Man the sense of entitlement you guys display is astounding. You think because you beat your head against a wall for hours that you deserve loot? That you can keep the queue system hostage to your fail group until it gives you a wizard or a gwf or really, just any player with a clue who can carry you and your sorry team through to victory?
You are getting booted because you are the problem. You are the reason why the group is failing to beat a simple encounter.
I used to never understand why someone would just randomly join then start attempting to vote kick people but I understand it now completely. Whenever I end up in a random pug trying to help a friend and instead end up in groups like yours I used to always vote no to votekicking. I just got there, i have no idea whats what or why people are votekicking. But my character is strong enough to carry any dead weight through whatever random t2 so I don't mind, i always helped wee people like you get your dd chest. but from now on, yeah, auto Yes to vote kicking when it pops up. I'm just trying to get to my buddies instance and you and your fail group is impeding on that, so off you go.
Speaking of entitlement/arrogance...
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chaoscourtesanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Everything is kinda relative, when some 15 k gearscore hijacker join a 8300 dungeon to get a quick loot, he want his 15 k gearscore friends in rather than helping and those with lower gearscore arent good enough versus 15 k gs - but kicking those who fought their way through the dungeon. Thats not understandable, thats selfish and rude.
The 15 k should not be in a 8300 to start with - unless he is there to help. He should certainly not be there to leech on other people playing through the dungeon and then kicking them. There is no point in defending such sociopathic behaviour.
Actually those hijackers I talk about havent even fought with you, and got no clue if people are capable or not. They simply start to kick as they get in. To makes room for friends or whatever. So how anyone can fail to see that It's not only exploit, its ruining other peoples play and their chance of getting better gear.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
blondiritterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
I can understand both people's side here. First you got those who are fresh 60's trying to get gear. They may not be in a guild or have a group to play with or maybe their friends arent on during that exact DD moment. It is in their every right to want to gear up. The dungeon keeps failing, they keep kicking and now they wait on the queue. The other side is someone who is trying to get in an instance to help a friend or guildmates who lost a member either by kicking or someone just leaves. I've been on both sides and know how frustrating either can be. I have what I think is a possible solution:
When someone gets kicked for whatever reason then I suggest no change in the queue system so now someone may indeed pop in and save the day. I just did this the other night in SP with my GF as well.
But here is a thought on those who have a party member who leaves or got dc'ed for an extended amount of time. Enable the party to invite a friend in but have the entire party vote on it. Now I know some will take advantage of this but at least it may solve some of the problems with people hijacking other people's DD. And let me repeat myself, you can only invite when someone in a party leaves of their own free will and not when they are kicked.
I mentioned how my GF saved a group the other night, it wasn't intentional and it was frustrating but I was trying to get into a party with friends to help them finish and got placed in numerous instances and when most groups got a full party someone initiated a vote kick probably thinking I would help vote. I never voted to kick people and ended up getting kicked myself. After being kicked from the same instance numerous times I was getting "hate messages". Welcome to ignore, lol. So I never did help my friends because they gave up and instead helped the group whose instance I just entered. So I do think the current system has its plus side and negative side. I offer a solution and hope it can at least help some.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Absolutely. Selfish and arrogant to think you can hold a dungeon queue hostage, effecting the entire player base because you want to failboat around for 4 hours in ToS.
If you don't have the decency to close your group then why do you expect anyone else to have the decency to come in and carry your gimp character and hand you free loot. You're the same type of person who'd roll need on high price class loot too after contributing nothing and getting carried. With an attitude like yours you deserve to be kicked.
Man the sense of entitlement you guys display is astounding. You think because you beat your head against a wall for hours that you deserve loot? That you can keep the queue system hostage to your fail group until it gives you a wizard or a gwf or really, just any player with a clue who can carry you and your sorry team through to victory?
You are getting booted because you are the problem. You are the reason why the group is failing to beat a simple encounter.
I used to never understand why someone would just randomly join then start attempting to vote kick people but I understand it now completely. Whenever I end up in a random pug trying to help a friend and instead end up in groups like yours I used to always vote no to votekicking. I just got there, i have no idea whats what or why people are votekicking. But my character is strong enough to carry any dead weight through whatever random t2 so I don't mind, i always helped wee people like you get your dd chest. but from now on, yeah, auto Yes to vote kicking when it pops up. I'm just trying to get to my buddies instance and you and your fail group is impeding on that, so off you go.
Could that stick get any further up your ***?
Once again, can you beat spider in less than 15 minutes?
Not to mention you can "carry dead weight". Hmm, i wonder how a 16.5k GWF can do so much better than a 9k TR. Oh right, your gear is alot higher than theirs so it takes them longer. How else do you exspect people to get gear? Should it just fall off of a tree? Should then grind dread ring mobs till they have 1000 gold to buy one peice at a time, and then get thier gear 200 hours later?
Snobs like YOU are the real issue. People play this for fun. If it takes someone 5 hours to do a dungoen, all the power to them, it is none of your concern. You walk into their group while trying to find a friend? Walk right back out. Not only that, if the "****" group is failing for taking so long, why is your freinds needing "help" any more important than every other group? Did your friend not fail too if he now needs help? Why not just kick your friend instead, obviously he's so bad that he's just taking up que space, atleast with your logic.
Again, dont like the que system? Dont use it, make a premade, hope for no leavers, and just play the dam game.
Absolutely. Selfish and arrogant to think you can hold a dungeon queue hostage, effecting the entire player base because you want to failboat around for 4 hours in ToS.
If you don't have the decency to close your group then why do you expect anyone else to have the decency to come in and carry your gimp character and hand you free loot. You're the same type of person who'd roll need on high price class loot too after contributing nothing and getting carried. With an attitude like yours you deserve to be kicked.
How is playing the game selfish? How is trying your best ot beat a dungoen selfish? You wanting nobody but pros to play and use the que IS selfish. If everyone goes in with 0 issues then there's no need for reinforcements, then oh look, it becomes exactly like just making a premade. All fresh dungoens with no one ever needing help. Your logic is just isnane.
No where did he say he rolls need on that kind of loot or act like it at all. And with an attitude like yours, you really will get kicked from quiet a few groups if you ever pug. No one will put up with your HAMSTER.
You are getting booted because you are the problem. You are the reason why the group is failing to beat a simple encounter.
Well sometimes they also just kick people to takeover the instance deliberately. I've experienced that more and more lately. I like scavenging instances at last boss. My chars are as good as yours so I can myself carry dead weights too, and of course, sometimes, I do. I queue for ToS with my cleric (because gods know how much 95% of the clerics suck hard in this game), get a failed instance offer, and then, a random dps or tank joins the group, starts a dps vote to kick, one of his guild members join, and of course, the kickfest starts. Everyone is voted out until they could completely takeover the instance.
It has nothing to do with reaching other friends to help them, they just want free loot and they'll do it with as little respect as they can - because, you know, you don't kick a 15k+ cleric waiting before the spider queen's arena, unless you're a complete HAMSTER. All I can do is queueing repeatedly to waste their time, unfortunately, it's wasting mine too, and even if I hope they'll think that at some point it's not worth the hassle when the same guy has to be kicked 15 times, they always win. And I can't help/scavenge last boss in ToS anymore, because some guilds think it's cool to just ruin other people's attempts to use the system respectfully and for the very reason it's been designed.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Once again, can you beat spider in less than 15 minutes?
Yep easily 100% legit no exploits or shortcuts. Can do it in 20 minutes with an all 10k gs team too.
Not to mention you can "carry dead weight". Hmm, i wonder how a 16.5k GWF can do so much better than a 9k TR. Oh right, your gear is alot higher than theirs so it takes them longer. How else do you exspect people to get gear? Should it just fall off of a tree? Should then grind dread ring mobs till they have 1000 gold to buy one peice at a time, and then get thier gear 200 hours later?
you expect me to carry you through dungeons, thats how you expect they should get their gear. cus you obviously lack the skill to beat the dungeon yourself
Snobs like YOU are the real issue. People play this for fun. If it takes someone 5 hours to do a dungoen, all the power to them, it is none of your concern. You walk into their group while trying to find a friend? Walk right back out. Not only that, if the "****" group is failing for taking so long, why is your freinds needing "help" any more important than every other group? Did your friend not fail too if he now needs help? Why not just kick your friend instead, obviously he's so bad that he's just taking up que space, atleast with your logic.
people like you who have no clue on how the game works are the real issue. Taking 5 hours to do a dungeon is my concern if you don't have the common decency to close your group before you embark on your fail adventure and have taken hostage the entire queue system for that dungeon and every single player who wants to run it via the queue system.
To get to my friends group to help them I have to get a dozen friends all with access to any class and organize an instance filling session to fill all the terribad groups with whatever it is your group needs just so I can free the queue system up to allow me to join my friend. I normally go through that effort because i've got no problem with groups like yours just trying to get by. Until now and the arrogance displayed in this thread. Congrats, you've convinced me that you aren't worth helping and i'll be sure to vote kick and hijack your groups, just to close them, because that's easier than orchestrating the mass instance queue manipulation I was doing before so that I could get to my friends without interfering with your party.
Again, dont like the que system? Dont use it, make a premade, hope for no leavers, and just play the dam game.
Stop trying to act tough and insult people.
Is the queue system the worst implementation of a lfg tool ever conceived by man? Basically, yes. But it's the system we have. I have to use the queue system if I want to help my friends, you know, in case someone disconnects or whatever and they are a man short. I do that, all the time, because i'm a nice person and enjoy helping people.
People like you are the reason that people started hijacking groups to begin with, and at first I thought it was just people exploiting the system being greedy and stealing dungeons at last boss, but now i know why. And hopefully now you know why as well. because you and people like you are ungrateful arrogant pos.
How is playing the game selfish? How is trying your best ot beat a dungoen selfish?
If you don't have the decency to close your group then absolutely you are being selfish.
You expect every single player to just not do whatever dungeon it is you are doing until you are finished, and you expect us all to wait patiently for you to complete your 5 hour dungeon. That's what you are saying when you say its perfectly fine for you to take 5 hours to complete a dungeon, knowing that the queue system fills OLDEST dungeon FIRST.
except you don't. you expect the queue system to save you be giving you somebody like me, who can carry your group through and basically solo the boss while you stand on the sidelines failboating around so you can need on loot you didn't earn and save your DD chest too.
You're mad that the queue system occasionally gives you a, for lack of better term, "hijacker" someone who intentionally vote kicks people like you out to steal your instance and fill it with his friends so they can get loot.
You want everyone the queue system gives you to be the first type. a knight in shining armor to come save you and hand you loot, yet you want to pretend like it's your right to "earn" your gear. You get mad when the second type shows up and steals your chance to be carried. Nevermind that the only reason that type of player exists is because of players like you expecting the rest of the playerbase to wait on you to finish your instance so that we can play?
All I asked is if you know you're just going to fail for hours that you form up before hand and close your group before you queue. Then you can fail all you want to your hearts content. Go ahead and earn your gear. No wolves can steal your dd chest, but no knights can come save you either. You want to earn it, then earn it. Otherwise you need to accept the risk that not everyone will be as nice as me and let hold the queue system hostage while you wipe 100x.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well sometimes they also just kick people to takeover the instance deliberately.
Yes some people do this. I used to feel bad for the people it happens to. Seeing how the people it happens to expect to be handed everything, all take and no give, I don't any longer. People who steal these bosses are cleansing the queue system of all these hopeless 4 hour dungeon instances and killing the boss, closing the dungeons out and freeing up the system so that it can work as it was intended. So they are a necessary evil.
Absolutely. Selfish and arrogant to think you can hold a dungeon queue hostage, effecting the entire player base because you want to failboat around for 4 hours in ToS.
If you don't have the decency to close your group then why do you expect anyone else to have the decency to come in and carry your gimp character and hand you free loot. You're the same type of person who'd roll need on high price class loot too after contributing nothing and getting carried. With an attitude like yours you deserve to be kicked.
Selfish and arrogant to think that others have to play on your terms, or that you should have any right to dictate to them how they should play their instance that they started. They don't close their pug groups because pug groups aren't dependable, people leave and they might actually need some people to randomly join them later. Not to mention, at that level and fairly new to the game, they probably don't even realize that turning off the group if that was a realistic and viable option for them.
The best part is your failed attempt to further state your case, doing nothing but showing your true colors and how petty a person you really are.
I spend two - three DD runs a week running new players through dungeons to help them gear up. Most of them are new to the guild, some are just new people I've come across that came off as decent people. Generally, they just need a little direction, someone to teach them a thing or two to help them better themselves in game.
The only sense of entitlement here is on your end, not theirs. They started that run, you joined it randomly. They didn't beg you to join and carry them through. Your attitude is disgusting, and represents the absolute worst of player communities. Luckily, people like you seem to be few and far between, and there are enough of us around to (hopefully) continue to help boost the sense of community in this game.
Good day.
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hobokenboyBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited February 2014
And those that wanted a vote kick system thought it wouldn't be abused. Go figure. Think it's too late to try and get Cryptic to remove it?
Yes some people do this. I used to feel bad for the people it happens to. Seeing how the people it happens to expect to be handed everything, all take and no give, I don't any longer. People who steal these bosses are cleansing the queue system of all these hopeless 4 hour dungeon instances and killing the boss, closing the dungeons out and freeing up the system so that it can work as it was intended. So they are a necessary evil.
wow.......you call us entitled just because we know we may need help further down the road. by the way, your suggestion is faulty since closing the group is ultimately defeated when 1 person leaves. we are not a group of 5 friends and u can not expect that kind of dedication from a whole group when not even 3 are in the same guild.
and like a said before, this game is way too dependent on wizards being in the group. yes the other classes can help, but nothing makes the run as smooth as a single wizard or multiples of them. i don't even care about their gs being 9k or less as long as they can aoe well and i have seen quite a few wizards that didn't feel that helpful despite pming me their 13k+ vorpal wizard. most lose to my guild master, who is a hunter, anyways so i never notice their dps unless they somehow got 1st place.
also, not all of us r so good that we can just 4-man an entire dungeon (ironically we did that a bit for a few dungeons but i think we only beat 1-2 completely that way). normally, some people do lag behind in usefulness regardless of class and it causes many fails but not once have we ever kicked them or told them to leave as they deserve the right to keep trying for as long as they are motivated. sometimes it works and we do win, or they leave and we get a more efficient replacement and win on 1st try.
but the point i am trying to make is that some groups need practice and hijackers are denying that necessary practice to beat some bosses. it took me 3-5 tries to learn how to better tank hrimnir on my rouge, got kicked on last boss in spellplague since i was not used to all the frogs ambushing me from behind (and u can't see aoe circles clearly right near the boss' head), had to wait on my group to take care of the mobs better in mad dragon/spell since i had the boss mostly handled.
it's not entitlement to say we need a wizard. it's actually game design since nothing deals with mob spam better except maybe 3 rogues spamming an aoe stun and their immunities. i, for one, have never seen karrundax beaten without a wizard simply because all the ranged mobs just kill everyone one by one as soon as the 1st boss has 10% hp left. 2-3 wizards solved that completely as they are mostly dead which allows us to actually handle the boss and his remaining followers.
2nd boss in castle never is also one that practically demands a wizard. no healer is capable of healing off the damage from all those charging mobs, no tank was ever able to tank the extreme amounts of damage from mobs without my aoe stun (and that has a long cooldown and the tanks had godly gear), and the mobs don't even die quick.....our only answer is just perma-stun but nobody can do that. one of my guildies even asked for help or some advice from some community, but they just laughed at us for not being able to win as a 3-man or glitch it.
funny thing is that after reading that thread that was posted earlier, i might understand how some of you do it. 10x damage multiplier is just beyond ridiculous and there is no way u can fail with that. even a 5x damage multiplier would be enough to easily beat these boss fights that give most people difficulty.
Yes some people do this. I used to feel bad for the people it happens to. Seeing how the people it happens to expect to be handed everything, all take and no give, I don't any longer. People who steal these bosses are cleansing the queue system of all these hopeless 4 hour dungeon instances and killing the boss, closing the dungeons out and freeing up the system so that it can work as it was intended. So they are a necessary evil.
Fun fact, if you want us to hijack everyonebecause we all "suck" in your eyes, then i guess whenever your friends need help, they should all get kicked. They failed, they suck, they dont deserve to play. Cleanse the que by just kicking everyone, make rus pointless unless you've already beat them, or feel like sitting and watch some maxxed out character solo everything so he can pretend he's "good and useful".
You're 16.5k, why the **** are you still even on temple of the spider? Seriously go do HAMSTER that is intended for your GS or shut up complaining.
Your logic is pathetic and your attitude is why people quit most games.
now change the system
how about neverwinter do like this
if have 3 or 2 player in dungeons automatic disband that party from that dungeons kick them all out
make them start from beginner
at least that will improve team work and make player think twice before kicking another player.
i would like neverwinter system post name for who start voting for kick and reason to to appear in our screen.so we can know what reason they wan to kick.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I noticed a few people mentioning removing the kick system....DO NOT DO THIS! What will happen? Exactly what's happening 1/4 of the time in CTA's right now...the person that ended up leader just goes afk and hides in a corner, waits until you other 4 have finished the skirmish, magically springs back to life and loots the chest. They do this because they know they cannot be kicked. It's pitiful. It's disgusting. But that's what we have in this game for some reason.
I absolutely agree that something needs to be done to prevent all this abuse of the system, but removing the vote kick system completely will almost certainly be worse than what's going on now. I think a simple solution I've seen mentioned in previous threads will work quite well. Allow the group the prevent the dungeon queue from automatically filling players in when someone leaves the dungeon or gets vote kicked. Allow the leader to manually invite additional party members if they want to. This wont stop people from cycling through friends/guild members to get the chest at the end, but I'm sure that can be remedied also. Possibly with X amount of free keys per day to access the DD chest, and removing DD altogether. Or perhaps a daily quest that makes 2 end dungeon bosses per day to drop a key for the chest in that dungeon, this way you have to participate in the boss kill to open the chest, and eliminates cycling for free lewts.
Since it knows who queues together these rules would seem to remove the problem.
1) A queue group is who ever is grouped together prior to entering the queue.
2) A queue group gets one vote. First person in the group to vote is the vote. Other people receive the message: your queue group has already voted.
3) It takes a majority to vote kick.
If a 3 is queued with a 2 or a 4 with a 1 you get issues where neither side can kick a member of the other side, but other than that it works out. It just basically amounts to nobody can kick in that situation. In other situations you can both a) kick and b) have a majority not involving just a queue group.
There are scenarios where people could queue seperatly and end up together, but thats pretty hard to abuse.
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hobokenboyBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited February 2014
Look, people screamed and fussed for a long time about a vote kick option. Way back when this was -first- being discussed, I pointed out the inherent flaws and abuses possible by instituting a vote kick system. Wouldn't you know it, now those abuses and flaws are being exploited. Go figure. You lot DESERVE what's happening to you, and I'll give you no pity or sympathy. Put up with the Pandora's Box you've opened.
Now, if Cryptic had instead improved upon the ignore function to exclude people you've ignored from queuing with you(the one who ignored), then a vote kick would not have been necessary, would it? Perhaps harder to implement, true...but inherently less flawed and exploitable. Man up and endure what you have wrought.
I'm unhappy and I can't say why.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
As much fun as it might be to say "I told you so", hate to burst your bubble here, but you act as this is a wide spread issue with far reaching ramifications when really it's not. Short of a complete overhaul of the LFG and DD system there's no real reason to invest the time to bandaid an inherently flawed queue system, especially since the "abuses and exploits" only impact a very small minority of players who already have the tools to prevent it but refuse to use them.
This thread is basically the same as the "I die over and over again y u no res me??" thread in general. Someone dies over and over and over again so often that nobody bothers to res him, so suddenly it's an epidemic. Nobody cares about anyone, nobody is "team first" the entire playerbase are all a bunch of jerks. Nevermind that for 99.99% of the player base people refusing to res them is a non-issue. It's the same subset of players that are impacted by these alleged abuses. Is hijacking instances rampant? pfft, hardly. It happens over and over again to the same very tiny portion of the population who's instance is always the first one the queue tries to fill because they've been derping around for 4 hours. Again, for 99.99% of the playerbase it's a non-issue. They've never even heard of instance hijacking because it's never happened to them and never will.
We're not asking to get rid of the vote kick system, we're asking for a solution to it. Unless you've been kicked you really don't know how it feels to be kicked out once that boss loot drops and especially when it's a T2 gear.
Sad to say you only need 3 players to kick in a 5 party game because 3>1. Then it's 3>0. The person being kicked cannot vote and regardless the remaining one cannot do anything about it either other than wait for the vote prompt to disappear without voting and hope that there is a loot roll currently going on so that you can wait for the results before finally being kicked.
If it's a 4 party dungeon run then i wouldn't run it in the first place. You need all the help you can get in succeeding the run.
Which is worse? Grief Needing on an item in a greed run? Or kicking other players before they can roll and see the results of an item? While the first option is just a playstyle, i think the second option is more of an exploit in gaining items and should be dealt with immediately.
Seeing as how dedicated cryptic feels about this vote kick system, why don't i make a suggestion. Although unfortunately this doesn't really work in a party with 4 griefers, it's still a solution to in a party of 3 or less griefers:
Extend the godamn timer for the vote kick system. In a 5 party game, even if 3 players vote yes to kick, there's still one player you need to wait and regardless of their vote the kick will not process unless that player votes or until a certain amount of time has pass. All I'm suggesting is that the timer be extended.
Why it works? Let me address the times you want to kick. In all these situations, please keep in mind that it is a 3vs1 vote and the remaining player denies to vote(not talking about clicking no, i'm talking about just leaving the vote prompt up and NOT voting):
AFK or lazy player: If you can wait for an afk player for 10 mins or a player doesn't do anything in the party but steal items, what's the pain in waiting a few extra minutes while you just stand there? Usually this doesn't happen in dungeons but maybe in skirmishes or daily quest parties. And if it does happen in dungeons you darn well already have enough time to judge this for yourself so there's no excuse in not kicking before initiating the boss fight. From easiest to hardest dungeon, the average time is 15 minutes to 1 hour and a half. 15 minutes of being AFK is fine but 1 hour of being AFK is no excuse for not kicking.
Grief need in greed party: This sometimes happen and while it may look bad, at the very least that griefer worked for it and the way how the game works, it's fine and still better than outright kicking someone before the chance to loot.
Gaining Loot: The very prime and main reason why people kick. Just to gain loot and usually when it's T2 loot. This may also happen during a boss fight and in that case the remaining victim (yes just one victim as again, it's 3vs1) will have to judge for themselves whether to either die and hope for a fail boss fight or kill the boss quickly and enable loot rolling. As for failing the boss fight, if the remaining 3 players can't kill it with 3 players then no one gets the loot and no one wins. It's still better than being kicked and denying you of loot. Would you rather give all the glory to your kickers?
So you worked hard to kill the boss and your reward was a kick. Didn't even have time to loot the DD chest either. Welcome to the F***ed up world of Neverwinter.
All these other suggestions such as locking out the vote kick during or end of whatever situations are all fine but seems to be too much work on cryptic. So i want to make it very simple for them and that is to just extend the godamn timer. All they have to do is change the whatever timer it is (1 minute? to.. I dont know... 4 or 5 minutes). This gives enough time to see the results of items that have been rolled.
Also, DON'T prevent the player from doing other actions when you have to vote to kick. At least give the player(s) the time to message victim telling them that they will be kicked and they will not vote until the item has been rolled.
I don't see a problem in waiting as much as 5 minutes to be kicked in any of the 3 situations above. I hope some of you agree to this new suggestion that no one suggested before. If you have another situation to have to kick please include it and i will try to argue with in favor of extending the timer.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
You believe that grief needing is a lesser evil than votekicking, your premise is flawed.
The LFG channel is a cesspit, avoid using it whenever possible. It's loaded with exploiters and HAMSTER who pull this kind of HAMSTER. Also, 2 votes to kick someone is absurd. It should at least be a majority vote to kick someone.
The LFG channel is a cesspit, avoid using it whenever possible. It's loaded with exploiters and HAMSTER who pull this kind of HAMSTER. Also, 2 votes to kick someone is absurd. It should at least be a majority vote to kick someone.
This - at least make it 3 votes so a majority is required to kick someone.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
3 Votes would be nice. No initiating a vote kick after the boss fight has begun, as well as no one entering the instance once a boss fight has begun. If you enter an instance where the group has already killed the first miniboss, you can not initiate a vote. Period. If your DD chest is available to open, you can not be kicked.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
If your DD chest is available to open, you can not be kicked.
then no one can kick anyone if they enter together during DD.
ninja loot paradise. and if people quit because you ninja loot, then the people that replace can't even initiate a kick on you when you ninja loot the next boss.
simply changing it from 2 to 3 votes to kick in a 5 man party is enough. that's 3 to 1 with the kickee not being able to vote
2 in a 4 man party 2 to 1 with kickee not being able to vote
2 in a 3 man party as well, instead of the current 1. Though in all honesty a group down to 3 members should have a time limit before the instance closes, would alleviate a lot of the issues with failed instances clogging up the system preventing people from using the system as intended.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2014
I assume that post means the chest is actually eligible to open because you fulfilled the dungeon quest objectives, not just that you happened to enter during DD. Means no kicking after the final boss is down, which seems to me to be primarily done to deny people any opportunity to roll on boss loot, but also deprives them of their chest.
Comments
Speaking of entitlement/arrogance...
Seriously. LOL :cool:
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
The 15 k should not be in a 8300 to start with - unless he is there to help. He should certainly not be there to leech on other people playing through the dungeon and then kicking them. There is no point in defending such sociopathic behaviour.
Actually those hijackers I talk about havent even fought with you, and got no clue if people are capable or not. They simply start to kick as they get in. To makes room for friends or whatever. So how anyone can fail to see that It's not only exploit, its ruining other peoples play and their chance of getting better gear.
My GF isn't valuable to the people I normally run with, but to low geared 9-10k pugs, she's a godsend.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
When someone gets kicked for whatever reason then I suggest no change in the queue system so now someone may indeed pop in and save the day. I just did this the other night in SP with my GF as well.
But here is a thought on those who have a party member who leaves or got dc'ed for an extended amount of time. Enable the party to invite a friend in but have the entire party vote on it. Now I know some will take advantage of this but at least it may solve some of the problems with people hijacking other people's DD. And let me repeat myself, you can only invite when someone in a party leaves of their own free will and not when they are kicked.
I mentioned how my GF saved a group the other night, it wasn't intentional and it was frustrating but I was trying to get into a party with friends to help them finish and got placed in numerous instances and when most groups got a full party someone initiated a vote kick probably thinking I would help vote. I never voted to kick people and ended up getting kicked myself. After being kicked from the same instance numerous times I was getting "hate messages". Welcome to ignore, lol. So I never did help my friends because they gave up and instead helped the group whose instance I just entered. So I do think the current system has its plus side and negative side. I offer a solution and hope it can at least help some.
If you don't have the decency to close your group then why do you expect anyone else to have the decency to come in and carry your gimp character and hand you free loot. You're the same type of person who'd roll need on high price class loot too after contributing nothing and getting carried. With an attitude like yours you deserve to be kicked.
Could that stick get any further up your ***?
Once again, can you beat spider in less than 15 minutes?
Not to mention you can "carry dead weight". Hmm, i wonder how a 16.5k GWF can do so much better than a 9k TR. Oh right, your gear is alot higher than theirs so it takes them longer. How else do you exspect people to get gear? Should it just fall off of a tree? Should then grind dread ring mobs till they have 1000 gold to buy one peice at a time, and then get thier gear 200 hours later?
Snobs like YOU are the real issue. People play this for fun. If it takes someone 5 hours to do a dungoen, all the power to them, it is none of your concern. You walk into their group while trying to find a friend? Walk right back out. Not only that, if the "****" group is failing for taking so long, why is your freinds needing "help" any more important than every other group? Did your friend not fail too if he now needs help? Why not just kick your friend instead, obviously he's so bad that he's just taking up que space, atleast with your logic.
Again, dont like the que system? Dont use it, make a premade, hope for no leavers, and just play the dam game.
Stop trying to act tough and insult people.
How is playing the game selfish? How is trying your best ot beat a dungoen selfish? You wanting nobody but pros to play and use the que IS selfish. If everyone goes in with 0 issues then there's no need for reinforcements, then oh look, it becomes exactly like just making a premade. All fresh dungoens with no one ever needing help. Your logic is just isnane.
No where did he say he rolls need on that kind of loot or act like it at all. And with an attitude like yours, you really will get kicked from quiet a few groups if you ever pug. No one will put up with your HAMSTER.
Well sometimes they also just kick people to takeover the instance deliberately. I've experienced that more and more lately. I like scavenging instances at last boss. My chars are as good as yours so I can myself carry dead weights too, and of course, sometimes, I do. I queue for ToS with my cleric (because gods know how much 95% of the clerics suck hard in this game), get a failed instance offer, and then, a random dps or tank joins the group, starts a dps vote to kick, one of his guild members join, and of course, the kickfest starts. Everyone is voted out until they could completely takeover the instance.
It has nothing to do with reaching other friends to help them, they just want free loot and they'll do it with as little respect as they can - because, you know, you don't kick a 15k+ cleric waiting before the spider queen's arena, unless you're a complete HAMSTER. All I can do is queueing repeatedly to waste their time, unfortunately, it's wasting mine too, and even if I hope they'll think that at some point it's not worth the hassle when the same guy has to be kicked 15 times, they always win. And I can't help/scavenge last boss in ToS anymore, because some guilds think it's cool to just ruin other people's attempts to use the system respectfully and for the very reason it's been designed.
people like you who have no clue on how the game works are the real issue. Taking 5 hours to do a dungeon is my concern if you don't have the common decency to close your group before you embark on your fail adventure and have taken hostage the entire queue system for that dungeon and every single player who wants to run it via the queue system.
To get to my friends group to help them I have to get a dozen friends all with access to any class and organize an instance filling session to fill all the terribad groups with whatever it is your group needs just so I can free the queue system up to allow me to join my friend. I normally go through that effort because i've got no problem with groups like yours just trying to get by. Until now and the arrogance displayed in this thread. Congrats, you've convinced me that you aren't worth helping and i'll be sure to vote kick and hijack your groups, just to close them, because that's easier than orchestrating the mass instance queue manipulation I was doing before so that I could get to my friends without interfering with your party. Is the queue system the worst implementation of a lfg tool ever conceived by man? Basically, yes. But it's the system we have. I have to use the queue system if I want to help my friends, you know, in case someone disconnects or whatever and they are a man short. I do that, all the time, because i'm a nice person and enjoy helping people.
People like you are the reason that people started hijacking groups to begin with, and at first I thought it was just people exploiting the system being greedy and stealing dungeons at last boss, but now i know why. And hopefully now you know why as well. because you and people like you are ungrateful arrogant pos.
If you don't have the decency to close your group then absolutely you are being selfish.
You expect every single player to just not do whatever dungeon it is you are doing until you are finished, and you expect us all to wait patiently for you to complete your 5 hour dungeon. That's what you are saying when you say its perfectly fine for you to take 5 hours to complete a dungeon, knowing that the queue system fills OLDEST dungeon FIRST.
except you don't. you expect the queue system to save you be giving you somebody like me, who can carry your group through and basically solo the boss while you stand on the sidelines failboating around so you can need on loot you didn't earn and save your DD chest too.
You're mad that the queue system occasionally gives you a, for lack of better term, "hijacker" someone who intentionally vote kicks people like you out to steal your instance and fill it with his friends so they can get loot.
You want everyone the queue system gives you to be the first type. a knight in shining armor to come save you and hand you loot, yet you want to pretend like it's your right to "earn" your gear. You get mad when the second type shows up and steals your chance to be carried. Nevermind that the only reason that type of player exists is because of players like you expecting the rest of the playerbase to wait on you to finish your instance so that we can play?
All I asked is if you know you're just going to fail for hours that you form up before hand and close your group before you queue. Then you can fail all you want to your hearts content. Go ahead and earn your gear. No wolves can steal your dd chest, but no knights can come save you either. You want to earn it, then earn it. Otherwise you need to accept the risk that not everyone will be as nice as me and let hold the queue system hostage while you wipe 100x.
Selfish and arrogant to think that others have to play on your terms, or that you should have any right to dictate to them how they should play their instance that they started. They don't close their pug groups because pug groups aren't dependable, people leave and they might actually need some people to randomly join them later. Not to mention, at that level and fairly new to the game, they probably don't even realize that turning off the group if that was a realistic and viable option for them.
The best part is your failed attempt to further state your case, doing nothing but showing your true colors and how petty a person you really are.
I spend two - three DD runs a week running new players through dungeons to help them gear up. Most of them are new to the guild, some are just new people I've come across that came off as decent people. Generally, they just need a little direction, someone to teach them a thing or two to help them better themselves in game.
The only sense of entitlement here is on your end, not theirs. They started that run, you joined it randomly. They didn't beg you to join and carry them through. Your attitude is disgusting, and represents the absolute worst of player communities. Luckily, people like you seem to be few and far between, and there are enough of us around to (hopefully) continue to help boost the sense of community in this game.
Good day.
wow.......you call us entitled just because we know we may need help further down the road. by the way, your suggestion is faulty since closing the group is ultimately defeated when 1 person leaves. we are not a group of 5 friends and u can not expect that kind of dedication from a whole group when not even 3 are in the same guild.
and like a said before, this game is way too dependent on wizards being in the group. yes the other classes can help, but nothing makes the run as smooth as a single wizard or multiples of them. i don't even care about their gs being 9k or less as long as they can aoe well and i have seen quite a few wizards that didn't feel that helpful despite pming me their 13k+ vorpal wizard. most lose to my guild master, who is a hunter, anyways so i never notice their dps unless they somehow got 1st place.
also, not all of us r so good that we can just 4-man an entire dungeon (ironically we did that a bit for a few dungeons but i think we only beat 1-2 completely that way). normally, some people do lag behind in usefulness regardless of class and it causes many fails but not once have we ever kicked them or told them to leave as they deserve the right to keep trying for as long as they are motivated. sometimes it works and we do win, or they leave and we get a more efficient replacement and win on 1st try.
but the point i am trying to make is that some groups need practice and hijackers are denying that necessary practice to beat some bosses. it took me 3-5 tries to learn how to better tank hrimnir on my rouge, got kicked on last boss in spellplague since i was not used to all the frogs ambushing me from behind (and u can't see aoe circles clearly right near the boss' head), had to wait on my group to take care of the mobs better in mad dragon/spell since i had the boss mostly handled.
it's not entitlement to say we need a wizard. it's actually game design since nothing deals with mob spam better except maybe 3 rogues spamming an aoe stun and their immunities. i, for one, have never seen karrundax beaten without a wizard simply because all the ranged mobs just kill everyone one by one as soon as the 1st boss has 10% hp left. 2-3 wizards solved that completely as they are mostly dead which allows us to actually handle the boss and his remaining followers.
2nd boss in castle never is also one that practically demands a wizard. no healer is capable of healing off the damage from all those charging mobs, no tank was ever able to tank the extreme amounts of damage from mobs without my aoe stun (and that has a long cooldown and the tanks had godly gear), and the mobs don't even die quick.....our only answer is just perma-stun but nobody can do that. one of my guildies even asked for help or some advice from some community, but they just laughed at us for not being able to win as a 3-man or glitch it.
funny thing is that after reading that thread that was posted earlier, i might understand how some of you do it. 10x damage multiplier is just beyond ridiculous and there is no way u can fail with that. even a 5x damage multiplier would be enough to easily beat these boss fights that give most people difficulty.
Fun fact, if you want us to hijack everyonebecause we all "suck" in your eyes, then i guess whenever your friends need help, they should all get kicked. They failed, they suck, they dont deserve to play. Cleanse the que by just kicking everyone, make rus pointless unless you've already beat them, or feel like sitting and watch some maxxed out character solo everything so he can pretend he's "good and useful".
You're 16.5k, why the **** are you still even on temple of the spider? Seriously go do HAMSTER that is intended for your GS or shut up complaining.
Your logic is pathetic and your attitude is why people quit most games.
how about neverwinter do like this
if have 3 or 2 player in dungeons automatic disband that party from that dungeons kick them all out
make them start from beginner
at least that will improve team work and make player think twice before kicking another player.
i would like neverwinter system post name for who start voting for kick and reason to to appear in our screen.so we can know what reason they wan to kick.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?614521-Feedback-Suggestion-Vote-Kick-System
I absolutely agree that something needs to be done to prevent all this abuse of the system, but removing the vote kick system completely will almost certainly be worse than what's going on now. I think a simple solution I've seen mentioned in previous threads will work quite well. Allow the group the prevent the dungeon queue from automatically filling players in when someone leaves the dungeon or gets vote kicked. Allow the leader to manually invite additional party members if they want to. This wont stop people from cycling through friends/guild members to get the chest at the end, but I'm sure that can be remedied also. Possibly with X amount of free keys per day to access the DD chest, and removing DD altogether. Or perhaps a daily quest that makes 2 end dungeon bosses per day to drop a key for the chest in that dungeon, this way you have to participate in the boss kill to open the chest, and eliminates cycling for free lewts.
1) A queue group is who ever is grouped together prior to entering the queue.
2) A queue group gets one vote. First person in the group to vote is the vote. Other people receive the message: your queue group has already voted.
3) It takes a majority to vote kick.
If a 3 is queued with a 2 or a 4 with a 1 you get issues where neither side can kick a member of the other side, but other than that it works out. It just basically amounts to nobody can kick in that situation. In other situations you can both a) kick and b) have a majority not involving just a queue group.
There are scenarios where people could queue seperatly and end up together, but thats pretty hard to abuse.
Now, if Cryptic had instead improved upon the ignore function to exclude people you've ignored from queuing with you(the one who ignored), then a vote kick would not have been necessary, would it? Perhaps harder to implement, true...but inherently less flawed and exploitable. Man up and endure what you have wrought.
This thread is basically the same as the "I die over and over again y u no res me??" thread in general. Someone dies over and over and over again so often that nobody bothers to res him, so suddenly it's an epidemic. Nobody cares about anyone, nobody is "team first" the entire playerbase are all a bunch of jerks. Nevermind that for 99.99% of the player base people refusing to res them is a non-issue. It's the same subset of players that are impacted by these alleged abuses. Is hijacking instances rampant? pfft, hardly. It happens over and over again to the same very tiny portion of the population who's instance is always the first one the queue tries to fill because they've been derping around for 4 hours. Again, for 99.99% of the playerbase it's a non-issue. They've never even heard of instance hijacking because it's never happened to them and never will.
Sad to say you only need 3 players to kick in a 5 party game because 3>1. Then it's 3>0. The person being kicked cannot vote and regardless the remaining one cannot do anything about it either other than wait for the vote prompt to disappear without voting and hope that there is a loot roll currently going on so that you can wait for the results before finally being kicked.
If it's a 4 party dungeon run then i wouldn't run it in the first place. You need all the help you can get in succeeding the run.
Which is worse? Grief Needing on an item in a greed run? Or kicking other players before they can roll and see the results of an item? While the first option is just a playstyle, i think the second option is more of an exploit in gaining items and should be dealt with immediately.
Seeing as how dedicated cryptic feels about this vote kick system, why don't i make a suggestion. Although unfortunately this doesn't really work in a party with 4 griefers, it's still a solution to in a party of 3 or less griefers:
Extend the godamn timer for the vote kick system. In a 5 party game, even if 3 players vote yes to kick, there's still one player you need to wait and regardless of their vote the kick will not process unless that player votes or until a certain amount of time has pass. All I'm suggesting is that the timer be extended.
Why it works? Let me address the times you want to kick. In all these situations, please keep in mind that it is a 3vs1 vote and the remaining player denies to vote(not talking about clicking no, i'm talking about just leaving the vote prompt up and NOT voting):
AFK or lazy player: If you can wait for an afk player for 10 mins or a player doesn't do anything in the party but steal items, what's the pain in waiting a few extra minutes while you just stand there? Usually this doesn't happen in dungeons but maybe in skirmishes or daily quest parties. And if it does happen in dungeons you darn well already have enough time to judge this for yourself so there's no excuse in not kicking before initiating the boss fight. From easiest to hardest dungeon, the average time is 15 minutes to 1 hour and a half. 15 minutes of being AFK is fine but 1 hour of being AFK is no excuse for not kicking.
Grief need in greed party: This sometimes happen and while it may look bad, at the very least that griefer worked for it and the way how the game works, it's fine and still better than outright kicking someone before the chance to loot.
Gaining Loot: The very prime and main reason why people kick. Just to gain loot and usually when it's T2 loot. This may also happen during a boss fight and in that case the remaining victim (yes just one victim as again, it's 3vs1) will have to judge for themselves whether to either die and hope for a fail boss fight or kill the boss quickly and enable loot rolling. As for failing the boss fight, if the remaining 3 players can't kill it with 3 players then no one gets the loot and no one wins. It's still better than being kicked and denying you of loot. Would you rather give all the glory to your kickers?
So you worked hard to kill the boss and your reward was a kick. Didn't even have time to loot the DD chest either. Welcome to the F***ed up world of Neverwinter.
All these other suggestions such as locking out the vote kick during or end of whatever situations are all fine but seems to be too much work on cryptic. So i want to make it very simple for them and that is to just extend the godamn timer. All they have to do is change the whatever timer it is (1 minute? to.. I dont know... 4 or 5 minutes). This gives enough time to see the results of items that have been rolled.
Also, DON'T prevent the player from doing other actions when you have to vote to kick. At least give the player(s) the time to message victim telling them that they will be kicked and they will not vote until the item has been rolled.
I don't see a problem in waiting as much as 5 minutes to be kicked in any of the 3 situations above. I hope some of you agree to this new suggestion that no one suggested before. If you have another situation to have to kick please include it and i will try to argue with in favor of extending the timer.
This - at least make it 3 votes so a majority is required to kick someone.
ninja loot paradise. and if people quit because you ninja loot, then the people that replace can't even initiate a kick on you when you ninja loot the next boss.
simply changing it from 2 to 3 votes to kick in a 5 man party is enough. that's 3 to 1 with the kickee not being able to vote
2 in a 4 man party 2 to 1 with kickee not being able to vote
2 in a 3 man party as well, instead of the current 1. Though in all honesty a group down to 3 members should have a time limit before the instance closes, would alleviate a lot of the issues with failed instances clogging up the system preventing people from using the system as intended.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia