Perhaps you could update your guide by including the concept of RP to AD ratio, how this ratio is arrived at, and when it is best to refine enchantments vs. when it is better to sell the enchantment and take the AD instead.
because that is a play style and a personal choice. this guide is only meant to provide the basics. back before fury of the feywild dropped, i was only building rank 7 darks, azures and radiants to sell on the AH as they were the most profitable. now, there is a whole new world out there because i could choose to sell a rank 7 enchant with a completely filled RP bar, ready to be upgraded (less the reagents, of course) vs an empty rank 7.
before the change, people would sell stacks of 16 and 20 rank 5s, putting the risk of loss on the buyer. now every enchant has a point value. some may choose to farm and sell rank 4 stacks. while the new system is more complex than the old fusion system, if you don't change your strategies then you will have difficulty adapting.
list of required reagents for enchant/runestone upgrades
R1 = 1 minor mark
R2 = 2 minor marks
R3 = 1 lesser mark
R4 = 2 lesser marks
R5 = 1 mark
R6 = 2 marks
R7 = 1 greater mark + 1 same R7
R8 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R8
R9 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R9
I just have to respond to all of the whining about the system being difficult to understand, or that it doesn't solve the bag space problem.
I rolled up two new characters when the new module went live, and have been playing them from scratch without using any enchants that I have accumulated on my other characters. I have found the new system easy to understand. People are over-thinking it. Simply slot the enchants that you have slots for and use the rest that you pick up as RP for the ones that you have slotted. The bag space used for enchants and marks is much less than under the old system.
Under the old system, I was forced to use my mail box as storage space for enchants and I couldn't clear out my bags until I was able to get to a mail box. Now, if my bags start filling up, I can just pause for a minute and feed a bunch of RP into enchants that are slotted... problem solved.
IMO the system is much better than the old system.
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
edited December 2013
I just wanted to add my two cents worth,
Firstly thanks for the guide and for the various contributors advice. From my perspective as a casual player there are a number of things I like about the new system gold instead of AD to remove enchantments and the concept of upgrading the socket-ed enchantments, What I dislike is the increased AD / Zen sink. Coalescent wards were already rare/expensive and now with marks being added in to the mix leveling any shard based enchantment is going to take forever or be completely cost prohibitive. My suggestion would be pick one or the other. If you must have both how about adding additional wards that have 90% ,80% 70% chance off success that are more common / higher drop rate and have a much lower cost (purchase for AD).
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Finally got an answer to one of my questions. So thanks for the guide.
My gripe is having to spend AD for reagents AND wards for higher lvl/rank enchants etc. Reagents need scrapped from the system.
PS. Yes I know some reagents drop in dungeons, however I don't play in them much. Plus I hear it's rare you see them. Hours and hours for a slight chance for an upgrade reagent is insane.
There are other components required, too, aren't there? Am I missing something?
you do need to feed refinement points into your target upgrade item. in this case, a lesser enhancement to get to a normal. then the normal to get to a greater. and then a greater to get to a perfect. shards that are identical to the item you're upgrading provide the most RP, however you can add any item with a refinement point value to your target upgrade item.
[QUOTE=obsiddia;6691281I've played AD&D since 1st ed., all the computer games (including the AOL Neverwinter)
and read over 100 of the books... If this stuff confuses and annoys me, what do you
think a complete newb will think of the game now?
We need to keep growing the user base, or the game dies. It always works that way.[/QUOTE]
I am of a similar mindset. I would like to think of myself of a reasonably intelligent person, who has been involved in programming 1 way or another for over 25 years. Despite this knowledge base, it took me quite a bit time using Google on this subject to learn how the system works. I have been playing around with it for awhile now and I think I have a handle on it... but I would NOT want to try to figure this out as a new user to the game. It would be far too intimidating.
It's not that hard, i figured it out thru trial and error. But it does no good if you can't upgrade the enchantments after refining them.
Since this update i have found only 3 of the minor reagents (gray ones). 1 blue one and about 8 green ones, only purple ones i have gotten were from dread ring towers.
So this does not save inventory space as you say as all my enchantments are refined and ready to upgrade. Now im just selling stacks of 99 on AH to make room.
Earlier i was storing Rank1-5 enchants in my bag, so it always took 20 bag space.
I don't have reagents/wards to keep upgrading enchantments as soon as i obtain lower ranks nor i need to do it, so they still use 20 bag space, only now there are marks of potency, various types of refining stones, four wards (preservation and coalescent, bound and unbound), also enchantments with refinement points that don't stack and take even more bag space.
Has the new system solved the bag space issue? NO, it made it worse.
It's nice that you can upgrade slotted enchants, i like lower removing costs and i guess it's ok that you can use any enchants for refining (though i never do it).
But reagents are very expensive, for upgrading you need TWO of the same enchantments at higher ranks and NOW 7 day invocation bag almost never gives preservation/coalescent wards, so they got much more expensive.
Why so complicated? It's not fun. At all!! Make it expensive if you need to, but don't add 100 different items and a complicated set of rules for enchanting.
There are too many tokens/currencies in the game already.
All things considered, i'd take the old refining system back.
I don't find the new system hard to understand. As an active player though, who regularly does DD events, dungeon runs with guildies, etc etc.. I have yet to see a blue mark drop. I've seen greens, purples, and various gems.. but no blue marks.
That's nuts. I'd love to upgrade my r5's to r6's but I can't, unless I want to buy the marks.
Thank you for the guide, it's pretty straight forward on how everything works. I understand using the same type of enchantments for RP, while refining the same type of enchantment gives 2x bonus on RP. My question is about Armor, weapon enchantments and artifacts. Is there anything that gives a bonus to the RP on those? And what items are best to use on those? Which give the most RP? These seem to need an extremely large amount of RP to refine higher levels.... I didn't see this mentioned, sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread.
Thank you for the guide, it's pretty straight forward on how everything works. I understand using the same type of enchantments for RP, while refining the same type of enchantment gives 2x bonus on RP. My question is about Armor, weapon enchantments and artifacts. Is there anything that gives a bonus to the RP on those? And what items are best to use on those? Which give the most RP? These seem to need an extremely large amount of RP to refine higher levels.... I didn't see this mentioned, sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread.
Look at the wiki about enchanting. It's really easy to understand.
The 'Best' way for refining is dependent on two things: Best RP or Best RP/AD value.(the last mustn't cost any ad)
Best RP for normal Enchantment:
Enchantment of the same type.
Best RP for epic Enchantment(the most Armor and Body):
Shards of the same type.
Best RP for Artifacts:
Stones of the same artifact type/Artifact type itself/Marks of same artifact type
Best RP/AD for normal Enchantment:
Look what RP something give for you and what it cost. For example:
R3 azure give 45 RP base value. While it give 90 RP for any azure refining, it's only 45 for all other(except Artifacts, which gain the same 90 RP from it). So an azure R3 cost you maybe 20 Ad. Now you will refine the dark enchantment R3. But the dark enchantment cost 45 Ad. Now 45 RP/20 Ad = 2,25 RP/AD for using an azure R3 as RP-giver. For a dark R3 as RP giver you have only have a quote to pay 90 RP/45 Ad = 2 RP/AD! This is lesser RP for your ad as with the azure. So you use azure as RP-giver instead of dark ones, because in the total it's cheaper!
Best RP/AD for epic Enchantment:
Make it like above. Calculated how you get as most RP for your Ad!
Best RP/AD for Artifacts:
Same as above(with one Tip: The free Greater Marks from the dungeon give 750 as nonmatching and 3,750 as matching marktype and they are free 5/7 a week!)
The worst RP giver for artifacts are the RP-gems. They don't get the 5x bonus. Even the 2x bonus they don't get! RP-gems are most used(in my case) for enchantments, that come from lockboxes for example. Like Tene/Plaguefire. But again: Other sources of RP-giver may are cheaper!
Thank you for your response and I will check out wiki as well. I understand the mechanics of the newer refining system pretty well. I was just trying to figure out if there were bonus RP for the Epic enchantments and Artifacts. And what makes the better RP giver. I am also trying to keep from spending AD as much as possible. You pretty much answered my questions. Use Azure's and greater marks for RP givers, used in matching set's provide a greater RP bonus. Sound about right?
I've noticed in the "new"-"New" Refinement System (post The Tyranny of Dragons) when refining enchantments and companion runes a person may wind up with a 'odd number' like 1 , 3 , or 6 , for which there is no stone of combination of stones available to come up with an even number.
So now we are necessarily forced waste 2 to 4+ refinement points in order to upgrade the stone we are working on to the next highest value.
Previously remaining refinement points remaining were limited to 0 , 5 , 10 to 270 (the values of existing stones available in the game) points remaining for upgrade..
Yikes, there's a lot here to absorb. Steep, STEEP learning curve. Tag for future reference.
But, right now, I have one question:
Is there any way to REMOVE refining points before hitting that point-of-no-return "Upgrade" button? I put some items in there that I want back. I can't seem to fine an option to cancel the process. Sure, I can back out of the window, but the enchantment item still shows a full bar of refining points.
Comments
because that is a play style and a personal choice. this guide is only meant to provide the basics. back before fury of the feywild dropped, i was only building rank 7 darks, azures and radiants to sell on the AH as they were the most profitable. now, there is a whole new world out there because i could choose to sell a rank 7 enchant with a completely filled RP bar, ready to be upgraded (less the reagents, of course) vs an empty rank 7.
before the change, people would sell stacks of 16 and 20 rank 5s, putting the risk of loss on the buyer. now every enchant has a point value. some may choose to farm and sell rank 4 stacks. while the new system is more complex than the old fusion system, if you don't change your strategies then you will have difficulty adapting.
Rank 2->3: 2 minor marks of potency
Rank 3->4: 1 lesser mark of potency
Rank 4->5: 2 lesser marks of potency
I haven't gone any further personally, but I assume the pattern repeats at least to some extent.
list of required reagents for enchant/runestone upgrades
R1 = 1 minor mark
R2 = 2 minor marks
R3 = 1 lesser mark
R4 = 2 lesser marks
R5 = 1 mark
R6 = 2 marks
R7 = 1 greater mark + 1 same R7
R8 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R8
R9 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R9
I rolled up two new characters when the new module went live, and have been playing them from scratch without using any enchants that I have accumulated on my other characters. I have found the new system easy to understand. People are over-thinking it. Simply slot the enchants that you have slots for and use the rest that you pick up as RP for the ones that you have slotted. The bag space used for enchants and marks is much less than under the old system.
Under the old system, I was forced to use my mail box as storage space for enchants and I couldn't clear out my bags until I was able to get to a mail box. Now, if my bags start filling up, I can just pause for a minute and feed a bunch of RP into enchants that are slotted... problem solved.
IMO the system is much better than the old system.
Firstly thanks for the guide and for the various contributors advice. From my perspective as a casual player there are a number of things I like about the new system gold instead of AD to remove enchantments and the concept of upgrading the socket-ed enchantments, What I dislike is the increased AD / Zen sink. Coalescent wards were already rare/expensive and now with marks being added in to the mix leveling any shard based enchantment is going to take forever or be completely cost prohibitive. My suggestion would be pick one or the other. If you must have both how about adding additional wards that have 90% ,80% 70% chance off success that are more common / higher drop rate and have a much lower cost (purchase for AD).
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
My gripe is having to spend AD for reagents AND wards for higher lvl/rank enchants etc. Reagents need scrapped from the system.
PS. Yes I know some reagents drop in dungeons, however I don't play in them much. Plus I hear it's rare you see them. Hours and hours for a slight chance for an upgrade reagent is insane.
There are other components required, too, aren't there? Am I missing something?
you do need to feed refinement points into your target upgrade item. in this case, a lesser enhancement to get to a normal. then the normal to get to a greater. and then a greater to get to a perfect. shards that are identical to the item you're upgrading provide the most RP, however you can add any item with a refinement point value to your target upgrade item.
and read over 100 of the books... If this stuff confuses and annoys me, what do you
think a complete newb will think of the game now?
We need to keep growing the user base, or the game dies. It always works that way.[/QUOTE]
I am of a similar mindset. I would like to think of myself of a reasonably intelligent person, who has been involved in programming 1 way or another for over 25 years. Despite this knowledge base, it took me quite a bit time using Google on this subject to learn how the system works. I have been playing around with it for awhile now and I think I have a handle on it... but I would NOT want to try to figure this out as a new user to the game. It would be far too intimidating.
Since this update i have found only 3 of the minor reagents (gray ones). 1 blue one and about 8 green ones, only purple ones i have gotten were from dread ring towers.
So this does not save inventory space as you say as all my enchantments are refined and ready to upgrade. Now im just selling stacks of 99 on AH to make room.
Earlier i was storing Rank1-5 enchants in my bag, so it always took 20 bag space.
I don't have reagents/wards to keep upgrading enchantments as soon as i obtain lower ranks nor i need to do it, so they still use 20 bag space, only now there are marks of potency, various types of refining stones, four wards (preservation and coalescent, bound and unbound), also enchantments with refinement points that don't stack and take even more bag space.
Has the new system solved the bag space issue? NO, it made it worse.
It's nice that you can upgrade slotted enchants, i like lower removing costs and i guess it's ok that you can use any enchants for refining (though i never do it).
But reagents are very expensive, for upgrading you need TWO of the same enchantments at higher ranks and NOW 7 day invocation bag almost never gives preservation/coalescent wards, so they got much more expensive.
Why so complicated? It's not fun. At all!! Make it expensive if you need to, but don't add 100 different items and a complicated set of rules for enchanting.
There are too many tokens/currencies in the game already.
All things considered, i'd take the old refining system back.
That's nuts. I'd love to upgrade my r5's to r6's but I can't, unless I want to buy the marks.
Look at the wiki about enchanting. It's really easy to understand.
The 'Best' way for refining is dependent on two things: Best RP or Best RP/AD value.(the last mustn't cost any ad)
Best RP for normal Enchantment:
Enchantment of the same type.
Best RP for epic Enchantment(the most Armor and Body):
Shards of the same type.
Best RP for Artifacts:
Stones of the same artifact type/Artifact type itself/Marks of same artifact type
Best RP/AD for normal Enchantment:
Look what RP something give for you and what it cost. For example:
R3 azure give 45 RP base value. While it give 90 RP for any azure refining, it's only 45 for all other(except Artifacts, which gain the same 90 RP from it). So an azure R3 cost you maybe 20 Ad. Now you will refine the dark enchantment R3. But the dark enchantment cost 45 Ad. Now 45 RP/20 Ad = 2,25 RP/AD for using an azure R3 as RP-giver. For a dark R3 as RP giver you have only have a quote to pay 90 RP/45 Ad = 2 RP/AD! This is lesser RP for your ad as with the azure. So you use azure as RP-giver instead of dark ones, because in the total it's cheaper!
Best RP/AD for epic Enchantment:
Make it like above. Calculated how you get as most RP for your Ad!
Best RP/AD for Artifacts:
Same as above(with one Tip: The free Greater Marks from the dungeon give 750 as nonmatching and 3,750 as matching marktype and they are free 5/7 a week!)
The worst RP giver for artifacts are the RP-gems. They don't get the 5x bonus. Even the 2x bonus they don't get! RP-gems are most used(in my case) for enchantments, that come from lockboxes for example. Like Tene/Plaguefire. But again: Other sources of RP-giver may are cheaper!
I hope this help.
On the side note... this is one of the worst enchanting systems ever seen in any game.
So now we are necessarily forced waste 2 to 4+ refinement points in order to upgrade the stone we are working on to the next highest value.
Previously remaining refinement points remaining were limited to 0 , 5 , 10 to 270 (the values of existing stones available in the game) points remaining for upgrade..
WHY?
But, right now, I have one question:
Is there any way to REMOVE refining points before hitting that point-of-no-return "Upgrade" button? I put some items in there that I want back. I can't seem to fine an option to cancel the process. Sure, I can back out of the window, but the enchantment item still shows a full bar of refining points.
Your expertise is much appreciated!