Shard has always been the playstyle that required the most skill to do well and offered the most reward, I won't argue that, but I think you're overreacting in thinking a 10% racial is OP in pvp just because it foils a combo you spent 6 months practicing. The racial just seems OP because the razor thin margin you were operating on to get your combo off has been eliminated. I used to go into matches with shard on tab, but I pug so I would usually end up kiting alone on a point against multiple people so I would end up switching it and never got alot of practice with it. I would really like to get in one of these high end PMvPM matches and see just how invalid my playstyle is.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Shard has always been the playstyle that required the most skill to do well and offered the most reward, I won't argue that, but I think you're overreacting in thinking a 10% racial is OP in pvp just because it foils a combo you spent 6 months practicing. The racial just seems OP because the razor thin margin you were operating on to get your combo off has been eliminated. I used to go into matches with shard on tab, but I pug so I would usually end up kiting alone on a point against multiple people so I would end up switching it and never got alot of practice with it. I would really like to get in one of these high end PMvPM matches and see just how invalid my playstyle is.
The racial tooltip is not correctly describing what actually happens in reality.
The shard combo is not the only one affected; as I said before, from my tests GWF prones can also be fully resisted.
... Don't even begin to tell me that 5% Crit severity isn't good...
base 175% crit serverity
+p.vorpal
=225% Crit severity
+half-orc
=230%
~1% increase in damage when you crit....so overall like +0.4% damage increase?
I'm not sure about you, but +0.4% damage does not qualify as good in my books.
EDIT: Maybe you think the difference between 225% and 230% is +5% damage (lol)
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
We ran into persephone today in a PMvsPM. Her shard combo owned my Renegade. It really is the one CW spec/combo I cannot fight well against. So, Halflings are resistant to the cheese? Big deal. I'm glad there's something that can resist that ridiculous stun-lock/knock-down combo.
We ran into persephone today in a PMvsPM. Her shard combo owned my Renegade. It really is the one CW spec/combo I cannot fight well against. So, Halflings are resistant to the cheese? Big deal. I'm glad there's something that can resist that ridiculous stun-lock/knock-down combo.
More power to the little people!
Thank you sir! Choice is the key!
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We ran into persephone today in a PMvsPM. Her shard combo owned my Renegade. It really is the one CW spec/combo I cannot fight well against. So, Halflings are resistant to the cheese? Big deal. I'm glad there's something that can resist that ridiculous stun-lock/knock-down combo.
More power to the little people!
GG Trace, well deserved win, very nice match Met so many EoA in PvP, yet the one I met most often in forums only on his GWF, and once
As for the halfling "cheese" resistance... it has nothing specific to do with the shard combo (which worked on you better because you weren't one of the little guys...). Your GWF would hit empty FLS on them. Empty takedowns. You would really like that?
As for the counter to the shard playstyle, I think HR/GF/GWF that are dedicated to hunting CW around (and skilled to do it) work best, and will render CW useless if he doesn't have pro team to help him out of it.
Anyway, more power to the little people! (and others as well because why not :P)
Thanks. This is pretty much the truth. CC resistance is a HUGE advantage. If I cast my biggest nuke on you, and you resisted, I have no prone for 14 secs If I repel you so I can try to kite&survive, and you resist it, I will probably die.
Killing pugs is nothing... zero... nada. Yesterday I was in a few matches where I was 20/30-0 and got reported a few times for "using hacks" (shard combo). In a few matches I got tells from other CWs to stay over the match and explain to them how is it possible to be such a "pro" (in their view). But when I met serious teams I got cleared in 3-4 secs, and my tiefling couldn't profit from its DPS superiority, since I couldn't land shards and CC properly the geared Tenacity halflings I met.
There's a disclaimer in my post. This isn't about nerfing anything
This is intended to be solely a discussion about race advantages in PvP, how significant they are and if it's OK that race should provide such advantages over adversaries. As I said, I am leveling 2 halflings now, one HR and one GWF. Obviously I wouldn't want them nerfed. Yet, we need to take a look at how these things work together in PvP (deflect/halfling/Tenacity), because as things are now, I don't think it's intended that so much CC resistance should be available to chars.
The situation is mirror to how certain classes are useless in PvE, because of CW/GWF superiority.
Needless to say some balancing should be performed.
Again... to clarify:
This is a discussion about how much CC resistance is offered by halfling/Tenacity/deflects.
Well.... props to you for talking about it even tho you are leveling not one but two halflings and a GWF&HR as well - no surprise there lol. Do you like the way a halfling looks that much
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Well.... props to you for talking about it even tho you are leveling not one but two halflings and a GWF&HR as well - no surprise there lol. Do you like the way a halfling looks that much
Or you can see it the other way around.
If this thread leads to Halfling racials being nerfed, err I mean every other class's racials being properly rebalanced, then the OP can keep playing their main and has just saved themselves an enormous amount of time and AD from not having to gear up their new PvP characters. If not, they have the fallback option already in place.
Glass half-empty or full and all that I guess....
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As for the halfling "cheese" resistance... it has nothing specific to do with the shard combo (which worked on you better because you weren't one of the little guys...). Your GWF would hit empty FLS on them. Empty takedowns. You would really like that?
As for the counter to the shard playstyle, I think HR/GF/GWF that are dedicated to hunting CW around (and skilled to do it) work best, and will render CW useless if he doesn't have pro team to help him out of it.
Anyway, more power to the little people! (and others as well because why not :P)
I couldn't care less what people choose to play in PVP. If you want to play a BIS Halfling with max CON, go for it. If you want to play a naked half-elf GWF, that's your business. Just have fun. But I'm not going to get upset in the forums about a race/class that can beat me. I adapt and overcome; it's as simple as that.
For instance, I must have tried 4-5 power combos during that match because I got sick of dying. So your shard combo doesn't work? Big deal. Try something else. And try again. And again. And again. Worst case scenario, go and make a halfling.
Just happened a few times 3 days ago or so in a game, couldn't believe my eyes. And not just once. Basically the graphical effect from IR appeared on the player, but he kept moving...
I think chill stacks and freeze always work, at least from what I saw.
If you have a CW friend and a halfing, you can test it yourself. Might take a few times. Shard goes through, the halfling will not be proned.
I've seen my shard go right through 3-4 players on point.. :P
Sometimes it happens when a ranger is using roots on targets. I think that caused your shard to bug on me a few times, although that didn't stop your team facerolling mine.
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I couldn't care less what people choose to play in PVP. If you want to play a BIS Halfling with max CON, go for it. If you want to play a naked half-elf GWF, that's your business. Just have fun. But I'm not going to get upset in the forums about a race/class that can beat me. I adapt and overcome; it's as simple as that.
For instance, I must have tried 4-5 power combos during that match because I got sick of dying. So your shard combo doesn't work? Big deal. Try something else. And try again. And again. And again. Worst case scenario, go and make a halfling.
Trace changing to something else but shard is not good for your team. Means a lot less AoE CC and burst, and a lot less CC chaining. People should not be forced to change setup because some guy is smaller. And I'm cool, not upset, all OK, and leveling very nice halflings myself.
As for that match, really sorry about that, but you know you cannot allow CWs live. Meldanen was able to neutralize me pretty efficiently together with inna's GWF in another match. What counts is that your team still won, so your strategy worked even if my shard combo did its job.
How geared do you have to be to resist these cc's? I currently have a HR halfling with 2500 deflect, 1200 tenacity and with 50% deflect severity. Icy rays are the worst, ive never been able to run through them and as soon as im stuck in that one spot there goes most my hit points. Those shard things always knock me over then when i get up it explodes and down i go again. Although i have dodged through them. GWFs always get me on take down. Same with FLS.
The cc resist i see sometimes are (and can think of right now)
GF Bull Charge will not send me flying so far and i will land on my feet.
Wizard repel will only push me half way across the map. I can usually dodge out of that black hole daily. And the choke hold wont last so long sometimes.
But i'm just an average player. Did the people who helped you test this have BIS gear or something?
At this point, you guys are fully useful since you continue to keep the topic on the first page, thanks for this!
Can I help too? Please... Can I?
Now to add something productive to the thread... I created my PvP GWF as a Halfing intentionally because it is, in my estimation, the best PvP Race there is for GWFs. Now, does that translate to other classes? I cannot give an expert commentary on that, because I only play GWFs. However I can state in theorycrafting that they should be pretty darn good for other classes also.
Thus I support pers3phone's statement that Halflings are the PvP Master Race of Neverwinter... :cool:
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How geared do you have to be to resist these cc's? I currently have a HR halfling with 2500 deflect, 1200 tenacity and with 50% deflect severity. Icy rays are the worst, ive never been able to run through them and as soon as im stuck in that one spot there goes most my hit points. Those shard things always knock me over then when i get up it explodes and down i go again. Although i have dodged through them. GWFs always get me on take down. Same with FLS.
The cc resist i see sometimes are (and can think of right now)
GF Bull Charge will not send me flying so far and i will land on my feet.
Wizard repel will only push me half way across the map. I can usually dodge out of that black hole daily. And the choke hold wont last so long sometimes.
But i'm just an average player. Did the people who helped you test this have BIS gear or something?
- I'm not sure if there's a dependency on gear, as in, that guy has r10 radiants and darks and not r6s.
- the full resists are pretty random or at least I wasn't able to tell what exactly caused them. Even before Tenacity they occured
- the deflect partial resists should occur to other races as well; this is probably a bug and we can expect this corrected
- Icy Rays I saw just 2-3 cases of full resist, same guy, same match, never tested specifically for this, he got hit, damage taken, he kept moving, Icy Rays graphic root FX still beneath his char, halfling GWF, no unstoppable pop
- there seems to be a shortened duration of CC for halflings as well, as you observed, even without deflect
- Tenacity further shortens the duration of CC
They should nerf halfing racial as it is plain to see that it is too good for PVP. There is a reason why so many high end PVPer use Halfing, I mean come on midgets are cute, but they are not that cute.
10% CC resist are just too much for just a racial.
Or one thing they could have done to fix this is to disable all racial in PVP, problem solved.
mod note: folks, let's please try to remember to stay on topic and be respectful of each others opinions. it's perfectly okay for people to disagree with each other but there is no need to attack someone or their opinions.
also, please do not troll someone's thread with the forum rules. if you think someone is in violation of the rules, submit a post report or PM a forum moderator. replying to a rule violation is a violation in and of itself.
do not reply to this moderation note as the discussion of moderation in the open forums is against the forum rules of conduct. send me a PM instead if you have questions.
They should nerf halfing racial as it is plain to see that it is too good for PVP. There is a reason why so many high end PVPer use Halfing, I mean come on midgets are cute, but they are not that cute.
10% CC resist are just too much for just a racial.
Or one thing they could have done to fix this is to disable all racial in PVP, problem solved.
See, nerf disclaimer or not, this ^ is what results from threads like this. Nerf this, nerf that. Instead of putting a nerf disclaimer, Pers3phone, make a "buff" thread for the racials that need help. These threads are clearly read by the devs and what would be the easiest course of action to please the QQ'ers? Nerf bat with deep gash.
-Not picking on you Slushpsycho, just using your post as an example.
See, nerf disclaimer or not, this ^ is what results from threads like this. Nerf this, nerf that. Instead of putting a nerf disclaimer, Pers3phone, make a "buff" thread for the racials that need help. These threads are clearly read by the devs and what would be the easiest course of action to please the QQ'ers? Nerf bat with deep gash.
-Not picking on you Slushpsycho, just using your post as an example.
All that is needed is more research on this from the developers, to see if and how the racial is malfunctioning, and if it's intended, and after that the tooltip or racial behavior corrected.
After that, more options with PvP viability should be added to other races. Usually more DPS is not the solution for PvP, since if you're CCed you have 0 DPS. So more options that focus on survivability.
There is nothing wrong with the Hafling racial feat. I tried it out on my halfling dc build with no updated(tenacity) pvp gear on, and it performs pretty much the same as it did before the patch, excpet i now get more cc'd agaisnt me and have less healing, than prior to patch.
The problem is with tenactiy, wait no I take that back.
The problem is with the PvP patch. Honestly it should have never been made, instead in its place, proper class balancing should have been performed.
There has not been any real complaints with the Hafling racial cc feat until the latest PvP patch.
Let's not forget the pefect solution.
NERF THE DC! Problem solved.
There is no such thing as Pleather Armor.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is nothing wrong with the Hafling racial feat. I tried it out on my halfling dc build with no updated(tenacity) pvp gear on, and it performs pretty much the same as it did before the patch, excpet i now get more cc'd agaisnt me and have less healing, than prior to patch.
The problem is with tenactiy, wait no I take that back.
The problem is with the PvP patch. Honestly it should have never been made, instead in its place, proper class balancing should have been performed.
There has not been any real complaints with the Hafling racial cc feat until the latest PvP patch.
Halflings can randomly fully resist CCs. It's not happening often yet it happens. This is not what the tooltip says. This might also be true for dwarves and chars with high Wisdom (never happened to me while I had Wis to 20 so probably not high enough there).
But it's very true that because of Tenacity, the general CC resist got to some pretty crazy levels these days, to the point where Tenacity geared halflings can get out of mostly anything real fast.
My halfling has always been able fo fully resist CCs, prior to patch. Now this resist, had been infrequent.
What i am saying is that this has never been a problem before. Many players knew halflings could resist CCs when they were lucky enough to get the roll. No one cared, as this cc escape was infrequent enough to not cause a stir.
Only now, after the PvP patch, has the CC form halflings racial feet been a concern. Again it is not the problem.
I am a bit lazy today so i havent done a search for any threads, but to my knowledgeas this is the first time, since open beta that I have seen an issue about the halfling racial feat come as a concern.
The patch is the problem. Not the racial feat.
Now it's up to the devs to either leave it as it is, or add more "duct tape" to the problem, whose solution was proper class balancing.
Comments
The racial tooltip is not correctly describing what actually happens in reality.
The shard combo is not the only one affected; as I said before, from my tests GWF prones can also be fully resisted.
base 175% crit serverity
+p.vorpal
=225% Crit severity
+half-orc
=230%
~1% increase in damage when you crit....so overall like +0.4% damage increase?
I'm not sure about you, but +0.4% damage does not qualify as good in my books.
EDIT: Maybe you think the difference between 225% and 230% is +5% damage (lol)
More power to the little people!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Thank you sir! Choice is the key!
GG Trace, well deserved win, very nice match
As for the halfling "cheese" resistance... it has nothing specific to do with the shard combo (which worked on you better because you weren't one of the little guys...). Your GWF would hit empty FLS on them. Empty takedowns. You would really like that?
As for the counter to the shard playstyle, I think HR/GF/GWF that are dedicated to hunting CW around (and skilled to do it) work best, and will render CW useless if he doesn't have pro team to help him out of it.
Anyway, more power to the little people! (and others as well because why not :P)
Well.... props to you for talking about it even tho you are leveling not one but two halflings and a GWF&HR as well - no surprise there lol. Do you like the way a halfling looks that much
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Or you can see it the other way around.
If this thread leads to Halfling racials being nerfed, err I mean every other class's racials being properly rebalanced, then the OP can keep playing their main and has just saved themselves an enormous amount of time and AD from not having to gear up their new PvP characters. If not, they have the fallback option already in place.
Glass half-empty or full and all that I guess....
I couldn't care less what people choose to play in PVP. If you want to play a BIS Halfling with max CON, go for it. If you want to play a naked half-elf GWF, that's your business. Just have fun. But I'm not going to get upset in the forums about a race/class that can beat me. I adapt and overcome; it's as simple as that.
For instance, I must have tried 4-5 power combos during that match because I got sick of dying. So your shard combo doesn't work? Big deal. Try something else. And try again. And again. And again. Worst case scenario, go and make a halfling.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I have a full pvp TR halfling, 40% deflect.
Shard doenst go through me.
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
Which is? SoteA I suppose, but combined with what?
EF + IR + Shard, or IR + EF + Shard.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Trace changing to something else but shard is not good for your team. Means a lot less AoE CC and burst, and a lot less CC chaining. People should not be forced to change setup because some guy is smaller. And I'm cool, not upset, all OK, and leveling very nice halflings myself.
As for that match, really sorry about that, but you know you cannot allow CWs live. Meldanen was able to neutralize me pretty efficiently together with inna's GWF in another match. What counts is that your team still won, so your strategy worked even if my shard combo did its job.
The cc resist i see sometimes are (and can think of right now)
GF Bull Charge will not send me flying so far and i will land on my feet.
Wizard repel will only push me half way across the map. I can usually dodge out of that black hole daily. And the choke hold wont last so long sometimes.
But i'm just an average player. Did the people who helped you test this have BIS gear or something?
Now to add something productive to the thread... I created my PvP GWF as a Halfing intentionally because it is, in my estimation, the best PvP Race there is for GWFs. Now, does that translate to other classes? I cannot give an expert commentary on that, because I only play GWFs. However I can state in theorycrafting that they should be pretty darn good for other classes also.
Thus I support pers3phone's statement that Halflings are the PvP Master Race of Neverwinter... :cool:
- I'm not sure if there's a dependency on gear, as in, that guy has r10 radiants and darks and not r6s.
- the full resists are pretty random or at least I wasn't able to tell what exactly caused them. Even before Tenacity they occured
- the deflect partial resists should occur to other races as well; this is probably a bug and we can expect this corrected
- Icy Rays I saw just 2-3 cases of full resist, same guy, same match, never tested specifically for this, he got hit, damage taken, he kept moving, Icy Rays graphic root FX still beneath his char, halfling GWF, no unstoppable pop
- there seems to be a shortened duration of CC for halflings as well, as you observed, even without deflect
- Tenacity further shortens the duration of CC
Hello
Dwarves might be on the same level of utility, I just never got to test it, but I have no reasons to doubt kune's post.
10% CC resist are just too much for just a racial.
Or one thing they could have done to fix this is to disable all racial in PVP, problem solved.
Or just enable people to aesthetically change their racial features
they do occasionally for me as a drow. never say no to a cc lasting 25% of normal duration :P
also, please do not troll someone's thread with the forum rules. if you think someone is in violation of the rules, submit a post report or PM a forum moderator. replying to a rule violation is a violation in and of itself.
do not reply to this moderation note as the discussion of moderation in the open forums is against the forum rules of conduct. send me a PM instead if you have questions.
thank you.
See, nerf disclaimer or not, this ^ is what results from threads like this. Nerf this, nerf that. Instead of putting a nerf disclaimer, Pers3phone, make a "buff" thread for the racials that need help. These threads are clearly read by the devs and what would be the easiest course of action to please the QQ'ers? Nerf bat with deep gash.
-Not picking on you Slushpsycho, just using your post as an example.
You say Halflings are OP the solution simple...
NERF THE DC!
GWF IV built is OP? NERF THE DC!
Perm TRs are OP? NERF THE DC!
A DC can still somewhat heal in PvP? NERF THE DC!
A DC can do damage an opponent? NERF THE DC!
Players can still choose a DC on characer creation? NERF THE DC!
Nerfing the DC is the devs perfect solution to any major problem.
Nerf the DC. Problem solved. :cool:
All that is needed is more research on this from the developers, to see if and how the racial is malfunctioning, and if it's intended, and after that the tooltip or racial behavior corrected.
After that, more options with PvP viability should be added to other races. Usually more DPS is not the solution for PvP, since if you're CCed you have 0 DPS. So more options that focus on survivability.
That would be it IMO.
The problem is with tenactiy, wait no I take that back.
The problem is with the PvP patch. Honestly it should have never been made, instead in its place, proper class balancing should have been performed.
There has not been any real complaints with the Hafling racial cc feat until the latest PvP patch.
Let's not forget the pefect solution.
NERF THE DC! Problem solved.
Halflings can randomly fully resist CCs. It's not happening often yet it happens. This is not what the tooltip says. This might also be true for dwarves and chars with high Wisdom (never happened to me while I had Wis to 20 so probably not high enough there).
But it's very true that because of Tenacity, the general CC resist got to some pretty crazy levels these days, to the point where Tenacity geared halflings can get out of mostly anything real fast.
What i am saying is that this has never been a problem before. Many players knew halflings could resist CCs when they were lucky enough to get the roll. No one cared, as this cc escape was infrequent enough to not cause a stir.
Only now, after the PvP patch, has the CC form halflings racial feet been a concern. Again it is not the problem.
I am a bit lazy today so i havent done a search for any threads, but to my knowledgeas this is the first time, since open beta that I have seen an issue about the halfling racial feat come as a concern.
The patch is the problem. Not the racial feat.
Now it's up to the devs to either leave it as it is, or add more "duct tape" to the problem, whose solution was proper class balancing.