Being a paying custom doesn't give you the right to exploit. The fact that they've mostly ignored exploiters for so long means that people don't feel bad for doing so.
It's not about rights, it's about simple economics and balancing the harm done by the exploit against loss of revenue through banning people who have transferred money into the game. For the reasons I outlined I find it highly unlikely that Cryptic will feel that the loss of revenue is worth it.
They should also give another "thank you" item to all those who originally qualified for the stone and who did not take more then one per toon ( if that's possible, not sure but should be )
The problem with this is that many of these people are also responsible for the exploit, as 100% of the stones in circulation originally came from the account of someone who legitimately qualified for the stone at some point.
I laugh at all the people who say this ruined the economy. How exactly did it ruin the economy? its not like people somehow magically produced gold or AD out of thin air. That currency ws already in the game somewhere and the only difference is it now belongs to a different person.
The problem with this is that many of these people are also responsible for the exploit, as 100% of the stones in circulation originally came from the account of someone who legitimately qualified for the stone at some point.
Understood..but thats why I put the clause.."only claimed 1 per toon". Weren't the perps claiming many per toon and then selling/giving them away. In which case they would not get a "thank you" item, but a lump of coal instead ....
....(edit) of course make this thank you item only 1 unique per ACCOUNT
I had received a stone legitimately when the promotion was live, so to me it matters very little. Am I upset that others who did not spend a dime on the game are leaching? slightly, but no biggie since I could care less what these freeloaders have, it doesn't effect my enjoyment.
However, that being said.. I think cryptic should give ALL players a free stone of radiance, or else it's like a big slap in the face to those who either didn't partake ( for fear of repercussion , or morals etc) or those who didn't manage to log in during the time. They should also give another "thank you" item to all those who originally qualified for the stone and who did not take more then one per toon ( if that's possible, not sure but should be )
The first positive suggestion in this thread and it even makes sense oddly enough.
Give all currently created characters a BoP (<= please don't mess this up again) Green Ioun and for those people who put money in for the promotion perhaps give all their current characters a BoP Blue version, or alternatively a couple of claimable (BoP) free companion upgrade tomes upgrades from Green to Blue.
Wouldn't stop the original exploiters from profiting, but would be a nice thank you to everyone who didn't take part.
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sarranspMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Everyone got a free green pet. One that became available by others that paid real money for it. You can call me whiner all you want, but you would feel the same way. Also, apart from this companion itself that means that all of the other stones are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now. Boom, zero value. So how do you feel that someone that might have started this game yesterday got something for free that you might have farmed days to get?
I had a laugh at this. I paid for the Radiance stone and I'm not whining about it, good for other people. I also had a hearty chuckle at your "Boom, zero value", that is absolutely ridiculous, the Allure stone is far more useful for most classes and that never changed in price or availability. It's a basically free GREEN pet that was given away as a promotion, they weren't going to give away a game changing pet as a promotion no matter how you look at it so the other stones will do just fine. Calm down and ease off the panic bro, you, the game and it's economy will do just fine. Also, you can't farm for days to get the Radiance stone, you had to transfer in 1000zen from the arc purchase page so those that paid the money (they were most likely going to spend anyways) got the pet at their leisure. Chill out.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
The "so what" is that PWE is again sending the message that cheating is just fine (see also the response to the Nightmare fiasco).
If you steal a bar of chocolate, or rob a bank, you are still stealing. If you are told "it was just a bar of chocolate, it's OK" chances are you will steal something bigger when given the chance.
I had a laugh at this. I paid for the Radiance stone and I'm not whining about it, good for other people. I also had a hearty chuckle at your "Boom, zero value", that is absolutely ridiculous, the Allure stone is far more useful for most classes and that never changed in price or availability. It's a basically free GREEN pet that was given away as a promotion, they weren't going to give away a game changing pet as a promotion no matter how you look at it so the other stones will do just fine. Calm down and ease off the panic bro, you, the game and it's economy will do just fine. Also, you can't farm for days to get the Radiance stone, you had to transfer in 1000zen from the arc purchase page so those that paid the money (they were most likely going to spend anyways) got the pet at their leisure. Chill out.
This. I paid my zen, got a stone and IDGAF if others have one. I don't know why people are so ****hurt over this. It's not as if widely available green stones suddenly makes my stones of allure or upgraded stones of radiance worthless.
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I had a laugh at this. I paid for the Radiance stone and I'm not whining about it, good for other people. I also had a hearty chuckle at your "Boom, zero value", that is absolutely ridiculous, the Allure stone is far more useful for most classes and that never changed in price or availability. It's a basically free GREEN pet that was given away as a promotion, they weren't going to give away a game changing pet as a promotion no matter how you look at it so the other stones will do just fine. Calm down and ease off the panic bro, you, the game and it's economy will do just fine. Also, you can't farm for days to get the Radiance stone, you had to transfer in 1000zen from the arc purchase page so those that paid the money (they were most likely going to spend anyways) got the pet at their leisure. Chill out.
I may be overreacting. But the problem is there. By farming I was talking about the blue stone rather than this green one. For some classes the older green stone (might) was still best in slot and so is this new one. Think about someone that farmed for the stone of might and someone else just got it for free. Again, I don't really mind everyone having the stone, I don't feel the need to be special. But getting it for free and from an exploit is a whole other story and it makes me cringe. Yeah, perhaps the price of the allure will stay the same and yeah maybe for the most part the game economy is still intact. But what does that tell you about how they handle exploits? This is the second incident so far that they did nothing. It really makes you think.. Finally, yeah I still feel I've been fooled because they presented this whole thing as a gift so now the only thing they managed to do is ruin this gift for anyone that got it. Anyway, I'm not going to whine anymore I'll just be following this thread just for the shake of it.
I got my stones from the promotion, transferred zen got the gift was please with it, still am.
Will I take part in other promotion? No. Since there's a chance the next gift is bugged too and I can buy 20 of them for 5 gold.
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vatesbladeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 26
edited March 2014
This makes it blindingly clear that Cryptic/PW picks and chooses when to enforce its own ToS, and for those who think it doesnt matter just because it was a 10 dollar promo ..... regardless of it being a $1 item or a $100 item the principal is the same. It is still cheating, and there sending the message that it is ok.... We have and will continue to lose both paying and free players with this kind of management of these type of issues. I know this cause i have had many friends leave already and am considering it myself if this is what i can expect in the future.
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I got my stones from the promotion, transferred zen got the gift was please with it, still am.
Will I take part in other promotion? No. Since there's a chance the next gift is bugged too and I can buy 20 of them for 5 gold.
I know people in my guild that got one for each character on multiple accounts so I guess better gift for them and free Yep no more promotions for me either lol
This makes it blindingly clear that Cryptic/PW picks and chooses when to enforce its own ToS, and for those who think it doesnt matter just because it was a 10 dollar promo ..... regardless of it being a $1 item or a $100 item the principal is the same. It is still cheating, and there sending the message that it is ok.... We have and will continue to lose both paying and free players with this kind of management of these type of issues. I know this cause i have had many friends leave already and am considering it myself if this is what i can expect in the future.
As much as people may hate to hear this, it's in the Terms of Service that PWE decides when a violation has occurred and the appropriate punishment for such.
We may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within our discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Service. By using the Service, you agree you will be bound by our determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.
Relevant portion highlighted for emphasis.
To that end, they have followed the ToS to the letter. There is no such thing as "selective enforcement" simply because of the fact that the discretion as to whether something needs to be enforced or even punished rests solely with PWE. The playerbase does not determine when the ToS should be enforced, therefore to say that "PWE doesn't even follow their own ToS" is incorrect.
Furthermore, this issue is not quite over yet. First the bleeding needed to be stemmed. Since that has now been done, the staff can now sit down and determine what is the best course of action to take--not only as to whether compensation is due, but how to go about dealing with exploiters. That, as well, is at their sole and absolute discretion.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
As much as people may hate to hear this, it's in the Terms of Service that PWE decides when a violation has occurred and the appropriate punishment for such.
To that end, they have followed the ToS to the letter. There is no such thing as "selective enforcement" simply because of the fact that the discretion as to whether something needs to be enforced or even punished rests solely with PWE. The playerbase does not determine when the ToS should be enforced, therefore to say that "PWE doesn't even follow their own ToS" is incorrect.
Furthermore, this issue is not quite over yet. First the bleeding needed to be stemmed. Since that has now been done, the staff can now sit down and determine what is the best course of action to take--not only as to whether compensation is due, but how to go about dealing with exploiters. That, as well, is at their sole and absolute discretion.
Yup and our reactions come from past experience with their sole and absolute discretions.
0
luckycharms1979Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited March 2014
As with some previous instances in which something was meant as a special reward but something went haywire, I think that those of us who legitimately participated in the promotion and earned the Ioun Stone will get another offer or prize thrown our way to placate us.
Hold on and have faith that the Devs will offer a consolation prize.
Yup and our reactions come from past experience with their sole and absolute discretions.
Fact remains is that it is still their call to make--whether it is popular or not.
I'll try to make an analogy here:
Let's say you get pulled over for speeding. Now, clearly, you were speeding, and some others around you may have been speeding, but the officer pulled you over. That's a discretionary call.
Now...the officer MAY let you off with a warning. Or, he can write you a citation for the offense. He has to decide what is best for the situation at hand--but the discretion is his and his alone. Some people will say "you were speeding, you should have gotten a ticket, man you got off easy!!" Some will complain "why the ticket? it wasn't that big a deal man!!"
Truth of the matter is, though, the officer was the one that got to make that call.
Same principle applies here. Not everyone is going to agree with the actions taken (and never mind that we haven't even seen the full extent of action taken at this time) but the fact is that PWE will make their determination based on what is best for the community and their services, and they reserve the right by Terms of Service--an agreement that we are all bound to by use of the game and forums--to make that determination.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I have seen much worse things happen in other games, multiple times. DDo had a bug that allowed an event item to be sold for gold and folks made and banked millions of gold - in a game where gold had meaning. Everyone said the sky is falling/the economy is ruined/the devs do not care/most of what folks are saying here, but in DDO earning a million gold was not a short term thing - people took months even a year to earn a mill, and many folks did it in a day. there was no rollback, there were no bans and none of what was predicted took place. The real impact was some folks bought all of a certain item type (tomes for stats) and the price on them was very high for a while. I made my cash of the tomes i sold in the following months, so even though i did not exploit, like many others i benefited. over all, it was a wash and a small blip on the radar.
In DCUO, there was an exploit and while very limited, they did a rollback. I lost about 12 hours of playing and I had a very, very rare drop that was lost in the rollback... never found another such item in the rest of the time i played the game...
So to me, i prefer less be done. I do not think there would be harm if they gave us folks that participated in a legit manner some bone to chew on, but for it to be anything meaningful could hurt the game even more... assuming it has even been hurt.
as the community manager CMPinPointError stated last night after emergency maintenance, the initial resolution was to fix the glitch. other options are being considered. yesterday was a pretty long and tiresome day and if we could just have a little patience, it would be much better than making a bunch of assumptions about what is going to happen now.
we apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and appreciate your patience and understanding while this gets hashed out.
Comments
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Understood..but thats why I put the clause.."only claimed 1 per toon". Weren't the perps claiming many per toon and then selling/giving them away. In which case they would not get a "thank you" item, but a lump of coal instead
....(edit) of course make this thank you item only 1 unique per ACCOUNT
The first positive suggestion in this thread and it even makes sense oddly enough.
Give all currently created characters a BoP (<= please don't mess this up again) Green Ioun and for those people who put money in for the promotion perhaps give all their current characters a BoP Blue version, or alternatively a couple of claimable (BoP) free companion upgrade tomes upgrades from Green to Blue.
Wouldn't stop the original exploiters from profiting, but would be a nice thank you to everyone who didn't take part.
I had a laugh at this. I paid for the Radiance stone and I'm not whining about it, good for other people. I also had a hearty chuckle at your "Boom, zero value", that is absolutely ridiculous, the Allure stone is far more useful for most classes and that never changed in price or availability. It's a basically free GREEN pet that was given away as a promotion, they weren't going to give away a game changing pet as a promotion no matter how you look at it so the other stones will do just fine. Calm down and ease off the panic bro, you, the game and it's economy will do just fine. Also, you can't farm for days to get the Radiance stone, you had to transfer in 1000zen from the arc purchase page so those that paid the money (they were most likely going to spend anyways) got the pet at their leisure. Chill out.
The "so what" is that PWE is again sending the message that cheating is just fine (see also the response to the Nightmare fiasco).
If you steal a bar of chocolate, or rob a bank, you are still stealing. If you are told "it was just a bar of chocolate, it's OK" chances are you will steal something bigger when given the chance.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
This. I paid my zen, got a stone and IDGAF if others have one. I don't know why people are so ****hurt over this. It's not as if widely available green stones suddenly makes my stones of allure or upgraded stones of radiance worthless.
I may be overreacting. But the problem is there. By farming I was talking about the blue stone rather than this green one. For some classes the older green stone (might) was still best in slot and so is this new one. Think about someone that farmed for the stone of might and someone else just got it for free. Again, I don't really mind everyone having the stone, I don't feel the need to be special. But getting it for free and from an exploit is a whole other story and it makes me cringe. Yeah, perhaps the price of the allure will stay the same and yeah maybe for the most part the game economy is still intact. But what does that tell you about how they handle exploits? This is the second incident so far that they did nothing. It really makes you think.. Finally, yeah I still feel I've been fooled because they presented this whole thing as a gift so now the only thing they managed to do is ruin this gift for anyone that got it. Anyway, I'm not going to whine anymore I'll just be following this thread just for the shake of it.
Will I take part in other promotion? No. Since there's a chance the next gift is bugged too and I can buy 20 of them for 5 gold.
I know people in my guild that got one for each character on multiple accounts so I guess better gift for them and free
As much as people may hate to hear this, it's in the Terms of Service that PWE decides when a violation has occurred and the appropriate punishment for such.
Section 15.3 of Terms of Service: http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms
Relevant portion highlighted for emphasis.
To that end, they have followed the ToS to the letter. There is no such thing as "selective enforcement" simply because of the fact that the discretion as to whether something needs to be enforced or even punished rests solely with PWE. The playerbase does not determine when the ToS should be enforced, therefore to say that "PWE doesn't even follow their own ToS" is incorrect.
Furthermore, this issue is not quite over yet. First the bleeding needed to be stemmed. Since that has now been done, the staff can now sit down and determine what is the best course of action to take--not only as to whether compensation is due, but how to go about dealing with exploiters. That, as well, is at their sole and absolute discretion.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Yup and our reactions come from past experience with their sole and absolute discretions.
Hold on and have faith that the Devs will offer a consolation prize.
Pretty much this.....the level of baby fit the community displays sometimes is pretty pathetic.
Fact remains is that it is still their call to make--whether it is popular or not.
I'll try to make an analogy here:
Let's say you get pulled over for speeding. Now, clearly, you were speeding, and some others around you may have been speeding, but the officer pulled you over. That's a discretionary call.
Now...the officer MAY let you off with a warning. Or, he can write you a citation for the offense. He has to decide what is best for the situation at hand--but the discretion is his and his alone. Some people will say "you were speeding, you should have gotten a ticket, man you got off easy!!" Some will complain "why the ticket? it wasn't that big a deal man!!"
Truth of the matter is, though, the officer was the one that got to make that call.
Same principle applies here. Not everyone is going to agree with the actions taken (and never mind that we haven't even seen the full extent of action taken at this time) but the fact is that PWE will make their determination based on what is best for the community and their services, and they reserve the right by Terms of Service--an agreement that we are all bound to by use of the game and forums--to make that determination.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
In DCUO, there was an exploit and while very limited, they did a rollback. I lost about 12 hours of playing and I had a very, very rare drop that was lost in the rollback... never found another such item in the rest of the time i played the game...
So to me, i prefer less be done. I do not think there would be harm if they gave us folks that participated in a legit manner some bone to chew on, but for it to be anything meaningful could hurt the game even more... assuming it has even been hurt.
we apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and appreciate your patience and understanding while this gets hashed out.