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Request: Threatening Rush overwork
adernath
Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I have the impression that it gives a bit too much advantage against CWs and HRs.
I find a cooldown with - lets say - 3 charges more reasonable. Thoughts?
I find a cooldown with - lets say - 3 charges more reasonable. Thoughts?
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Post edited by adernath on
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You can always mark your target with tab and other abilities, dont you? I find that argument quite weak.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Personally, I haven't seen an HR yet that had a difficult time getting away in a 1:1 situation when faced with a GF or GWF. In fact, those classes, from my experience, have had a more difficult time actually closing the gap on a good HR. As a CW though, once they get on you, it's sometimes near impossible to do anything about it other than hope one of your teammates has your back.
to clarify something else mentioned, the rules are not set to disallow class balance feedback. feedback without substance and presented in a disrespectful and/or non-constructive manner is not allowed, however if a class balance discussion is presented properly, then it would be a viable thread. we do not have a rule that says you can't discuss nerfs/buffs.
but that said, the OP doesn't present anything other than a question and very little substance... we may allow it for now.
do not reply to this moderation note. instead send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
As you already mentioned: As soon as the GF has you in his grasp there is close to zero chance you can get away (unless you maybe have enough stamina to make more than one dodge if you are not already stunlocked).
Now lets take my suggestion: 3 charges. So the GF has still the possibility to close the gap. But if he used all charges he has to run conventionally and/or hold block (or whatever he wants to do in that time). Same with CWs: We need to wait for a bit stamina to get away effectively. If we would run, a GF can run with the same speed and so we never can enlarge that gap. If we stand still and fire spells, a GF can block and get closer. It would be more balanced.
I find it again a weak argument to wait for your teammates to help you... this argument just confirms that something is imbalanced.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I didn't see anybody complaining about "balancing" TR on GFs.
Pretty sure this stuff is about GWFs only, even though there's nothing specified.
You're comparing their at-will with your stamina mechanic. They aren't the same thing. You have (slightly diminished) CC abilities, and at-wills. Use Ray of Frost if he wants to block attacks, let it break down his guard meter without wasting your powers. Once his meter is down (or he's frozen) hit him with some CC and put some distance between the two of you. Hug objects to interfere with his at-will.
As far as balance goes, old me might have agreed with you. New me tends to look at balance differently. Balance doesn't necessarily mean that every character has an equal chance up against an equally geared member of another class. As a CW, maybe a GF/GWF SHOULD be a class you need to be extra careful with and call for help if you find yourself going up against them 1:1. That doesn't confirm imbalance in and of itself.
I think it's a bit much on a GWF, to be completely honest, but the OP mentioned Tab'ed marking and GF specifically.
I've said this in numerous other threads; Do anything to Threatening Rush because of those PVP Sentinels and you almost certainly hit the GF with a bat. That power is one of two means of moving around (the other has a ~7 second cooldown) with any sort of speed and a prime tool in our aggro-generating arsenal.
Just some clarifications (this is about non-newb, good GFs just to be clear). Because some CWs might get the wrong idea here
- you won't break GF guard with Freeze Ray... not even close
- if it's a 1vs1 situation when the GF wants to close on you, he will manage to get close and you won't be able to freeze him fast enough with Freeze Ray. This is true even as Oppressor
- would be great if you could use the combo Freeze-Entangle-Repel, but sadly Repel is pretty much dead and not gonna achieve a lot. Used to work OK before Tenacity, thanks a lot Cryptic!
As already mentioned by pers3phone, it is too optimistic to assume that you can get a GFs meter down using ray. This works only if you can sit in the back and can spam this outside of a 1vs1 situation.
I have to disagree with you. For me a balanced PvP experience for this game is the 1vs1 situation (I agree that in an PnP-RPG this is way different).
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Enforced Threat is an AoE that marks enemies in a small-ish size area.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?627261-GWF-and-confessions-Feedback
Generally speaking, yes. Unless I just got out of a fight with someone else, HRs do have marauder's escape(if theyre using it), and binding/constricting arrow(although theyre both nerfed thanks to tenacity now... thanks Cryptic! joking
For GWFs, maybe, since they already have sprint - extra mobility. Even then, I dont think this is the best way to balance GWF vs HR/CW. Sentinel IV survivability needs toned way down. Also they shouldn't have frontline
For GF? No. We have many gap closers, yes, but ESPECIALLY against a good-at-dodging HR, we will be unable to close without blowing Lunging and Bull Charge and helplessly accepting that they will be dodged.
Currently, Threatening Rush for a GF is pretty alright. If a ranged class gets the first shot, a GF is immediately at a disadvantage. Why?
You attack at 50'+, we're forced to Lunge or eat several arrows/spells with our guard meter. Either way you're pidgeon-holing us into something sub-optimal.
BIG TIP: Stop dodging threatening rush. It really doesnt hurt much. I see a lot people dodging Threatening and thats basically screaming "BULLCHARGE ME PLEASE RIGHT NOW PLEAASE" at me.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
ikr? people are soo threatened by threatening rush lol.
As it stands, this move is a dps move. It's hardly a gap closer. The problem is you warp to your enemy then freeze in place while they continue to move. The result is that u never actually catch up to your opponent. If you use T.R. you cant actually hit the enemy after initial use or land your encounters. All your encounters miss because you get planted in place while your enemy moves away
W.O.W had the same problem when they implemented the rogue ability "shadowstep" since it never really worked as a gap closer. What they ended up doing to fix the problem was add a small 1-2second sprint after using the move.
As it stands, the move is purely a dps one and lacks proper utility. The only way to properly catch up to your opponent after T.R. is by using frontline surge (which is usually on cooldown)
Ever.
You can simply get closer with your guard up. As long as your opponent performs ranged attacks he cant move. And if you would have 3 charges with rush you still have plenty of opportunities to close that gap. This works only if you are 100% sure that the GF/GWF has cd on any CC abilities. In almost all cases the next thing is you find yourself prone on the floor if you dont dodge away. As already mentioned earlier, frontline surge or knockdown can not be dodged by reacting, only by guessing. So no... that doesnt go out well in most situations.
You know that 1. it is perfectly doable, 2. there is already an at-will with charges in the game.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I'm sorry, have you ever actually played this game? GFs move at reduced speed while guarding - if I tried closing on you with guard up, your dodges would come back in time to get away, and my meter would be gone by that point. Also, a Conqueror GF really really doesn't want to put his shield up because of Reckless Attacker, ever. Your advantage against them is even bigger because no matter what, they HAVE to block some encounters in order to not get chain-controlled.
EDIT: "This [not dodging Threatening Rush] works only if you are 100% sure that the GF/GWF has cd on any CC abilities. In almost all cases the next thing is you find yourself prone on the floor if you dont dodge away. As already mentioned earlier, frontline surge or knockdown can not be dodged by reacting, only by guessing. So no... that doesnt go out well in most situations."
You have clearly never tried this. I am giving you advice on how people have beaten me before, and you say it won't work in theory. Instead of assuming, I invite you to simply try it. Even if you get Frontlined/Bullcharged, you'll have your stamina left afterwards, instead of having wasted it all on threatening rush's BIG TIME 1000-1500 HITS. Don't be scared of it.
What a question... of course I have played that game and I know that GFs move slower when guard is up, but have you actually read what I said? you close the gap because even if your opponent cast/shoot he is standing still. If he moves (usually at the same speed as you without block - unless he is HR with full pvp set) he can not shoot/cast - and therefore you can drop shield as well. That is pretty much a balanced situation so far. He wont manage to get that guard down with this strategy before you can get in meele; the wizards dodge can be countered by TR (with 3 charges, for example). And honestly, every GF I encounterd so far in pvp has usually his shield up in many situations - unless he is a nab.
What I see is that many GFs usually walk with guard up all the time instead of anticipating when someone is actually casting/shooting an ability (not necessarily at-wills). And why? because they can spam TR to get in meele range anyways. This is pretty much no skill.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
But... hes also implying that smart players wont unecessarily blow their encounters on you as you run in... as an hr or cw, i would just drain away their meter from max distance... then, when its gone, cc the heck out of them, and keep their guard so redlined that they cant block your bigger powers... basically, a gf that just blocks all the time is just asking to be pinged to death.
Yes, and if the devs decide to let us throw our sword at enemies multiple times from long-range I would happily give up Threatening Rush.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
I think that your request is completely unreasonable as it seems to pertain to GF's more than GWF's. While GWF's have other means to close the gap and get into melee range, GF's have two options - lunging strike (a great encounter) and threatening rush (one of the top at-wills for a class with no movement skills). Even if this were a general request to nerf the power (which I oppose entirely), it fails a basic equivalency test. After all, if I am careless on my GF he can easily be locked down by any CW, HR, TR, or GWF - should they be nerfed too? No, of course not.
This isn't a class balance issue, it's a strategy and tactics issue. If you're struggling with threatening rush, try a different load out of skills and a more mobile playstyle. My CW, TR and HR have no issues with threatening rush. It's a common enough skill that I'm accustomed to playing against it.