Yeah, that's the point, in this game, leveling to 60 takes about 2-7 days depends of your game time (24-30 hours tops) changing race should never be allowed, this is DnD, you dont stop being a dwarf to become an elf because you're tired of being awesome and want to become a vegan hipster, i can understand the deity change, i can even understand the rerolling in terms of gameplay (not in terms of roleplaying though) but race change should never be allowed
We get it you don't like elves. However I see no problem with a service like this. You are right that leveling in this game does not take very long but that isn't the point. Some people have been playing characters for a long time and it isn't about just leveling for a few days. It is all the time invested in the character and now you want something different. Sure you may think it isn't D&D to just want a race change and if we are going by pen and paper rule okay you have an argument but the problem is this isn't pen an paper. This is an MMO where options and change are a good thing.
So you decided to attack some spelling error to don't have to deal with the contain and when you did you didn't have the brain to can answer it.
So your saying it is only the class that defines the character? Then why even bother picking a race/rolling stats/creating a background/choosing a deity? Isn't all of that plus class part of the character? Or put another way-What if all I want to do is change my class but keep everything else the same? Why should I have go through all of that leveling nonsense again? Just let me change my class and go over to the AH/Market and buy the gear I need for my new class that is already at 60th level. After all I only want change one thing so he is still basically the same character.
That is a hypothetical question as I would never condone this being allowed. After all what will happen is most people will find the armour they have doesn't allow for the perfect min/max scores they are going for with all of those changes and go buy the stuff they want for that "perfect" character. Also all that allowing for willy nilly race/stat changes will lead to is; "If you don't have an Elf CW with 26 Int/Dwarf GWF with 26 Con/Halfling TR with 26 Dex your a useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and can't play with us" I have seen this before and the MMO culture has only gotten worse since then. Then you get nothing but cookie cutter characters running around which is what so many people are crying about already and goes against all of the calls for more customization.
Your argument is irrelevant as that is already the case with some people. Some people believe you must have a specific race/class combo to do your best. A race change option would not make that worse. A class change shouldn't be allowed because it allows you to level in a playstyle you are great at and can grind the levels faster with than what you would be playing at end game. That is the reason class change shouldn't be allowed. However most racials really are irrelevant though in some areas you can get a slight edge with them.
We already have people running around with cookie cutter stats/races. As it stands now this game is no different than any other mmo where some selections may gimp you. Stats are the one thing if you aren't paying attention can screw you up though honestly at selection it's hard to go wrong when you roll as long as your main attributes are decently proportionate. What it allows is someone tired of playing a specific race to change that up. Also as far as perfect min/maxing is concerned let's be real for a second. This would allow those that are more concerned with that to do better even if only slightly which isn't a bad thing. However those people are the ones that would have thought it all out beforehand to be quite frank.
So you decided to attack some spelling error to don't have to deal with the contain and when you did you didn't have the brain to can answer it.
Why should the experienced min/maxer be allowed to do better than the novice purely based on stats? If your that experienced your skill should overcome any deficit you may have in a stat category. Beat a novice because because you have the experience, fine, no problem with that. Beat the novice because you min/maxed your character with endless racial/stat tweaks, that is not good.
What you are saying is that only class constitutes the character, nothing else?
Yes I dislike min/maxers. I did not allow that as a DM, nor did it as player, and just because we are playing with electrons instead of ink doesn't change that or the spirit of the game.
I'm against this in all MMORPGs. This takes away from the entire spirit of a RPG in that we make choices that matter for our characters.
Sarcasm on
1. This is not an RPG as you will be told time again.
2. This is not D&D as you will be told time again.
3. This is a video game as you will be told time again.
4. Forget this is based on a pen and paper game as you will be told time again.
Sarcasm off
Why should the experienced min/maxer be allowed to do better than the novice purely based on stats? If your that experienced your skill should overcome any deficit you may have in a stat category. Beat a novice because because you have the experience, fine, no problem with that. Beat the novice because you min/maxed your character with endless racial/stat tweaks, that is not good.
What you are saying is that only class constitutes the character, nothing else?
Did I ever say that once, no. Again you are making an argument that makes no sense. An experienced min/maxer wouldn't make the mistake of subpar stats to begin with. They would also choose which racial combo best suits their ideal needs for the class. That is why yes stats are going to make a difference and someone brand new to the genre is going to be doing less dps or healing or take your pick here. It is the nature of the game. What it would allow is for those people who are new to it to get back that little edge they didn't know existed in the game to begin with. Again it is only slight differences unless you are just a complete idiot and go all strength on a CW for example. I can't imagine even new players doing that but the few points at the beginning do make a difference even if only a small one.
I'm against this in all MMORPGs. This takes away from the entire spirit of a RPG in that we make choices that matter for our characters.
Frankly I have to disagree. This isn't just an RPG and let's be honest for years in a lot of RPG video games you haven't really had that much choice in character customization. It is only recently (last 10 years roughly) when designers thought of this as a good thing outside of say D&D titles mostly (there are exceptions of course). I mean the characters look and class per se were already picked for you pretty much. You just picked them up along the way on your adventure.
There are already tokens that allow you to change your stats and you look after the fact just not race. How is that so much different?
So you decided to attack some spelling error to don't have to deal with the contain and when you did you didn't have the brain to can answer it.
0
lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
It would be a zen store item that you could purchase. Thus making it available to f2p members as well as those that want to support the game. So that argument is invalid by saying it will give people an edge in the game since everyone will be able to do it, I have no right to say who can spend on what.
Second I think if people want to spend money on something let them doesn't bother me one bit. Also this would help me since my drow cleric actually debuffs my own party due to racial bonus. If this available I could change her race till it was patched but now I am stuck playing a class that suppose to be supportive role into hurting the party because a bug that may or may not be fix in some time in the future.
For people who don't agree with race change and ability scores reset because of role-playing reason, please try thinking about "reincarnation". Going through reincarnation and then have your race and ability scores changed makes sense.
There is no reason not to do this, what so ever. Its a money making idea that generates revenue and makes players happy. Win Win. I am sure they will get around to adding this feature, I expect it to be at a premium price.
Sarcasm on
1. This is not an RPG as you will be told time again.
2. This is not D&D as you will be told time again.
3. This is a video game as you will be told time again.
4. Forget this is based on a pen and paper game as you will be told time again.
Sarcasm off
Yep, it's a video game thos we all chose to play. We chose to play it because it's D&D. If you want to play a game where you can switch your class/race/gender at any time why not play a game that has that as part of the game rules instead of trying to change the rules for the game you are playing?
I am sure they will get around to adding this feature, I expect it to be at a premium price.
Based on what exactly? The ability to change race, gender, or class in STO? Because you cant, not after several years and countless requests. Even in CO, Cryptic's least restrictive game. A game, for the most part without race or class, still gender locks you. And there has not been one peep of a change to this. Even after player requests over several years.
So, i'm curious. Considering this, extensive, track record of ignoring these topics. Why is you feel they will actually add it, on any level?
I suppose this boils down to what people define as a character. It seems for most people only class defines the character. For me your character is defined by the class plus your race and stats, change anyone of those and you have a new character in my opinion. This is apart from any RP reasons. RP wise I could see many story lines to allow you to change any ONE of them ONCE. The way I see it you want a new character that is already fully geared and at 60th level without having to do anything to get it other than forking over a few ducats.
Why not just have a Zen Market category of pre-made 60th level characters then? Make all of it purchasable in the Zen Market.
Step 1. Buy your 60th level class
Step 2. Buy your race
Step 3. Buy your stats
Step 4. Buy your gear
It's win/win, players get exactly what they want, and it produces revenue for the company. Right?
Just for the record it's not about what people spend their money on. I don't care if somebody wants spend enough money to buy every mount/companion/outfit/health stone there is. For me it's about people wanting to take the easy way out and trying to take the game even further away from it's basic core. Rather than adapting to the game they want the game to adapt to them. To much of the D&D game has already been comprised in order to port this over into the MMO world, more than is necessary in my opinion
I suppose this boils down to what people define as a character. It seems for most people only class defines the character. For me your character is defined by the class plus your race and stats, change anyone of those and you have a new character in my opinion. This is apart from any RP reasons. RP wise I could see many story lines to allow you to change any ONE of them ONCE. The way I see it you want a new character that is already fully geared and at 60th level without having to do anything to get it other than forking over a few ducats.
Why not just have a Zen Market category of pre-made 60th level characters then? Make all of it purchasable in the Zen Market.
Step 1. Buy your 60th level class
Step 2. Buy your race
Step 3. Buy your stats
Step 4. Buy your gear
It's win/win, players get exactly what they want, and it produces revenue for the company. Right?
Just for the record it's not about what people spend their money on. I don't care if somebody wants spend enough money to buy every mount/companion/outfit/health stone there is. For me it's about people wanting to take the easy way out and trying to take the game even further away from it's basic core. Rather than adapting to the game they want the game to adapt to them. To much of the D&D game has already been comprised in order to port this over into the MMO world, more than is necessary in my opinion
I can't believe you just compared an ability stat reroll to buying a toon. That is so over the top hyperbole, I literally had my jaw hanging open for a second.
What it's about is being able to fix your mistakes with a build in a video game. A video game that has been constantly evolving with tweaks to powers, stats, etc.
Being able to change these things lets players keep the toon that they have leveled, geared, and had many hours of fun with current rather than having to flush that toon down the toilet when the devs change something.
Being able to change these things keeps people involved with their toon, which keeps them involved with the game, which keeps them paying.
Being against such a simple common sense idea and comparing it to buying a toon shows that you have no experience with mmo's, video games, or what most players like.
Being able to make changes to your character because the Devs changed things is something entirely different. If the Devs make changes to the way a stat(racial/rolled/gear/etc.) works then by all means people should be allowed to change their stats, without charge by the way. I am arguing against voluntarily purchased combined race and stat changes.
Being able to make changes to your character because the Devs changed things is something entirely different. If the Devs make changes to the way a stat(racial/rolled/gear/etc.) works then by all means people should be allowed to change their stats, without charge by the way. I am arguing against voluntarily purchased combined racial and stat changes.
And if they change a racial bonus? or dramatically tinker? You know it's possible. And before they can give them away they'd have to code them. And how do you pay for dev time to code something in a f2p mmo? You sell it.
Obviously if the Devs change race specs then the players should be allowed adjust to those changes as well. Which by the way I did say in my previous post in the parenthesis. You pay for the Dev time buy selling Health Stones/Dyes/Mounts/Companions/Outfits/Etc.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
charononus makes a good point that is originally why i want to change my because when i first played the game i created a character without knowing exactly what i was doing since when you roll your stats it doesn't tell you what you are doing or what they are for. Now after countless patches and changes i would like to fix my character. Now i am sure when i started playing this game it said no where in the rules of the game that you could not change your race. It may go against DnD rules but i have never played DnD nor read any of the books and i know a lot of people that haven't. You must know this is a video game and first and foremost a video game that needs to make a profit.
if you think to much has been compromised just go back to your old game that is the beauty of a free to play game, but people have to pay to play for the game to survive. Cryptic is in business to make money not to portray the most accurate picture of a DnD game. I believe this is a good way for them to make some finances while providing a service. I don't see how anyone should be hurt by this idea since it is not effecting any of your characters or gameplay. Btw comparing it to buying a lvl 60 is out of proportion. Now i am not saying it's going to be added but i would like to see something added either account bound items or race changes.
0
lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
then what about the DC glitch with a drow racial bonus debuffing my own team (faerie fire). This was an unforeseen problem that i didn't realize till recently thus making my cleric unusable due to the racial bonus. Shoudl i be stuck with my race due to a bug they haven't fix in who knows how long or should they offer a race change so i can use my character i spent time gearing?
Bugs are different than intentional changes. Just about every character has suffered from a bug at one time or another. Bugs are the nature of the business, there is no getting around that. Not that anyone should be pleased about that. What is the solution though? Allow people to change things every time a bug is found, and to what extent, and for what length of time that the bug exists? That would be rather chaotic I think, but there is no solution there that would make everybody happy. It is unfortunate that your character suffers from the issue. Again though this different than voluntarily changing, all things being equal and bug free.
Bugs are different than intentional changes. Just about every character has suffered from a bug at one time or another. Bugs are the nature of the business, there is no getting around that. Not that anyone should be pleased about that. What is the solution though? Allow people to change things every time a bug is found, and to what extent, and for what length of time that the bug exists? That would be rather chaotic I think, but there is no solution there that would make everybody happy. It is unfortunate that your character suffers from the issue. Again though this different than voluntarily changing, all things being equal and bug free.
Here's the thing give people the option to buy a race change token, and they can decide for themselves if the bug they discovered is bad enough to immediately change. Right now if it's that bad it's shelve the toon and in some cases leave the game which hurts everyone. Them buying a change in no way will harm you. It can't. It can only give money to the company keeping the doors open, keep people playing (people to group with) and it doesn't make you change your race if you don't want to.
This is a case of role players getting upset that we play the game wrong because we play it as a video game not as serious business.
This was mentioned few times, but seems not enough to be really considered by dev team.
I made a hunter ranger, im almost 20 lv weaponsmith ready to craft weapon, already got really good items on him.
But there is one problem - all items are bound.
After 2-3 weeks of playing him i noticed i could spend my starting stats a little better, but cant do anything right now without wasting investment into this character.
I suggest to put a race/starting stats token in zen shop (for like 100-300 zen?). That way normal character respec wouldnt need any changes. I believe many players are waiting for something like this.
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stonebloodMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited January 2014
I think this should be included in a full respec (token) not a separate token.
I would totally support this and be one of the first people to buy that token, no matter the cost. To change race is something I don't like to see, but for the gender change and re-roll of your initial/starting ability points, YES! Ever since I hit 60 on my TR i have regret the stats roll i did while creating this character, and there's been no way for me to influence it. Atleast not without creating a totally new character, which is NOT a solution to most people who have unlocked things and progressed really far in this game already. And since almost everything is bound nowadays, that makes things worse. You would have to get all the same gear again and start grinding those dailys -.-. With the ability to change your characters looks, feats, powers and some of the ability points I definitely think this is something they should implement soon. It's been discussed and suggested for a really long time..
Neverwinter addict since open-BETA! What's your drug? Spoon? There is no spoon.
Old member of Team Fencebane (R.I.P)
- One of the 5 core founders.
^ I agree. Probably race change is too much, but initial stats reroll should be included in character respec or even separate token would be really awesome.
Also guys u didnt notice, when you create character and u check stats, tooltip doesnt says what are they doing- example WIS for hunter ranger -"measure common sense,perception,self-discipline and empathy", how could i know it increase critical chance?. The only information they provide is "its you primary and secondary atribute". To actually see what stats are giving to your class you have to finish creating this character and check stats ingame. Its really easy to make a mistake, especially same stats give different bonuses to different classes. Really confusing.
So some people are fine with changing everything else about your character, including sex, but not a race change? What is even going on here. They could just roll all that stuff into one package. Do other MMO's have issues adding a race change option, assuming they are free to play?
So I know there was an old thread about the subject and I don't want to bring a old thread back to life. But why haven't they inputed a reroll or race change token. Most mmos have this as an option. I would definitely pay money for this as well so I believe it would be a great way for cryptic to make some money and offer a service. I don't know how hard it would be to do but they could just have you start your character like when you created him. Race, rolls, names, and background you would just have to take out the class selection part or just lock it so it couldn't be change. A retraining token would be nice as we'll because if you choose human you may need to change the stats or just give the three additional points.
So I know they said they were looking into this but I haven't heard anything yet. What do you guys think? I know they are busy with content but I would love to see this happen.
I'm all for this, not that I'd need it myself but it's something that isn't (or shouldn't be) negative for anyone, in any way; The ones who needs it and are willing to pay for it will become happy, and the ones who don't really should not care one way or the other. Anyone who is vehemently against this (as I seemed to notice eyeing through the posts) probably needs to take a step back and reevaluate their gaming habits.
the last official word from a dev is they would like to offer this, but how or when or if this will actually happen is unknown.
That is not completely accurate. The dev comment you are referring too, was in a topic about initial stat rolls. There was nothing said, or implied, about race changes.
Considering THIS topic, and its title, is about both. Your comment is a little misleading.
Comments
We get it you don't like elves. However I see no problem with a service like this. You are right that leveling in this game does not take very long but that isn't the point. Some people have been playing characters for a long time and it isn't about just leveling for a few days. It is all the time invested in the character and now you want something different. Sure you may think it isn't D&D to just want a race change and if we are going by pen and paper rule okay you have an argument but the problem is this isn't pen an paper. This is an MMO where options and change are a good thing.
Your argument is irrelevant as that is already the case with some people. Some people believe you must have a specific race/class combo to do your best. A race change option would not make that worse. A class change shouldn't be allowed because it allows you to level in a playstyle you are great at and can grind the levels faster with than what you would be playing at end game. That is the reason class change shouldn't be allowed. However most racials really are irrelevant though in some areas you can get a slight edge with them.
We already have people running around with cookie cutter stats/races. As it stands now this game is no different than any other mmo where some selections may gimp you. Stats are the one thing if you aren't paying attention can screw you up though honestly at selection it's hard to go wrong when you roll as long as your main attributes are decently proportionate. What it allows is someone tired of playing a specific race to change that up. Also as far as perfect min/maxing is concerned let's be real for a second. This would allow those that are more concerned with that to do better even if only slightly which isn't a bad thing. However those people are the ones that would have thought it all out beforehand to be quite frank.
What you are saying is that only class constitutes the character, nothing else?
Yes I dislike min/maxers. I did not allow that as a DM, nor did it as player, and just because we are playing with electrons instead of ink doesn't change that or the spirit of the game.
1. This is not an RPG as you will be told time again.
2. This is not D&D as you will be told time again.
3. This is a video game as you will be told time again.
4. Forget this is based on a pen and paper game as you will be told time again.
Sarcasm off
Did I ever say that once, no. Again you are making an argument that makes no sense. An experienced min/maxer wouldn't make the mistake of subpar stats to begin with. They would also choose which racial combo best suits their ideal needs for the class. That is why yes stats are going to make a difference and someone brand new to the genre is going to be doing less dps or healing or take your pick here. It is the nature of the game. What it would allow is for those people who are new to it to get back that little edge they didn't know existed in the game to begin with. Again it is only slight differences unless you are just a complete idiot and go all strength on a CW for example. I can't imagine even new players doing that but the few points at the beginning do make a difference even if only a small one.
Frankly I have to disagree. This isn't just an RPG and let's be honest for years in a lot of RPG video games you haven't really had that much choice in character customization. It is only recently (last 10 years roughly) when designers thought of this as a good thing outside of say D&D titles mostly (there are exceptions of course). I mean the characters look and class per se were already picked for you pretty much. You just picked them up along the way on your adventure.
There are already tokens that allow you to change your stats and you look after the fact just not race. How is that so much different?
Second I think if people want to spend money on something let them doesn't bother me one bit. Also this would help me since my drow cleric actually debuffs my own party due to racial bonus. If this available I could change her race till it was patched but now I am stuck playing a class that suppose to be supportive role into hurting the party because a bug that may or may not be fix in some time in the future.
Yep, it's a video game thos we all chose to play. We chose to play it because it's D&D. If you want to play a game where you can switch your class/race/gender at any time why not play a game that has that as part of the game rules instead of trying to change the rules for the game you are playing?
Based on what exactly? The ability to change race, gender, or class in STO? Because you cant, not after several years and countless requests. Even in CO, Cryptic's least restrictive game. A game, for the most part without race or class, still gender locks you. And there has not been one peep of a change to this. Even after player requests over several years.
So, i'm curious. Considering this, extensive, track record of ignoring these topics. Why is you feel they will actually add it, on any level?
Why not just have a Zen Market category of pre-made 60th level characters then? Make all of it purchasable in the Zen Market.
Step 1. Buy your 60th level class
Step 2. Buy your race
Step 3. Buy your stats
Step 4. Buy your gear
It's win/win, players get exactly what they want, and it produces revenue for the company. Right?
Just for the record it's not about what people spend their money on. I don't care if somebody wants spend enough money to buy every mount/companion/outfit/health stone there is. For me it's about people wanting to take the easy way out and trying to take the game even further away from it's basic core. Rather than adapting to the game they want the game to adapt to them. To much of the D&D game has already been comprised in order to port this over into the MMO world, more than is necessary in my opinion
What it's about is being able to fix your mistakes with a build in a video game. A video game that has been constantly evolving with tweaks to powers, stats, etc.
Being able to change these things lets players keep the toon that they have leveled, geared, and had many hours of fun with current rather than having to flush that toon down the toilet when the devs change something.
Being able to change these things keeps people involved with their toon, which keeps them involved with the game, which keeps them paying.
Being against such a simple common sense idea and comparing it to buying a toon shows that you have no experience with mmo's, video games, or what most players like.
if you think to much has been compromised just go back to your old game that is the beauty of a free to play game, but people have to pay to play for the game to survive. Cryptic is in business to make money not to portray the most accurate picture of a DnD game. I believe this is a good way for them to make some finances while providing a service. I don't see how anyone should be hurt by this idea since it is not effecting any of your characters or gameplay. Btw comparing it to buying a lvl 60 is out of proportion. Now i am not saying it's going to be added but i would like to see something added either account bound items or race changes.
This is a case of role players getting upset that we play the game wrong because we play it as a video game not as serious business.
I made a hunter ranger, im almost 20 lv weaponsmith ready to craft weapon, already got really good items on him.
But there is one problem - all items are bound.
After 2-3 weeks of playing him i noticed i could spend my starting stats a little better, but cant do anything right now without wasting investment into this character.
I suggest to put a race/starting stats token in zen shop (for like 100-300 zen?). That way normal character respec wouldnt need any changes. I believe many players are waiting for something like this.
Spoon? There is no spoon.
Old member of Team Fencebane (R.I.P)
- One of the 5 core founders.
Also guys u didnt notice, when you create character and u check stats, tooltip doesnt says what are they doing- example WIS for hunter ranger -"measure common sense,perception,self-discipline and empathy", how could i know it increase critical chance?. The only information they provide is "its you primary and secondary atribute". To actually see what stats are giving to your class you have to finish creating this character and check stats ingame. Its really easy to make a mistake, especially same stats give different bonuses to different classes. Really confusing.
I'm all for this, not that I'd need it myself but it's something that isn't (or shouldn't be) negative for anyone, in any way; The ones who needs it and are willing to pay for it will become happy, and the ones who don't really should not care one way or the other. Anyone who is vehemently against this (as I seemed to notice eyeing through the posts) probably needs to take a step back and reevaluate their gaming habits.
That is not completely accurate. The dev comment you are referring too, was in a topic about initial stat rolls. There was nothing said, or implied, about race changes.
Considering THIS topic, and its title, is about both. Your comment is a little misleading.
Is there still no ability score respecting when using re-spec tokens?
When are they going to implement that because its kinda annoying.