Shocking Execution should be removed in its current form and get replaced by some kind of debuff. As the OP says, all the skill tree of the TR synergizes to turn SE into a zero-skill, guaranteed OS.
TR being already un-hittable, there is no necessity to allow him to also deliver pvp damage. The same way as the HR skills are two-fold (Mellee/range), SE should be two-fold: damage in PvE, debuff in PvP.
If the MI TRs want to land that 30k "I win" power, then fine. I have no intention of calling for a damage nerf. All I want is that those wielding that ridiculous power actually work to hit square with it.
How about add a targeting mechanism to it much like singularity, only modified to fit the purpose. Just throwing random ideas off the top of my head here.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but here's how I view it.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 600,000,000 damage... I die.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 15,000 damage... I die.
Who cares? I gotta be missing something here?
Explain to me please.
I've said that in my earlier post. I landed a 36K crit on a target with 3K remaining HP. What's the point?
If we want to go to the topic of "execution" then the more reasonable approach is to put a "revive sickness" kind of effect + ignore SF; in lieu of tweaking its dodge chances/full hp damage. It feels weird that you've executed a target with SE, and then he cries to his party "Yardim! Edim! Promecy! Help mEE!"
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but here's how I view it.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 600,000,000 damage... I die.
I'm at 50% HP, you shocking me for 15,000 damage... I die.
Who cares? I gotta be missing something here?
Explain to me please.
I agree but the issue are:
1) Using SE above 50% HP still does amazing dmg - more than 15k pretty easily.
2) It ignores all DR (including tenacity) AND benefits from all those damage modifiers.
What needs to happen is the damage bonus should not kick in until UNDER 35%. This would mean the skill is used for what its supposed to be "an execution". Guardian Fighters have a similar move "Anvil of Doom" that only gets a 100% damage bonus under 25% HP. Its supposed to be an execute type move.
I dont care if it gets a 1000% damage boost, but only have it be active on LOW HP. So then at 30% HP your crit for 10000000 damage or 10,000 damage who cares its all the same... But when your taken 50% to zero from a daily... That passes all DR and is almost impossible to dodge, thats whats stupid...
really? my normal hits are like 10k and 19k on criticals to people around 40%. a 60% nerf pretty much killed any reason to use a daily on actual tanks since even whirlwind of blades will hit harder because 4k-7.6k is going to be pathetic as a daily.
funny thing is that a non-perma rogue is easily capable of killing anyone in a 1 vs 1 and sometimes even 1 vs 2-3.
gwf's r gonna be more of a problem now that our execute is gonna die, so gl everyone when u run into those nigh-immortal gwf's which do still exist.
4-7.6k pathetic as a daily? Tell that to CWs who hit around that much with Ice Knife.
4-7.6k pathetic as a daily? Tell that to CWs who hit around that much with Ice Knife.
That's our big move. Be scared.
at least wizards can spam dailies faster, but i heard ice knife doesn't count armor pen from someone. otherwise, it's funny that i can hit 12k with a cleric daily on squishies.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
No worries guys. I tested SE on the preview server along with a bunch of other TR's(mostly EoA) and SE now hits like a wet blanket until the magical 50%.
No worries guys. I tested SE on the preview server along with a bunch of other TR's(mostly EoA) and SE now hits like a wet blanket until the magical 50%.
I dunno, I can snap a wet blanket pretty friggen hard.....
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I dunno, I can snap a wet blanket pretty friggen hard.....
Let us model the damage per unit HP lost done by SE as a wet blanket whip.
100% = hit by the very front of the wet blanket, near the wielders hand. Not painful, barely noticeable.
50% = Hit by the middle of the blanket, noticeable whoomf, but not excessively dangerous.
15% and below = hit by the tail end of the wet blanket as it whips. Very painful, quite dangerous. Could take an eye out.
Yes, but you have amazing AP Gain. Now I don't speak for the AP TR meta, but mine is pretty useless.
In PvP situations, especially in duels, almost each class (but DC) has better AP gain (considering cookie cutter PvP specs). The reason is simple: the CW cannot freecast and has to kite all the time, unlike in PvE.
Let us model the damage per unit HP lost done by SE as a wet blanket whip.
100% = hit by the very front of the wet blanket, near the wielders hand. Not painful, barely noticeable.
50% = Hit by the middle of the blanket, noticeable whoomf, but not excessively dangerous.
15% and below = hit by the tail end of the wet blanket as it whips. Very painful, quite dangerous. Could take an eye out.
NB, tested on fomorian warriors.
I got hit by SE on preview in Icewind Dale, it still hits hard enough under 50% HP.
Well, at least it fits the name now.
It's called shocking execution after all, supposedly taking down an enemy already low enough on HP. And it's not that bad a move that can take down an enemy from 15-20% HP. Would be better than now even if it was "kill an enemy that is at 15% of his total HP or less".
The way it is now on live, going back to the blanket stuff, feels more like "shocking iron blanket that can behead Godzilla".
I did not read the entire thread, but 19k damage is not unusual.
I play with a GF and when I combine Anvil of Doom with Knight's Challenge and score a critical hit while the target has got less than 25% health then I hit the target for 30k damage.
A GF sure is not a huge damage dealer, but if your health drops below 25% then the GF will finish you off with a ...GOIINNG!!!
SE damage shouldn't be nerfed, but it should be made so the damage bonus doesn't kick in untill you're under 50% or 30% damage.
I do around 6-20k depending if it crits or not, but I only use it if the target has less than 40% HP or so, using it when the target is over 50% shouldn't kill him IMO.
Okay, your experience may vary, I'm currently playing a rogue, ranger and control wizard. I have been on the giving and receiving end of Shocking Execution many times.
Only once have I executed someone who was at near full hit points. My experience is 'far' more often than not that they survive the attack if they are above 50% hit points, on occasion they have survived it while being under 50% hit points.
I have survived SE several times on all of my characters (rogue, ranger & control wizard).
Also, I have had my SE attack interrupted several times.
I'm an average PvP PUG player and I really don't see an issue with SE in its current state.
I've seen people dodge my SE a number of times too, mainly CW's teleporting out of the way, and probably getting too far away for the skill to connect.
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sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited March 2014
Well anyone who says they have been one-shoted prove themselves a liar... skill does like no damage when you have 100% hp it only gives big numbers when you are close to death... useful for annoying immortal gwfs :P. Skilled players also very often block it via artifact (lots of temp hp temporarily), dodge, some skills when used at the same time also totally block it and waste it (tho this is probably bug).
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well anyone who says they have been one-shoted prove themselves a liar... skill does like no damage when you have 100% hp it only gives big numbers when you are close to death... useful for annoying immortal gwfs :P.
Did you actually PvPed after Tenacity introduction?!?
Okay, your experience may vary, I'm currently playing a rogue, ranger and control wizard. I have been on the giving and receiving end of Shocking Execution many times.
Only once have I executed someone who was at near full hit points. My experience is 'far' more often than not that they survive the attack if they are above 50% hit points, on occasion they have survived it while being under 50% hit points.
I have survived SE several times on all of my characters (rogue, ranger & control wizard).
Also, I have had my SE attack interrupted several times.
I'm an average PvP PUG player and I really don't see an issue with SE in its current state.
Just my average two cents.
I play the same mix of classes and my experience is basically identical.
I've seen people dodge my SE a number of times too, mainly CW's teleporting out of the way, and probably getting too far away for the skill to connect.
The only way to avoid SE is to escape the AOE - basically get too far away. This means you have to get lucky or have lightning reflexes. It has happened to me (on both ends of the skill) a few times but far more often than not it hits.
The other issue is that a miss doesn't drain AP, so you can just fire the skill again right away.
Yeah, I agree that most of the times they just got lucky, they weren't actively trying to avoid it, they just used some teleport and got out of the area.
Most of the times it doesn't drain the ap and I can cast it right away, but yesterday it DID spend my points, it was weird. It was a CW that used teleport and got out of the area, and had like 15-20% of his HP so he should have died, my points were spent though.
Maybe someone else got just in teh way and received it instead?
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014
SE is no more powerful than a CWs ice knife or a GWFs Crescendo. I would say those are actually more powerful as they are dependent upon your being at half life to actually do decent dmg.
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mentaltelepathyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 15Arc User
SE is no more powerful than a CWs ice knife or a GWFs Crescendo. I would say those are actually more powerful as they are dependent upon your being at half life to actually do decent dmg.
You have to be kidding me. Even top end rogues call SE a cheese move. There is not one other skill in all of PvP I have any problem with. Only shocking execution.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
SE is no more powerful than a CWs ice knife or a GWFs Crescendo. I would say those are actually more powerful as they are dependent upon your being at half life to actually do decent dmg.
As already observed by me and others, you receive way more damage from SE even at almost full hp than crescendo or ice knife.
And those who argue that because it has 'execution' it its description its effect should be treated by its name: this is a bogus argument. If you would follow that argument, then every hunter would one-shot people with his 'extremely deadly' aimed shot (and everyone who is playing in PvP knows that you can not compare aimed shot in its damage with SE).
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
"And those who argue that because it has 'execution' it its description its effect should be treated by its name: this is a bogus argument."
+1
Totally agree.
really hilarious argument.
What they said ? "well since it is shocking execution it means that kills people outright.That's ok that does 50h hp dmg'
ok let't turn the table.Gf has en encounter Griffon's Wrath.:) Yes you angered a mighty Griffon and grabs you.So you must die.That is what the title says.I demand 50k hp dmg.
Crescendo.An enraged GF goes into a crescendo with his sword.That's right you must die.I demand 50k hp dmg
CW has Ice Knive.That's right you angered the deity of the CW and an Ice Knive descends from the mighty sky.It must have 50k ho dmg.
And it goes on.....
SE is no more powerful than a CWs ice knife or a GWFs Crescendo. I would say those are actually more powerful as they are dependent upon your being at half life to actually do decent dmg.
Which, is exactly the reason why the key to "balancing" SE lies in not with damage, but with defense against it.
Crescendo coming? Dodge. A CW giving off the audible **ching ching** queue? Dodge....The TR jumping up, making that deep farting sound **vrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmm**, and telegraphs the attack coming from 1 million light years away?
... Die.
No dodge, no deflect, no invincible dailies, no stealth, nothing. Nothing except the GF with his shield. Drop dead face-down on the spot.
...This is what I propose -- increase the activation speed of SE. The TR immediately jumps up to full height, no slow-motion shi*, and then just lands attack immediately when reaches apex of jump.
No nerf to damage. Heck, I don't care even if it does 100k damage.
Just let it be doded/teleported/shifted away from like any other power, any other daily. If the TR lands that cheesy SE on me with impeccable timing, so I don't even see it coming, or I have no dodges left? That's good. Nice shot. Well timed, bravo. No qualms at all.
But when the guy just lazily activates it at any timing, and there's no way for me to avoid that? Bullcrap. It's simply no-brainer, zero-skill easymode. Who the heck needs any skill when you don't need to consider any of the factors that normally requires to be considered when trying to land an attack against people?
C'mon fellow TRs. Both you know and I know that the probability of a freak accident happening with SE that just blows AP without any effect, is very low and unlikely. Both you know and I know that as long as you get that full AP, it's gonna hit, and you're probably going to win. Doesn't matter even if its keltz0r you're fighting against. As long as somebody gangs up and brings down his health 40~50%, you know you're going to land that SE, and you know you're gonna kill him. Ain't got nothing to do with skill, this power. You know this.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
TR being already un-hittable, there is no necessity to allow him to also deliver pvp damage. The same way as the HR skills are two-fold (Mellee/range), SE should be two-fold: damage in PvE, debuff in PvP.
How about add a targeting mechanism to it much like singularity, only modified to fit the purpose. Just throwing random ideas off the top of my head here.
I've said that in my earlier post. I landed a 36K crit on a target with 3K remaining HP. What's the point?
I agree but the issue are:
1) Using SE above 50% HP still does amazing dmg - more than 15k pretty easily.
2) It ignores all DR (including tenacity) AND benefits from all those damage modifiers.
What needs to happen is the damage bonus should not kick in until UNDER 35%. This would mean the skill is used for what its supposed to be "an execution". Guardian Fighters have a similar move "Anvil of Doom" that only gets a 100% damage bonus under 25% HP. Its supposed to be an execute type move.
I dont care if it gets a 1000% damage boost, but only have it be active on LOW HP. So then at 30% HP your crit for 10000000 damage or 10,000 damage who cares its all the same... But when your taken 50% to zero from a daily... That passes all DR and is almost impossible to dodge, thats whats stupid...
4-7.6k pathetic as a daily? Tell that to CWs who hit around that much with Ice Knife.
That's our big move. Be scared.
at least wizards can spam dailies faster, but i heard ice knife doesn't count armor pen from someone. otherwise, it's funny that i can hit 12k with a cleric daily on squishies.
I dunno, I can snap a wet blanket pretty friggen hard.....
100% = hit by the very front of the wet blanket, near the wielders hand. Not painful, barely noticeable.
50% = Hit by the middle of the blanket, noticeable whoomf, but not excessively dangerous.
15% and below = hit by the tail end of the wet blanket as it whips. Very painful, quite dangerous. Could take an eye out.
NB, tested on fomorian warriors.
no need for testing.
Yes, but you have amazing AP Gain. Now I don't speak for the AP TR meta, but mine is pretty useless.
In PvP situations, especially in duels, almost each class (but DC) has better AP gain (considering cookie cutter PvP specs). The reason is simple: the CW cannot freecast and has to kite all the time, unlike in PvE.
I got hit by SE on preview in Icewind Dale, it still hits hard enough under 50% HP.
Well, at least it fits the name now.
It's called shocking execution after all, supposedly taking down an enemy already low enough on HP. And it's not that bad a move that can take down an enemy from 15-20% HP. Would be better than now even if it was "kill an enemy that is at 15% of his total HP or less".
The way it is now on live, going back to the blanket stuff, feels more like "shocking iron blanket that can behead Godzilla".
I play with a GF and when I combine Anvil of Doom with Knight's Challenge and score a critical hit while the target has got less than 25% health then I hit the target for 30k damage.
A GF sure is not a huge damage dealer, but if your health drops below 25% then the GF will finish you off with a ...GOIINNG!!!
I do around 6-20k depending if it crits or not, but I only use it if the target has less than 40% HP or so, using it when the target is over 50% shouldn't kill him IMO.
Only once have I executed someone who was at near full hit points. My experience is 'far' more often than not that they survive the attack if they are above 50% hit points, on occasion they have survived it while being under 50% hit points.
I have survived SE several times on all of my characters (rogue, ranger & control wizard).
Also, I have had my SE attack interrupted several times.
I'm an average PvP PUG player and I really don't see an issue with SE in its current state.
Just my average two cents.
Did you actually PvPed after Tenacity introduction?!?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The other issue is that a miss doesn't drain AP, so you can just fire the skill again right away.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Most of the times it doesn't drain the ap and I can cast it right away, but yesterday it DID spend my points, it was weird. It was a CW that used teleport and got out of the area, and had like 15-20% of his HP so he should have died, my points were spent though.
Maybe someone else got just in teh way and received it instead?
You have to be kidding me. Even top end rogues call SE a cheese move. There is not one other skill in all of PvP I have any problem with. Only shocking execution.
As already observed by me and others, you receive way more damage from SE even at almost full hp than crescendo or ice knife.
And those who argue that because it has 'execution' it its description its effect should be treated by its name: this is a bogus argument. If you would follow that argument, then every hunter would one-shot people with his 'extremely deadly' aimed shot (and everyone who is playing in PvP knows that you can not compare aimed shot in its damage with SE).
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
+1
Totally agree.
really hilarious argument.
What they said ? "well since it is shocking execution it means that kills people outright.That's ok that does 50h hp dmg'
ok let't turn the table.Gf has en encounter Griffon's Wrath.:) Yes you angered a mighty Griffon and grabs you.So you must die.That is what the title says.I demand 50k hp dmg.
Crescendo.An enraged GF goes into a crescendo with his sword.That's right you must die.I demand 50k hp dmg
CW has Ice Knive.That's right you angered the deity of the CW and an Ice Knive descends from the mighty sky.It must have 50k ho dmg.
And it goes on.....
Which, is exactly the reason why the key to "balancing" SE lies in not with damage, but with defense against it.
Crescendo coming? Dodge. A CW giving off the audible **ching ching** queue? Dodge....The TR jumping up, making that deep farting sound **vrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmm**, and telegraphs the attack coming from 1 million light years away?
... Die.
No dodge, no deflect, no invincible dailies, no stealth, nothing. Nothing except the GF with his shield. Drop dead face-down on the spot.
...This is what I propose -- increase the activation speed of SE. The TR immediately jumps up to full height, no slow-motion shi*, and then just lands attack immediately when reaches apex of jump.
No nerf to damage. Heck, I don't care even if it does 100k damage.
Just let it be doded/teleported/shifted away from like any other power, any other daily. If the TR lands that cheesy SE on me with impeccable timing, so I don't even see it coming, or I have no dodges left? That's good. Nice shot. Well timed, bravo. No qualms at all.
But when the guy just lazily activates it at any timing, and there's no way for me to avoid that? Bullcrap. It's simply no-brainer, zero-skill easymode. Who the heck needs any skill when you don't need to consider any of the factors that normally requires to be considered when trying to land an attack against people?
C'mon fellow TRs. Both you know and I know that the probability of a freak accident happening with SE that just blows AP without any effect, is very low and unlikely. Both you know and I know that as long as you get that full AP, it's gonna hit, and you're probably going to win. Doesn't matter even if its keltz0r you're fighting against. As long as somebody gangs up and brings down his health 40~50%, you know you're going to land that SE, and you know you're gonna kill him. Ain't got nothing to do with skill, this power. You know this.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'