The devs have shown that they are clueless they probably didn't even have proper defenses.
That is quite a cheap shot at the Dev's that is not needed in this forum. However, after playing with the Dev's for close to 8 hours I can assure you that they do know what they are doing. Not only did they play well enough, but they took the time to answer our questions all day long and replied with honesty and good information. I would suggest trying the PTR more with the current build and make an informed decision based over many days of trial and error. A lot of builds simply will not be as effective in the next build, and I am fine with that, but I would suggest play-testing more setups to find one that works for you.
Impact Shot needed a nerf in it's current form, but I believe that more charges should be added with diminishing returns on each volley. If they bumped it up to 4 shots with a 25% reduction per shot, you would end up with 100% damage at full,75% at 3, 50% at 2, and 25% at 1. TR's do need a little love after all the nerfs they have endured.
NOPE! DPS GF's are still a joke overall, even on preview. This is a thread about TR's though, so I suggest you make a new thread on the subject if need be.
Idk. They new mark they get goes through TR stealth, so they can counter stealth based TRs much much easier. This mark also doesn't get removed being hit. So they gain damage from the mark, the ablility to counter rogues, and more range/slightly more damage on skills. Seems like they still have potential to me. Not to mention against rogues/cw/dc, they get the advantage of having a stat which can increase arm pen against all the damage mitigation they plan to add.
This is PvP context though. Seeing as the thread is about a PvP TR move, I assume that is the intention behind asking about GF.
Either way I don't mind impact shot nerf. I often use PoTB anyway. It will work just fine.
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willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited January 2014
They should not nerf impact shot. It hits weak now. Are they trying to force all TRs to be permastealth?
No they're just trying to get people to stop playing TRs entirely. Constant nerfs since the beginning of the game, damaging the class in not only PVP, but even worse in PVE. Then you look at a weak PVE class that gets an insanely huge buff, and now it's crazy unbalanced in PVP (with a daily level power on tab...), but they go after impact shot? Too funny.
We should all just play GWFs for PVP and CWs for PVE and get it over with already.
Impact shot, against under geared players will seem OP, against Geared players its ok.
Against people that stand still and take all 4 hits its OP, against people that play AND move AND dodge will make some attacks miss.(GWF No dodge, but it just doesn't hurt unless your squish,GF Block it)
I don't like to use Impact, but the unreliability of Lashing with potential lag/ping and against decent players a lashing isn't going to one shot people , maybe if debuffed and/or prone. 20k lashing? you will kill newbs, but even CW have 25k or more if they are reasonably geared for PvP.
then if you finish someone off, pop soulforge, you have nothing, impact gives me a chance to re-finish off those people.
with new pvp stats incoming, its going to become more laughable when youhit a 28k hp CW for 12k Lashing with P.VORP or 4 consecutive impacts for 4 crits , 5k, 4k , 3k ,2k - 14k total if they don't dodge one or shield absorb
(I made up numbers like everyone else!)
So, what to use for damage? D.Flurry? its real easy to land on people that stand still!
(ps. WTB soulforge that when it procs and you rez from being prone, you don't stay prone and just insta-eat-it)
That is quite a cheap shot at the Dev's that is not needed in this forum. However, after playing with the Dev's for close to 8 hours I can assure you that they do know what they are doing. Not only did they play well enough, but they took the time to answer our questions all day long and replied with honesty and good information. I would suggest trying the PTR more with the current build and make an informed decision based over many days of trial and error. A lot of builds simply will not be as effective in the next build, and I am fine with that, but I would suggest play-testing more setups to find one that works for you.
Impact Shot needed a nerf in it's current form, but I believe that more charges should be added with diminishing returns on each volley. If they bumped it up to 4 shots with a 25% reduction per shot, you would end up with 100% damage at full,75% at 3, 50% at 2, and 25% at 1. TR's do need a little love after all the nerfs they have endured.
Good suggestions! I personally would not mind if IS stays as it is right now, since I use IS in Live too. People are complaining about Impact Shot mainly because it is a hard-hitting skill that can be activated instantaneously from range, and it can be hard to dodge. It also has a slight root effect which stops players on their tracks, and most of the players who are on the receiving end of IS dislike this. It almost always ensures that the 2nd and 3rd volley of IS will hit them.
Given that the nerf for IS is a little too severe by everyone's experience, we may still be able to suggest making the nerf lighter. People dislike the roots, TR's want the DPS. How about this?
I suggest that we just get rid of the Root mechanic and reduce Impact Shot's base damage by 15% without any diminishing returns for each shot remaining. Players on the receiving end will be able to rest assured that they can keep running away while we chuck IS on them. Or we can also opt to go for a more utility-based IS. Give it +10' range per added rank in addition to the +10% damage per rank, and retain the current mechanics. In addition, IS will deal an extra 20% more damage if the player is within 10' of the target. So it will hit harder when in point blank range.
We are supposed to be the highest single target dps class.....
With the massive nerf to burst damage already coming, this was unnecessary and over the top.
So now lashing blade is pointless and impact is no longer worth slotting. How are TRs supposed to do damage now??? At-wills non stop???
This is ridiculous
On the preview I had to slot DF for the first time because I couldn't kill anything without it. Problem is, this made me extremely weak against CWs because I was lacking Sly Flourish and DF has a long wind up. Now they make impact a lot weaker and buff defense significantly...making burst moves kinda pointless since the "burst" hardly does any damage and have too many drawbacks.
LB cooldown is too long after the new changes. Hoping it crits and does 6k damage (less than half of that for non crit) is a joke and not worth slotting
Do I slot all utility moves?
Do I have to play as a perma now because the other builds don't make sense?
im a 16.5k (in pvp gear) TR with a perfect vorpal and ~25% ArP. 26/31 feats are executioner so max damage spec with formorian weapons. Ive also been using the crit elixir and squash soup for an extra 15% crit severity and still found that the damage I did was laughable
If I cant make burst damage work, nobody can. Burst is dead
Maybe it never crossed the minds of the devs that I don't want to play as a tank. I like killing stuff....
So basically roll a CW, GWF or a token Cleric, because everyone else has either been left behind (GF), has been made redundant (TR) or is trying to cramp in on someone else's turf (TR). GG.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
On the preview I had to slot DF for the first time because I couldn't kill anything without it. Problem is, this made me extremely weak against CWs because I was lacking Sly Flourish and DF has a long wind up. Now they make impact a lot weaker and buff defense significantly...making burst moves kinda pointless since the "burst" hardly does any damage and have too many drawbacks.
LB cooldown is too long after the new changes. Hoping it crits and does 6k damage (less than half of that for non crit) is a joke and not worth slotting
Do I slot all utility moves?
Do I have to play as a perma now because the other builds don't make sense?
im a 16.5k (in pvp gear) TR with a perfect vorpal and ~25% ArP. 26/31 feats are executioner so max damage spec with formorian weapons. Ive also been using the crit elixir and squash soup for an extra 15% crit severity and still found that the damage I did was laughable
If I cant make burst damage work, nobody can. Burst is dead
Maybe it never crossed the minds of the devs that I don't want to play as a tank. I like killing stuff....
burst build has been bad for quite some time now. shame that you have not notice.
Nerf the GWF's not the rogues gg this company is as clueless as they get.
GWF was one of the weakest classes at release, but Cryptic has buffed them to one of the strongest classes without doubt after release. I agree that GWF could use a nerf. It has gone so far that when my characters that usually are leaders(2 are high gs Clerics) recruit I rather take a GWF as "tank" instead of GF. In pure defenses I am not saying GF is worse, but difference is that GWF can give a lot of damage also in PvE at the same time they tank a boss.
They should not nerf impact shot. It hits weak now. Are they trying to force all TRs to be permastealth?
I am not permastealth and my stealth is usually enough to get first strike in, but thats it. I never use Impact shot and could not care less. For once they nerf something my Rogue does not use. They have already nerfed things my Rogue use in the past so yeah go ahead with Impact shot nerf. I do like PvP with my Rogue and he is 13k and does fine.
The part where I don't care is that Impact Shot isn't the only PvP viable skill. I'll just trade it out for another skill of the same magnitude.
I know plenty of TRs who don't use it in PvP. I suspect that number to grow after this goes live. Which isn't that bad because almost every single TR does use it. Kind of showing how OP the encounter is(was)
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so what do you guys suggest using now?
DF and C.O.S as at wills
ItC, shadow Strike (first time im using this in forever), and ??? whats the third. deft strike? smoke? bust out wicked reminder? Nope, wicked sucks. needs to be 1-2 applications max and have a much longer duration These are not damage dealers. 85% - 90% of my dps will now come from an at-will
If they want no high burst moves then fine, but they better give TRs some more bleed damage or a strong D.O.T move to make up for that. Also, reduce the wind-up on DF. its not fair when we fight against CWs and HRs since all of our damage is coming from an at-will that plants u in place with a long wind-up and ranged classes can simply walk away from it
Our way to counter this (non perma) was with impact shot until we got in melee range again
They already nerfed cloud of steal from 12 to 8 shots.
The devs have had a massive X over rogues heads for a long time now. They don't realize that GWFs have been the most overpowered class for months now. Instead they keep giving them buffs and continue to nerf TRs non stop.
there is no skill of the same magnitude. I don't know how you play your TR but if your like me and don't play as a stealthy TR (ffs I don't even use S.S.) Impact was very important and completely irreplaceable.
Its over, get ready for 100% of TRs to play as perma in pvp
Comments
That is quite a cheap shot at the Dev's that is not needed in this forum. However, after playing with the Dev's for close to 8 hours I can assure you that they do know what they are doing. Not only did they play well enough, but they took the time to answer our questions all day long and replied with honesty and good information. I would suggest trying the PTR more with the current build and make an informed decision based over many days of trial and error. A lot of builds simply will not be as effective in the next build, and I am fine with that, but I would suggest play-testing more setups to find one that works for you.
Impact Shot needed a nerf in it's current form, but I believe that more charges should be added with diminishing returns on each volley. If they bumped it up to 4 shots with a 25% reduction per shot, you would end up with 100% damage at full,75% at 3, 50% at 2, and 25% at 1. TR's do need a little love after all the nerfs they have endured.
Idk. They new mark they get goes through TR stealth, so they can counter stealth based TRs much much easier. This mark also doesn't get removed being hit. So they gain damage from the mark, the ablility to counter rogues, and more range/slightly more damage on skills. Seems like they still have potential to me. Not to mention against rogues/cw/dc, they get the advantage of having a stat which can increase arm pen against all the damage mitigation they plan to add.
This is PvP context though. Seeing as the thread is about a PvP TR move, I assume that is the intention behind asking about GF.
Either way I don't mind impact shot nerf. I often use PoTB anyway. It will work just fine.
No they're just trying to get people to stop playing TRs entirely. Constant nerfs since the beginning of the game, damaging the class in not only PVP, but even worse in PVE. Then you look at a weak PVE class that gets an insanely huge buff, and now it's crazy unbalanced in PVP (with a daily level power on tab...), but they go after impact shot? Too funny.
We should all just play GWFs for PVP and CWs for PVE and get it over with already.
Against people that stand still and take all 4 hits its OP, against people that play AND move AND dodge will make some attacks miss.(GWF No dodge, but it just doesn't hurt unless your squish,GF Block it)
I don't like to use Impact, but the unreliability of Lashing with potential lag/ping and against decent players a lashing isn't going to one shot people , maybe if debuffed and/or prone. 20k lashing? you will kill newbs, but even CW have 25k or more if they are reasonably geared for PvP.
then if you finish someone off, pop soulforge, you have nothing, impact gives me a chance to re-finish off those people.
with new pvp stats incoming, its going to become more laughable when youhit a 28k hp CW for 12k Lashing with P.VORP or 4 consecutive impacts for 4 crits , 5k, 4k , 3k ,2k - 14k total if they don't dodge one or shield absorb
(I made up numbers like everyone else!)
So, what to use for damage? D.Flurry? its real easy to land on people that stand still!
(ps. WTB soulforge that when it procs and you rez from being prone, you don't stay prone and just insta-eat-it)
Good suggestions! I personally would not mind if IS stays as it is right now, since I use IS in Live too. People are complaining about Impact Shot mainly because it is a hard-hitting skill that can be activated instantaneously from range, and it can be hard to dodge. It also has a slight root effect which stops players on their tracks, and most of the players who are on the receiving end of IS dislike this. It almost always ensures that the 2nd and 3rd volley of IS will hit them.
Given that the nerf for IS is a little too severe by everyone's experience, we may still be able to suggest making the nerf lighter. People dislike the roots, TR's want the DPS. How about this?
I suggest that we just get rid of the Root mechanic and reduce Impact Shot's base damage by 15% without any diminishing returns for each shot remaining. Players on the receiving end will be able to rest assured that they can keep running away while we chuck IS on them.
With the massive nerf to burst damage already coming, this was unnecessary and over the top.
So now lashing blade is pointless and impact is no longer worth slotting. How are TRs supposed to do damage now??? At-wills non stop???
This is ridiculous
LB cooldown is too long after the new changes. Hoping it crits and does 6k damage (less than half of that for non crit) is a joke and not worth slotting
Do I slot all utility moves?
Do I have to play as a perma now because the other builds don't make sense?
im a 16.5k (in pvp gear) TR with a perfect vorpal and ~25% ArP. 26/31 feats are executioner so max damage spec with formorian weapons. Ive also been using the crit elixir and squash soup for an extra 15% crit severity and still found that the damage I did was laughable
If I cant make burst damage work, nobody can.
Burst is dead
Maybe it never crossed the minds of the devs that I don't want to play as a tank. I like killing stuff....
only 500k? LOL plz go farm up.
burst build has been bad for quite some time now. shame that you have not notice.
And yet you just spend your life in this game and forum, bravo. Bet your life is awesome.
I am not permastealth and my stealth is usually enough to get first strike in, but thats it. I never use Impact shot and could not care less. For once they nerf something my Rogue does not use. They have already nerfed things my Rogue use in the past so yeah go ahead with Impact shot nerf. I do like PvP with my Rogue and he is 13k and does fine.
I know plenty of TRs who don't use it in PvP. I suspect that number to grow after this goes live. Which isn't that bad because almost every single TR does use it. Kind of showing how OP the encounter is(was)
DF and C.O.S as at wills
ItC, shadow Strike (first time im using this in forever), and ??? whats the third. deft strike? smoke? bust out wicked reminder? Nope, wicked sucks. needs to be 1-2 applications max and have a much longer duration
These are not damage dealers. 85% - 90% of my dps will now come from an at-will
If they want no high burst moves then fine, but they better give TRs some more bleed damage or a strong D.O.T move to make up for that. Also, reduce the wind-up on DF. its not fair when we fight against CWs and HRs since all of our damage is coming from an at-will that plants u in place with a long wind-up and ranged classes can simply walk away from it
Our way to counter this (non perma) was with impact shot until we got in melee range again
They already nerfed cloud of steal from 12 to 8 shots.
The devs have had a massive X over rogues heads for a long time now. They don't realize that GWFs have been the most overpowered class for months now. Instead they keep giving them buffs and continue to nerf TRs non stop.
Its over, get ready for 100% of TRs to play as perma in pvp