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Is ELO working?
velynna
Member Posts: 336 Arc User
I have played 30+ matches, I have near perfect ELO (around 3 losses) and generally play with guildmates who also have near-perfect ELO with 20-40 matches played.
The vast majority of the time, my group will be matched against non-premade groups with opponents that seem to have ~10k GS. Needless to say, within minutes, the opponents are staying in their spawn and we can't even leave to find a new game because of the penalty. So both groups have to wait out the game for 10 minutes or so, doing nothing. We get premades, but not nearly as often as PUGs. This would be fine if the PUGs included mostly experienced players; this certainly doesn't seem to be the case.
I understand that the system also needs to gather information about other players. But if players don't have an established ELO, why are they being matched against us? How many games does ELO really need before it starts matching at least semi-effectively? Is it actually operating in game at the moment?
Before people simply tell me to solo-queue for a challenge, here's why I premade:
1. I am a DC, which is one of the most painful classes to solo-queue on because of the high reliance on my teammates to know what they're doing
2. I enjoy the game most when I'm playing with friends; this means my guildmates
3. I've been PvPing competitively for a while now, and premades are the most challenging and fun part of PvP for me. Premades require the most strategy, skill, and so on. There isn't much skill involved in running around capping empty points for my PUG allies who refuse to go to certain nodes, in dying to a 1v4 because my allies are busy 5v1ing a perma-stealth TR on a point for an eternity, in staying in spawn because the rest of my team has given up, etc.
As such, I generally queue with a premade of experienced players because that's who I want to meet in PvP: other experienced players in a premade (or not but), who are able to communicate and coordinate in ways that make the matches as challenging as possible. Instead, I run mainly into non-premades with seemingly inexperienced and undergeared players.
What are other people's experiences with ELO? Is it working for you?
The vast majority of the time, my group will be matched against non-premade groups with opponents that seem to have ~10k GS. Needless to say, within minutes, the opponents are staying in their spawn and we can't even leave to find a new game because of the penalty. So both groups have to wait out the game for 10 minutes or so, doing nothing. We get premades, but not nearly as often as PUGs. This would be fine if the PUGs included mostly experienced players; this certainly doesn't seem to be the case.
I understand that the system also needs to gather information about other players. But if players don't have an established ELO, why are they being matched against us? How many games does ELO really need before it starts matching at least semi-effectively? Is it actually operating in game at the moment?
Before people simply tell me to solo-queue for a challenge, here's why I premade:
1. I am a DC, which is one of the most painful classes to solo-queue on because of the high reliance on my teammates to know what they're doing
2. I enjoy the game most when I'm playing with friends; this means my guildmates
3. I've been PvPing competitively for a while now, and premades are the most challenging and fun part of PvP for me. Premades require the most strategy, skill, and so on. There isn't much skill involved in running around capping empty points for my PUG allies who refuse to go to certain nodes, in dying to a 1v4 because my allies are busy 5v1ing a perma-stealth TR on a point for an eternity, in staying in spawn because the rest of my team has given up, etc.
As such, I generally queue with a premade of experienced players because that's who I want to meet in PvP: other experienced players in a premade (or not but), who are able to communicate and coordinate in ways that make the matches as challenging as possible. Instead, I run mainly into non-premades with seemingly inexperienced and undergeared players.
What are other people's experiences with ELO? Is it working for you?
Post edited by velynna on
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That's my theory too; they removed it when it was making players wait 40+ minutes in queue.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
So far the system has been working for me most the times and I usually play solo so cant have perfect score
SENT IV GWF - PVP
I would have chosen the option 'Queue me at rock bottom cuz I suck at this!' and I would have been telling the absolute truth. XD
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
That would have been a great idea!
From my experience, the matchmaking is pretty **** fail. It tries to:
- match PMvsPM - nice
- above not possible? Tries to match ELO to ELO
- above not possible? Tries to match closest ELO together with your PM's ELO. This is when bad stuff happens, such as the times when we met your full PM while pugging. Seems that ELO takes other high ELO players, and when it runs out of those, it just fills with whatever is available. This can easily be guys at 9K GS with no wep/armor enchants and 50% mount.
I don't think there's another solution for this, because:
- your PM is at the highest ELO
- there are probably 25-40 people at the same ELO as your guild, and playing at all kinds of hours
- you don't wanna wait 3-4 hours in queue until some other PM comes online, or until queue finds 5 very high ELO players.
Oh, most high ELO players don't pug, so there's no pool from which to choose opponents for you.
And we should also mention that if you take only best, very high ELO players and mishmash them together in a pug against your organized PM on voicechat... you think anything would change? I'd say no. Those guys won't be able to score 200 points IMO.
Small game, not many players.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
We haven't tried. The leaver penalty means that it could be quite the hassle until ELOs are firmly established. If we tried to organize a premade, and were not queued against each other, we would have to finish the match. We've tried a few times to queue/stream snipe a premade without great success. Here's to hoping the ELO system will start reliably queuing premades against each other, because organizing one is a lot more complicated than it used to be. (The main downside in this is that you can't really account for group comps; we recently played against a 2 GWF, 2 TR, and 1 CW premade -all of these being point holders except for the CW- when our group only had 1 main point holder -a GF. It was quite challenging.)
I would with 100% certainty confirm that the ques are laxed or someone has a great sense of humor lol
Ladyhawk - HR
Nighthawk the Pink TR
That match was frustrating.
I think that persephone nailed it with his theory of what is happening with matchmaking and elo.
Honestly, I don't see things getting any better, except maybe at NA prime time.
GS has nothing to do with the queue.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I've been queuing as a pug mainly this past week to see how the system is working, if at all. My experience has been this:
That being said, my ELO right now is most likely not where it should be from dealing with these pug matches. Having to 1v4 the enemy team as you mentioned while the rest of my team 4v1's a perma-stealth TR or geared sent GWF, having 4 people sit there to cap a point that isn't even being contested, having my team give up and sit in the campfire as soon as they start to die a lot.
I had hoped that not only premade pvp would be fixed, because queuing with a premade and automatically going against another premade would be pretty awesome, but I also had high hopes for solo queuing. In my opinion, being able to just queue up and have a match with 9 other people that are as geared as you or at least know what they're doing would bring the fun back to PvP in this game.
TL;DR The ELO system in this game is pretty much failing at this current point. Premades can't receive good match-ups, and solo queuing is more painful than ever.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Another day of fail...
Typically, in a server of many hundreds of people online, only around 10~20 of them are the really, really, really powerful PvP players. The "cream of the crop", the "best of the best" -- typically these types are less than 2% of the game population, so when there are 500 people on line, maybe 10~20 of them are at the "top contendor" level. At any given time, since due to difference in time zones, around 5~10 of them are online at the same time, while the rest prowl at different time zones.
Now, those 5~10 people, they get the highest ELO rating in the first place because all of the 5~10 best players just makes teams among themselves. How they expect to find a "challenge" when they've monopolized all the "challenge-worthy players" in the first place and brought them into the premade, is really beyond me.
I mean, isn't it obvious? Like, duh? If they really want a challenge, they should be fighting amongst themselves, not teaming up in the same premades.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
#1 There are a lot of amazing players who aren't in my guild that I see premading regularly (Cucumber Stand, Synergy, EoA, Casting Couch, Dulce, etc.). It's not that a challenge doesn't exist (it most certainly does), it's that we're often not getting matched against them. I'm not in a constant state of "monopolizing" the best players online when I PvP with 4 other people.
#2 It's a lot trickier to coordination in-houses at the moment
One very frustrating side effect of the "premade" detection system is that it will send 7k people queueing together into the higher brackets and then of course, it's a disaster. It happened to me twice. Both guys from the same guild, fresh 60s in f-ing green gear, in my team full of 13-14k people. That's silly.
Practically the only person with sense in this entire thread. Good job, sir, you solved the mystery. This was going to happen 100% since they tried it. Last comment, probably won't see that, doubt it. Problem is upper-tier PvP premade matches were generally always the same five or so guilds, and we've all played with each other endlessly. Kind of don't want to have to wait 50 minutes to play the same people we could set up a premade match for before using the old system and matching queue pops. If they implement ELO again, it will happen. What they needed was a premade queue, half of the complaining would have been solved.
One of the reasons I'm done with PvP for now in this game.
The Elo in chess not only tells who of two players is the favourite, but also allows you to predict the outcome. If I am rated 2000 Elo and you're rated 2200 Elo and we play 10 games, you will win 7,5/2,5.
Elo is also self-correcting, if a player has a way too low Elo compared to his real strength he will quickly close the gap.
Intrinsically the Elo system is just flawless. Now, its implementation by Cryptic is a completely different matter.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
*cough* *cough*
Nope, not even close to flawless - there is even a mathematical proof of this.
What ELO is, however, is one of the simplest effective means of measuring relative player ability.
But still matching with sub 10k gs people with normal mounts, even in NA prime time.
I think this is why Cryptic is hiding our actual ELO number.
Or perhaps SHUTTING IT OFF? Seriously, people, it's simple to figure out. Queue times decreased because they realized the population isn't large enough to support it. Patch notes here for you:
Adjusted Domination PvP queues to throttle matchmaking queuing speeds based on population and current average queue wait times to get the best of matchmaking and reasonable queue times.
I heard there were 200+ instances each map back in last December.
200*10*2=4000+ people at the same time.
Sure PvE focused players who got Raven artifact don't play PvP anymore and general server population decreased compared to those days.
In the EU-NA prime time, i think we have enough population for matchmaking based on ELO.
The problem is matching range is too wide.
I'd rather wait for longer queue for quality matches.
BTW, after today's patch, queue time is a bit longer but match quality is much worse for me.
Lost 3 out of 5 games by huge amount of point difference(like 200-1000 with some leavers) due to gear/experience gap.
A logical argument, except you are pulling all of those numbers out of your butt so... Really it is a who knows situation.
Be careful with those numbers. I've played this game since the beginning. The population was HUGE at that time, and there were three shards, not one as there are now. They were merged when numbers declined, though they of course wouldn't admit that, and you have to take into account alts, bots, and multi-boxing. Probably cut that number at least in half, if not more.