GWF is the most powerful PVP class in the game currently. Mobility, damage, toughness - complete package.
Since my GWF hit 60 I don't think I have lost any fight in a 1v1 scenario, however I have ran across a DC & GWF that I couldn't kill & vice versa...as well as 1GF (which I would blame on server lag). I have seen some very good kiters (CW & HR) and TRs who try to stealth & run, but they never get away - their only chance is to run to their team mates & hope they can save them or prolong the fight long enough for their team to run to help them.
When one character can add this much position control to a match, you need GWFs on both teams if they are evenly geared or the team without the GWF is at a major disadvantage.
Is there any other class in the game that puts you at such a disadvantage if you don't have one on your team and you opponents do?
That being said I would rather face a high gear GWF on my CW than a TR, because I at least get to fight back a bit. Stealth + Impossible to catch is pretty OP itself.
Edit: I've yet to find a stealth TR I fear on my GWF. Run to where he is, & just spam TR, stealth doesn't work up close.
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stickyjonesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited January 2014
best reply so far pando. seems like finally there is one, who knows about this game, and not only whining on the mechanics!
this game is about 20% pvp.. and killing a class in response to pvp issues is not a successful way forward for this game.. GWF still struggles in pve.. 90% of the population still cant get a decent CN party.
I know people are complaining about threatening rush and deep gash the most.. IF these 2 things are nerfed in response to pvp... the class will still need a MAJOR buff in other areas to compensate or the class with again be completely dead in pve.. I agree sentinel gwf are OP.. but so are TRs...
to highlight this a very prominent sentinel GWF lost 1v1 vs a prominent TR this week.. what does that tell you? sentinel GWFs are not the only issue In pvp.. and if they are nerfed alone... well that will leave the TRs to completely dominate..
I also play a pve GWF.. if deep gash and threatening rush are nerfed with no other buffs... that's the end of the game for me as my toon will be worthless again..
About GWFs struggling to find parties:
- people are pretty dumb and their mentality need to be changed. A good starting point is videos like yours that show the awesomeness of PvE GWFs.
- some GWFs are kinda meh at their class and need help from the more experienced people
About the rest:
- PvE and PvP need to be separated and treated as individual entities, so tweaking a class in PvP should not affect the class in PvE for example. This is quite easy to achieve, by creating mandatory Resilience gear for PvP: no Resi, you get one shot. Resi should serve no purpose in PvE.
After you made sure everybody will have to wear some resi gear or die FAST in PvP, you tweak the stats on the PvP gear to balance class damage output and survivability.
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stickyjonesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Try playing top tier PVP.. TR is still the king.. so gtfo GWF.. there is still a better class for top tier pvp
there are more than one class which is better atm.
i just want to remember that a gwf never cant do anything vs a exploitin HR, who got his artefact ready in 30 sec and perma spam his encounters!
I love your last sentence~ They should just remove powerful challenge and threatening rush completely from the game. They should also decrease the student of the sword to max 5%, and deep gash to max 5%. Or just change it to 25-50% threat for both.
I have a 16k GWF (Have all classes over 14k except HR). He was very tough before module2 thought not 16k without the artifacts. Now if I pvp with him while pugging the otherside swears at me and quits. We didn't need another gap closer and more damage in PvP. The extra damage is nice in PvE but I didn't need a gap closer there either. Not sure why the devs decided we need this change, tbh.
I don't have a super strong opinion on this specific skill. General balance is pretty skewed so general fixes are needed. Melee continues to dominate PvP and, with mod2, the gap is just bigger than before though HR is definitely a contender if you are both skilled and geared.
I think the real issue in pvp is there are certain things that are unfun. Immortal, even temporarily immortal, characters are not fun to play against and aren't even that fun to play except for the occasional trolling session. GWFs have fantastic defense, are basically unCCable and now have fantastic damage and you can't get away from us. I don't blame anyone when they quit after facing all of that.
Stealth is another one of those mechanics that aren't fun to play against. PWE did a much better job on HR stealth than on TR stealth. Very short moments of stealth can be balanced. Very long really can't.
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
You mean a GWF in full rank10s and perfects dies in every fight on Draco using scroll to revive? Agreed!
might want to watch my CN video.. where the DC des at 80% hp. 4 man the rest. Im not all rank 10s and I only have a normal soulforge...... And during that fight I don't even proc soulforge.. no res... no death..... so idk what you mean
might want to watch my CN video.. where the DC des at 80% hp. 4 man the rest. Im not all rank 10s and I only have a normal soulforge...... And during that fight I don't even proc soulforge.. no res... no death..... so idk what you mean
I have a 16k GWF (Have all classes over 14k except HR). He was very tough before module2 thought not 16k without the artifacts. Now if I pvp with him while pugging the otherside swears at me and quits. We didn't need another gap closer and more damage in PvP. The extra damage is nice in PvE but I didn't need a gap closer there either. Not sure why the devs decided we need this change, tbh.
I don't have a super strong opinion on this specific skill. General balance is pretty skewed so general fixes are needed. Melee continues to dominate PvP and, with mod2, the gap is just bigger than before though HR is definitely a contender if you are both skilled and geared.
I think the real issue in pvp is there are certain things that are unfun. Immortal, even temporarily immortal, characters are not fun to play against and aren't even that fun to play except for the occasional trolling session. GWFs have fantastic defense, are basically unCCable and now have fantastic damage and you can't get away from us. I don't blame anyone when they quit after facing all of that.
Stealth is another one of those mechanics that aren't fun to play against. PWE did a much better job on HR stealth than on TR stealth. Very short moments of stealth can be balanced. Very long really can't.
Because... that's how D&D fighters work. People should really look up D&D before actually playing NW...
Or just read the thread, i already explained it.
1) Threat rush must be fixed. Spamming it is most likely not WAI, just as animation cut was not WAI for WMS. And that's all
2) Sentinels are not the only GWF types, and IV sentinel is not the only build. You guys keep talking about "GWFs", which means you don't even know the class and the different possible builds. Like, for example, destroyer GWFs or hybrids.
3) GWFs are the only class that DOES NOT have a immunity move. Any other class have something that makes them immune to damage for a period of time. Some classes (TRs) have more than one. GWFs are a melee class that has to eat all the damage coming from, usually, multiple targets. When they go unstoppable after eating damage, they still take some damage. That's the reason why they have bravery, unstoppable and sprint to colose the gaps fast.
I remember not so long ago, a TR made a thread whining about how OP the GWFs are now. In the end, his complaint turned into "before module 2 i was able to kite forever a GWF, now i can't".
- Trs can go stealth, highest spike damage of all classes, ITC invulnerability, dodge roll immunitys. TRs who know how to use their class, can leave very few seconds of vulnerability going from stealth to ITC to dodge roll immunity.
- CWs can do very high DPS, use their unavoidable, high damage daily (ice knife) often, repel, cc from range, attack from higher ground and use 3 teleport immunity moves when reached.
- DCs can heal, use protection spells like astral shield, go tanky and use shift immunity moves
- GFs are tanky and can avoid damage through blocking with their shield. Also, they can double the damage on one target and then chain-prone the target
- HRs can root the enemy a lot, and root goes through unstoppable. Can DPS from distance and have lots of mobility and dodge immunity moves.
Now, if in all this, you think threat rush in overpowered and must be removed, may be you don't know how to build your class correctly to create sinergies between the different abilities you have.
Last, this is a Group PvP game.
Different strenghts and different abilities, along with knowledge of the battlefield, can be used in an action mmorpg during combat.
If you think that you must be able to facetank every enemy, or that you should have a power to counter every move of your enemy, you're wrong.
GWFs have no power to, for example, counter a permastealth whisperknife DPSing them from stealth. The counter is: experience. You fight a lot, you learn how to spot them by using your sprint and mobility and experience. You are able to guess where they hide, and eventually hunt them down. And it's not thanks to threat rush (which must have a target to activate. And a stealthed TR can't be targeted) or unstoppable.
Learn to make good use of the "action" part of the combat.
GWFs can catch you. You can't kite them forever. Accept it. No matter how much you complain, you've to learn to fight them. Learn how to make them waste their prone powers, learn to position yourself if you're a ranged class and use the battlefield at your advantage. I'm able, as a GWF, often, to kite enemies just fooling them using the columns in the Hotenow map. Or get an enemy who's chasing you just by making an ambush, waiting for him, hiding behind a corner.
Action means you do not just rely on your powers to win in combat.
Another example: i read many complaints like "we were 5 ppl shooting this one sentinel, and he wouldn't go down!!!!!"
Now, what i see on the battlefield: half assed damage, directed at the sentinel tank while he's standing, allowing him to go unstoppable more, encounters used on him while in unstoppable.
How it should be done: CW cc him, GF or GWF prone him, then all DPS him as fast as they can, prone again if you can, DPS again. If he goes unstoppable, avoid, run to team mates to mess up his aim so that he can't focus on 1 target. Since you've to aim in this game, it's easy to run in a group of players and mess up the enemy aim. Good DCs do that a lot.
You guys are too focused on "oh my god, GWFs can rush at me", and forget about all the rest.
Uhh....Ice Knife is not unavoidable like...at all. Only way to reliably land that is to have a CC already on someone.
Fix the animation cancelling issue on TR and see how that goes first, work from there.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
First of all , Hello everyone! I saw this forum topic and decided to give my cents about it, i've always loved tank-dps builds in mmorpg's and naturally went for the GWF which i freaking adore b/c it is extremely versatile , generally i hybridize any char build i make in any game cuz i like to get the best of everything and perfect it by having different sets of armour / skills(feats&powers) for the purpose that i need to take at that point , and i think many people playing the gwf's are doing pretty much the same thing as me and it's something that you fail to comprehend and just resort to call it op, it's not op mates not at all to have a good build for pvp / pve you need to compromise, now regarding domination PVP which in my opinion is the biggest broken mechaninc in game it just fails maybe because of players being let's say unworthy and having no idea how to play or what are the priorities, mostly pvp, it's like this : oh we need to get the base closer to us 4 players go there 1 guy goes to common gets demolished, gets pissed off leaves, now you have a situation of 4 low IQ players against 5 and ever so often in those 5 there is a GWF with some brain and GS + specs to just go in and destroy those slow-minded individuals , ofc not alone trust me it's not as op as you call it, cuz what u say is: it can run through 3 guys and focus me down while tanking the dmg from the rest , that is op it shouldn't happen + he hits so hard and i can't kill it or stay away from it... imo freaking learn to play i've seen so many that just fail with their epic chars/builds for example a gwf should never be able to get close to a CW/TR/HR and if u are fighting even 1v1 as a GWF against a good easy-mode class mentioned early you don't stand a chance even with threatening rush animation cancelling simply because u are not fast enough to get in close combat and prone/stunlock their bottoms to the ground finishing them off with a nice crit. My opinion stop thinking, comparing how it used to be with how it is now and start learning the tactics u need to use against a good/decent GWF. there are still many bugs , game mechanics that don't work properly in this game but to call upon nerfing a class just because u fail against it ... maybe do a respec or stop doing pvp cuz it's not simple it's complicated and requires teamwork which most of the players i've seen fail hardcore then leave, and the rest are crying here about OP GWF. unstopable is op? yeah and dealing 17-20k crits while being invisible or impossible to catch / get close to it's WAI?. stop crying start playing better!
have you parsed this? Cus it doesn't. Powerful Challenge is either bugged or WAI but it only adds +15%, replacing the +8%. Kill Marks from IBS only add +8% even with Powerful Challenge.
There are good dps feats in Sentinel tree but this isn't one of them.
I did test this, but admittedly it was on the preveiw server for the shadow module. On the preview server at the time, it added 15% on top of the 8% form mark for 23%. I can test it again later tonight when I get home form work. If that is the case, it does reduce the value of powerful challenge more so than I thought. It is still however a solid damage boost.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Again, everyone has this or that opinion about the GWF.. and nobody mentions the Determination-Unstoppable mechanics. Damage? Toughness? Spammable massive attacks? Gapclosers? CCs? All of what makes a deadly (and quite a bit OP) GWF, can still be countered.
The one thing, that single feature that brings all of those massively powerful character traits, and binds them into one freak of nature, is Unstoppable.
Let's face the facts here. Its not the damage, it's not the runspeed, it's not the CCs, not their toughness, heck not even regen/heal rate. It's the "I am (literally) Unstoppable! Buwhahahahaha" that makes it so difficult to counter them.
Sure, some of us can bring the GWF down in a 1vs1. It takes meticulous planning that leaves zero room for mistakes, a perfect execution to do so (not like how the GWF can make ton of stupid moves and still be able to roflstomp someone if he gets just one good shot in). But PvP is not 1vs1. It is usually the very first, large-scale fight that ensues in the middle node/capture zone, where you see why GWF just crushes the balance.
Just give him a little support from behind, whether be it damage or CC or heals, and he literally just ignores everything and runs straight toward into your own formation to take out your team's important rear-line classes, whether they be ranged damage HR, or CW with CCs, or DC with heals. Your team is in total chaos, your formation breaks, the victim of the GWF frantically tries to run with no avail, others try to support him but you can't stop him at all. Your formation is pushed and scattered way back, and from that point on, your team is simply destroyed one-by-one.
All because of what?
The Unstoppable that activates almost back to back. Such a short, brief, small window of vulnerability as Unstoppable finishes. Wow. Your chance to kill the GWF, right? Wrong. After a few seconds of focused fire, bam! Unstoppable is back. GWF goes into a killing spree again.
I've mentioned in other threads, but I don't want to see Unstoppable nerfed down to ActionPoints-Dailies levels. But as it is, its up way too long, way too often, and comes back way too soon. There's a reason why people ridicule that as long as the GS is comparable, you can just walk straight into enemy lines and kill everyone. This is not true, but GWFs do give out that much impact in actual team combat, that people really drop their jaws and just have to cry out; bullchi* !!
Fix the frequency of Unstoppable. Make Determination growth slower, implement an internal cooldown, or anything.
Imagine a TR using ITC that has a 15 second CC immunity and an 8 second recharge time, and then imagine what he's going to do your HRs and CWs when the fight begins. Nobody's going to put up with that kind of bullchi*, so why are we putting up with Unstoppable?
(ps) Just for the record, I mainly use TRs, and my opinion is that the perma-stealth mechanics are simply an oversight from the developers who refuse to acknowledge it and fix it. Yes, perma-stealth requires a fix. In a PvP where attacks from stealth does not break stealth, a build that allows permanent stealth is conceptually problematic and broken.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I agree that the sentinel spec is for people who need a crutch to carry them through the game.
But why do people insist to go 1on1 against tanks? Is it recklessnes or stupidity? I wonder which part of the words "Tank spec" these people fail to realize.
1v1? I've run into quite a few pre-mades with 4 sent and 1 DC. Enough said.
Fix the frequency of Unstoppable. Make Determination growth slower, implement an internal cooldown, or anything.
I've seen in another post (maybe it was u?) that suggested changing determination growth to depend on life lost, not damage taken. I think this might do the trick.
I've seen in another post (maybe it was u?) that suggested changing determination growth to depend on life lost, not damage taken. I think this might do the trick.
That was Ayroux. I like his suggestion as well.
I have a simpler one, though, and I think it'll be just as effective without needing to code complicated new mechanics.
I suggest just removing the Temp. HP that Unstoppable gives. Just give Sents their at-will speed increase, CC immunity, and increase in mitigation. In order to make up for the loss in temp. HP, give GWFs a boost in Run Speed and a flat percentage of Deflect during their Unstoppable phases. The problem is that the Temp. HP completely puts a stop to the effective damage we can do against GWFs in general. It acts as an HP buffer which allows GWF's to regen their real HP while we whittle down their temp. HP. We either have to wait for Unstoppable to finish and kite them, but that will let them regen their HP. Or we can attack them and try to take their temp. HP down, but a GWF's temp HP synergizes well with their defenses and deflect. Unless you can do something about that Temp. HP, you won't be denting that GWF.
So it's either they remove the Temp. HP, give them something else. Or they change Temp. HP's mechanic, one that will make Temp. HP drain in time, or tone it down a little by making it independent from defenses and deflect. Meaning if you hit someone with Temp HP for 1000 damage, they will get 1000 reduced from their temp HP regardless of defenses or deflection.
The only way to survive GWF if you are not in his gear level, is to create some distance while he is immune. This can't be done right now...and it only costs them a click.
if you arent the same gear level you SHOULDN'T survive him. especially considering the gwfs who lvled and geared before mod2 had to put in 1.5x~2x the effort of other classes to get that gear (i remember looking for party for t2 more than 40 min during DD many times when guild wasnt on, and run with bugging noobs just cause it was impossible to find legit pt, and i could outdps 90% ppl even then) so please dont cry how you are too lazy to earn your gear and how gwfs stomp you
Threatening rush should be changed, maybe add some channeling time that increases dmg, smth like reaping, change animation(cause the one that we have now is simply BAD) and put some internal cooldown(0.5~1 sec)
Paladin Master Race
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stickyjonesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
1v1? I've run into quite a few pre-mades with 4 sent and 1 DC. Enough said.
why the hell isnt it played in the most premades, if its that strong? yes, cause its fail, and u would loose everytime you face a well formated combo of enemys
if you arent the same gear level you SHOULDN'T survive him. especially considering the gwfs who lvled and geared before mod2 had to put in 1.5x~2x the effort of other classes to get that gear (i remember looking for party for t2 more than 40 min during DD many times when guild wasnt on, and run with bugging noobs just cause it was impossible to find legit pt, and i could outdps 90% ppl even then) so please dont cry how you are too lazy to earn your gear and how gwfs stomp you
Threatening rush should be changed, maybe add some channeling time that increases dmg, smth like reaping, change animation(cause the one that we have now is simply BAD) and put some internal cooldown(0.5~1 sec)
So much wrong here.
The problem with Sent GWF's is this:
High Mobility
High Tank
High Damage
One has to go. It's as simple as that.
The only current way to deal with a GWF right now is to burst with prone chaining, which works on ANY class.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
why the hell isnt it played in the most premades, if its that strong? yes, cause its fail, and u would loose everytime you face a well formated combo of enemys
5 sent would be the most OP premade combo easily but who would play against them? sure they can queue into a pug match but they will just leave, and nobody in their right mind will fight 5 gwf in an organized premade. Even 2 gwf most premades wont play against, most of them want a rainbow comp but usually its ok to have 2 of 1 class also. 2 gwf's is very op already let alone 5. If you think it's not op and want to face 1 just pm me... same handle as on forum
5 sent would be the most OP premade combo easily but who would play against them? sure they can queue into a pug match but they will just leave, and nobody in their right mind will fight 5 gwf in an organized premade. Even 2 gwf most premades wont play against, most of them want a rainbow comp but usually its ok to have 2 of 1 class also. 2 gwf's is very op already let alone 5. If you think it's not op and want to face 1 just pm me... same handle as on forum
Comments
Since my GWF hit 60 I don't think I have lost any fight in a 1v1 scenario, however I have ran across a DC & GWF that I couldn't kill & vice versa...as well as 1GF (which I would blame on server lag). I have seen some very good kiters (CW & HR) and TRs who try to stealth & run, but they never get away - their only chance is to run to their team mates & hope they can save them or prolong the fight long enough for their team to run to help them.
When one character can add this much position control to a match, you need GWFs on both teams if they are evenly geared or the team without the GWF is at a major disadvantage.
Is there any other class in the game that puts you at such a disadvantage if you don't have one on your team and you opponents do?
That being said I would rather face a high gear GWF on my CW than a TR, because I at least get to fight back a bit. Stealth + Impossible to catch is pretty OP itself.
Edit: I've yet to find a stealth TR I fear on my GWF. Run to where he is, & just spam TR, stealth doesn't work up close.
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
About GWFs struggling to find parties:
- people are pretty dumb and their mentality need to be changed. A good starting point is videos like yours that show the awesomeness of PvE GWFs.
- some GWFs are kinda meh at their class and need help from the more experienced people
About the rest:
- PvE and PvP need to be separated and treated as individual entities, so tweaking a class in PvP should not affect the class in PvE for example. This is quite easy to achieve, by creating mandatory Resilience gear for PvP: no Resi, you get one shot. Resi should serve no purpose in PvE.
After you made sure everybody will have to wear some resi gear or die FAST in PvP, you tweak the stats on the PvP gear to balance class damage output and survivability.
there are more than one class which is better atm.
i just want to remember that a gwf never cant do anything vs a exploitin HR, who got his artefact ready in 30 sec and perma spam his encounters!
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
I have a 16k GWF (Have all classes over 14k except HR). He was very tough before module2 thought not 16k without the artifacts. Now if I pvp with him while pugging the otherside swears at me and quits. We didn't need another gap closer and more damage in PvP. The extra damage is nice in PvE but I didn't need a gap closer there either. Not sure why the devs decided we need this change, tbh.
I don't have a super strong opinion on this specific skill. General balance is pretty skewed so general fixes are needed. Melee continues to dominate PvP and, with mod2, the gap is just bigger than before though HR is definitely a contender if you are both skilled and geared.
I think the real issue in pvp is there are certain things that are unfun. Immortal, even temporarily immortal, characters are not fun to play against and aren't even that fun to play except for the occasional trolling session. GWFs have fantastic defense, are basically unCCable and now have fantastic damage and you can't get away from us. I don't blame anyone when they quit after facing all of that.
Stealth is another one of those mechanics that aren't fun to play against. PWE did a much better job on HR stealth than on TR stealth. Very short moments of stealth can be balanced. Very long really can't.
might want to watch my CN video.. where the DC des at 80% hp. 4 man the rest. Im not all rank 10s and I only have a normal soulforge...... And during that fight I don't even proc soulforge.. no res... no death..... so idk what you mean
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
Because... that's how D&D fighters work. People should really look up D&D before actually playing NW...
Or just read the thread, i already explained it.
Uhh....Ice Knife is not unavoidable like...at all. Only way to reliably land that is to have a CC already on someone.
Fix the animation cancelling issue on TR and see how that goes first, work from there.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
I did test this, but admittedly it was on the preveiw server for the shadow module. On the preview server at the time, it added 15% on top of the 8% form mark for 23%. I can test it again later tonight when I get home form work. If that is the case, it does reduce the value of powerful challenge more so than I thought. It is still however a solid damage boost.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
The one thing, that single feature that brings all of those massively powerful character traits, and binds them into one freak of nature, is Unstoppable.
Let's face the facts here. Its not the damage, it's not the runspeed, it's not the CCs, not their toughness, heck not even regen/heal rate. It's the "I am (literally) Unstoppable! Buwhahahahaha" that makes it so difficult to counter them.
Sure, some of us can bring the GWF down in a 1vs1. It takes meticulous planning that leaves zero room for mistakes, a perfect execution to do so (not like how the GWF can make ton of stupid moves and still be able to roflstomp someone if he gets just one good shot in). But PvP is not 1vs1. It is usually the very first, large-scale fight that ensues in the middle node/capture zone, where you see why GWF just crushes the balance.
Just give him a little support from behind, whether be it damage or CC or heals, and he literally just ignores everything and runs straight toward into your own formation to take out your team's important rear-line classes, whether they be ranged damage HR, or CW with CCs, or DC with heals. Your team is in total chaos, your formation breaks, the victim of the GWF frantically tries to run with no avail, others try to support him but you can't stop him at all. Your formation is pushed and scattered way back, and from that point on, your team is simply destroyed one-by-one.
All because of what?
The Unstoppable that activates almost back to back. Such a short, brief, small window of vulnerability as Unstoppable finishes. Wow. Your chance to kill the GWF, right? Wrong. After a few seconds of focused fire, bam! Unstoppable is back. GWF goes into a killing spree again.
I've mentioned in other threads, but I don't want to see Unstoppable nerfed down to ActionPoints-Dailies levels. But as it is, its up way too long, way too often, and comes back way too soon. There's a reason why people ridicule that as long as the GS is comparable, you can just walk straight into enemy lines and kill everyone. This is not true, but GWFs do give out that much impact in actual team combat, that people really drop their jaws and just have to cry out; bullchi* !!
Fix the frequency of Unstoppable. Make Determination growth slower, implement an internal cooldown, or anything.
Imagine a TR using ITC that has a 15 second CC immunity and an 8 second recharge time, and then imagine what he's going to do your HRs and CWs when the fight begins. Nobody's going to put up with that kind of bullchi*, so why are we putting up with Unstoppable?
(ps) Just for the record, I mainly use TRs, and my opinion is that the perma-stealth mechanics are simply an oversight from the developers who refuse to acknowledge it and fix it. Yes, perma-stealth requires a fix. In a PvP where attacks from stealth does not break stealth, a build that allows permanent stealth is conceptually problematic and broken.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
1v1? I've run into quite a few pre-mades with 4 sent and 1 DC. Enough said.
I've seen in another post (maybe it was u?) that suggested changing determination growth to depend on life lost, not damage taken. I think this might do the trick.
That was Ayroux. I like his suggestion as well.
I have a simpler one, though, and I think it'll be just as effective without needing to code complicated new mechanics.
I suggest just removing the Temp. HP that Unstoppable gives. Just give Sents their at-will speed increase, CC immunity, and increase in mitigation. In order to make up for the loss in temp. HP, give GWFs a boost in Run Speed and a flat percentage of Deflect during their Unstoppable phases. The problem is that the Temp. HP completely puts a stop to the effective damage we can do against GWFs in general. It acts as an HP buffer which allows GWF's to regen their real HP while we whittle down their temp. HP. We either have to wait for Unstoppable to finish and kite them, but that will let them regen their HP. Or we can attack them and try to take their temp. HP down, but a GWF's temp HP synergizes well with their defenses and deflect. Unless you can do something about that Temp. HP, you won't be denting that GWF.
So it's either they remove the Temp. HP, give them something else. Or they change Temp. HP's mechanic, one that will make Temp. HP drain in time, or tone it down a little by making it independent from defenses and deflect. Meaning if you hit someone with Temp HP for 1000 damage, they will get 1000 reduced from their temp HP regardless of defenses or deflection.
Opinions?
if you arent the same gear level you SHOULDN'T survive him. especially considering the gwfs who lvled and geared before mod2 had to put in 1.5x~2x the effort of other classes to get that gear (i remember looking for party for t2 more than 40 min during DD many times when guild wasnt on, and run with bugging noobs just cause it was impossible to find legit pt, and i could outdps 90% ppl even then) so please dont cry how you are too lazy to earn your gear and how gwfs stomp you
Threatening rush should be changed, maybe add some channeling time that increases dmg, smth like reaping, change animation(cause the one that we have now is simply BAD) and put some internal cooldown(0.5~1 sec)
why the hell isnt it played in the most premades, if its that strong? yes, cause its fail, and u would loose everytime you face a well formated combo of enemys
So much wrong here.
The problem with Sent GWF's is this:
High Mobility
High Tank
High Damage
One has to go. It's as simple as that.
The only current way to deal with a GWF right now is to burst with prone chaining, which works on ANY class.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Grats, you just described a Trickster rogue.
I'm out of here, i can't cope with the amount of stupidity anymore. I wish NW had an IQ test prior to installation.
Funny, I seem to recall lots of posts about broken TR specs too. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
they would find a way to glitch it
PS. i think that also describes combat HR
PPS. there are many ways to deal with sent gwf, but you are too lazy so just want a nerf.
5 sent would be the most OP premade combo easily but who would play against them? sure they can queue into a pug match but they will just leave, and nobody in their right mind will fight 5 gwf in an organized premade. Even 2 gwf most premades wont play against, most of them want a rainbow comp but usually its ok to have 2 of 1 class also. 2 gwf's is very op already let alone 5. If you think it's not op and want to face 1 just pm me... same handle as on forum
pain. just prone and pain.
put 3 DC + whatever for a free win