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HRs are impossible to kill
mehguy138
Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
Yeap. Came to this conclusion after playing 30+ matches as all classes after the update (and as a HR too).
I don't know what mechanics the game uses to calculate excurrent DR for HRs, but they seem to have at least 70% damage resistance. Hell, when I hit them it seems like I'm hitting unstoppable GWF.
I've tried to use CWs debuff stacking, GWF with almost 40% ArP - nothing worked.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but HRs seem to be new GWF - always deflect, CC doesn't work, insanely high defense, very high HP pool (I have 31k on my HR without maxing Con and only with 2 R7s radiants) plus practically unlimited amount of dodges and Maradeur's Escape.
I think that core of the problem is Aspect of the Lone Wolf, which combined with Tenacity gives them <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> survivability. Oh, and using T2 pvp set and 2d feat tree they run with 25% more speed in melee stance. And their Constricting Arrow and roots...
I repeat: may be, may be as a PvP'er playing Neverwinter since open beta I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure it out how in heaven and all the existence should I play against Hunter Rangers after Tenacity update.
If you have any thoughts, suggestions or opinions - feel free to respond, but please, be constructive.
UPD.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635221-Official-Feedback-Thread-PVP-Campaign&p=7627691&viewfull=1#post7627691
This proves how broken HRs are.
I don't know what mechanics the game uses to calculate excurrent DR for HRs, but they seem to have at least 70% damage resistance. Hell, when I hit them it seems like I'm hitting unstoppable GWF.
I've tried to use CWs debuff stacking, GWF with almost 40% ArP - nothing worked.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but HRs seem to be new GWF - always deflect, CC doesn't work, insanely high defense, very high HP pool (I have 31k on my HR without maxing Con and only with 2 R7s radiants) plus practically unlimited amount of dodges and Maradeur's Escape.
I think that core of the problem is Aspect of the Lone Wolf, which combined with Tenacity gives them <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> survivability. Oh, and using T2 pvp set and 2d feat tree they run with 25% more speed in melee stance. And their Constricting Arrow and roots...
I repeat: may be, may be as a PvP'er playing Neverwinter since open beta I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure it out how in heaven and all the existence should I play against Hunter Rangers after Tenacity update.
If you have any thoughts, suggestions or opinions - feel free to respond, but please, be constructive.
UPD.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635221-Official-Feedback-Thread-PVP-Campaign&p=7627691&viewfull=1#post7627691
This proves how broken HRs are.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Post edited by mehguy138 on
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have no idea what y'all are talking about, i am HR and die all the time. when i check stats at end of pvp i see not HRs that have not died, or that seem op. maybe everyone is so use to killing them quick that now that they are a bit more balanced against others it seems like they are op to you. not at all in my opinion.
the prob with pvp is when people team up. that is not cool cause it defeats the purpose of the ranking and teaming system. if people team up then the system should make them wait however long it takes to get a team "matched" to them. Or, they should have to wait for another premade to queue.
Right now, it's not really the HR who are overpowered, as they are able to contend against TR's and GWF's which are two other classes that do well in PVP. Rather, it's the CW's (including DC's and GF's) who are currently underpowered.
Not sure if this'll help for PVP but I'm just curious anyway, but has any CW tried running Shield on TAB lately on PVP along with Tenacity gear?
pretty much this I was about to say pretty much around all this here.
Yeah, having hard times with smart and geared ones too. Hybrid guys are quite strong. They dodge/root me and do significant damage form afar. If it comes to melee they are not so easy to kill since the tenacity/deflect while they can still bite back :P
HR guys may be really happy with this patch, since it gave them opportunites to be really strong in PvP.
So yes when most ppl get him t2/t2.5 PVP sets you will see so much cry here in the forum about "New GWF" which one will be HR ... welcome to world of Cryptic.
Pheryllt - 13.8k HR
Ginko - 10.3k DC
Puzzl Bochs - lvl38 CW
Ikr? The pvp patch made EVERY class tankier. I wish tenacity gave a damage/control bonus, instead of making battles just last longer.
Some players make comments based on pug experience, where you meet "normal" toons.
Some players, on the other hand, experience different stuff against top geared toons.
From what we know, high-end PvPers have 1 thing in commong: focus on HP-survivability. From what i've seen, survivability usually beats pure DPS in PvP on some classes.
What bugs me is the 40% ArP GWF not being able to dish out huge damage on the guy. Must really have monster deflection and monster HP.
Thing is, such tank builds should hit like a tank DC. No matter the class.
Where are these invincible HRs you talk about? I never see them. I'm too busy getting chain-proned and two-shotted by GWFs and GFs or immobilized by CWs just long enough for a GWF to come up and PVorpal me for more HP than I even have. Or having my HP whittled away by a perma-stealth rogue that I simply cannot keep decloaked.
Don't fight against T2.5, fully-geared, top-tier HRs and say "the class as a whole is unkillable now".
So you finally admit that GWFs do too much dmg in pvp? Or just that other classes should do **** dmg when then figure out a spec with good survivability while you get to keep the most hp, dmg and mobility?
He said tank builds. Not all GWF's are tank build (sentinel)
When they reach a certain level in terms of HP, deflect, and equipment, combined with their self-preservation buffs that range from increased dam.res to "100% dodge one attack" shielding and WIS stats that both increase CC strength and CC resistance, they are perhaps the most difficult enemies to land my VP-DazingStrike combo against -- against the HRs that faithfully invested in the secondary WIS stats (+tenacity), VP stun wears off before Dazing Strike connects.
It's actually easier to land the combo on TRs, since against those once I confirm ITC visuals, I can simply count to five and then use it. Against HRs, the really well-built ones, there's not much a WK TR like my build can do.
Very tough class to fight against.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
But just last night I ran into one of these HR's you talk about. I threw half my rotation (CW) on him and it just barely made a small dent in his HP. I was like, wtf is this, and threw the rest on him, same thing, barely nudged him. He seemed to have around 90% deflect with 90% deflect sev or something. Needless to say I died without ever posing a threat. (we were 1v1) HR also has insane amount of kiting mechanics making them very hard to kill just for this reason as well. Some can seem like a semi-perma stealth and they stun/root you with high damage to boot.
Not gonna whine about HR's like I do about GWF's though, since this issue is far less seen. In the future of NW then sure, something needs to be done but for now I will settle with a hefty GWF nerf. It's kinda hilarious that all pro-GWF comments are made by, you guessed it, GWF's. Just wanted to say that I know what you are talking about.
Must admit that respeccing to Combat has really improved my K/D ratio, and the patch helped. He's easily my best TR killer (spamming FS around a perma is fun) and is pretty good against CWs as well. I also find that most HRs I come up against are Archer spec and once I get within melee range they're generally toast.
Good class in PvP right now.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
There's a certain build running around (which I intend to use on my HR soon lol) that is UBERTANKY even with low life. Even before tenacity patch, good HRs were borderline impossible for CW, I was 2:8 against a BiS HR that was nice enough to stay and duel, one of the best ones in the game, but I don't think I can kill him anymore. One of these days I fought a nice HR I met in a random match, he was following me everywhere, I ran across all map to survive, and he had like 2 GWFs and a TR on him and took a minute to die
So yeah. HRs can sport some nasty build that is tanky as hell.
That's the keyword they CAN. A lot of rangers go archer path, and even though they try to build some defense they weren't impossible to kill, they were downright squishy. pre pvp patch, cws only had to worry about constricting arrow. if they controlled the ranger before that, they were done. post pvp patch, they worry about constricting less, so they can just work their permacontrol. Pre pvp patch, never saw any class but gwfs and gfs try to facetank gwfs. Now I see it from hrs, trs, gfs, gwfs, and yes, sometimes(albeit rare) cws. The point is that they stated that they wanted battles to last longer... and they did just that.
everyone should take note of this comment
There is a boon from Dread Ring campaign named Illusion shimmer, which increases Deflect severity by 3%.
Other than that, there is no way to increase it. TR is the only class that has 75% deflect severity, all others have 50%.
Today I got the armor piece of the Profound set, it will take me about a week to complete it. (1 seal of triomph from pvp daily, and 1 for gg pvp daily). Even in blue gear I already considered myself OP, when I complete this set, I get Tenacity, heals on deflect (already at 20% or 30% deflection depending on stance), and another 20% movement?? And ideal stats on the set to complete it.
Unkillable? No. A chain-cc can easily kill any HR, and a HR has no way to break CC, and the dodges may occasionally help you, but the dogde is so short, that you usually get cc'd anyway. When they outnumber you there's a good chance you can get away and may be unkillable in that fasion, but my sentinel GWF can survive longer on a tower with half the required skill level. That's what makes the sentinel gwf so OP (specificly saying sentinel because destroyer gwf isn't thát OP IMHO). The fact that you're that good regardless of skill is different from any other class. Then again all other classes can do PVE and PVP very well in the same spec. Since the patch, my TR is having less trouble with GWF's then with HR's though.
All together, if you have the gear and the skill to play a HR well, in my opion a HR might be the most OP class atm. Closely followed by gwf and tr. I do play all classes, and with the other three classes you can still be very good, but you depend a lot more on your team then before the pvp update.
Give players time to figure out their weaknesses (if they have any) and maybe in a week or two they wont seem so OP. Then again, this may just be the new threat for PvP.
Right now HR has too much of everything. Hard CC and high damage combined with insane tankiness lead them to the first place on the pedestal of PVP OPness.
I just wanna point out all the things HR has:
If you want you can take every paragraph of that list and compare it to the rest of classes. IMO, tenacity update made HRs extremely broken.
I see the more HRs not afraid of going in melee against 2+ players because you barely can burst them anymore.
The only ways I see to bring them on par with other classes:
1. Fix the bug that causes deflect to reduce duration of CC.
2. Nerf Aspect of the Lone Wolf bonus DR.
3. Fix the bug that makes all roots effects undodgeable.
4. Reduce number or duration of Constricting Arrow stuns or rework this ability completely.
It is true HR are hard to hit and seem way more effective in mellee range now, but i'd give it time so we see some counter measures being made for them on the form of other players strategies.