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GWF win 1 ws 5... OP?

maarghaan979maarghaan979 Member Posts: 2
edited January 2014 in PvE Discussion
how one class can be so powerful that 5 player CANT kill him... honestly.. he stand on our base... all 5 on him... no way...
i am CW.. dmg im doing on players are about 1000-3000.. depend.. on GWF i was doing 200-300dmg... anyone can tell me how is possible to be so invincible?
sry GWFs... im not asking for nerf... i just want to understand how things going here...
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  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited January 2014
    I can stalemate GWF with significantly better gearscore than me on my GF. Permastealth TRs are also great for stalemating tough to kill GWFs. A good CW can probably outright kill him.

    The thing you're doing wrong is ganging up on him, because all that does is fill his unstoppable.

    Send in 1 or 2 people tops to combat him. Use your at wills sparingly. Use prones, because they can't use their unstoppable when they are prone.

    Keep him on his back until you're ready to kill him, and target GWF last, unless it's to prone them.
  • chipsterchipster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    how one class can be so powerful that 5 player CANT kill him... honestly.. he stand on our base... all 5 on him... no way...
    i am CW.. dmg im doing on players are about 1000-3000.. depend.. on GWF i was doing 200-300dmg... anyone can tell me how is possible to be so invincible?
    sry GWFs... im not asking for nerf... i just want to understand how things going here...

    It either he hack or you're doing something wrong.. It is impossible for a GWF to withstand 5 player's dmg let alone 2 in top GS. What level bracket are you playing? 10? 20?
  • maarghaan979maarghaan979 Member Posts: 2
    edited January 2014
    chipster wrote: »
    It either he hack or you're doing something wrong.. It is impossible for a GWF to withstand 5 player's dmg let alone 2 in top GS. What level bracket are you playing? 10? 20?

    it was 60... my group was all low (i could see by horses), my gs 10k, so also very low (pvp gear with 5s enchantments)... as i say... i was just doing abysmall dmg on him... and im ussualy dps build and using ray of enfleem(something)....

    EDIT: btw... i never had problems with GWF untill lvl 60...
  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    chipster wrote: »
    It either he hack or you're doing something wrong.. It is impossible for a GWF to withstand 5 player's dmg let alone 2 in top GS. What level bracket are you playing? 10? 20?

    He did not say how long the fight last and how did it end, but since he didnt say that the gwf killed all 5 ppl, but just survived thats how it looked imo: GWF was on their base point fighting all 5 ppl. Meanwhile 4 member of his team capped completely uncontested middle point and run to help him, killed whole his team and gwf just regenerated the lost hp back. That means gwf was tanking their team for about 30s, 40s and thats perfectly possible if whole enemy team is uncoordinated and undergeared pug. Especially without TRs being able to shocking execution him at the right time.

    Answering your question about dmg on gwf and other players - unstoppable makes him reduce incoming damage by 50%. Also, your armor penetration must be really low for pvp (and thats the best offensive stat there).
  • froszztfroszzt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 284 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    Rofl. I don't PvP much so I probably don't care as much as you guys. But I do PvP at times and it's cute how some here try to sugarcoat the state of the GWF. As I said, I do not PvP A LOT, but post patch I went into a game and even I noticed in barely a minute how OP they've gotten. And this was probably 2 days post patch so I imagine that was nothing compared to what they have become over the time passed. Listen, I play with GWF on a regular basis, very good players too, and they are the first to admit how it is. So please.. Saying that they are balanced and "just try to prone them" or "X char can stale mate them sometimes" is just empty words from a GWF that don't want to be nerfed.

    But mark my words, GWF WILL GET NERFED. Just not very much very fast since that is the same as Cryptic saying "Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, we <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this up again". It will take some time (more time) and then they will give up and put a nerf or two in. Probably at the same time as the HR gets a few tweaks. ;)
  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    froszzt wrote: »
    Rofl. I don't PvP much so I probably don't care as much as you guys. But I do PvP at times and it's cute how some here try to sugarcoat the state of the GWF. As I said, I do not PvP A LOT, but post patch I went into a game and even I noticed in barely a minute how OP they've gotten. And this was probably 2 days post patch so I imagine that was nothing compared to what they have become over the time passed. Listen, I play with GWF on a regular basis, very good players too, and they are the first to admit how it is. So please.. Saying that they are balanced and "just try to prone them" or "X char can stale mate them sometimes" is just empty words from a GWF that don't want to be nerfed.

    But mark my words, GWF WILL GET NERFED. Just not very much very fast since that is the same as Cryptic saying "Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, we <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this up again". It will take some time (more time) and then they will give up and put a nerf or two in. Probably at the same time as the HR gets a few tweaks. ;)

    Nobody here said that GWFs are balanced. Its so well known fact that sentinels are broken in PvP that nobody cares to mention that anymore. We're just giving some tips how to try to deal with them so the chance that you will be completely overwhelmed is lower.
  • andferne3andferne3 Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 104 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    If it was one of the better geared GWF's out there. I can easily see them tanking (And killing) an entire pug team. Especially if like the OP said he and his teammates are all around 10k gear score.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    it was 60... my group was all low (i could see by horses), my gs 10k, so also very low (pvp gear with 5s enchantments)... as i say... i was just doing abysmall dmg on him... and im ussualy dps build and using ray of enfleem(something)....

    EDIT: btw... i never had problems with GWF untill lvl 60...
    If he was top geared, and a pvp build he absolute could and should be able to do this against a group of poorly geared, badly pvp built pugs. Any pvp build could probably do so or come close.
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    A 15k+ PvP build GWF could quite easily wreak an entire 10k pug if they don't know how to keep GWF's at bay.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • maarghaan979maarghaan979 Member Posts: 2
    edited January 2014
    thank all on answers... seems to me that GWF took role of GF... i mean, it is more tanky then GF...

    it not bothers me that they are tanky and have high survivability... what bothers me that they are most tanky of all classes and have amazing high dmg (at least on CWs, HRs, TRs and maybe DCs if not tanky build) and very good CC (prone)... here i see unbalance...
  • kaedennnkaedennn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 361 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    it was 60... my group was all low (i could see by horses), my gs 10k, so also very low (pvp gear with 5s enchantments)... as i say... i was just doing abysmall dmg on him... and im ussualy dps build and using ray of enfleem(something)....

    EDIT: btw... i never had problems with GWF untill lvl 60...

    So here is your problem ; a gwf can have easily 17k GS by feats + r9 enchants , while a cw can maximum have 16k gs with pumping his gear with high lvl enchants.
    So before you get at least 14k Gs you can't win against a 17k GS gwf even he's afk :)
    Good game!
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kaedennn wrote: »
    So here is your problem ; a gwf can have easily 17k GS by feats + r9 enchants , while a cw can maximum have 16k gs with pumping his gear with high lvl enchants.
    So before you get at least 14k Gs you can't win against a 17k GS gwf even he's afk :)
    Good game!

    Not entirely true, I play with CW that has 17.1K GS (with HV 4/4... not 2/2 lame equips) everyday. Many more others have 15k-16k. And as always, it's not really about the GS, although a low GS usually also means a beginner unskilled player as well.

    As for the OP, you will learn to understand decent GWFs are just too much for even a geared CW. If you want to stand a chance against them, get very geared and also run a PvP spec with lots of HP and defenses. Then it will be easier for you, not that it means you gonna actually win.

    And never, ever play 5 vs 1 GWF. I leave matches when I see this. Send one person, even if they are doomed to die, to permanently contest with GWF. If, and ONLY IF you won battle at mid and have a spare CW/TR/HR, he should go and help the guy contesting to kill GWF.

    The moment you go 3/4/5 against one perma or GWF on your homepoint, the match is 99% fully lost. NEVER do that again.
  • alderonthedracoalderonthedraco Member Posts: 82
    edited January 2014
    KKK they make sets OP of regeneration / lifesteal combined with a class that has deflect, defense and mobility and immune against CCs/damage reduction virtually permanent when full geared ... GF just abandoned when I saw the nonsense they are doing with sustain of the GWF ... Simply not worth making a tank that supports less damage than a DPS half tank.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    Oh dear, the mental image conjured up is a bunch of teenage street scrubs trying to jump Robocop :)

    A BiS pvp-built anything with at least moderate skill should wreck a group of 10k puggers. A BiS (or near-BiS) pvp-built tanky senti Great Weapon Fighter, well.. that is pretty much what they do. They can be killed, but they need to be killed by similarly well-geared players who understand immunities, when to stun, and when not to stand there getting pounded.

    Sadly, without a GW2-style system of outfitting everyone with standard gear in some PvP game types, you're always going to be rolled, even if you weren't an inexperienced PUG, when you're massively outgeared.

    However, you also sound like you don't fully understand what you're facing, too- and that would doom you even with gear parity. When facing a single hard nut like that, it is strategically terrible not to just leave him to his own devices while you soak score from the other two points where he isn’t. If you're leaving your entire team on him, while the other team cap elsewhere, it's like you're asking to lose.
  • slushpsychoslushpsycho Member Posts: 657 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    You and your team must be hella undergeared

    And yeah A proper build GWF in PVP is like god for normal pugs.
  • slushpsychoslushpsycho Member Posts: 657 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    pers3phone wrote: »
    Not entirely true, I play with CW that has 17.1K GS (with HV 4/4... not 2/2 lame equips) everyday. Many more others have 15k-16k. And as always, it's not really about the GS, although a low GS usually also means a beginner unskilled player as well.

    As for the OP, you will learn to understand decent GWFs are just too much for even a geared CW. If you want to stand a chance against them, get very geared and also run a PvP spec with lots of HP and defenses. Then it will be easier for you, not that it means you gonna actually win.

    And never, ever play 5 vs 1 GWF. I leave matches when I see this. Send one person, even if they are doomed to die, to permanently contest with GWF. If, and ONLY IF you won battle at mid and have a spare CW/TR/HR, he should go and help the guy contesting to kill GWF.

    The moment you go 3/4/5 against one perma or GWF on your homepoint, the match is 99% fully lost. NEVER do that again.

    This. Should be PVP lesson No.1 as mandatory.

    Everytime a GWF pop unstoppable he heals for 5%( if feated ) and gain 8-16& HP as Temporary HP.

    That is why the more you hit him the harder to kill..
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    pers3phone wrote: »
    Not entirely true, I play with CW that has 17.1K GS (with HV 4/4... not 2/2 lame equips) everyday. Many more others have 15k-16k. And as always, it's not really about the GS, although a low GS usually also means a beginner unskilled player as well.

    As for the OP, you will learn to understand decent GWFs are just too much for even a geared CW. If you want to stand a chance against them, get very geared and also run a PvP spec with lots of HP and defenses. Then it will be easier for you, not that it means you gonna actually win.

    And never, ever play 5 vs 1 GWF. I leave matches when I see this. Send one person, even if they are doomed to die, to permanently contest with GWF. If, and ONLY IF you won battle at mid and have a spare CW/TR/HR, he should go and help the guy contesting to kill GWF.

    The moment you go 3/4/5 against one perma or GWF on your homepoint, the match is 99% fully lost. NEVER do that again.


    A single CW isn't rly supposed to kill a 40k hp BiS TANK build. I wonder when people will finally learn this... A CW is more of a support class and by CCing they give the DD's enough time to kill tougher targets.

    This is how it works.

  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    A single CW isn't rly supposed to kill a 40k hp BiS TANK build. I wonder when people will finally learn this... A CW is more of a support class and by CCing they give the DD's enough time to kill tougher targets.

    This is how it works.

    No.

    This is NOT how it should work.

    BiS PvP CW should have 50% chance to kill BiS PvP GWF, if both experienced. Simple as that.

    There is absolutely NO REASON in this world one class should have advantages over another. You don't get to have god-classes, each with fair chances against the others.

    Other MMOs solved this by offering large pools of abilities, so a (skilled) class knows what to use against other classes. Large action bars as well.

    Also other MMOs give squishies fair chance by giving them stuff such as invisibility, diverse shields, mirror images, speed increases, heals, immunities and so on.

    In this game, some classes lack proper tools to deal with others. To have a slim chance you have to spec in PvE-useless PvP specs, and the game doesn't even have dual spec.

    Crazy, I know.
  • yukimaru153yukimaru153 Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    how one class can be so powerful that 5 player CANT kill him... honestly.. he stand on our base... all 5 on him... no way...
    i am CW.. dmg im doing on players are about 1000-3000.. depend.. on GWF i was doing 200-300dmg... anyone can tell me how is possible to be so invincible?
    sry GWFs... im not asking for nerf... i just want to understand how things going here...

    Ya know what your right. im 15.9 gs, 4300 power 2600ap, 33% crit and i cant kill the sent gwf. So.... people saying that "a good cw can outright kill it is bs" lol not and equally geared sent gwf. The game screwed up.They wanted to make GWF stronger in pve but messed it up to hell and back in pvp. I have fought GWF friends for 5min's o.O. Why? because they have defense,40% deflect,40k hp, regen that would put most dc's to same and ohhhh god mode (aka unstoppable). Not to mention that if you mess up 1 time "1 time" its "rush, prone, ****, ****, prone......... and if by some miracle you are still alive they can just charge up to you again and **** you for the second time. Because on top of all the defense they have they still have great damage......which makes no **** sense. Its like giving a dc thats Now with this being said. Hell yes it op. No toon should be able to have defense, deflect in fast amounts, hp off the charts, and the easy button/god mode/ "i was charging at you earlier now i can just run fast as your teleport" (aka unstoppable) its an epic fail in pvp. I would rather fight a perma stealth rogue than a gwf..... which is also broken and has been since the game has existed.....but.... the tr actually can die.... rare but **** it there's a hell of a lot better chance than the troll class GWF. I mean sen GWF. And if a GWF says " i get killed all the time" well.....this maybe rude but its true. your doing something hella wrong. I'm willing to fraps a dule if you like. Maybe it would be best if i did any how. perhaps the developers need to see the monster they created. Because if they tested that and its really what they intended it to be in pvp.....I soooooo will just will just avoid the matches with the "GWF the everliving" ......
  • vortix44vortix44 Member Posts: 680 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    how one class can be so powerful that 5 player CANT kill him... honestly.. he stand on our base... all 5 on him... no way...
    i am CW.. dmg im doing on players are about 1000-3000.. depend.. on GWF i was doing 200-300dmg... anyone can tell me how is possible to be so invincible?
    sry GWFs... im not asking for nerf... i just want to understand how things going here...

    Gwf or Sent?
    But even if it's a Sent, by browsing the Library subforum you can find tips to help you. There is for instance a chill mage who explained how he deliberately equipped a very low orb, to avoid dealing damage and preventing the gwf from ever becoming unstoppable.
    English is not my first language.
  • yukimaru153yukimaru153 Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I agree with you 100% the squishy is the top dps in most mmos in pvp or pve. "but it hits so hard." yes it also dies so easily. those with defense/survivability are the ones who deal the least damage. This game kinda got it *** backwards. In a way. honestly the only thing i cw really cant kill is the GWF and well perma stealth rogue efficiently. but...who the hell can kill something that can attack them and yet you cant see them. (yet another first for me in an mmo. never have seen a hide abilty that lets you use skills and say hidden. and please don't tell me "i can only use a few skill" most games its none. anything you do will bring you out of hide other than just moving around.) Perhaps they should change it from stealth to "cheap shot". far more befitting in my opinion :-). However despite my rants i have to say this game is not really pvp focused. So.... crazy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like whats going on now...ehh kinda gotta expect it.
  • yukimaru153yukimaru153 Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    wont make a difference. a long fight for a cw is an unwanted one. Were not built (game wise) to do that. so low damage would not even help at all. Your just delaying death. You want the burst. because short of a daily you don't stand a chance in hell. And when you use that daily you want it to hit hard as it can. Like i said I can go the rounds but results will be the same. Little by little i will get worn down. And as a CW we dont have the staying power for a match like that. Nor are we suppose to.
  • ytjayytjay Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 14
    edited January 2014
    yup I do it quite often on my 18k, Don't really play my gwf anymore since it isn't as fun as it was less of a challenge
  • todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've always thought removing Unstoppable's Temp. HP would fix this problem. Give GWFs something in return like 10% more damage in return. Temp. HP works so well with the huge defensive buffs of the GWF that it practically buffers whatever damage players can deal to GWF's during their Unstoppable phase.
  • ytjayytjay Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 14
    edited January 2014
    I don't think unstoppable is the issue at all - I mean before md.2 pvp was pretty much based around rogues & gwfs couldn't do much about it, now the GWF matches its appearance people are now trying to complain about it
  • ytjayytjay Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 14
    edited January 2014
    What I said there wasn't to say GWFs are not OP - But on my rogue recently ive been able to 1 hit GWFs - it's really just a matter of them knowing their class and having either defensive stats built up or high gs.
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    ytjay wrote: »
    What I said there wasn't to say GWFs are not OP - But on my rogue recently ive been able to 1 hit GWFs - it's really just a matter of them knowing their class and having either defensive stats built up or high gs.

    A TR can kill a lower geared Destroyer spec GWF. It's gonna be rough vs a fully geared sentinel though.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • ytjayytjay Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 14
    edited January 2014
    Well.. I've watched DarkMaster (17.4k GS TR) Vs A 17k gwf and to be honest it was a close fight, TRs have a lot of different ways of diverting hits
  • jazzfongjazzfong Member Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    GWF now is not OP but is more easy to use in pvp. Let say we invested 2 mil AD in gear, enchant and horse, a GWF will perform much better than the others. I don't know how the other classes feel but even a GWF is BIS geared, if he doesn't prone me thrice in a row or knock me out from my circle, i wont die. I will use my Exaltation immunity or BtS debuff to keep me alive. That's all for me.
  • xellizxelliz Member Posts: 955 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Of course this no different than any other class, just an example of a geared class with a certain build.

    People have complained about DPS GF that kill them in 1 rotation of encounters.
    People have complained about "1 shot TR" and Perma stealth TR
    People have complained about "1 shot Ice Knife CW" and perma CC CW
    Of course people actually rejoiced that DC can make a tanky/heal/regen that survives

    Now people just complain loudest about Sent GWF because they have access to IV path.


    I personally have a Sent GWF that has been 60 for months, but just respecced to IV. I am good in PVP, but not godly because I don't have 15k+. Most people don't...but more people are getting there which just means newer players are a little more likely to run into this and other super geared classes. Same thing in L2 when your pvp vs someone with full epic jewels and you had none.
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