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[Guide] Guide to the New Refinement System
melodywhr
Member Posts: 4,220 Arc User
we're going to be taking a simplified look at the new refinement system. the intent of this guide is to provide a simplified look at its basic mechanics. it is recommended to try it for yourself to get an overall feel for it. at the end of this post, there will be some numbers to look at as far as refinement point requirements and values are concerned just to give you an idea of what we're looking at aside from the pretty screenshots.
one of the major changes that surround the new refinement system is that the cost of removing enchants has been greatly decreased. instead of it having a high AD cost, it now only costs copper, silver and gold based on the rank of the enchant. at level 60, removing a greater vorpal will cost 2.5 gold.
another very important change is that you can now upgrade enchantments and runestones while you have them slotted. later on, i'll give an example of how these two things can help you better manage inventory space issues.
in our refinement example, i have a rank 5 dark enchantment i'm upgrading using rank 4 dark enchantments. this example does not pertain to armor and weapon enchantments (see the next section), but the basis is similar.
the screenshot shows all five of my rank 4 darks with their refinement points value (RP). you can use the button shown there to fill all of the slots OR you can drag and drop stacks or individual items into them. you can also right-click on individual items in the refinement slots to remove them.
because i'm using darks to upgrade my dark enchantment, it's giving me a 2x bonus value. i can use any refinement item to add RP to my upgrade item. if i had rank 4 azures instead, its individual value would be 135 RP.
i then keep feeding rank 4 darks into my rank 5 dark until i have all the points necessary for the upgrade. it is possible to go over the upgrade RP amount and these extra points will carry over to the upgraded item.
this shows my rank 5 with all the necessary RP to complete the upgrade. you should also notice that there is a "critical success" that happened with the last refinement that gave even more bonus RP. it is possible to get a critical success on all five of the refinement slots. the critical success amounts appear to be 50% and 100% over the existing bonus amount. in this case, it would be 405 RP and 540 RP.
if you look to the bottom right, there is a place for a reagent and for a ward. mark of potency, the reagent required for this process, can be purchased from the wondrous bazaar for 25k AD. it is also possible for this to drop in epic dungeon skill nodes. for me, ranking up from 5 to 6 has always required a preservation ward, so i have to get one. notice that since i do not have everything i need, the upgrade button is grayed out.
and then to the last shot, having all of my necessary items for my 30% chance of successs attempt to upgrade, the upgrade button is available and i can roll the dice and let RNG do its thing. if the upgrade is successful, the just the reagents are consumed. if the upgrade fails, just the ward is consumed. if i do not use a preservation ward and the upgrade fails, i lose my reagents. using a ward is important especially upgrading higher level enchants that require a same-level-and-type enchantment as one of the reagents.
some advantages of this over the fuse system is every enchantment and runestone has value. you don't need to refine lower rank items first to get a larger RP value. there is no advantage to upgrading items you intend to use for RP.
important information to have:
refinement point upgrade requirements
different/same RP item value
R1 > R2 = 20 RP
R2 > R3 = 60 RP
R3 > R4 = 180 RP
R4 > R5 = 810 RP
R5 > R6 = 3,240 RP
R6 > R7 = 12,960 RP
R7 > R8 = 34,560 RP
R8 > R9 = 103,680 RP
R9 > R10 = 311,040 RP
R1 = 5/10
R2 = 15/30
R3 = 45/90
R4 = 135/270
R5 = 540/1080
R6 = 2160/4320
R7 = 4320/8640
R8 = 12960/25920
R9 = 38880/77760
refine point requirements (not including reagents):
list of required reagents for enchant/runestone upgrades
R1 = 1 minor mark
R2 = 2 minor marks
R3 = 1 lesser mark
R4 = 2 lesser marks
R5 = 1 mark
R6 = 2 marks
R7 = 1 greater mark + 1 same R7
R8 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R8
R9 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R9
what to do if you find yourself with less bag space:
you don't need to keep an inventory of different enchants and runestones. you just keep feeding the ones you get into your slotted items that you want to upgrade. this is a HUGE improvement over the old system. you can upgrade enchants/runestones that are currently slotted into your gear/companions. because the cost to unslot items was greatly reduced, you can use one set of enchants to transfer between different gear sets for different styles of play.
you may run into problems if you're trying to upgrade many items at once in your inventory. this is because items that have been fed RP will no longer stack.
there is no advantage to upgrading items before using them for refinement points. this means if you use 12 rank 3s or 1 rank 5, you're getting the same amount of refine points.
in the next section, we'll take a look at upgrading weapon and armor enchantments.
you can also reference this official dev blog by Chris Matz, lead systems designer giving some insight on the new refinement system.
neverwinter wiki - refinement
one of the major changes that surround the new refinement system is that the cost of removing enchants has been greatly decreased. instead of it having a high AD cost, it now only costs copper, silver and gold based on the rank of the enchant. at level 60, removing a greater vorpal will cost 2.5 gold.
another very important change is that you can now upgrade enchantments and runestones while you have them slotted. later on, i'll give an example of how these two things can help you better manage inventory space issues.
in our refinement example, i have a rank 5 dark enchantment i'm upgrading using rank 4 dark enchantments. this example does not pertain to armor and weapon enchantments (see the next section), but the basis is similar.
the screenshot shows all five of my rank 4 darks with their refinement points value (RP). you can use the button shown there to fill all of the slots OR you can drag and drop stacks or individual items into them. you can also right-click on individual items in the refinement slots to remove them.
because i'm using darks to upgrade my dark enchantment, it's giving me a 2x bonus value. i can use any refinement item to add RP to my upgrade item. if i had rank 4 azures instead, its individual value would be 135 RP.
i then keep feeding rank 4 darks into my rank 5 dark until i have all the points necessary for the upgrade. it is possible to go over the upgrade RP amount and these extra points will carry over to the upgraded item.
this shows my rank 5 with all the necessary RP to complete the upgrade. you should also notice that there is a "critical success" that happened with the last refinement that gave even more bonus RP. it is possible to get a critical success on all five of the refinement slots. the critical success amounts appear to be 50% and 100% over the existing bonus amount. in this case, it would be 405 RP and 540 RP.
if you look to the bottom right, there is a place for a reagent and for a ward. mark of potency, the reagent required for this process, can be purchased from the wondrous bazaar for 25k AD. it is also possible for this to drop in epic dungeon skill nodes. for me, ranking up from 5 to 6 has always required a preservation ward, so i have to get one. notice that since i do not have everything i need, the upgrade button is grayed out.
and then to the last shot, having all of my necessary items for my 30% chance of successs attempt to upgrade, the upgrade button is available and i can roll the dice and let RNG do its thing. if the upgrade is successful, the just the reagents are consumed. if the upgrade fails, just the ward is consumed. if i do not use a preservation ward and the upgrade fails, i lose my reagents. using a ward is important especially upgrading higher level enchants that require a same-level-and-type enchantment as one of the reagents.
some advantages of this over the fuse system is every enchantment and runestone has value. you don't need to refine lower rank items first to get a larger RP value. there is no advantage to upgrading items you intend to use for RP.
important information to have:
refinement point upgrade requirements
different/same RP item value
R1 > R2 = 20 RP
R2 > R3 = 60 RP
R3 > R4 = 180 RP
R4 > R5 = 810 RP
R5 > R6 = 3,240 RP
R6 > R7 = 12,960 RP
R7 > R8 = 34,560 RP
R8 > R9 = 103,680 RP
R9 > R10 = 311,040 RP
R1 = 5/10
R2 = 15/30
R3 = 45/90
R4 = 135/270
R5 = 540/1080
R6 = 2160/4320
R7 = 4320/8640
R8 = 12960/25920
R9 = 38880/77760
refine point requirements (not including reagents):
- it takes 3 of the same item to upgrade from r1 to r2.
- it takes 3 of the same item to upgrade from r2 to r3.
- it takes 3 of the same item to upgrade from r3 to r4.
- it takes 4 of the same item to upgrade from r4 to r5.
- it takes 4 of the same item to upgrade from r5 to r6.
- it takes 4 of the same item to upgrade from r6 to r7.
- it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r7 to r8.
- it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r8 to r9.
- it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r9 to r10.
list of required reagents for enchant/runestone upgrades
R1 = 1 minor mark
R2 = 2 minor marks
R3 = 1 lesser mark
R4 = 2 lesser marks
R5 = 1 mark
R6 = 2 marks
R7 = 1 greater mark + 1 same R7
R8 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R8
R9 = 2 greater mark + 1 same R9
what to do if you find yourself with less bag space:
you don't need to keep an inventory of different enchants and runestones. you just keep feeding the ones you get into your slotted items that you want to upgrade. this is a HUGE improvement over the old system. you can upgrade enchants/runestones that are currently slotted into your gear/companions. because the cost to unslot items was greatly reduced, you can use one set of enchants to transfer between different gear sets for different styles of play.
you may run into problems if you're trying to upgrade many items at once in your inventory. this is because items that have been fed RP will no longer stack.
there is no advantage to upgrading items before using them for refinement points. this means if you use 12 rank 3s or 1 rank 5, you're getting the same amount of refine points.
in the next section, we'll take a look at upgrading weapon and armor enchantments.
you can also reference this official dev blog by Chris Matz, lead systems designer giving some insight on the new refinement system.
neverwinter wiki - refinement
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4 elven battle shards
1 coalescent ward
that's all!
there is no adding RP at all when creating a lesser armor or weapon enchant. you just click the upgrade button and you get a nice success message:
to create a normal elven battle enchantment, you'll need two lessers, a coalescent ward and a greater mark of potency. one lesser is your target enchantment and the other is one of your reagents. so to get two lessers, you need to follow the previous instruction again except this time, you will need to add some refinement points to your target enchantment. you can do this by adding any enchantment, runestone, shard or refinement point item such as a pearl or a peridot.
probably the best item to use is going to be the elven battle shards because since they are of the same type of the item you're upgrading, they have a chance to hit a "critical success" and providing more refinement points overall. just like in our previous example, it can provide 50% or 100% of RP value in addition to its existing 8x bonus value. RP value of any other shard = 540 RP.
to upgrade from normal elven battle to a greater one, you will need to repeat the previous steps so you will have two normals, one coalescent ward and two greater marks of potency. you will also need to add refinement points to your target enchantment. if by some chance you have extra refinement points in your reagent, they will not count towards your upgrade target. when you click the upgrade button, you will get a warning notifying you of this.
and the same goes for creating a perfect. you need one greater as the target for refinement points and one greater to act as the reagent in addition to your coalescent ward and two greater marks of potency.
overall, you will need 32 shards (excluding refinement point materials), 9 greater marks of potency and 15 coalescent wards.
lesser \
normal \
lesser /
greater \
lesser \
normal /
lesser /
>perfect
lesser \
normal \
lesser /
greater /
lesser \
normal /
lesser /
this process is not going to be fast unless you have a surplus of shards. in the old system, to fuse a perfect enchantment required 256 shards and 85 coalescent wards. that's a lot of grinding. with the new refinement system, you can have your target enchantment slotted while you feed it RP and you could also be building the reagent enchantment taking up a single spot in your inventory--each shard or enchant you get could be fed into either the target or the reagent. and you definitely won't need as many materials as you used to.
in the next segment, we'll discuss artifacts and their upgrade process.
artifacts are designed to level up with your character and you get your first one at level 20. characters already at level 60 can get the same quest from sergeant knox as well as mail containing a number of refining stones. at level 60, you also unlock two secondary artifact slots.
like enchantments, artifacts need to be fed refinement points to progress. they can be fed enchantments, runestones, refinement stones and even other artifacts. each level of progression works up towards upgrading the artifact from one quality to the next. to upgrade from uncommon to rare, you need to add enough refinement points to reach level 29. each level increases the stat rating. each quality increases the power's effects/damage. for example, for the lantern of revelation, from level 5 to level 7 its bonus stat of critical strike jumps up from +66 to +78. the damage/effect does increase with quality but it also scales with your character's level. a level 31 character's uncommon lantern of revelation will do 451 damage while a level 60's will do 874.
upgrading artifacts also require reagents and have a % chance of success. for the example above, you would need one mark of potency, a mark of power and two lesser marks of power at rank 29. like the upgrading of enchantments, if you do not use a ward, you run the risk of losing your reagents if the upgrade fails. if the upgrade is successful, your reagents will be consumed in the process.
who is mark and why do i need him?
marks are the reagents required to upgrade all items using the new refinement system. in each of their tooltips, it shows where they can be acquired. the mark of potency can be purchased from the wondrous bazaar for astral diamonds. some can be acquired in daily quests from sergeant knox in the dread ring at level 60. some will drop from skill nodes (arcana, thievery, dungeoneering, nature and religious) and some will also drop from epic dungeon skill nodes as well as from epic dungeon bosses. they can also drop from the artifact provisions pack that drops from the rusted iron lockboxes.
you can also get more information about artifacts from the this official dev blog article, written by lead systems designer, chris matz.
the neverwinter wiki article on artifacts
this guide is a work in progress. thanks for checking it out and i hope it clears up some of the confusion. feel free to ask your questions in the thread.
and a massive amount of inventory space that a new player Will Not Have.
I considered bailing when I first got here because of all the Enchantments taking up
all my space, but I tried to hold onto them because I figured they must be important!
Please, seriously, have a focus group of new users play til level 30 and then ask
them to explain how the Enchant system works. (No giving them free Bank/Bag slots)
Btw, very few players ever see the boards, so you can't rely on this guide saving them.
I've played AD&D since 1st ed., all the computer games (including the AOL Neverwinter)
and read over 100 of the books... If this stuff confuses and annoys me, what do you
think a complete newb will think of the game now?
We need to keep growing the user base, or the game dies. It always works that way.
the system is designed for you to upgrade enchantments you have slotted. you may also upgrade individual items in your inventory. just like every so often, you have to go to a vendor to sell unwanted items to free up inventory space, you will utilize the same concept by feeding acquired enchants and runestones into slotted items or inventory items. if you're trying to level up many of the same item in your inventory, then this could be problematic with the current inability to stack items that have been fed refinement points.
you have the option to separate stacks if you want to prevent the auto-fill of filling all five refinement slots by pressing shift+clicking and dragging the stack to an open inventory slot. however, any refinement points that goes over the required upgrade amount is carried over into the upgraded item. the only way you lose these refinement points is if you use an item with added refinement points in a refinement slot or as a reagent. and the refinement system will give you a pop-up warning to let you know you're about to lose refinement points.
The old system was designed such that you were able to level enchantments in steps. Rank 1 enchantments would all stack, and when they were combined and leveled to rank 2, those enchantments stacked. The process that has been created now has intermediate 'levels' that do not stack. These refined enchantments require reagents to actually get to a point where they stack again. There are also many types of reagents. For you to say "trying to level up many...could be problematic" is a bit naive. Why would I not be trying to level all of the enchantments to share with my other characters? If I have a TR, am I just supposed to be leveling dark enchantments? What if I don't have the reagents to level the enchantment? Then it would seem that I would have to start stacking runes in my inventory while I tried to acquire the various reagents that I need. Before I could stack all of the different enchantments at their various ranks. Now I have intermediate ranks that do not stack. This is not a useful change.
I am not sure I understand this statement. There should not be a way to lose refinement points. There should not be a need for a warning. Why is there a way to lose the points?
The crux of what I am saying is that the new process is aggravating. I hadn't even read obsiddia's post until now. I agree that I think new players will find the process and the need to find these reagents confusing and annoying. It is just another mechanic that will delay them getting a full set of runes into their gear. Give us back the old system and leave the ability to remove runes with gold OR get rid of the reagents and (perhaps) lose a rank X's refinement worth when an upgrade chance fails [but this still leaves the stacking issue]. The old system worked well enough minus the AD to remove runes. I imagine that you all were attempting to create AD sinks with that and with things like the 300k AD to upgrade companions. There has to be a more intelligent way of creating AD sinks for old players while not putting the weight on new players as well. Perhaps you can refine epic armor to give a 5-10% stat boost for a few days for AD.
upgrading a rank 7 dark requires one greater mark of potency and one rank 7 dark. the mark of potency and the rank 7 dark are the reagents. if the rank 7 dark that you're using as the reagent has refinement points on it--meaning in the process of getting your reagent enchantment to rank 7, it has extra refining points on it--those refining points will be lost. this is because any enchantment/runestone that has accumulated RP on it and is consumed in the refinement process, those RP points are lost. the warning is there to prevent you from accidentally using an enchantment/runestone that you are upgrading from being destroyed.
also, this guide wasn't created to refute arguments as to why you don't like the new refinement system. it has been implemented and as of the time of this post, it's been active for about 36 hours now. as the old fusion system was changed based on internal data, the new refinement system is also subject to change.
So what I said in my original post was accurate.
The system defaults by placing as many refining points into the refine process as possible and those refine points above what is required are wasted.
Take these responses as community saying that the new process is too confusing. I know this guide was not created to refute reasons why the new system is poor. The fact that a guide had to be created is a reason the new system is poor. I do hope this new system changes; that is why I am speaking out. I, as part of the community, do not like these changes in the ways that I have explained. The process is more difficult and AD consuming to even level enchantments from rank 1 to 5. Please, as a community moderator, communicate our disdain for the new system that was pushed on us. I do not want there to be any post on the refining process that does not have multiple players sharing their dislike for the refining system. It needs to change.
It must have taken bunch of time, creating a guide on such "involving" system.
Without the blues the system is bottlenecked and everything else is backing up, filling my inventory. I could buy the potency ones from WB but marks of power are the ones I need and can't find. One of the main selling points of the new system (saving space) seems to be the opposite of the reality.
For Players:
Put the highest enchantment/rune you have into an important slot. Feed that
enchantment with gems you'd never want to use anyway. Once it's 'full', hope
that you find the right reagent to try to complete the upgrade. Or buy them
for Astral Diamonds. Pray it doesn't fail.
Don't pile enchants into each other in inventory. If you can't complete an
enchant there, don't start one. Not unless its to empty piles of wimpy ones.
Since removal only costs a gold or less, storing enchants in your companions and
gear you wear is fine. Jam more weak items into them. Upgrade when
it becomes possible. Don't accidentally sell old gear without removing enchants.
If you're just starting out, um... I think I'd just sell anything rune/enchant/reagent
related thing you find. You need the inventory space for real items.
For the programmers:
Fine. You won't go back, so... Add a TAB for all enchantments, runes, reagents
gems, pearls, etc. New players will quit if overwhelmed by these rules
and all their slots are filled with random gobbledygook. Set it off to the side where it's less
of a glaring mess. Then they'll have a chance to enjoy the game before they
see this new system.
If your plan was to sell bags, it'll only work for a month, and then you need new
players. That won't happen if the reagent system is the first thing they try. I was going
to leave based on the enchants/bag size when I got here, but my brother wanted to
play, so I bought bags. I'd have bailed immediately if the new system were up at the time.
Remember, without new blood, all games die.
You can remove individual refine items by right clicking on them. That can minimize the excess refine points.
Rp over the needed point go into next rank too. So you don't waste RP. Only you use a over-Rped one as reagent. The artifacts show this well. You gain more than one level if you put a high RP value into it at the beginning levels.
Shame on you. That's a false information from you. They gain a 8x bonus to her value as matching shard. Correct this please.
thank you for the correction.
Good point man. Most people, willing to spend money on game, prefer to obtain thing of value, like rare mounts, eye-candy armour, and perhaps bonuses that speed up things (exp, glory, craft etc), rather than simple basic stuff. In case of bags - purchasing them should contribute to more comfortable game play instead of being the only option for less annoying experience.
it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r8 to r9.
it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r9 to r10.
edit it
it should be 6 double check it
1 being refined
4 = to feed RP
1 = another 1 for reagent
i did edit it to clarify that it takes 5 of the same item to provide the required number of refine points for the upgrade not including reagents. the extra R7/R8/R9 (reagent) does not contribute to the refine points of the upgrade item.
thanks.
it does you should add the RP of extra enchant for reagent
you cant upgrade refined r9 without having another r9 of same enchant
to make another r9 you need to refine another gem or unless you will buy another r9 from AH
I am adding enchants trying to burn up all the small ones I have some with stacks over 99 so I need to clean up for space, but I have a very hard time getting it to end on an even Number to over creating a New Unique Item that will not stack not to mentions all the new Reagents that take up more space and needed all the different levels of each.
I understand the part about being able to upgrade slotted items, and using any kind to feed the type you want.
But it sucks to be so complex and need More new Reagents and the high failure rate costing 25K AD each for "Mark of Potency" I just blew over 100K Ad for nada........ not to mention hours <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with this "Improved" system
It is really hard to get a refined Enchantment that does not have the overage bar on it so it then will NOT stack with the Hundreds of others I have. This system is way worse as far as combining way to much work, and I have spent Way too much AD to buy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I don't want just to fail to Upgrade.
Frustrated in Fantasy land......
You don't need to make 1s into 2s into 3s into 4s anymore. In fact, you shouldn't if you can avoid it, because it's a waste of time and resources. Bang, no more stacks of anything in your inventory, partially refined or otherwise. You only need to simultaneously work on multiples in order to slot more of the same kind.
Not to say the reagent costs aren't difficult for newer or more casual players to swing, but using up all your lower level enchants should not be an issue unless you've misunderstood how to use the system to get rid of them.
Use preservation wards to prevent loss of Marks of Potency.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
you can right click on the individual refinement slots to remove RP items if it auto-fills all 5 slots. and you may still go over a few points, but depending on what enchant/runestone you're upgrading, it may not be a huge deal. if it is your "target" item (not your reagent item) then whatever extra points you add will carry over into your upgraded item. if it is your reagent item (specifically speaking of r7, r8, r9 upgrades where you need another r7, r8 and r9 as a one of the reagent items) and you go over in RP, you will lose those extra RP points because the item will be "consumed". since the smallest value on an enchant is 5 RP on a non-matching enchant/runestone then it is possible to hit the exact RP requirement.
i'm not sure why you're trying to refine so many items at once, but there is no advantage to upgrading low level items before feeding them into your target upgrades. as a matter of fact, each time you feed RP into your item, you have more chances at hitting "critical success" and thus bonus RP.
I socket enchantments in all equipment I'm using, and socket runestones in all companions I'm using. Those enchantments and runestones get refined and upgraded whenever I feel the need to empty out bag space, with non-matching runestones and enchantments being dumped into my artifact. The only time I have enchantments in my inventory that have excess RP in them is when I've upgraded a socketed equipment item with one without a socket, in which case the previously socketed enchantment sits in my inventory until I have another free socket in an equipment item I will use. I also park reagents and wards in the bank, as they can be used while in the bank without taking up space in my normal bags. I have only 2 enchantments at rank 5 now, still have quite a ways to go before my artifact is ready for first upgrade, and haven't started to put enchantments in companion gear yet, so even if I avoid buying any blue marks, I have plenty of room to use up enchantments before I run into a crunch.
At level 49, I have a lot more problem with equipment made through professions (that I'm holding onto in case a rare pops up) taking up inventory space than runestones and enchantments taking up space, and certainly much less of a problem than I had with prior characters. So for those arguing that this change is bad for new players... you really don't know what you're talking about.
It has only succeeding in annoying me and wasting a ton of my time trying to figure out how to use my saved horde of enchantments. Like many others I have been saving my enchants for the end game. I wanted a set of level 10 enchants for my character and have worked very hard at collecting the enchants. Now it seems the system has been turned upside down. Instead of collecting the enchants I need to take my collection and dump every enchant into other slotted enchants. Total reversal of strategy. I have great reluctance to destroy my preciously horded enchantments.
Maybe that is why this system leaves such bad taste in my mouth. Months of effort spent and sacrifice made in hording of enchants seem to be devalued. I would probably have been better off to have socketed those enchants months ago and been using them instead of having left my slots empty because I was busy hording them for a future with a bright shiny level 10 enchant (it was a valid strategy at the time). So someone who has spent months working hard collecting every precious rune and playing under a handicap (no slotted enchants) is getting punished for trying to maximize their future. It just does not seem like "fair play" to loyal players that were looking for long-term play. I do not see any sort of reward for these long-game players who chose this common strategy.
Who really cares though? Any why should they? I choose a strategy of play based on the game rules at the time. The game evolved and changed and I got shafted. Boo hooo for me. Had I chosen a different style to play then maybe I would be rolling in AD.