The basic issue here isn't Cryptic's choice in stat distribution - every class has sets that have less than desirable stat distribution (look how many threads there are complaining about Crytpic putting lifesteal on DC sets). The main issue here is that the OP has chosen to equip 2 sets that both heavily stack armor pen. Too much armor Pen on the Royal Guard set? Use the Grand Warden set. Cryptic is not going to change gear to suit your build, especially as many people like having a lot of armor Pen for those times when we PvP. So in this case I'd say give up trying to get the armor changed, change your build.
I agree that Armor Penetration is a problem, where having too much is a detriment to other statistics.
I think that a better solution would be to change the way that Armor Penetration works as a stat, so that having too much of the stat provides a benefit, or bonus Armor Penetration over the defense value of a target is converted to a bonus to Power instead... just something that makes having too much Armor Penetration less of an issue.
Another thought that came to my mind is that bonuses to ignored resistances from Strength could add damage on target's without any defense value, putting them in to negative values for damage calculations. This also helps Armor Penetration stacking over ~1900 value.
At this point, I'm less concerned with the stats and more perturbed that the community in general doesn't seem to even understand the problem. Overstacking crit on a TR is not the same because even though crit has DR, you're still getting something out of having more crit. Your crit chance still goes up. Overstacking armor pen does literally nothing.
I understand the problem, but I don't think that trying to balance gear around the stat is the proper course. I think that balancing the stat itself in a different way is a better idea because, currently, Armor Penetration is extremely limiting.
I managed to lower my ArP down to provide a 24% reduction including Str and continued to observe my damage, especially on Aimed Shot.
It seemed that while I had 24% my damage, especially my max damage, went down. So I swapped some gear and got back to a 26% reduction and saw an immediate improvement in DPS.
This makes me think there is something wrong here; either our ArP from Str is not applying or they have messed with the DR of monsters in t2 dungeons.
With these observations I'll be sticking with my higher than required ArP.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
What do you mean by "observe" your damage and what do you mean by "saw an immediate improvement"? Combat parser recorded a difference between 24% and 26% armor penetration?
There are a few mobs that can have higher than 24% damage reduction. If that's not what you're talking about, test it on test dummies and see if there is a difference between the ratio of dmg(base dmg) with the two different setups.
I haven't sat down and down detailed testing, its an observation however. Jumping from rarely capping 20k with an Aimed Shot crit to regularly over and approaching 30k with the gear change makes me twitchy.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The amount of ignorance in this thread is astonishing.
Anyways, another display of cryptic's incredible balancing effort in this game. Yes, I know most of you l o v e having ~30% ARP, so would I, if I were to roll a HR. But I'd build my HR for PVP > PVE. If my PVE-exclusive CW would experience the aforementioned overcapping of ARP, I'd whack my head against a wall. Cause - believe it or not - there are people trying to min/max in this game.
Well I need to find something that I can see ArP affect that isn't going to kill me while I'm naked as well.
At least I learnt Thorn Ward gives an effective 20% damage bonus and Commanding Shot 14%, and together they give 22%....
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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sirjestoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 176Bounty Hunter
edited December 2013
If someone had a crystal ball, they may see a situation down the road where the level cap is increased to 80 and boss enemies at these levels have an armor rating of 30%+ for example........
At that time this discussion would be pointless obviously.
If someone had a crystal ball, they may see a situation down the road where the level cap is increased to 80 and boss enemies at these levels have an armor rating of 30%+ for example........
At that time this discussion would be pointless obviously.
I see what you are saying but at that time Armor Penetration will still be a limiting statistic because it will still have values above a certain amount that are useless in PvE.
It remains arguable that the Royal Guard set is our best set, similarly Dread Legion. Certainly the Crit focussed sets are pefectly viable and building to 24% ArP is still relatively easy.
Min/Max play is about minimising weakness and maximising strengths. Its entirely possible that it is better to maximise Crit and still hit that 24% giving up the relatively weak advantage of faster cooldown or an unreliable control effect for a so-so damage boost is actually going to produce an overall better build.
Currently I'm missing the head for Royal Guard and I've got the Armor for Grand Warden. I'll continue to work on completing both sets and do more testing, but the simple truth is for my Archery spec I'm only really drawn to Royal Guard atm for its other stats over the Grand Warden, so I might yet change my stance. But the discovery of the debuff on Thorn Ward gives me a bit more motivation to go with Royal, especially if I end up with Terror over Vorpal. That's a lot of potential bonus damage if I can keep Thorn Ward up regularly.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I agree that Armor Penetration is a problem, where having too much is a detriment to other statistics.
I think that a better solution would be to change the way that Armor Penetration works as a stat, so that having too much of the stat provides a benefit, or bonus Armor Penetration over the defense value of a target is converted to a bonus to Power instead... just something that makes having too much Armor Penetration less of an issue.
On my Ranger I hit 26% ArP just from gear while trying to AVOID getting ArP which for PvE is an awful waste of potential stats.
So converting additional ArP over the max effective limit into Power would be useful....
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Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
I think that a better solution would be to change the way that Armor Penetration works as a stat, so that having too much of the stat provides a benefit, or bonus Armor Penetration over the defense value of a target is converted to a bonus to Power instead... just something that makes having too much Armor Penetration less of an issue.
Another thought that came to my mind is that bonuses to ignored resistances from Strength could add damage on target's without any defense value, putting them in to negative values for damage calculations. This also helps Armor Penetration stacking over ~1900 value.
I understand the problem, but I don't think that trying to balance gear around the stat is the proper course. I think that balancing the stat itself in a different way is a better idea because, currently, Armor Penetration is extremely limiting.
It seemed that while I had 24% my damage, especially my max damage, went down. So I swapped some gear and got back to a 26% reduction and saw an immediate improvement in DPS.
This makes me think there is something wrong here; either our ArP from Str is not applying or they have messed with the DR of monsters in t2 dungeons.
With these observations I'll be sticking with my higher than required ArP.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
There are a few mobs that can have higher than 24% damage reduction. If that's not what you're talking about, test it on test dummies and see if there is a difference between the ratio of dmg(base dmg) with the two different setups.
Observe.
I haven't sat down and down detailed testing, its an observation however. Jumping from rarely capping 20k with an Aimed Shot crit to regularly over and approaching 30k with the gear change makes me twitchy.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Anyways, another display of cryptic's incredible balancing effort in this game. Yes, I know most of you l o v e having ~30% ARP, so would I, if I were to roll a HR. But I'd build my HR for PVP > PVE. If my PVE-exclusive CW would experience the aforementioned overcapping of ARP, I'd whack my head against a wall. Cause - believe it or not - there are people trying to min/max in this game.
At least I learnt Thorn Ward gives an effective 20% damage bonus and Commanding Shot 14%, and together they give 22%....
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
At that time this discussion would be pointless obviously.
I see what you are saying but at that time Armor Penetration will still be a limiting statistic because it will still have values above a certain amount that are useless in PvE.
Min/Max play is about minimising weakness and maximising strengths. Its entirely possible that it is better to maximise Crit and still hit that 24% giving up the relatively weak advantage of faster cooldown or an unreliable control effect for a so-so damage boost is actually going to produce an overall better build.
Currently I'm missing the head for Royal Guard and I've got the Armor for Grand Warden. I'll continue to work on completing both sets and do more testing, but the simple truth is for my Archery spec I'm only really drawn to Royal Guard atm for its other stats over the Grand Warden, so I might yet change my stance. But the discovery of the debuff on Thorn Ward gives me a bit more motivation to go with Royal, especially if I end up with Terror over Vorpal. That's a lot of potential bonus damage if I can keep Thorn Ward up regularly.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
On my Ranger I hit 26% ArP just from gear while trying to AVOID getting ArP which for PvE is an awful waste of potential stats.
So converting additional ArP over the max effective limit into Power would be useful....