You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
A bug is an error leading to an unintended consequence of a computer software/program. In this case, someone touched something he shouldn't have. Like a pricing mistake, or a mislabel. If your cash registrar makes the wrong total, it's a bug. If you put a wrong price on an item, it's human mistake.
Everyone got a free green pet. One that became available by others that paid real money for it. You can call me whiner all you want, but you would feel the same way. Also, apart from this companion itself that means that all of the other stones are HAMSTER now. Boom, zero value. So how do you feel that someone that might have started this game yesterday got something for free that you might have farmed days to get?
Oh? you mean like the nightmarepocalypse? I remember building/farming my butt off for keys bought with ad to zen transfer, and/or ah merching. Then i use said keys on lockboxes BEFORE the addition. Lo and behold, what do i see the next morning, AFTER i went and spent all my precious ad to try to get a 1 up on the market? BAM! everyone who opens 3 out of 4 lockboxes or whatever gets a free nightmare?! really?! And before you get all "it cost money though" no it didnt. All you had to do was buy a few keys, and the flood of nightmares you got put you soooo far in the green, you had more money than you could handle. As far as the problem with the ioun stone, yes i think something should be done. But whining about it not being fixed, whereas nothing was done about the nightmarepocalypse, is hypocritical. The ioun stone came free. Yes, you had to do something to get it, but that was simply buying zen. You didnt use said zen to purchase them, did you? It was a promo, and while i understand people who charged the zen should feel screwed that it didnt matter, IT DIDNT COST YOU ANYTHING. The nightmarepocalypse didnt either, but people were able to make a hell of a lot more from them.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Actually, this isn't true. If you get money from a teller or an ATM, and they accidentally give you more than what they should have, they WILL ask for it back, and you're responsible for returning the money, or else you'll be arrested for stealing.
Well, thinks might be different in my country then, because in here, it's the mistake of the bank, usually they won't ask for it in return.
Who cares? Seriously, it's a new companion for some people who didn't have one. If it increases their enjoyment of the game, great! It's not going to impact you or anyone else negatively in any way.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
I'm with Rabbinicus, it just doesn't matter. Doesn't affect me in the slightest (and I did do the promotion to get my stones and have spent far more on this game then most.) I didn't take advantage of the stones yesterday but I would have given a free one to anyone had they asked (just as many others were. Its a shame many were selling and trading for other items but oh well human nature I guess. I do have a friend that made 2000 gold yesterday selling these things which surprized me as many were giving them away - but again what does his having 2000 extra gold do to my experience in game - that's right ZERO / NADA!! Don't care doesn't effect me gold is next to useless I have thousands upon thousands of gold I've earned in game it has almost no usage after a certain point I'll never spend what I have if I play this game for another 20 years unless they put something in game that requires it (and pots etc... don't use nearly as much as I bring in selling junk).
I think a lot of posters here are missing the actual point , not many really care about how many others got the stone , what most people care about is that the developers seem to be so flippant about exploits and exploiters , anyways I don't care either way , but I am going to bookmark this thread specifically for the day a huge scale exploit causes a rollback then when all the people here who say it doesn't matter start rolling up crying I can gleefully rub their posts from this thread about how everybody should get over exploiters ruining the game doesn't matter etc.
I think a lot of posters here are missing the actual point , not many really care about how many others got the stone , what most people care about is that the developers seem to be so flippant about exploits and exploiters , anyways I don't care either way , but I am going to bookmark this thread specifically for the day a huge scale exploit causes a rollback then when all the people here who say it doesn't matter start rolling up crying I can gleefully rub their posts from this thread about how everybody should get over exploiters ruining the game doesn't matter etc.
Could be an incredibly long wait.
The current response to exploits tends to be to (slowly) get round to fixing it, and then, err, well actually that is the current response....
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2014
Guys, you understand the servers weren't brought down and there was no rollback, nor is there going to be because nothing that happens actually breaks the game. There's no reason to punish the thousands of players who were just going about their normal business on a Thursday night because of something like this.
How Cryptic deals with the actual exploiters has yet to be seen.
I hope they do something to punish the exploiters, but taking down and/or rolling back the server would've just punished the rest of the people who weren't doing anything wrong.
You have to make sure that the action you take is proportional to the damage done.
This is the only thing that really gets under my skin about the whole thing , yes it isn't game breaking and it is only a green pet and I agree more players having an augment make the parties I join the times I queue so much easier but when all is said and done this was a exploit that flooded the game with a companion that was never supposed to be flooded into the game , they are setting a dangerous prescience for any future exploits , how can they expect the playerbase to follow the ToS when the people running the game seem to follow the ToS only when it suits them .
They set that precedent with the "lucky" response and treatment of the nightmare mount issue. That's why so many people were taking advantage of the stone, the precedent for treatment had already been set by a much larger exploit, and everyone knew it.
I wasted five million AD promoting the Foundry.
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gornonthecobMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 421Arc User
Funny thing how this was supposed to be a 'thank you' promotion for those that spend money here. It turned around to 'be the sucker and transfer 1000 zen now but everyone else will get it too!'
I have access to this stone, and even though i wasn't willing to risk my account selling or giving them to other people, I'm glad some of the purely F2P guys could get it. Can't hurt, it may only help them getting something better than orc wolves or free cleric pets. Share the joy of stones! They weren't that expensive anyway.
Anyone seriously expecting large scale 'punishment' of 'exploiters' from last night needs to give their head a bang. Consider...
1. Every single 'exploiter' was a paying customer. Someone who had recently transferred at least 1000Z into the game.
2. These are the people actually paying the wages of the devs.
3. Banning these people will cost the game a lot of money as they clearly won't be spending any more cash on a game they can't play.
4. The 'exploit' will have an extremely limited impact in game. If any at all.
It would be interesting to see if they had a way to track how many times a person "created" an item, and just ban those accounts that created hundreds or thousands of these stones to sell. At least there would be some sort of justice.
Creating these items is not an exploit as you can freely claim as many as you like from the vendor. They would have to prove that those stones were then sold/traded/given away.
Creating these items is not an exploit as you can freely claim as many as you like from the vendor. They would have to prove that those stones were then sold/traded/given away.
And 'justice'? Who has been wronged, exactly?
This is true. And I guess trying to make it up to the people who did transfer ZEN by offering another gift would only reward the people who were exploiting anyway seeing as how they're the ones who transferred ZEN! lol!
It all came back around today with the huge nerf to Tymora's Gift drop rates. I'm fairly sure the drop rates were reduced by 66%.
They set that precedent with the "lucky" response and treatment of the nightmare mount issue. That's why so many people were taking advantage of the stone, the precedent for treatment had already been set by a much larger exploit, and everyone knew it.
This, why are ppl so mad about it? We all know Cryptic, PWE encourage exploiting by 1) not penalizing exploiters, 2) not stoping players from using the exploits as soon as they are discovered 3) forcing the playerbase to create it's own legit player channel. I mean really ppl the issue is how things are handle as a whole not this one specific incident.
This, why are ppl so mad about it? We all know Cryptic, PWE encourage exploiting by 1) not penalizing exploiters, 2) not stoping players from using the exploits as soon as they are discovered 3) forcing the playerbase to create it's own legit player channel. I mean really ppl the issue is how things are handle as a whole not this one specific incident.
And that players had to create a /Legit channel should, by itself, show everyone how seriously Cryptic views exploits.
Well then! I’m kind of glad I didn't buy the Zen when I received the email. With this exploit, I would have been a bit peeved if I had.
As for everyone now having a stone, well that’s not the case. Some of us have to spend long periods of time away from the game and have no idea what is transpiring during that time. Even if I had known, I wouldn't have partaken in the exploit. Just not my style.
I don’t think they will roll back or remove any exploited stones. About the only thing they can do is make amends with the people who have purchased Zen by offering another (better) promotion. Just a suggestion.
I mean really ppl the issue is how things are handle as a whole not this one specific incident.
Is this the real source of problem?
I don't blame PWI, most people are just hypocrites, they only care about exploits when they haven't got any advantage.
Never saw someone stay behind and don't jump Delzoun gate.
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atraleosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Yesterday's Ioun Stone "fiasco" is a small part of 2 bigger issues:
1- Cryptic needs to be much more transparent on what constitutes cheating and what the penalties for cheating are. People here keep using the word "exploit" in regards to the Ioun Stone event, however there is a problem with that: In this game we are playing as adventurers who are quite actively exploiting people in a bad situation for our own personal gain. You can cherry coat it as helping out the unfortunate; but bottom line the player character is a looting, pillaging, murderous character that is doing quite well financially through these actions. With a setting such as this, of course people are going to do whatever they can to get ahead in the game.
Be it selling illegitimate stones or taking shortcuts to make their loot runs shorter. Actions like this are all par for the course and punishing players for them without making it clear they are cheating is very bad form. For the record, I was one of the people who were speaking out against yesterday's profiteering and did not take part partially because I did not wish to risk a perma ban on an account I've spent a lot of time and a little bit of money.
2- Cyptic is a business and MUST preserve it's paying customers' confidence in order to keep them as repeat paying customers. Bottom line, Cryptic must make money or the game shuts down. If players do not see value in the things Cryptic sells for real money or in the promotions Cryptic runs, they will not give Cryptic the needed money to keep the game running. This Ioun Stone of Radiance promotion may have done more harm than good in regards to the confidence of paying customers.
The Ioun Stone of Radiance promotion has been plagued with several issues. First: It was unclear which paying customers qualified. Many customers have complained that they should have qualified but did not receive the stone. Second: Now that "everyone" has the stone, customers that transferred money into the game in connection to this promotion feel cheated. In either case, there are customers that will be much more cautious about "paying into" Cryptic's (or PWE's) future promotions.
Giving the customers with "legitimate access to the Ioun Stone of Radiance" something extra may help with this issue, but it will not solve it completely. If you are still hung up on "Don't reward the exploiters!" read section 1 above. Personally, I would love to get something extra for the $10 I transferred into the game, however I'm not holding my breath as I know realistically I'm in a small minority having taken part in the promotion.
These issues of "cheating" and "consumer confidence" are very closely related in connection to the Ioun Stone of Radiance event, however they need to be addressed separately by Cryptic and PWE. I am hoping they do a better job addressing these issues in the near future because I love Neverwinter and really hope it succeeds and continues to be developed for a long time.
They are not going to roll back. They didn't for things like the Nightmare, which among other things led to thinking everyone riding one was an exploiter because there were so many exploit mares versus legit purchased ones. The sum punishment I expect to be basically zero based on the response to previous exploits.
Anyone seriously expecting large scale 'punishment' of 'exploiters' from last night needs to give their head a bang. Consider...
1. Every single 'exploiter' was a paying customer. Someone who had recently transferred at least 1000Z into the game.
2. These are the people actually paying the wages of the devs.
3. Banning these people will cost the game a lot of money as they clearly won't be spending any more cash on a game they can't play.
4. The 'exploit' will have an extremely limited impact in game. If any at all.
Being a paying custom doesn't give you the right to exploit. The fact that they've mostly ignored exploiters for so long means that people don't feel bad for doing so.
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djynniMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Well then! I’m kind of glad I didn't buy the Zen when I received the email. With this exploit, I would have been a bit peeved if I had.
As for everyone now having a stone, well that’s not the case. Some of us have to spend long periods of time away from the game and have no idea what is transpiring during that time. Even if I had known, I wouldn't have partaken in the exploit. Just not my style.
I don’t think they will roll back or remove any exploited stones. About the only thing they can do is make amends with the people who have purchased Zen by offering another (better) promotion. Just a suggestion.
You are not alone.
This exactly. And what all these incidents mean to me is that there is no point in buying Zen or going out of my way to get anything "special" because it won't actually be special. Do I care that everyone has something? Only if it was advertised as something rare that only certain people will get for doing something.
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dextromanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited March 2014
It's not only about money (and how much is this pet worth etc) it's just about doing what is right and wrong
and PWE just proved (again) what will they do when exploits,bug abuse or cheating happens
so now many people (who stayed with this game even after Caturday/Nightmare etc)
will ask themselves am I really gonna support this kind of company ?
(not only with money but also with my time / presence in this game)
There where many right things to do (many people wrote about them)
and there was a wrong thing to do and this is what PWE choose to do - NOTHING and act like nothing happened.
They are not going to roll back. They didn't for things like the Nightmare, which among other things led to thinking everyone riding one was an exploiter because there were so many exploit mares versus legit purchased ones. The sum punishment I expect to be basically zero based on the response to previous exploits.
I had received a stone legitimately when the promotion was live, so to me it matters very little. Am I upset that others who did not spend a dime on the game are leaching? slightly, but no biggie since I could care less what these freeloaders have, it doesn't effect my enjoyment.
However, that being said.. I think cryptic should give ALL players a free stone of radiance, or else it's like a big slap in the face to those who either didn't partake ( for fear of repercussion , or morals etc) or those who didn't manage to log in during the time. They should also give another "thank you" item to all those who originally qualified for the stone and who did not take more then one per toon ( if that's possible, not sure but should be )
Hi guys I just wanted to chime in on this one. From a developer standpoint, I feel that they did the right thing in this situation. Cryptic stemmed the bleeding from and open wound without destroying all the event farming that people had done. As it will go down in the books, there was 1 day in which everyone that didn't have a stone could get one for free. Not everyone who plays signed in on that day but the problem was so large they either had to rollback and kill everyones Tymora progress. Instead of doing something disruptive Cryptic opted to take this one on the chin. The flow of stones has been stemmed and the effect from them being BoE for a day will fade in time. TBH I found the whole thing quite comical with people on the street corners literally handing out stones by the dozen.
Comments
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
A bug is an error leading to an unintended consequence of a computer software/program. In this case, someone touched something he shouldn't have. Like a pricing mistake, or a mislabel. If your cash registrar makes the wrong total, it's a bug. If you put a wrong price on an item, it's human mistake.
Oh? you mean like the nightmarepocalypse? I remember building/farming my butt off for keys bought with ad to zen transfer, and/or ah merching. Then i use said keys on lockboxes BEFORE the addition. Lo and behold, what do i see the next morning, AFTER i went and spent all my precious ad to try to get a 1 up on the market? BAM! everyone who opens 3 out of 4 lockboxes or whatever gets a free nightmare?! really?! And before you get all "it cost money though" no it didnt. All you had to do was buy a few keys, and the flood of nightmares you got put you soooo far in the green, you had more money than you could handle. As far as the problem with the ioun stone, yes i think something should be done. But whining about it not being fixed, whereas nothing was done about the nightmarepocalypse, is hypocritical. The ioun stone came free. Yes, you had to do something to get it, but that was simply buying zen. You didnt use said zen to purchase them, did you? It was a promo, and while i understand people who charged the zen should feel screwed that it didnt matter, IT DIDNT COST YOU ANYTHING. The nightmarepocalypse didnt either, but people were able to make a hell of a lot more from them.
I got no stone. Which stone is it? How do you get the stone?
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Could be an incredibly long wait.
The current response to exploits tends to be to (slowly) get round to fixing it, and then, err, well actually that is the current response....
How Cryptic deals with the actual exploiters has yet to be seen.
I hope they do something to punish the exploiters, but taking down and/or rolling back the server would've just punished the rest of the people who weren't doing anything wrong.
You have to make sure that the action you take is proportional to the damage done.
^This. 10char
Locksheon Gaming
Follow me on Twitch - Youtube - Facebook!
1. Every single 'exploiter' was a paying customer. Someone who had recently transferred at least 1000Z into the game.
2. These are the people actually paying the wages of the devs.
3. Banning these people will cost the game a lot of money as they clearly won't be spending any more cash on a game they can't play.
4. The 'exploit' will have an extremely limited impact in game. If any at all.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And 'justice'? Who has been wronged, exactly?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And now you want to take the stone away from me? Do I get a refund from you?
This is true. And I guess trying to make it up to the people who did transfer ZEN by offering another gift would only reward the people who were exploiting anyway seeing as how they're the ones who transferred ZEN! lol!
It all came back around today with the huge nerf to Tymora's Gift drop rates. I'm fairly sure the drop rates were reduced by 66%.
Locksheon Gaming
Follow me on Twitch - Youtube - Facebook!
This, why are ppl so mad about it? We all know Cryptic, PWE encourage exploiting by 1) not penalizing exploiters, 2) not stoping players from using the exploits as soon as they are discovered 3) forcing the playerbase to create it's own legit player channel. I mean really ppl the issue is how things are handle as a whole not this one specific incident.
And that players had to create a /Legit channel should, by itself, show everyone how seriously Cryptic views exploits.
As for everyone now having a stone, well that’s not the case. Some of us have to spend long periods of time away from the game and have no idea what is transpiring during that time. Even if I had known, I wouldn't have partaken in the exploit. Just not my style.
I don’t think they will roll back or remove any exploited stones. About the only thing they can do is make amends with the people who have purchased Zen by offering another (better) promotion. Just a suggestion.
You are not alone.
I don't blame PWI, most people are just hypocrites, they only care about exploits when they haven't got any advantage.
Never saw someone stay behind and don't jump Delzoun gate.
1- Cryptic needs to be much more transparent on what constitutes cheating and what the penalties for cheating are. People here keep using the word "exploit" in regards to the Ioun Stone event, however there is a problem with that: In this game we are playing as adventurers who are quite actively exploiting people in a bad situation for our own personal gain. You can cherry coat it as helping out the unfortunate; but bottom line the player character is a looting, pillaging, murderous character that is doing quite well financially through these actions. With a setting such as this, of course people are going to do whatever they can to get ahead in the game.
Be it selling illegitimate stones or taking shortcuts to make their loot runs shorter. Actions like this are all par for the course and punishing players for them without making it clear they are cheating is very bad form. For the record, I was one of the people who were speaking out against yesterday's profiteering and did not take part partially because I did not wish to risk a perma ban on an account I've spent a lot of time and a little bit of money.
2- Cyptic is a business and MUST preserve it's paying customers' confidence in order to keep them as repeat paying customers. Bottom line, Cryptic must make money or the game shuts down. If players do not see value in the things Cryptic sells for real money or in the promotions Cryptic runs, they will not give Cryptic the needed money to keep the game running. This Ioun Stone of Radiance promotion may have done more harm than good in regards to the confidence of paying customers.
The Ioun Stone of Radiance promotion has been plagued with several issues. First: It was unclear which paying customers qualified. Many customers have complained that they should have qualified but did not receive the stone. Second: Now that "everyone" has the stone, customers that transferred money into the game in connection to this promotion feel cheated. In either case, there are customers that will be much more cautious about "paying into" Cryptic's (or PWE's) future promotions.
Giving the customers with "legitimate access to the Ioun Stone of Radiance" something extra may help with this issue, but it will not solve it completely. If you are still hung up on "Don't reward the exploiters!" read section 1 above. Personally, I would love to get something extra for the $10 I transferred into the game, however I'm not holding my breath as I know realistically I'm in a small minority having taken part in the promotion.
These issues of "cheating" and "consumer confidence" are very closely related in connection to the Ioun Stone of Radiance event, however they need to be addressed separately by Cryptic and PWE. I am hoping they do a better job addressing these issues in the near future because I love Neverwinter and really hope it succeeds and continues to be developed for a long time.
Being a paying custom doesn't give you the right to exploit. The fact that they've mostly ignored exploiters for so long means that people don't feel bad for doing so.
This exactly. And what all these incidents mean to me is that there is no point in buying Zen or going out of my way to get anything "special" because it won't actually be special. Do I care that everyone has something? Only if it was advertised as something rare that only certain people will get for doing something.
and PWE just proved (again) what will they do when exploits,bug abuse or cheating happens
so now many people (who stayed with this game even after Caturday/Nightmare etc)
will ask themselves am I really gonna support this kind of company ?
(not only with money but also with my time / presence in this game)
There where many right things to do (many people wrote about them)
and there was a wrong thing to do and this is what PWE choose to do - NOTHING and act like nothing happened.
I had received a stone legitimately when the promotion was live, so to me it matters very little. Am I upset that others who did not spend a dime on the game are leaching? slightly, but no biggie since I could care less what these freeloaders have, it doesn't effect my enjoyment.
However, that being said.. I think cryptic should give ALL players a free stone of radiance, or else it's like a big slap in the face to those who either didn't partake ( for fear of repercussion , or morals etc) or those who didn't manage to log in during the time. They should also give another "thank you" item to all those who originally qualified for the stone and who did not take more then one per toon ( if that's possible, not sure but should be )