho this is probably bug).
Comments
I've run with EoA and members of EoA often and I am friends with them man. I am not undergeared. I am very geared with very high mitigation (SE ignores mitigation so that's a non-issue). I run premades every day.
I can understand what being nerfed feels like, and I understand your points. I'm not arguing the other abilities or talking about the other nerfs. SE is crazy right now. There is no way someone should be able to take 75% of my 40k health in one shot (alone on a node without extra players or outside debufs) with bilethorn as their enchant.
40k isn't crazy when it was consistently hitting 200k+ on bosses during open beta with no debuffs and 9k GS. Oh that's right, balance off 2 maps the entire class. March 30th come faster.
I can only imagine that the true whales in this game play only PVP, since Cryptic consistently only balances off that small minute part of the game.
If I'm hit with a well-timed SE that I didn't see coming, couldn't react fast enough, and that outright kills me -- then fine. My bad. I should be dead by all means, rightfully so. No biggy.
However, when I get killed by a doofus of a rogue whom I've sent to the campfire countless times in a fight, clearly shown I'm the superior guy, and then the guy respawns and goes *vroooommmm* and floats up and there's no frickin' way I can get away from that despite seeing the activation and trying what the hell ever to get away from it... this is bullchi*.
Currently, the only way of directly countering SE with another TR (at least GFs can block it..), is by hitting the guy wanting to land SE with Courage Breaker. Since CB is slower than SE in activation, you need to pray and hope the other guy is stupid enough to activate SE after being hit with CB and blow it.
Dodging is impossible... deflection impossible... CC impossible (since TRs don't have any fast activation CCs outside of stealth)... CC is also meaningless since the AP is still there.... simply a matter of the guy reactivating it again and again until no interruption... even going into untargetable Bloodbath daily doesn't stop from getting hit by it. Man.. what the hell??
If the MI TRs want to land that 30k "I win" power, then fine. I have no intention of calling for a damage nerf. All I want is that those wielding that ridiculous power actually work to hit square with it.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i'm also fine with that since i rather use whirlwind of blades to hit squishies anyways. quicker activation, hits multiple people (and i am frequently fighting while outnumbered), does 10k on crits, and difficult to dodge it since it has no telegraph.
execute is just my response to someone that simply won't die easily :P (which mostly involves gwf's and some clerics). clerics only have 2 dodges + faster stamina regen from 1 feat path so it shouldn't be that difficult to time it on them and gwf's can't dodge so that's that.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 600,000,000 damage... I die.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 15,000 damage... I die.
Who cares? I gotta be missing something here?
Explain to me please.
You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking:
"I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me and..."
- I try to run, the range is frickin' 30ft, I die
- I try to dodge, can't be dodged, I die.
- I try to deflect it, can't be deflected, I die.
- I go into a daily that makes me invincible and register no damage, I still get hit, I die
- I CC'd him mid activation, he just uses it again, I die
...
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I thought you were calling for a damage nerf when I made my first post. If it's not the damage you have a problem with but instead you take issue with the mechanics of the ability (specifically the ignores defenses part) it's been that way since beta, they would have to change the entire functionality of the ability and I don't think that is something that is called for.
I've seen bugs that have been around since beta. How long its been around has zero relevance to whether its justified or not.
There are loads of very powerful skills which do huge damage, yet nobody treats it as OP or unfair in anyway -- because most of them can be defended against. Everybody on the receiving end knows its fair if you're butt-crushed by a power you failed to dodge. Everybody on the giving end also knows its fair if you've fired off your attack at the wrong timing, and it gets dodged.
Take Ice Knife for instance. Superbly powerful... and yet, if the wizard just fires it off without thinking about it, the opponent will simply dodge/teleport away from it. Nobody complains about it as much as SE, because its fair. You're dead, or nearly dead if you don't pay attention and it hits -- because, you can dodge away from it. Shox?? Not so. No avoiding it, ever. Every proposed "defense" against it is simply a result of an accident/improbable luck.
I find this very ironic, and perhaps a bit hypocritic coming from proponents of SE. They argue that the TR has had enough nerfs already, and nerfing its damage will take away the only power that can stand upto powerful enemies like GWFs. So ok, powerful daily. Fine. Keep the damage. So then make it defensable against like any powerful attack in this game. Functionally exactly the same -- a super powerful attack based on your HP left. I'd even agree to allowing it to activate 20~30% faster than it is now -- so long as it can be reacted against and dodged.
But ofcourse, MI TRs don't want that as well.
Let's face it. Let's not play dumb. You know, I know, everyone knows that in most cases SE one of the easiest, stupidly easy-mode I WIN power in the game. It's about as easy mode as fighter prone spamming, only limited by action points. TRs like it exactly in the fact that it's a power that most likely allows them to win easily against any opposition, because it's stupidly powerful, and inevitable.
C'mon, MIs. Really. Take one or the other. Don't insist in having both.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
TR being already un-hittable, there is no necessity to allow him to also deliver pvp damage. The same way as the HR skills are two-fold (Mellee/range), SE should be two-fold: damage in PvE, debuff in PvP.
How about add a targeting mechanism to it much like singularity, only modified to fit the purpose. Just throwing random ideas off the top of my head here.
I've said that in my earlier post. I landed a 36K crit on a target with 3K remaining HP. What's the point?
I agree but the issue are:
1) Using SE above 50% HP still does amazing dmg - more than 15k pretty easily.
2) It ignores all DR (including tenacity) AND benefits from all those damage modifiers.
What needs to happen is the damage bonus should not kick in until UNDER 35%. This would mean the skill is used for what its supposed to be "an execution". Guardian Fighters have a similar move "Anvil of Doom" that only gets a 100% damage bonus under 25% HP. Its supposed to be an execute type move.
I dont care if it gets a 1000% damage boost, but only have it be active on LOW HP. So then at 30% HP your crit for 10000000 damage or 10,000 damage who cares its all the same... But when your taken 50% to zero from a daily... That passes all DR and is almost impossible to dodge, thats whats stupid...
4-7.6k pathetic as a daily? Tell that to CWs who hit around that much with Ice Knife.
That's our big move. Be scared.
at least wizards can spam dailies faster, but i heard ice knife doesn't count armor pen from someone. otherwise, it's funny that i can hit 12k with a cleric daily on squishies.
I dunno, I can snap a wet blanket pretty friggen hard.....
100% = hit by the very front of the wet blanket, near the wielders hand. Not painful, barely noticeable.
50% = Hit by the middle of the blanket, noticeable whoomf, but not excessively dangerous.
15% and below = hit by the tail end of the wet blanket as it whips. Very painful, quite dangerous. Could take an eye out.
NB, tested on fomorian warriors.
no need for testing.
Yes, but you have amazing AP Gain. Now I don't speak for the AP TR meta, but mine is pretty useless.
In PvP situations, especially in duels, almost each class (but DC) has better AP gain (considering cookie cutter PvP specs). The reason is simple: the CW cannot freecast and has to kite all the time, unlike in PvE.
I got hit by SE on preview in Icewind Dale, it still hits hard enough under 50% HP.
Well, at least it fits the name now.
It's called shocking execution after all, supposedly taking down an enemy already low enough on HP. And it's not that bad a move that can take down an enemy from 15-20% HP. Would be better than now even if it was "kill an enemy that is at 15% of his total HP or less".
The way it is now on live, going back to the blanket stuff, feels more like "shocking iron blanket that can behead Godzilla".
I play with a GF and when I combine Anvil of Doom with Knight's Challenge and score a critical hit while the target has got less than 25% health then I hit the target for 30k damage.
A GF sure is not a huge damage dealer, but if your health drops below 25% then the GF will finish you off with a ...GOIINNG!!!
I do around 6-20k depending if it crits or not, but I only use it if the target has less than 40% HP or so, using it when the target is over 50% shouldn't kill him IMO.
Only once have I executed someone who was at near full hit points. My experience is 'far' more often than not that they survive the attack if they are above 50% hit points, on occasion they have survived it while being under 50% hit points.
I have survived SE several times on all of my characters (rogue, ranger & control wizard).
Also, I have had my SE attack interrupted several times.
I'm an average PvP PUG player and I really don't see an issue with SE in its current state.
Just my average two cents.