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Threatening rush
dongargon
Member Posts: 23 Arc User
The at-will skill Threatening Rush use by the Gwf needs a charge use like the Tr at-will skill Cloud of Steel. This skill at the moment is so spam able by a Gwf is not even plus with the use of sprint and their tab ability. There is no chance of giving yourself room to attack them. The Vanguard Sentinel Gwf is like fighting Abberrant berserker in Pve the only difference is you have a chance to defend yourself and kill the Abberant. Their tab ability should be rename to Shazam, oh there is Billy Batson coming to attack us, what the hell just happen I am fighting Captain Marvel now.
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Take care.
I don't know if this change took place in order to boost GWF PvE viability as a tank (applying marks), but right now this at-will creates huge problems in PvP without giving them anything more in PvE other than increased damage if the go Sentinel.
It seems that we are not the only ones.
I have just re-specced my GWF (he's just 52) to Iron Vanguard - Sentinel and jesus the damage it does! I mean:
Threatening Rush (marked) with Powerful Challenge at 5 - + 15% dmg to marked targets
Takedown with Trample the Fallen (another 15% to controlled targets)
and then Indomitable Battle Strike
At level 52 I was doing over 10k crits to mobs. I think the GWF should have two paths - single (current swordmaster) and aoe - as for now with Frontline and all the other stuff it just blows away.
There are other issues with PvP sentinels I detailed on another thread in the Barracks, but the thread was eventually closed because of flaming from both sides. The crux though is that only Sentinels can get the 3 biggest damage boosters, Student of the Sword (+15% damage), Powerful Challenge (+15% damage to marked targets on top of the normal 8% for 23% more damage), and Deep Gash which even with a modicum of power does ridiculous damage on encounter crits. Destroyers and Insitgators, the DPS paths, cannot have all 3 of these.
My recommended fixes,
1. Fix animation cancelling of TR.
2. Change Powerful Challenge from 15% more damage to 25-50% more threat. Nerfs the dps of the feat, but boosts Sentinel threat.
3. Deep Gash damage multiplier on encounters needs to be fixed, and Insitgators/Destroyers need buffs later in the paths where sentinels cannot get to them.
GWF is my main and I pvp a ton. Being overpowered is fun for a little while, but I care about balance.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I love your last sentence~ They should just remove powerful challenge and threatening rush completely from the game. They should also decrease the student of the sword to max 5%, and deep gash to max 5%. Or just change it to 25-50% threat for both.
^^THIS..
As a gwf i totally agree this charge ability must go from gwfs list at least in pvp. The only chanse most classes have against good senti pvp buildt players are to create a gap with breathting space between them and the gwf and how is that possible with endless charging that does more then decent dam. Its this ability to negate kiting that makes gwfs a pain to face in pvp even for other good kiting players.
But aside from that regeneration need to be capped in pvp as it is now both tr gwfs dc and hr ability to either get away or pop invulerability makes it far to effective. Gf only get if 1-1 but not if focused and cw hardly get any benifit if focused.
Attacking from stealth and perma hide abilities are also more a joke in pvp then anything else.
Fixing above things would make pvp better for alot of players imho..
I have nothing more to add.
Threatening Rush animation cancel existed pre-module 2. Why do you think people got so frustrated about it after module 2? It's because the package of GWF's abilities is so different than GFs, that an at-will making him stick to you (combined with Sprint+Unstoppable) is over the top.
Threatening rush works the same way since module 1, but the specific class shouldn't have access to spammable gap-closers. If they are to fix an entire at-will that exists since day 1, I'd be happy to accept it. The essence of what's being discussed here is that GWFs have a huge advantage right now since they combine tankiness with burst, while being able to stick to the target. Meanwhile they have at least 2-3 'get-out-of-jail' cards that lets you almost ignore incoming damage on top of the defensive setup.
If you'd ask me, I'd answer that a class with all those features shouldn't be able to dish out more damage than a Prot GF. However they do.
And yes, there aren't only Sent-Regen fighters out there, but most certainly all GWFs that I have seen in PvP play exactly like one. This is what happens when you can go tank and your gear/artifacts/enchants allow you to reach 30% DR reduction with 30% Crit chance and superhuman Def/Defl and Regen.
Sorry but, D&D fighters share the skills. Weapon master's strike + Threatening rush & Frontline surge + Flourish. It is perfectly canon, anything else would alter the fighters in a way, not even WotC would give their permission for the class anymore.
I agree that the sentinel spec is for people who need a crutch to carry them through the game.
But why do people insist to go 1on1 against tanks? Is it recklessnes or stupidity? I wonder which part of the words "Tank spec" these people fail to realize.
I am a destroyer GWF, i do not have deflection or superb defense etc. I need threatening rush, 4 of 4 combos require it. If i cannot control my target i am dead meat.
There are good dps feats in Sentinel tree but this isn't one of them.
Do you think I *want* to go 1v1 vs the tank GWF that hits huge? no. I want to be able to keep my range while he's in the mix up of melee and shoot him. When the GWF picks a target, it doesn't matter how many others are on him. No CC due to unstoppable, so all that happens is the target gets hammered unless they fight back. I'm forced to 1v1 against the GWF because I can't get away. If I kite away from the group (which is hard to do, due to tr) then I'm alone dealing with the tanky DPS. If I don't, then the GWF generally ignores the group to focus on the target.
I had this happen to me last night in a couple of PVP matches. The GWF would target me (as the HR) and chase me down. Others would hit on him, so it was 3v1, but since he was in unstoppable, there wasn't anything stopping the tr to keep glued to me, which made it equal to 1v1. Yes, when unstoppable was down, we could stop him. However, the regen was insane on that one, which dragged fights out. A lot. I realize there are other specs to GWF. Those specs fall in line with what everyone else can do. It's the one spec that the majority play due to what it does, that is creating the poor situation.
Not just useful mate, they have gone too far with it and in pvp, you will struggle to win against a team that has one or more GWF if you don't have one on your own team. The amount of damage they take while still being able to stunlock and kill people is ridiculous with their titan gear and rings of health. No other class has this ability to take so much damage while still being able to deal it out at such a level. Its ridiculous. If they want them to be so tough and still do damage then thats great, but the stunlock needs to be looked at. Problem is all these abilities are also used in PVE so i cant see any way to do it. Ill just suck it up, but please don't insult this forum by saying GWF is balanced.
Can't accept this as an excuse, sorry. It may be the basis of design, but unfortunately it's an entirely different game. Don't get me wrong, I love GWFs, and I have one specced exactly as the thing I am asking to be nerfed. It's so darn unfair to play that I have shelved him because it just felt wrong. I understand where you are coming from, and I wouldn't want to see GWF's effectiveness in PvE hindered because of Domination PvP, but we can't just pretend that there's no elephant in the room.
Right now the only classes that can stand up to GWF's focus, are HRs...and that's because of buggy roots.
These are not tanks. A tank should have very good survivability and low damage to make up for the excess survivability. This is how MMOs balance things: squishy char=good DPS/tank char=low DPS.
So sent PvP GWFs are NOT tanks.
They are DPS Tanks, which should never ever be possible. They survive for large amounts of time, and also are very good killers. One should have to choose, and not have both.
Problem in this game is that there no PvP/PvE separation, so the devs could tweak certain specs without destroying the fun for some other people.
What do you think about arms warrior swapping their 2H wep with shield + 1H wep to activate some prot warr skills in 2k+ arena PvP? Oh sorry, I forgot that this game isnt WoW.
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
first of all, i think the most people are talking in here, played the game more casual. otherwise they would know that a GWF ist killable from one single person.
Its true that he hits hard, its true that he can tank much, but unkillable? with no chance to evade? srsly?
i played a lot premades in this game, and i played alot vs really good opponents, and after all i know, a gwf isnt that broken as it seems.
maybe he needs a little bit of a nerf, but it sounds like u want to nerf the gwf to death, as it was in open beta times.
The biggest fail on the GWF is that most of the time people are failing against him and then cry after.
nothing more to say
this game is about 20% pvp.. and killing a class in response to pvp issues is not a successful way forward for this game.. GWF still struggles in pve.. 90% of the population still cant get a decent CN party.
I know people are complaining about threatening rush and deep gash the most.. IF these 2 things are nerfed in response to pvp... the class will still need a MAJOR buff in other areas to compensate or the class with again be completely dead in pve.. I agree sentinel gwf are OP.. but so are TRs...
to highlight this a very prominent sentinel GWF lost 1v1 vs a prominent TR this week.. what does that tell you? sentinel GWFs are not the only issue In pvp.. and if they are nerfed alone... well that will leave the TRs to completely dominate..
I also play a pve GWF.. if deep gash and threatening rush are nerfed with no other buffs... that's the end of the game for me as my toon will be worthless again..
Why don't you suggest to take away GWF's "unstoppable" and give them 2x stamina bar to compensate?
u are serious? u want to take double sprint into a gwf? u know sprints grants no immunity like dodge or something else. and take him unstoppable away? i think u wanna troll that community
1) Threat rush must be fixed. Spamming it is most likely not WAI, just as animation cut was not WAI for WMS. And that's all
2) Sentinels are not the only GWF types, and IV sentinel is not the only build. You guys keep talking about "GWFs", which means you don't even know the class and the different possible builds. Like, for example, destroyer GWFs or hybrids.
3) GWFs are the only class that DOES NOT have a immunity move. Any other class have something that makes them immune to damage for a period of time. Some classes (TRs) have more than one. GWFs are a melee class that has to eat all the damage coming from, usually, multiple targets. When they go unstoppable after eating damage, they still take some damage. That's the reason why they have bravery, unstoppable and sprint to colose the gaps fast.
I remember not so long ago, a TR made a thread whining about how OP the GWFs are now. In the end, his complaint turned into "before module 2 i was able to kite forever a GWF, now i can't".
- Trs can go stealth, highest spike damage of all classes, ITC invulnerability, dodge roll immunitys. TRs who know how to use their class, can leave very few seconds of vulnerability going from stealth to ITC to dodge roll immunity.
- CWs can do very high DPS, use their unavoidable, high damage daily (ice knife) often, repel, cc from range, attack from higher ground and use 3 teleport immunity moves when reached.
- DCs can heal, use protection spells like astral shield, go tanky and use shift immunity moves
- GFs are tanky and can avoid damage through blocking with their shield. Also, they can double the damage on one target and then chain-prone the target
- HRs can root the enemy a lot, and root goes through unstoppable. Can DPS from distance and have lots of mobility and dodge immunity moves.
Now, if in all this, you think threat rush in overpowered and must be removed, may be you don't know how to build your class correctly to create sinergies between the different abilities you have.
Last, this is a Group PvP game.
Different strenghts and different abilities, along with knowledge of the battlefield, can be used in an action mmorpg during combat.
If you think that you must be able to facetank every enemy, or that you should have a power to counter every move of your enemy, you're wrong.
GWFs have no power to, for example, counter a permastealth whisperknife DPSing them from stealth. The counter is: experience. You fight a lot, you learn how to spot them by using your sprint and mobility and experience. You are able to guess where they hide, and eventually hunt them down. And it's not thanks to threat rush (which must have a target to activate. And a stealthed TR can't be targeted) or unstoppable.
Learn to make good use of the "action" part of the combat.
GWFs can catch you. You can't kite them forever. Accept it. No matter how much you complain, you've to learn to fight them. Learn how to make them waste their prone powers, learn to position yourself if you're a ranged class and use the battlefield at your advantage. I'm able, as a GWF, often, to kite enemies just fooling them using the columns in the Hotenow map. Or get an enemy who's chasing you just by making an ambush, waiting for him, hiding behind a corner.
Action means you do not just rely on your powers to win in combat.
Another example: i read many complaints like "we were 5 ppl shooting this one sentinel, and he wouldn't go down!!!!!"
Now, what i see on the battlefield: half assed damage, directed at the sentinel tank while he's standing, allowing him to go unstoppable more, encounters used on him while in unstoppable.
How it should be done: CW cc him, GF or GWF prone him, then all DPS him as fast as they can, prone again if you can, DPS again. If he goes unstoppable, avoid, run to team mates to mess up his aim so that he can't focus on 1 target. Since you've to aim in this game, it's easy to run in a group of players and mess up the enemy aim. Good DCs do that a lot.
You guys are too focused on "oh my god, GWFs can rush at me", and forget about all the rest.
Try playing top tier PVP.. TR is still the king.. so gtfo GWF.. there is still a better class for top tier pvp