GF are just really lame and usually not needed. I hardly play mine but, if some drastic changes were made to everything that is GF I would reconsider playing mine again.
I don't mean just to buff them because it's not that they're not incapable of carrying their own weight, it's just that it's a straight forward, non-exciting, boring class. It needs extreme game play enhancements.
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
I gave up, I rolled a CW thats what Cryptic wants.
THIS! (Though, you forgot the GWF.....)
I hate to say this, but it's true: Cryptic knows NOTHING about class balance.
GFs (my main) are useless. They do mediocre damage, unless they go Conq and even then, it's still sub-par. Sure, they can take a TON of punishment, but that's also useless thanks to the RIDICULOUS amounts of adds in dungeons. Nope. When people need my GF, it's to kite which is atrocious, as a kiter was typically someone that was a) FAST and b) a RANGED class, of which, the GF is neither.
There was a point when a TANK was supposed to FACETANK bosses. Not in this game.
In addition, a GF cannot hold aggro. We expend an additional slot for "enhanced" mark, only to lose it to some HR or CW spamming attacks. Hell, you can lose aggro now to a TR or GWF, since aggro is damaged-based. So, while you're running around, being chased by 20+ high-level mobs, throwing fighter's recovery as quickly as possible to keep yourself alive, even though THAT was nerfed with the changes to frontline, you've got your party complaining that they're being attacked, 'cos you can't taunt enough. Even when you taunt, you have to ATTACK to hold it and that's kinda hard, when you're regulated to run around in circles, spamming taunt and not get killed, while everyone tanks the boss. To add insult to injury, when the boss is down, you have to let everyone else get their chests, wipe, then YOU wipe, so you lose aggro and the mobs run off, just to get your own chest.
DCs (my second main) are equally as useless. They're regulated to healing and debuffing, yet can't heal themselves for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. *NO* higher power, in their right mind, would say, "Hey, I've got a believer here and I'm going to give them healing powers that heals NON-BELIEVERS at full strength, but I'm going to nerf my own acolyte by 40%, 'cos they have 'faith'." *rolls eyes* They get *ZERO* bonuses in PvP for healing their team. What's the point? They do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage, can't defend themselves and are only used as a free-roaming healing pot. If you *DO* find a DC that tries to go DPS, the party whines about it, 'cos they have to use their own pots, instead of relying on a person playing a DC??!?? Yeah, I have so much fun running around healing other people, while they're having fun fighting the boss, using my own pots in the process, 'cos *I* can't heal myself for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, as my Deity thinks that healing his own followers at full strength is "unfaithful."
TRs (my third toon, I made a just before the "tenacity" patch.) are a joke now. IS, while I never used it, was nerfed and people were throwing a massive fit about it. I can understand why. TRs have pathetic CCs and thanks to "tenacity" don't last for even a second or two. Their damage was ruined by "tenacity" and unless you're Strength is maxed, you're lucky to get TWO dodges, compared to a DCs/HRs/CWs 3-4. Add in the fact that you can be control-targeted while in stealth, TRs have become the new GF. I was going 1v1 with a CW (who was OBVIOUSLY OP GS-wise, a la no ELO) and I was doing ZERO damage while nailing him with DF. Add in the fact that prone lasts longer, there's a new HR-CW control-lock spam game going on in PvP and GFs/GWF can spam drop prone attacks, unless you're perma-stealth, your TR is also useless.
In PvE, the only good a TR does is facing the boss, but thanks to HRs and uber-GWF, they're not needed. Why would you take a single DPS rogue with you, when you can have your pick of TWO DPS fighters that can do AoE? Stealth? They're about to change the mechanics of that too! Even TRs don't get XP or anything for disarming traps. What do you even need a TR for?
So, to the OP, join a guild and roll up a CW or GWF. You may want to add HR to that, 'cos they're ridiculously unbalanced as well. You do that, you'll get the dungeons done in no time.
Just my 2p.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited March 2014
That's a lot of rage, man. I will encourage you that positive thinking brings good results.
Gf is in a tough spot right now. I too love my GF but she is so underwhelming in comparison to CW. Sometimes you have to spam threatening rush and enhanced mark to keep aggro, but if all else fails, challange works wonders.
DC is nowhere near as useless as you say. Buffs, debuffs, etc... all really help the team. A good DC is awesome. If you are getting smashed as hard as you say then either a) you are running in first (never do this as a DC) or b) your teammates aren't doing their job keeping the mobs off you. If you put it so the astral shield's front edge is where they are fighting and you stand at the back edge of the astral shield, and your teammates are compitent, you will do well.
TR is really awesome in PvP - but you kinda have to do the PS thing. They aren't great in PvE but a good TR will keep wicked reminder stacked, use WR in sing, and really help the team out. If the control is poor, smoke bomb is awesome, and I am quite sure that duelist's flurry is the best single target DPS out there. In addition, critical teamwork might be best feat in the game.
Just relax though, it will be easiest to get groups on your DC, but if you focus on buff and debuff you will always find a run.
GF as of now has 42 votes which is double the votes for DC which I actually think is just.
The only real problem I see with DC after this recent patch is Healing Dep. which I'm not 100% in favor for even though I barely play my DC.
I just find it hard to say that DCs are "Bad" considering that they are the sole support class in the game and there is no other class to actually compare them to. You can easily pull an argument like, "GFs are bad because they can't tank as good as a GWF" or "HRs are bad because they can't deal as much AoE as CWs" (Just as examples, I'm not actually stating these arguments)
With the DC there are no other classes competing with their support role because there is no other support class. DCs have a monopoly over the support part of teams and they will almost always find a spot in a party, weather you consider them good or bad, because there is no other option for a support team member.
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
GF as of now has 42 votes which is double the votes for DC which I actually think is just.
The only real problem I see with DC after this recent patch is Healing Dep. which I'm not 100% in favor for even though I barely play my DC.
I just find it hard to say that DCs are "Bad" considering that they are the sole support class in the game and there is no other class to actually compare them to. You can easily pull an argument like, "GFs are bad because they can't tank as good as a GWF" or "HRs are bad because they can't deal as much AoE as CWs" (Just as examples, I'm not actually stating these arguments)
With the DC there are no other classes competing with their support role because there is no other support class. DCs have a monopoly over the support part of teams and they will almost always find a spot in a party, weather you consider them good or bad, because there is no other option for a support team member.
I think the problem here is that,
1) This poll doesn't distinguish between pvp and pve. DC's are hurt by healing depression + righteousness.
2) DC's or support in general is only needed by the lowest geared groups in pve. Once you have enough gear and enough regen/lifesteal you don't need a dc in pve either.
I think the problem here is that,
2) DC's or support in general is only needed by the lowest geared groups in pve. Once you have enough gear and enough regen/lifesteal you don't need a dc in pve either.
But a high geared group with an exceptionally high geared DC is an even bigger threat. I run with DCs in my group all the time even if we can clearly blow through a dungeon without one. I still run PK with my entire team of 14k+ members and I'll still bring a DC. Why? because I can pull almost the whole dungeon and just stand in the middle of 50+ mobs and not worry about dying, that's why. DCs are ALWAYS welcome no matter the circumstances of my group and it's usually like this in other groups.
The #1 reason not to bring a DC is because you couldn't find one.
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
Well then on PVE from the worst to the best I'd say this way:
1.Guardian Fighter
2.Hunter Ranger
3. Great WEapon Fighter
4.Trickster Rogue
5.Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard
Game is made in the way that it does not require GF on any instance. TR or GWF can tank any boss. To increase importance of gf in the game bosses would need to be much more stronger attack constantly one aggroed target. Bosses in this game are just easy that is why CW is the most desired class. I put healer in same place cause it's only healing class and also because in most instances in lfg channels requirements for healer is like 1-3 k gs less than on others because there is always deficit of dc. Then there is HR which i do not know what function it can take in instance, i never saw any in cn(exception is additional dps while 2 cw can handle it). I think they just take place of class good in pvp only. Then comes comment for gwf. Since new patch they deal very nice dmg to mobs so that is why i put them on third place. Well they are way worse in control of mobs than cw, so for mobs we can get to party one more cw instead of gwf. While it comes to single target dps they are way worse than tr. Then TR, best single target dps and can tank every boss. Melee best class on pve in my oppinion. And on the place of most important classes of course cw and dc. Well while it comes to cw, game is still more focused on mobs than bosses. In VT only cw are not soo important, but in cn they are most important. CN after almost year of game is still the most important instance so cw is the king on classes on pve.
Now pvp from worst class to the best:
1.DC
2.CW
3.GF
4.HR
5.GWF
6.TR
So in pvp tr perma stealth is the king so of course first place. Universal build to kill any class and he has a lot of advantages like getting many players on him while cappoing point with perma, always can leave any fight in which he cannot win to come back in short time and continue camping spot. GWF sentinel is sometimes unbeatable against few people even. But the thing this class do not have is option of run from too big group when it is obvious he cannot win. s HR is not bad in pvp as well, soe of their build are really deadly. Then gf which has nice stuns but he is quite slow and well cw can just push him over places. Second from last is cw which is very vulnerable. From my own practise(i play as cw and tr) i know how easly he dies in most cases against tr and rest classes can handle him too with their stuns, and the fact that cw do not have much defence except for increased number of dodges and one feat which restores stamina on hit by melee. Last place DC which after healing nerf is in pretty bad situation(i know from own practise).
That would be all for now. I think that with the job cryptic do soon importance of gf and other melee can be higher if the bosses will become more complex and deadly.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
After the recent patch buffing lunging strike, gf is now perfectly balanced with other classes. I played my 12k gs gf and outdmged the cleric, so I was in 4th place in dmg. GF's aren't meant to be the best damage, they are TANKS.
Yeah but clerics aren't meant for damage either, they are HEALERS. The point is that GFs are terrible tanks and terrible with damage. I'm not saying GFs can't take a hit I'm saying tank specced GFs can't deal enough damage to pull aggro and actually prove useful in a party.
You also can't buff a single Damage ability and say a Tank class is good now.
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
Yeah but clerics aren't meant for damage either, they are HEALERS. The point is that GFs are terrible tanks and terrible with damage. I'm not saying GFs can't take a hit I'm saying tank specced GFs can't deal enough damage to pull aggro and actually prove useful in a party.
You also can't buff a single Damage ability and say a Tank class is good now.
This is not the problem I have found with tanks. Pulling aggro is easy - the problem is that
A.) It doesn't matter, as it's more efficient to have a CW hold aggro because he can both deal damage and mitigate damage by controlling them or
B.) It's more efficient to pull aggro by dealing damage (gwf) than by having high aggro generation (gf)
and that
C.) Cleric mitigate incoming damage better than GF by dishing out HP, temp HP, buffs and debuffs and
D.) CW mitigate incoming damage better than GF by controlling mobs
This, coupled with
E.) The adds in high end dungeons are immune to threat but not control and
F.) Dungeons in this game are linear, static corridors filled with unintelligent mobs that require only DPS to beat
all adds up to a class with no use, the Guardian Fighter.
In order to be relevant in a dungeon, GF needs to either
A.) Do as much damage as CW to be worth bringing or
B.) Mitigate as much damage as CW to be worth bringing
The only reason DC and GWF are relevant in dungeons is because GWF can keep up in damage and DC can keep up in mitigation. It's insane that CW performs both these roles as well as it does, by the way.
It's almost always limitations in dungeon design that lead to the tiresome "damage is king" meta in almost all MMOs these days. Dev teams usually start out with good intentions, as shown by the variety and intrinsic interest of the class design in this game, for instance (i.e. on paper). But dev teams all seem to run out of steam in terms of development resources when it comes to filling out the game with interesting dungeons that require anything more than a simple DPS tactic to beat.
And then there's the question: do players actually want "interesting" or "challenging"? Most players, probably not. So maybe it's just a canny developer decision after all (why waste resources on making interesting, challenging dungeons, when most people probably aren't interested?)
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited March 2014
Honestly, best to worst, IMO
PvE:
CW
GWF
DC
HR
TR/GF
PvP:
TR
GWF
HR
GF
DC/CW
Conclusion: GF is screwed XD.
I'm sad about it, i really enjoy the playstyle, but it's undeniable at the moment.
Lol, GF is ok, they have cool def and normal dmg.DC can't nothing.
How help 'Cool Def' if you surrounded by 10+ mobs, that you simple can't smash down? With 80% DR you got 20% and 10 mobs are 200% origin strength! With CWs you may have 20%+ DR. But you won't have 10 mobs on you. Only 3-5 and most of the time they are cced. So the damage incs isn't near the same. CW win in HP hurt and far more in dmg dealing. While the DC is mostly needed in party, the GF not. Even FH can easily done with DC without GF. Only in PvP is the DC nerfed with the update. Same goes for the most protector/tactician GFs.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2014
Post PVP Patch I see this as the list
1. Sent GWF's, still kings, they can take and hold nodes , sometimes it may take them two rotations to kill non GWFs, boohoo =P
2. Perma Stealthed TRs, annoying buggers.
3. HRs, Major difference in how to play them.
4. GFs can now hold nodes much longer, replaces the DC in this function.
5. CWs.. were kind of screwed last patch, higher CC resistance, plus crit lowering, plus life steal nerfing , effects everyone, but heavily effects CWs.
6. DC's, went from middle of the pack to dead last, their roles have been narrowed, their ability to survive has been slashed lower then any other class, (lowest to second lowest damage out put (depending on the GF build) only 20% self heals thanks to double whammy of healing depression and righteousness , lack of CC that would prevent to be burnt down ect.. DCs can function fairly well in a group that defends them, but there isnt much reason to bring one into pvp world imo, unless you are willing to work with them, but to many people dont want to change their play style to do that.
In PVE its pretty much the same as always..
CWS over everyone else.. by a huge giant margin.
Then GWFs over the rest by a large margin.
TRs, GF's, HR's and DC's can be all played well, but are not really needed by any group to finish most DD's. At least DCs bring buffing capabilities with them, as well as added survivablity to the group. Most people care about the speediest set up, but you can pretty much do almost any DD with a rainbow party , a CW is the only thing that makes is super easy. So of course people stack tons of those and dont want to bother with the rest.
I had a blast doing a GF led kurrandux the other day.. superfast, was easy as pie. But Im sure there are going to be 40 other people state, get a GWF or just do it all CW run, faster!!!!
For a few minutes worth of time, lots of people just want to stack what they believe is the best group composition.
im surprised everyone didnt say cw lol cause it is the worst class in need of a retouch because all its powers are way over scaled and off balanced compared to any other class honestly GF and tr and hr would be better on the pain giver if the cw wasn't so ridiculously powerful for aoe.
Obviously not the worst to play but the poll was worded that way.
for me the worst to play is tr honestly they are good but im terrible with it lol.
- DC for PVP
W/o doubt the DCs became USELESS with the righteouss+HD combo. Target dummys. Cannot damage compared to other classes, now less with tenacity; cannot tank, because they cant heal themselves anymore; and....really? they can't HEAL... A healing class that cant heal... Genius.
- GF for pve
Prolly the most unwanted class in a group other than ocasional FH. I can see they are having a hard time finding a group. Other than designing actual interesting dungeons, they are mob spam, all the way.
as of this patch, HR by far is the worst,
go play them, you wont be able to kill <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mobs not funny, not fun. a good class runined beyond belief.
as of this patch, HR by far is the worst,
go play them, you wont be able to kill <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mobs not funny, not fun. a good class runined beyond belief.
I had no problems at all, but again I don't sit there spamming split shot like most people.
Comments
In PvE... TR/GF are relatively useless (but i love playing them), but TR is good in PvP for sure.
Anyone who voted GWF needs a corrective neurosurgery. Are we playing the same game? Best in PvP, second best in PvE.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I don't mean just to buff them because it's not that they're not incapable of carrying their own weight, it's just that it's a straight forward, non-exciting, boring class. It needs extreme game play enhancements.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
THIS! (Though, you forgot the GWF.....)
I hate to say this, but it's true: Cryptic knows NOTHING about class balance.
GFs (my main) are useless. They do mediocre damage, unless they go Conq and even then, it's still sub-par. Sure, they can take a TON of punishment, but that's also useless thanks to the RIDICULOUS amounts of adds in dungeons. Nope. When people need my GF, it's to kite which is atrocious, as a kiter was typically someone that was a) FAST and b) a RANGED class, of which, the GF is neither.
There was a point when a TANK was supposed to FACETANK bosses. Not in this game.
In addition, a GF cannot hold aggro. We expend an additional slot for "enhanced" mark, only to lose it to some HR or CW spamming attacks. Hell, you can lose aggro now to a TR or GWF, since aggro is damaged-based. So, while you're running around, being chased by 20+ high-level mobs, throwing fighter's recovery as quickly as possible to keep yourself alive, even though THAT was nerfed with the changes to frontline, you've got your party complaining that they're being attacked, 'cos you can't taunt enough. Even when you taunt, you have to ATTACK to hold it and that's kinda hard, when you're regulated to run around in circles, spamming taunt and not get killed, while everyone tanks the boss. To add insult to injury, when the boss is down, you have to let everyone else get their chests, wipe, then YOU wipe, so you lose aggro and the mobs run off, just to get your own chest.
DCs (my second main) are equally as useless. They're regulated to healing and debuffing, yet can't heal themselves for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. *NO* higher power, in their right mind, would say, "Hey, I've got a believer here and I'm going to give them healing powers that heals NON-BELIEVERS at full strength, but I'm going to nerf my own acolyte by 40%, 'cos they have 'faith'." *rolls eyes* They get *ZERO* bonuses in PvP for healing their team. What's the point? They do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage, can't defend themselves and are only used as a free-roaming healing pot. If you *DO* find a DC that tries to go DPS, the party whines about it, 'cos they have to use their own pots, instead of relying on a person playing a DC??!?? Yeah, I have so much fun running around healing other people, while they're having fun fighting the boss, using my own pots in the process, 'cos *I* can't heal myself for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, as my Deity thinks that healing his own followers at full strength is "unfaithful."
TRs (my third toon, I made a just before the "tenacity" patch.) are a joke now. IS, while I never used it, was nerfed and people were throwing a massive fit about it. I can understand why. TRs have pathetic CCs and thanks to "tenacity" don't last for even a second or two. Their damage was ruined by "tenacity" and unless you're Strength is maxed, you're lucky to get TWO dodges, compared to a DCs/HRs/CWs 3-4. Add in the fact that you can be control-targeted while in stealth, TRs have become the new GF. I was going 1v1 with a CW (who was OBVIOUSLY OP GS-wise, a la no ELO) and I was doing ZERO damage while nailing him with DF. Add in the fact that prone lasts longer, there's a new HR-CW control-lock spam game going on in PvP and GFs/GWF can spam drop prone attacks, unless you're perma-stealth, your TR is also useless.
In PvE, the only good a TR does is facing the boss, but thanks to HRs and uber-GWF, they're not needed. Why would you take a single DPS rogue with you, when you can have your pick of TWO DPS fighters that can do AoE? Stealth? They're about to change the mechanics of that too! Even TRs don't get XP or anything for disarming traps. What do you even need a TR for?
So, to the OP, join a guild and roll up a CW or GWF. You may want to add HR to that, 'cos they're ridiculously unbalanced as well. You do that, you'll get the dungeons done in no time.
Just my 2p.
Gf is in a tough spot right now. I too love my GF but she is so underwhelming in comparison to CW. Sometimes you have to spam threatening rush and enhanced mark to keep aggro, but if all else fails, challange works wonders.
DC is nowhere near as useless as you say. Buffs, debuffs, etc... all really help the team. A good DC is awesome. If you are getting smashed as hard as you say then either a) you are running in first (never do this as a DC) or b) your teammates aren't doing their job keeping the mobs off you. If you put it so the astral shield's front edge is where they are fighting and you stand at the back edge of the astral shield, and your teammates are compitent, you will do well.
TR is really awesome in PvP - but you kinda have to do the PS thing. They aren't great in PvE but a good TR will keep wicked reminder stacked, use WR in sing, and really help the team out. If the control is poor, smoke bomb is awesome, and I am quite sure that duelist's flurry is the best single target DPS out there. In addition, critical teamwork might be best feat in the game.
Just relax though, it will be easiest to get groups on your DC, but if you focus on buff and debuff you will always find a run.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
The only real problem I see with DC after this recent patch is Healing Dep. which I'm not 100% in favor for even though I barely play my DC.
I just find it hard to say that DCs are "Bad" considering that they are the sole support class in the game and there is no other class to actually compare them to. You can easily pull an argument like, "GFs are bad because they can't tank as good as a GWF" or "HRs are bad because they can't deal as much AoE as CWs" (Just as examples, I'm not actually stating these arguments)
With the DC there are no other classes competing with their support role because there is no other support class. DCs have a monopoly over the support part of teams and they will almost always find a spot in a party, weather you consider them good or bad, because there is no other option for a support team member.
1) This poll doesn't distinguish between pvp and pve. DC's are hurt by healing depression + righteousness.
2) DC's or support in general is only needed by the lowest geared groups in pve. Once you have enough gear and enough regen/lifesteal you don't need a dc in pve either.
But a high geared group with an exceptionally high geared DC is an even bigger threat. I run with DCs in my group all the time even if we can clearly blow through a dungeon without one. I still run PK with my entire team of 14k+ members and I'll still bring a DC. Why? because I can pull almost the whole dungeon and just stand in the middle of 50+ mobs and not worry about dying, that's why. DCs are ALWAYS welcome no matter the circumstances of my group and it's usually like this in other groups.
The #1 reason not to bring a DC is because you couldn't find one.
1.Guardian Fighter
2.Hunter Ranger
3. Great WEapon Fighter
4.Trickster Rogue
5.Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard
Game is made in the way that it does not require GF on any instance. TR or GWF can tank any boss. To increase importance of gf in the game bosses would need to be much more stronger attack constantly one aggroed target. Bosses in this game are just easy that is why CW is the most desired class. I put healer in same place cause it's only healing class and also because in most instances in lfg channels requirements for healer is like 1-3 k gs less than on others because there is always deficit of dc. Then there is HR which i do not know what function it can take in instance, i never saw any in cn(exception is additional dps while 2 cw can handle it). I think they just take place of class good in pvp only. Then comes comment for gwf. Since new patch they deal very nice dmg to mobs so that is why i put them on third place. Well they are way worse in control of mobs than cw, so for mobs we can get to party one more cw instead of gwf. While it comes to single target dps they are way worse than tr. Then TR, best single target dps and can tank every boss. Melee best class on pve in my oppinion. And on the place of most important classes of course cw and dc. Well while it comes to cw, game is still more focused on mobs than bosses. In VT only cw are not soo important, but in cn they are most important. CN after almost year of game is still the most important instance so cw is the king on classes on pve.
Now pvp from worst class to the best:
1.DC
2.CW
3.GF
4.HR
5.GWF
6.TR
So in pvp tr perma stealth is the king so of course first place. Universal build to kill any class and he has a lot of advantages like getting many players on him while cappoing point with perma, always can leave any fight in which he cannot win to come back in short time and continue camping spot. GWF sentinel is sometimes unbeatable against few people even. But the thing this class do not have is option of run from too big group when it is obvious he cannot win. s HR is not bad in pvp as well, soe of their build are really deadly. Then gf which has nice stuns but he is quite slow and well cw can just push him over places. Second from last is cw which is very vulnerable. From my own practise(i play as cw and tr) i know how easly he dies in most cases against tr and rest classes can handle him too with their stuns, and the fact that cw do not have much defence except for increased number of dodges and one feat which restores stamina on hit by melee. Last place DC which after healing nerf is in pretty bad situation(i know from own practise).
That would be all for now. I think that with the job cryptic do soon importance of gf and other melee can be higher if the bosses will become more complex and deadly.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Yeah but clerics aren't meant for damage either, they are HEALERS. The point is that GFs are terrible tanks and terrible with damage. I'm not saying GFs can't take a hit I'm saying tank specced GFs can't deal enough damage to pull aggro and actually prove useful in a party.
You also can't buff a single Damage ability and say a Tank class is good now.
This is not the problem I have found with tanks. Pulling aggro is easy - the problem is that
A.) It doesn't matter, as it's more efficient to have a CW hold aggro because he can both deal damage and mitigate damage by controlling them or
B.) It's more efficient to pull aggro by dealing damage (gwf) than by having high aggro generation (gf)
and that
C.) Cleric mitigate incoming damage better than GF by dishing out HP, temp HP, buffs and debuffs and
D.) CW mitigate incoming damage better than GF by controlling mobs
This, coupled with
E.) The adds in high end dungeons are immune to threat but not control and
F.) Dungeons in this game are linear, static corridors filled with unintelligent mobs that require only DPS to beat
all adds up to a class with no use, the Guardian Fighter.
In order to be relevant in a dungeon, GF needs to either
A.) Do as much damage as CW to be worth bringing or
B.) Mitigate as much damage as CW to be worth bringing
The only reason DC and GWF are relevant in dungeons is because GWF can keep up in damage and DC can keep up in mitigation. It's insane that CW performs both these roles as well as it does, by the way.
Riiiiight...
And then there's the question: do players actually want "interesting" or "challenging"? Most players, probably not. So maybe it's just a canny developer decision after all (why waste resources on making interesting, challenging dungeons, when most people probably aren't interested?)
PvE:
CW
GWF
DC
HR
TR/GF
PvP:
TR
GWF
HR
GF
DC/CW
Conclusion: GF is screwed XD.
I'm sad about it, i really enjoy the playstyle, but it's undeniable at the moment.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
How help 'Cool Def' if you surrounded by 10+ mobs, that you simple can't smash down? With 80% DR you got 20% and 10 mobs are 200% origin strength! With CWs you may have 20%+ DR. But you won't have 10 mobs on you. Only 3-5 and most of the time they are cced. So the damage incs isn't near the same. CW win in HP hurt and far more in dmg dealing. While the DC is mostly needed in party, the GF not. Even FH can easily done with DC without GF. Only in PvP is the DC nerfed with the update. Same goes for the most protector/tactician GFs.
1. Sent GWF's, still kings, they can take and hold nodes , sometimes it may take them two rotations to kill non GWFs, boohoo =P
2. Perma Stealthed TRs, annoying buggers.
3. HRs, Major difference in how to play them.
4. GFs can now hold nodes much longer, replaces the DC in this function.
5. CWs.. were kind of screwed last patch, higher CC resistance, plus crit lowering, plus life steal nerfing , effects everyone, but heavily effects CWs.
6. DC's, went from middle of the pack to dead last, their roles have been narrowed, their ability to survive has been slashed lower then any other class, (lowest to second lowest damage out put (depending on the GF build) only 20% self heals thanks to double whammy of healing depression and righteousness , lack of CC that would prevent to be burnt down ect.. DCs can function fairly well in a group that defends them, but there isnt much reason to bring one into pvp world imo, unless you are willing to work with them, but to many people dont want to change their play style to do that.
In PVE its pretty much the same as always..
CWS over everyone else.. by a huge giant margin.
Then GWFs over the rest by a large margin.
TRs, GF's, HR's and DC's can be all played well, but are not really needed by any group to finish most DD's. At least DCs bring buffing capabilities with them, as well as added survivablity to the group. Most people care about the speediest set up, but you can pretty much do almost any DD with a rainbow party , a CW is the only thing that makes is super easy. So of course people stack tons of those and dont want to bother with the rest.
I had a blast doing a GF led kurrandux the other day.. superfast, was easy as pie. But Im sure there are going to be 40 other people state, get a GWF or just do it all CW run, faster!!!!
For a few minutes worth of time, lots of people just want to stack what they believe is the best group composition.
I think GFs are stronger than most HRs in PvP. How do you figure otherwise?
Obviously not the worst to play but the poll was worded that way.
for me the worst to play is tr honestly they are good but im terrible with it lol.
W/o doubt the DCs became USELESS with the righteouss+HD combo. Target dummys. Cannot damage compared to other classes, now less with tenacity; cannot tank, because they cant heal themselves anymore; and....really? they can't HEAL... A healing class that cant heal... Genius.
- GF for pve
Prolly the most unwanted class in a group other than ocasional FH. I can see they are having a hard time finding a group. Other than designing actual interesting dungeons, they are mob spam, all the way.
go play them, you wont be able to kill <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mobs not funny, not fun. a good class runined beyond belief.
I had no problems at all, but again I don't sit there spamming split shot like most people.
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Lollollol.... Yeah! Buff rogues too!!!! SUPER UNDER POWERED!!!! Not as much as GF though!! Buff me!!!!!!!!
You guys are stoooooopid lol!