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schweifer1982
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
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After many test millions of spended AD and zen 27 respec tokens different gears enchants builds i found this out:
GF is the joke of all tank classes (all Class can be a better tank if y spend the same amount of AD and Zen on it,& all class can be a better tank in both pvp and pve"even CW too") . Too slow no Dps no tankiness both in pvp and pve. No matter if y have 25k GS or 18k GS other tankbuilds.
Suggestion :
Remove Guardian Figther from Game and introduce new Realy Usefull Tank Class like :Paladin
Reason : Quelle biggest hit req 1 GF for random party (GF population is around 100 ppl how try what i try but ether they dont have enugh money or patience to test all things out).Or at least change it to GWF the new tank of NW.
PS: Why i put this on preview cuz i test the new skills builds anything what can make this class soo usefull as it was before Stalwart nerf.
2 PS: if y can prove i am wrong pls link a video or build how can someone equale the race against other classes in NW ,same amount of money AD zen spend.
After many test millions of spended AD and zen 27 respec tokens different gears enchants builds i found this out:
GF is the joke of all tank classes (all Class can be a better tank if y spend the same amount of AD and Zen on it,& all class can be a better tank in both pvp and pve"even CW too") . Too slow no Dps no tankiness both in pvp and pve. No matter if y have 25k GS or 18k GS other tankbuilds.
Suggestion :
Remove Guardian Figther from Game and introduce new Realy Usefull Tank Class like :Paladin
Reason : Quelle biggest hit req 1 GF for random party (GF population is around 100 ppl how try what i try but ether they dont have enugh money or patience to test all things out).Or at least change it to GWF the new tank of NW.
PS: Why i put this on preview cuz i test the new skills builds anything what can make this class soo usefull as it was before Stalwart nerf.
2 PS: if y can prove i am wrong pls link a video or build how can someone equale the race against other classes in NW ,same amount of money AD zen spend.
GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
Post edited by schweifer1982 on
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But why shoud somone stuck with usless class if he can choose better ?And any old player have 4 CW or 5 CW waiting on friendlist
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
IMO, Fighter should have been its own class. You should have had the ability to use varying combinations of weaponry according to the Fighter path you chose (very early in the game) to go down (Weapon Talent, Battlerager, Tempest, Brawler) and then taken your Paragon Path after that.
It would have taken a longer time to balance, but the variety for players would have been worth it. This would have then freed up the "tank" role to be given to Paladins or Wardens.
Then again if I were to have had a say in the matter, Paragon Paths would be your second advancement instead of your first, happening at Lv40. Your first advancement would be a Path choice (Fighter-based examples listed above) at Lv10 or so, just before your Tab mechanic becomes available.
Fighter -> Weapon Talent/Battlerager/etc. -> Paragon Path
Ranger -> Hunter/Scout -> Paragon Path
Wizard -> Bladesinger/Mage/Sha'ir/Witch -> Paragon Path
Cleric -> Templar/Warpriest -> Paragon Path
Rogue -> Scoundrel/Thief -> Paragon Path
Again, a lot to balance but also a lot of variety. If they're going to use the D&D license, there's no reason not to get the absolute most out of it.
We only have the weak classes from 4e D&D .
This is why we cant have balance VS CW the true king in NW(can tank/controll/ Awesome DPS/good in pvp/ and king in pve).
Not sure what you are doing wrong, considered you must have sepnt tons of cash on respecs etc. A gf deals more damage than GWF, it can tank better, cc better and on top of that has a shield. If you specced right, the shield can sustain quite a good bit of damage, while conquerors tend to be the squishiest GF variant and i think that's the problem you are describing. Try to run FH without a GF and let a GWF pick up all the adds at the final boss. It's not gonna happen.
I run FH frequently with my Destroyer GWF. Not a problem at all. It's much more work than with my Conq GF in GG gear, but it's very manageable.
I generally agree that GFs are underappreciated. I would love to field my Conq GF with KC more often. It hands out sizable damage with 10k+ power and 20% crit while buffing everyone around by a decent margin with the set, GPF and Marks. Not sure how you are able to outdamage GWFs though, this isn't remotely possible.
Not sure what you are talking about but i have never seen a GF out DPS a GWF, their WPN base damage has a huge difference(this alone determine their damage) if you are saying that GF has a conqueror path (PWR stat) can't even compare to the wpn base damage of a sword vs 2 handed sword.
a GWF can CC any opponent the sameway a GF can (since they have IV paragon). so the argument of a GF can cc better is invalid.
the main problem here is. how under powered a GF vs other classes. Tab ability anyone?
Right, that's why a GF can crit 80k+ and a GWF can crit 30k (no vorpal). Knight's challenge is a great skill.
GF have Griffon's wrath which makes their cc better than the GWF's cc. (obviously)
If you are referring to knights challenge to hit that 80k crit, then you are clearly defining that a GF can out DPS everybody because of 1 single encounter power?
and you can't even hit 80k crit on a GF without a vorpal and vs a GWF no vorpal?
do you even know how long it takes to release the griffon wrath skill? (its not even optimal and CC? what are you talking about a split second cc is not considered a cc
Merge the classes so its called a "fighter". Wield a 2H weapon and you get Unstoppable/Sprint, wield a shield+Sword and you gain block and mark.
Inorder to avoid abusing this change, eliminate weapon/armor changing DURING combat. Now a Fighter can play 2h for DPS for 1h/s for tanking better.
They already have the same paragon paths, just make them the same class already!
Since that WONT happen, the only way to balance a GF would be to make block NOT based on damage taken but just a time drain, and THEN remove target caps on enforced threat and frontline surge and give GFs the same stat benefits as GWFs - STR = more dmg Con = ARP/HP and DEX = Crit/Deflect
Then GFs can stack DEX for extra crit (putting them in the high 20 to low 30% without really losing much...
This will make GFs beastly in PVE and also much stronger in PVP.
Being a tank means being able to survive AND keeping the mobs around you. I've never had anyone taken aggro off of me from mobs. And I don't think there is another class that can achieve the same.
However, GF is absolutely under-appreciated. Just look at all the posts in this thread talking about DPS. I don't give a rat's *** about how much DPS I can dish out on my GF, and I shouldn't have to. This is not a GF problem, it's the game's balance being skewed.
In WoW and a lot of other MMOs, if you go into a dungeon without a tank, you wipe, period. That should be how it is.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
The few left in this game and know me(know i have tank GWF) ,and y can see it too in signature i have GWF too.
I can perfectly tank FH without any problems (with my GWF).
Actualy i can tank with my GWF all current dungeons even Tos Final boss !
2 dung not req any tank currenty Epic DV & CN.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
pls READ original post
2 PS: if y can prove i am wrong pls link a video or build how can someone equale the race against other classes in NW ,same amount of money AD zen spend.
+1
This is EXACTLY how dungeons should be designed. No messing around with 5 DPS "for the lulz" and because yolo.
You go in without tank and without heals, first mob pack wipes you.
But even this extremely simple MMO concept seems to be too hard to implement here.
Ofc is going to happen
Been doing FH with GWF instead of GF even before M1. DC works fine as well. So... yeah.
Also kiting is not really tanking lol. It's just a joke the sort you can only find in this game. Poor GFs.
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GF doesn't have 1/2 the effective DPS of a GWF, just because you have a hard hitting encounter doesn't mean you're going to deal more DPS overall, Still i've had Cresendo hit as high as 133k with team buffs and im 13k GS.
GF just doesn't work, the Tab mechanic for this class is a poor joke, no real dodges, no runspeed, slow animations, heavy diminishing returns from high defence, GF doesn't do anything special. Having another person in my team not doing DPS is just going to increase the chance of wiping (ironically).
GWF can kite FH better than GF, unstoppable + puishing charge + bravery + sprint = cakewalk.
I bet a GWF with high GS and perhaps just a bit more defensive setup can be a more effective at tanking than a GF. Unstoppable is already way better mitigation skill than that lame block, lifesteal heals us better, and we are inmune to CC most of the time.
Disagree.
TAB + Enforced Threat and I have a train of Trolls and Golems. Don't even need the DC. I explicitly tell them to ignore me and go debuff Hrimnir.
And once I've done that only an r-tard of a CW dropping AOEs or an HR attacking them will pull them off of me while I bet a GWF has to continually attack the adds to keep them interested.
The GF has issues but one thing it can do is hold aggro better than anything else other than a HR, but that is because there is a serious issue with that class. I have run with 2 CW/1 GWF & 1 CW/2 GWF (all north of 14k GS) and none of them will pull aggro away from me unless it is a CW and s/he decides to have brain failure and pops an AOE on my train of adds. I routinely provide my two guildie GWFs with combat advantage during pulls and boss fights.
I do agree though that GFs do need a little more love. I don't like the idea of pinball style, prone lock gameplay, but I would love to see them be able to tank better than every other class, even GWF, since that is what they're suppose to be able to do if specced full tank.
Devs have flat out stated that they don't want tanks to be neccesary (but then again, in that case: Why does the queue require a GF?). How you make a tank desirable if it is not really needed is a mistery to me. Suffice to say I am highly skeptical that it is possible at all.
I think there should be a different view to the above quote. I think you are right a GF or DC specifically should not be NEEDED. But I think some defensive builds should be needed. Just give different classes tank trees of there own, like GWFs sentinel. There is nothing wrong with having defensive CWs or GWFs IF 1 or 2 defensive build are required to finish an epic dungeon. If you make dungeons easily possible / or even easier without some defensive builds you make all defensive builds useless
TBH...have not noticed significant damage change as a GF. It is just easier to understand now.
Before: 25 power = +1 damage on cleave, but who knows how many on other skills.
Now: 160 power= +1% damage on everything.
Other classes may be more affected.
They already do at least for GF and GWF, but what they need now is for dungeons to be balanced such that different path are required. if not dps paths will always win and noone wants to have more defensive paths.
Lunging strike reduced dmg by 8-10%
Crescendo increased dmg by 10-15%.
All the other the same