the problem is that cryt nerf some class and overpower other, on the end the pvp get ruined for one and wonderful for others, for HR's the last update make crit build useless so, u'll have a hard time killing hight defence mobs/chars.
So the thing is, creat all classes and play the overpowered one at moment, on actual case ply as TR or GWF or even GF.
GF plain sucks unless u like going a full bunker build that would never kill anything.
Hybrid/Dps build no longer works due to the Mod 2 change, and a Hybrid/Dps build GF is simply outclassed by sent GWF.
I have to disagree with the OP. More often than not these sort of issues appear because of the difference in GS. GWF's are one of the few classes that are very gear-centric as they do not have much utility skills. Meaning to say, if you don't have good gear as an Iron Vanguard Sent, it'll be hard to perform as well as what most people have been complaining about; which are well-geared Iron Vanguard Sents. GWF's are fine as they are.
What I find more disturbing is that you were expecting to win against a well-geared Sent as a new 60 HR. You can't really faceroll an iron tank with a glass cannon. If you know you can't win against a Sent, just contest the point with him and stay alive for as long as possible. Let your teammates concentrate on the other more controllable nodes if you are confident that you can stalemate a Sent on his point. PVP in this game isn't about getting the most kills, it's basically just earning more points from towers. So if you can't earn points from a tower because of some force of nature like Iron Vanguard Sents, just take it as it is. Contest, concentrate on others.
Omg that that cleric killed me at 200 range with break the spirit and searing light combo... no wait
Omg that cleric placed that dang circle on the ground and I couldn't kill himmm... oh wait the dc is eating dirt and flung to the other side of the map.... mn
OMG That cleric cast divine exaltation and became completely immune to all damage... oh nm it was only for 1 second, eating floor agin.
OMG That cleric cast Daunting light and blew me up... oh nm, It a long casting time and I cane easily dodge it nw...
Well I will just heal myself then, oh wait I was cc'd 20 thousand times in a row.....
now with artifacts and boons a sentinel gwf like the one i have is both unkillable and has insane dps and cc, with 2k regen i get 2.4k hp each tic(38klife) and i have 38% base deflect(that goes to 48% with buff) and at the same time i have 29%crit(goes to 39% with buff) and 140% crit severity, im critting for 9k-12k with encounters and i have 28% resistance ignored from armor pen and con.....other classes just cant be both this tanky and dps at the same time,there is no way a good gwf can lose a 1vs1 now
/begin sarcasm. God forbid a heavily armored killing machine built specifically to engage multiple targets in melee combat becomes difficult to outperform at its specific strong point. /end sarcasm.
Seriously though, fighters are made to fight and gwf 's are made to be able to engage and bring down targets quickly. Honestly, if you expect taking them done with anything other than magic to be easy (and even that's not easy because they have so many hit points and a high fort save) you have a misunderstanding of how much of the base game is structured. (Plus if you think gwf fighters are op, you should meet a pnp lvl 30 angelic avenger demigod devoted cleric: nearly invicible, flies, and rains holy fire down on the whole battalion to boot! Plus it comes back when it dies! Fun for the whole party!) Honestly, there aren't many classes that excel at 1v1 fighting other than the strikers. The fact the the fighter is one of them should come as a no brainer.
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I agree whole heartedly, anyone running a GWF (or for that matter ANY class) with 100,000,000 A.D. worth of gear and an 8hr. a day PvP habit SHOULD be wiping the floor with any given PuG that does not contain a similar player. And keep in mind that that WAS what you were getting creamed by. Not your average GWF that just happened to walk into a PvP match. Those don't fair well at all. My GWF, for instance, is a PvE toon played for AoE Dps. He would get slaughtered if I even brought him NEAR a PvP match. Just from the Halo effect. He would keel over dead before he even reached the first Marker. My Lvl60 Ranger would hand him his head on a platter. So would my Lvl60 CW, and either of my Rouges. Even the one that hasn't hit 60 yet. He would die of heart failure at the mere THOUGHT of facing my Lvl60 GF. I'll grant you he would pulp my DC (mostly because she is only Lvl25'ish).
In that case, the argument becomes one for a for skill based ranking system, and a matchmaker that accounts for gearscore.
I really dont have any trouble with GWFs, in fact, lately i've had alot of practice agaist GWFs so im happy to meet them because they think they can kill me.
Feel free to post your videos with you against one of the top GWFs in the game, 1 vs 1, so I can learn from you. To be clear, I kill A LOT of GWFs myself as a CW. However, tene GWFs especially with Fey Thistle/Briartwine are plain impossible. If they don't have tenes, usually I can kite one for 10 minutes, then in the end I tire, make a mistake, and die while the guy has just regen to 100% during the kiting. I have 14K GS (meh...) mostly r8s and perfect vorpal. I can go full squish for lots of ArP or get around 27.5K HP with 1800 ArP or so. The issue is that they will deflect a lot of your big attacks, regen through during the kiting and in the end get to you and burst you down because you don't regen as good even with 1200 of it.
However, what I'm most annoyed is that the CW starts the fight as the prey, and GWF on the chase as the predator. I'd suggest that you look at ET vs LS premade matches on YT, Gannicus' perspective. He is the cat chasing the little mouse, it's transparent...
Again... it's not about mediocre GWFs... it's about the good ones. I'm not even talking about the top guys.
now with artifacts and boons a sentinel gwf like the one i have is both unkillable and has insane dps and cc, with 2k regen i get 2.4k hp each tic(38klife) and i have 38% base deflect(that goes to 48% with buff) and at the same time i have 29%crit(goes to 39% with buff) and 140% crit severity, im critting for 9k-12k with encounters and i have 28% resistance ignored from armor pen and con.....other classes just cant be both this tanky and dps at the same time,there is no way a good gwf can lose a 1vs1 now
Indeed.
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dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
now with artifacts and boons a sentinel gwf like the one i have is both unkillable and has insane dps and cc, with 2k regen i get 2.4k hp each tic(38klife) and i have 38% base deflect(that goes to 48% with buff) and at the same time i have 29%crit(goes to 39% with buff) and 140% crit severity, im critting for 9k-12k with encounters and i have 28% resistance ignored from armor pen and con.....other classes just cant be both this tanky and dps at the same time,there is no way a good gwf can lose a 1vs1 now
the main thing why sent is so strong is that cryptic fd up game with 2 many cc removing glass cannons and forcing everybody to go tanky, not to be killed during 1 cc
remove most cc from pvp and the game would be much better
the problem is that cryt nerf some class and overpower other, on the end the pvp get ruined for one and wonderful for others, for HR's the last update make crit build useless so, u'll have a hard time killing hight defence mobs/chars.
So the thing is, creat all classes and play the overpowered one at moment, on actual case ply as TR or GWF or even GF.
the build i talked about was created post nerf of archery mastery.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Show me that, on video, 1 vs 1 (fully geared PvP GWF=tenes). Or it NEVER happened. I've tested a whole hour after PvP ended with BiS GWF, and there is no way to kill him, only if he stands there and does nothing. Also there is no specific Meatball spec Only a dumb GWF will stay to be proned by shard when the spell cast and effects are so **** obvious. If he is half good he will takedown the CW as he tried to cast the sluggish shard.
Also I thought your GWF is "immortal"?!?
Lol NO on is Immortal. And a FUlly geared Sent GWF does not = Tene's. Actually Tene's suck. and they suck big time. a video? Whisper Meldanen@meldan3n , He can givev you some points on how to kill a Sent GWF. Technique.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Lol NO on is Immortal. And a FUlly geared Sent GWF does not = Tene's. Actually Tene's suck. and they suck big time. a video? Whisper Meldanen@meldan3n , He can givev you some points on how to kill a Sent GWF. Technique.
Right.
Words are for nothing. Videos are proof. Actually Trace took the time and posted CW vs GWF - but even he came to the conclusion that tenes are too much. Against a CW, who has lower DR, tenes RULE. And we cannot get good DR in PvP without giving up on our precious HP radiants, which will be fail. Maybe with an epic/legendary artifact things might be a bit better, I know there's one with Defense on it.
All of you guys have Fey Thistle at least, and tenes will proc on us from simply hitting you, and no, we can't dodge our own hits.
So they are as good as ever against CWs.
Again: CWs, including me, can kill many GWFs. We can't kill tene GOOD GWFs. Average guys are no issue, you can just repel&kite them forever until you get a huge burst.
having a GWF myself, i cant really defend the GWF class. They are far from invunerable well maybe 1vs1 they are, but in group fights if you get some chain proning going on a GWF they will be helpless, however... this is the same for every other class.
everything is has its advantages and disadvantages, but i can agree that GWFs have the better advantages>disadvantages currently.
Do you GWFs even know that Deepgash procs more damage than the actual hit it comes from? I also find it rather sad that alot of GWFs cannot see beyond their own class. You will see that GWFs have the upper hand if you played other classes.
Lol NO on is Immortal. And a FUlly geared Sent GWF does not = Tene's. Actually Tene's suck. and they suck big time. a video? Whisper Meldanen@meldan3n , He can givev you some points on how to kill a Sent GWF. Technique.
in my humble opinion, 2~3 tenes still do great, and give a great burst to kill cws, trs, rangers, gf's block. they only perform poor against gwfs, but still better than stack what? few % more of armor pen?
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
having a GWF myself, i cant really defend the GWF class. They are far from invunerable well maybe 1vs1 they are, but in group fights if you get some chain proning going on a GWF they will be helpless, however... this is the same for every other class.
everything is has its advantages and disadvantages, but i can agree that GWFs have the better advantages>disadvantages currently.
Do you GWFs even know that Deepgash procs more damage than the actual hit it comes from? I also find it rather sad that alot of GWFs cannot see beyond their own class. You will see that GWFs have the upper hand if you played other classes.
I would like to see you not defend gwf after you play premades x premades that know play pvp and they send gf/dcs to stalk you.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I would like to see you not defend gwf after you play premades x premades that know play pvp and they send gf/dcs to stalk you.
95% of the players are not on your lvl with all your perfects and rank 9s plus premade experience.
Do you understand when people talk about certain class being OP doesn't mean he is immortal or dealing too much dmg and stuff, it could mean that class require little to reach a high potential of the class and be effective, while on other class you need a lot more skill/gear to reach the same potential and effectiveness.
GWF's kit simply offer too much in this node control PVP mode, and no you can be a stupid player or a P2W guy and still help your team win game by going to back cap, you may never hit anyone because you suck at aiming your roar/frontline/take down or whatever encounter you use. But as long as you know to press TAB when it reaches half then you are golden. Oh and don't forget to use your sprint to run like hell when they blow all the big hit and drop you low, get a potion nearby then run your *** back, rinse and repeat.
You can say that is because people dunno how to deal with GWF, pugs are stupid, I agree. But a stupid GWF just are more useful then any other stupid players on other class, prove me wrong on this one will you?
Actually I will help you: bad CW, 22k hp and don't even know how to use encounter, all they do is blow 3 dodges to run before they die, and they die so fast in any match; bad DC, poor defensive stat and can't use sun burst or divine mode properly, and ofc he waste all dodges before you even use your cc and big hit; bad GF, use block all the time even when they are not supposed to, think they can face tank everything, dunno how to make good use of their encounter or cc, they are just a walking kill with slightly higher HP pool; bad TR, try to stealth and LB you and never know when to use ITC, as soon as ITC is down they pop, that TR know to use shadow strike? and he doesn't know he can be seen in stealth if he gets too close, get cc and still die; bad HR, blow all dodges at once to gain distance so they think they can aim you to death and they dunno gap close in this game is so easy, can't position their skill properly, randomly switch to meele hoping to kill u only to get hit by all kind of **** then die.
If a class can be useful when the player is bad/not good, and as useful as other class when players are good(premade lvl). I believe something need to be done to this class, more likely a NERF.
In legit premade anything can be countered, nothing is op, but how many those players are around. It really ain't many.
Lol NO on is Immortal. And a FUlly geared Sent GWF does not = Tene's. Actually Tene's suck. and they suck big time. a video? Whisper Meldanen@meldan3n , He can givev you some points on how to kill a Sent GWF. Technique.
I find GWF has poor scaling when getting close to BIS while CW is the opposite, you need good gear/ BIS to make CW a real threat in PVP.
I would say Mel has technique but he is also legit BIS, there is like nothing more he can have on his toon. I honestly would like to see him fight u with a normal vorpal and normal barkshield/soulforged, plus rank 7. Because that would be a true demonstration of skills. I personally on my cw find using normal vorpal and rank 7 is not enough to kill any sent GWF that has equal or above gear with decent skill. They will out regen you and kill you because you will not dodge everything, and GWF at-will actually hurts.
I wonder if any of the people complaining about GWF currently, have tried to play any NON top geared sentinel in PvP?
If not, then you should go ahead and check it. It's ugly and you don't even get to live through your Determination full proc. GWF regen/deflect/def is the ONLY way to be able to tank in PvP and play a role in the team. Otherwise you will need to be babysitted much like a squishy CW (only that you won't be able to stay behind and cast freely).
Also, lately...HR melee build is giving GWFs run for their money, since the Master of Combat procs go through Unstoppable and the combat rangers are equally (if not more) tanky in 1v1 situation. So, I guess in premades vs premades, a DC/GF can stall a GWF and a top-notch gear Bilethorn TR or Combat HR can even threaten to kill it in 1v1.
I hate to add to this flame war, but I'd at least like to share my opinion. My main is an IV sent. I tend to change my gear than the typical cookie cutter sent because i like to change it up time and time again. I've put a lot of man hours into making him what he is and I'm really happy with the result. He may have BiS armor, but I'm still a ways away from full r10 enchants. I've PvP'd through each module and have had some really good times and some really bad times. I typically pug because I tend to pvp during the off hours of my guild's grouping. I just want to say that there is no OP class in this game. Each class has a combination of set skills that can really work to the class mechanics. There are some that can survive much longer than others, those that can CC and stun lock others, and those that can crit and almost one-shot others. I love my sent build because it actually works and stands a chance in PvP, not to mention that I can actually PvE again. This class has the biggest disadvantage out of any class when it comes to a gear-centric class. As a GWF, we have no easy way to be "OP" in PvP. To do this, we must invest a lot of time, AD, and sometimes real money in order to get our GWFs to BiS gear to stand a chance in PvP. Yes our damage is good (who wouldn't have good damage when you swing around a massive sword all day), but it's not the best that our class can achieve. We trade off a lot of damage by going into sent spec rather than berserker. As a fairly good sent myself, I can assure you that we can die, and we can die often given the right counter to our class. I've dominated pug matches with lower GS players, but I've also been dominated in PvP with groups that had comparable GS or the right group composition and group dynamics. I've played enough to see all of the mighty "OP" classes and players be brought down by the right group composition. Don't ever expect to win against a highly geared group with a great group dynamic.
To be clear, I have a character of every class, so I feel pretty confident in knowing their mechanics and builds. I know them well enough to see where their weaknesses lie and how to counter them. I find that to be the fun part of PvP. It adds something to the game to have to actually know an opposing class and build in order to counter them properly. Sure I get angry at full sent groups, full permastealth TRs and groups with two immortal DCs, or groups with more than one GF built for prone-lock. PvP shouldn't be easy. It should be challenging and fun and dynamic. The saddest part about NW PvP is that is very gear based, so much so that an average, not so well geared player will have a tougher time.
The way Cryptic is structured a the moment leads me to believe that none of these posts will ever be taken seriously until they start losing money. My suggestion is that you should attempt to play the class you have the most problems with and learn the mechanics and builds. Each person that has made a widely used build and posted about it on the forums will tell you the flaws and strengths of their builds as well as some strategies to counter problem class builds. It does take a lot of skill to PvP well at endgame and some better gear. For right now, bite the bullet until your gear can compare and I'm sure you'll change your tune once you realize how much good gear will open up the potential of your class.
This is just my opinion, so take from it what you will and thanks for reading! Here's a cookie (.*,') P.S. It's chocolate chip!
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
The way Cryptic is structured a the moment leads me to believe that none of these posts will ever be taken seriously until they start losing money.
It's not about Cryptic's structure. What do you expect them to do? Respond to every QQ thread with a nerf or buff of some sort? Right now, top geared PvP is balanced and no class is overpowered. Talking about same good geared people facing other good geared people, with an understanding of what they are doing.
Now if those posts are about one 7k GS pugs not being able to nuke down a Regen Sent, then I guess the problem is not on the GWF, but in the matchmaking system.
Every MMO is like that, however the most popular MMOs keep the top geared/highest performing players busy with competitive games against other same caliber players/teams, while here all the fish are in the same tank. So if a guy that just got his first epic keeps getting one shotted by a P.Vorpal BiS rogue...then you know that next day he is going to whine about 'rogues attacking from stealth and dealling massive damage and and and and..."
It's not about Cryptic's structure. What do you expect them to do? Respond to every QQ thread with a nerf or buff of some sort? Right now, top geared PvP is balanced and no class is overpowered. Talking about same good geared people facing other good geared people, with an understanding of what they are doing.
Now if those posts are about one 7k GS pugs not being able to nuke down a Regen Sent, then I guess the problem is not on the GWF, but in the matchmaking system.
Every MMO is like, however the most popular MMOs keep the top geared/highest performing players busy with competitive games against other same caliber players/teams, while here all the fish are in the same tank. So if a guy that just got his first epic keeps getting one shotted by a P.Vorpal BiS rogue...then you know that next day he is going to whine about 'rogues attacking from stealth and dealling massive damage and and and and..."
I agree with you 100%. We definitely either need a grouped and ungrouped matchmaking system, or several tiers in lvl 60 pvp based on GS. Either that or have a buff/debuff system which averages the entire match's gear score and adjust stats to even it out. That last option is rather out there, but still doable. I'm not entirely sure how people would react to it. I know I would be a little disappointed due to the time and effort I put into my character to make him well geared.
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
95% of the players are not on your lvl with all your perfects and rank 9s plus premade experience.
Do you understand when people talk about certain class being OP doesn't mean he is immortal or dealing too much dmg and stuff, it could mean that class require little to reach a high potential of the class and be effective, while on other class you need a lot more skill/gear to reach the same potential and effectiveness.
GWF's kit simply offer too much in this node control PVP mode, and no you can be a stupid player or a P2W guy and still help your team win game by going to back cap, you may never hit anyone because you suck at aiming your roar/frontline/take down or whatever encounter you use. But as long as you know to press TAB when it reaches half then you are golden. Oh and don't forget to use your sprint to run like hell when they blow all the big hit and drop you low, get a potion nearby then run your *** back, rinse and repeat.
You can say that is because people dunno how to deal with GWF, pugs are stupid, I agree. But a stupid GWF just are more useful then any other stupid players on other class, prove me wrong on this one will you?
Actually I will help you: bad CW, 22k hp and don't even know how to use encounter, all they do is blow 3 dodges to run before they die, and they die so fast in any match; bad DC, poor defensive stat and can't use sun burst or divine mode properly, and ofc he waste all dodges before you even use your cc and big hit; bad GF, use block all the time even when they are not supposed to, think they can face tank everything, dunno how to make good use of their encounter or cc, they are just a walking kill with slightly higher HP pool; bad TR, try to stealth and LB you and never know when to use ITC, as soon as ITC is down they pop, that TR know to use shadow strike? and he doesn't know he can be seen in stealth if he gets too close, get cc and still die; bad HR, blow all dodges at once to gain distance so they think they can aim you to death and they dunno gap close in this game is so easy, can't position their skill properly, randomly switch to meele hoping to kill u only to get hit by all kind of **** then die.
If a class can be useful when the player is bad/not good, and as useful as other class when players are good(premade lvl). I believe something need to be done to this class, more likely a NERF.
In legit premade anything can be countered, nothing is op, but how many those players are around. It really ain't many.
If i understood your post, and to make it brief, you are saying gwf needs to be nerfed because majority of players are stupid and don't know what to do when they fight a GWF, and GWF is easier to play for stupid people.
If that is what you said, so lets punish the non stupid gwf players for making them horrible against other classes players that know how to play. (as if they are not easily stalled) already.
i pug everyday, and honestly is rare to find these "gwfs" destroying everybody. as matter of fact yes i am full ranks 10/perfects. it is not easy for pugs to beat me, so i need to be nerfed because I have better geared, so I will do poorly against equal gear people just to satisfy people that don't have equal gear?
Right... clap clap
so let's punish the true pvpers because most people don't know play PvP, and it is not fair for them.
Brilliant idea dude.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
This is exactly what i do on my GF. and you say stalk, thats all a player can do until you outnumber a GWF.
nope, only if the player is stupid and don't know how to play domination.
gf, dc will actually mine points off gwf by stalking him.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Don't forget other GWFs similrarly built and geared can keep the node neutral forever. So effectively there are strategies around it. However I think that the main issue of people facing good geared defensive GWFs is that they can't melt him by simply spamming their damage randomly.
I can’t kill a GWF, but as a GF I neutralize him/her. All I have to do is stand on the point and bash em off every time they come close. They have no dodging capability or block. So basically, they go flying, my team gets a few points, they come, back, go flying, my team gets a few more points.
I once did this for ten minutes. Usually someone comes over to tip the balance but on that occasion no one turned up and the GWF refused to go elsewhere.
Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
I don't know about anybody else but I'm pretty fed up of GWF owning everyone in PvP. Seriously, it takes a full group of 5 players just to take a single GWF down. How can such an unbalance go unnoticed in testing? Seriously.
I have a GWF so I could just play him but I am trying to get gear for my new ranger and its infuriating to go against a God Mode class like GWF.
Today, I had a GWF sit on my flag while I pelted him with arrows and he didn't even bother attack me because he knew I couldnt hurt him. He just sat there laughing at me.
PLEASE FIX THIS!!!!!
Trolls will be trolls. Most are more talented than you, though.
If i understood your post, and to make it brief, you are saying gwf needs to be nerfed because majority of players are stupid and don't know what to do when they fight a GWF, and GWF is easier to play for stupid people.
If that is what you said, so lets punish the non stupid gwf players for making them horrible against other classes players that know how to play. (as if they are not easily stalled) already.
i pug everyday, and honestly is rare to find these "gwfs" destroying everybody. as matter of fact yes i am full ranks 10/perfects. it is not easy for pugs to beat me, so i need to be nerfed because I have better geared, so I will do poorly against equal gear people just to satisfy people that don't have equal gear?
Right... clap clap
so let's punish the true pvpers because most people don't know play PvP, and it is not fair for them.
Brilliant idea dude.
By nerfing a class it doesn't mean a simple change of number output etc. It could mean increase the skill require to pull certain combo or use of skill, or a change that involve class mechanic( in GWF's case might be unstoppable ) which award player with decent skill and actually punish those bad players when they make mistake.
And by your reply you basically admit that stupid player benefit more when play a GWF, if so there should be no ground for u to hold anything against me.
Why do u have such a one track mind? THINK PLZ. And think harder. It is really exhausting to explain something simple in detail way cause it is dumb.
Not everyone is a crying baby some people actually may know more than u do if you don't realize that all this talk are just waste of time since you can't really take in opinion even when the opinion is really neutral. You simply twist my thoughts so you can give yourself a valid argument, which is really pathetic if that is intentional.
Comments
GF plain sucks unless u like going a full bunker build that would never kill anything.
Hybrid/Dps build no longer works due to the Mod 2 change, and a Hybrid/Dps build GF is simply outclassed by sent GWF.
What I find more disturbing is that you were expecting to win against a well-geared Sent as a new 60 HR. You can't really faceroll an iron tank with a glass cannon. If you know you can't win against a Sent, just contest the point with him and stay alive for as long as possible. Let your teammates concentrate on the other more controllable nodes if you are confident that you can stalemate a Sent on his point. PVP in this game isn't about getting the most kills, it's basically just earning more points from towers. So if you can't earn points from a tower because of some force of nature like Iron Vanguard Sents, just take it as it is. Contest, concentrate on others.
Omg that cleric placed that dang circle on the ground and I couldn't kill himmm... oh wait the dc is eating dirt and flung to the other side of the map.... mn
OMG That cleric cast divine exaltation and became completely immune to all damage... oh nm it was only for 1 second, eating floor agin.
OMG That cleric cast Daunting light and blew me up... oh nm, It a long casting time and I cane easily dodge it nw...
Well I will just heal myself then, oh wait I was cc'd 20 thousand times in a row.....
Seriously though, fighters are made to fight and gwf 's are made to be able to engage and bring down targets quickly. Honestly, if you expect taking them done with anything other than magic to be easy (and even that's not easy because they have so many hit points and a high fort save) you have a misunderstanding of how much of the base game is structured. (Plus if you think gwf fighters are op, you should meet a pnp lvl 30 angelic avenger demigod devoted cleric: nearly invicible, flies, and rains holy fire down on the whole battalion to boot! Plus it comes back when it dies! Fun for the whole party!) Honestly, there aren't many classes that excel at 1v1 fighting other than the strikers. The fact the the fighter is one of them should come as a no brainer.
In that case, the argument becomes one for a for skill based ranking system, and a matchmaker that accounts for gearscore.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
Feel free to post your videos with you against one of the top GWFs in the game, 1 vs 1, so I can learn from you. To be clear, I kill A LOT of GWFs myself as a CW. However, tene GWFs especially with Fey Thistle/Briartwine are plain impossible. If they don't have tenes, usually I can kite one for 10 minutes, then in the end I tire, make a mistake, and die while the guy has just regen to 100% during the kiting. I have 14K GS (meh...) mostly r8s and perfect vorpal. I can go full squish for lots of ArP or get around 27.5K HP with 1800 ArP or so. The issue is that they will deflect a lot of your big attacks, regen through during the kiting and in the end get to you and burst you down because you don't regen as good even with 1200 of it.
However, what I'm most annoyed is that the CW starts the fight as the prey, and GWF on the chase as the predator. I'd suggest that you look at ET vs LS premade matches on YT, Gannicus' perspective. He is the cat chasing the little mouse, it's transparent...
Again... it's not about mediocre GWFs... it's about the good ones. I'm not even talking about the top guys.
Indeed.
remove most cc from pvp and the game would be much better
the build i talked about was created post nerf of archery mastery.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Lol NO on is Immortal. And a FUlly geared Sent GWF does not = Tene's. Actually Tene's suck. and they suck big time. a video? Whisper Meldanen@meldan3n , He can givev you some points on how to kill a Sent GWF. Technique.
Right.
Words are for nothing. Videos are proof. Actually Trace took the time and posted CW vs GWF - but even he came to the conclusion that tenes are too much. Against a CW, who has lower DR, tenes RULE. And we cannot get good DR in PvP without giving up on our precious HP radiants, which will be fail. Maybe with an epic/legendary artifact things might be a bit better, I know there's one with Defense on it.
All of you guys have Fey Thistle at least, and tenes will proc on us from simply hitting you, and no, we can't dodge our own hits.
So they are as good as ever against CWs.
Again: CWs, including me, can kill many GWFs. We can't kill tene GOOD GWFs. Average guys are no issue, you can just repel&kite them forever until you get a huge burst.
everything is has its advantages and disadvantages, but i can agree that GWFs have the better advantages>disadvantages currently.
Do you GWFs even know that Deepgash procs more damage than the actual hit it comes from? I also find it rather sad that alot of GWFs cannot see beyond their own class. You will see that GWFs have the upper hand if you played other classes.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
95% of the players are not on your lvl with all your perfects and rank 9s plus premade experience.
Do you understand when people talk about certain class being OP doesn't mean he is immortal or dealing too much dmg and stuff, it could mean that class require little to reach a high potential of the class and be effective, while on other class you need a lot more skill/gear to reach the same potential and effectiveness.
GWF's kit simply offer too much in this node control PVP mode, and no you can be a stupid player or a P2W guy and still help your team win game by going to back cap, you may never hit anyone because you suck at aiming your roar/frontline/take down or whatever encounter you use. But as long as you know to press TAB when it reaches half then you are golden. Oh and don't forget to use your sprint to run like hell when they blow all the big hit and drop you low, get a potion nearby then run your *** back, rinse and repeat.
You can say that is because people dunno how to deal with GWF, pugs are stupid, I agree. But a stupid GWF just are more useful then any other stupid players on other class, prove me wrong on this one will you?
Actually I will help you: bad CW, 22k hp and don't even know how to use encounter, all they do is blow 3 dodges to run before they die, and they die so fast in any match; bad DC, poor defensive stat and can't use sun burst or divine mode properly, and ofc he waste all dodges before you even use your cc and big hit; bad GF, use block all the time even when they are not supposed to, think they can face tank everything, dunno how to make good use of their encounter or cc, they are just a walking kill with slightly higher HP pool; bad TR, try to stealth and LB you and never know when to use ITC, as soon as ITC is down they pop, that TR know to use shadow strike? and he doesn't know he can be seen in stealth if he gets too close, get cc and still die; bad HR, blow all dodges at once to gain distance so they think they can aim you to death and they dunno gap close in this game is so easy, can't position their skill properly, randomly switch to meele hoping to kill u only to get hit by all kind of **** then die.
If a class can be useful when the player is bad/not good, and as useful as other class when players are good(premade lvl). I believe something need to be done to this class, more likely a NERF.
In legit premade anything can be countered, nothing is op, but how many those players are around. It really ain't many.
I find GWF has poor scaling when getting close to BIS while CW is the opposite, you need good gear/ BIS to make CW a real threat in PVP.
I would say Mel has technique but he is also legit BIS, there is like nothing more he can have on his toon. I honestly would like to see him fight u with a normal vorpal and normal barkshield/soulforged, plus rank 7. Because that would be a true demonstration of skills. I personally on my cw find using normal vorpal and rank 7 is not enough to kill any sent GWF that has equal or above gear with decent skill. They will out regen you and kill you because you will not dodge everything, and GWF at-will actually hurts.
This is exactly what i do on my GF. and you say stalk, thats all a player can do until you outnumber a GWF.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
If not, then you should go ahead and check it. It's ugly and you don't even get to live through your Determination full proc. GWF regen/deflect/def is the ONLY way to be able to tank in PvP and play a role in the team. Otherwise you will need to be babysitted much like a squishy CW (only that you won't be able to stay behind and cast freely).
Also, lately...HR melee build is giving GWFs run for their money, since the Master of Combat procs go through Unstoppable and the combat rangers are equally (if not more) tanky in 1v1 situation. So, I guess in premades vs premades, a DC/GF can stall a GWF and a top-notch gear Bilethorn TR or Combat HR can even threaten to kill it in 1v1.
To be clear, I have a character of every class, so I feel pretty confident in knowing their mechanics and builds. I know them well enough to see where their weaknesses lie and how to counter them. I find that to be the fun part of PvP. It adds something to the game to have to actually know an opposing class and build in order to counter them properly. Sure I get angry at full sent groups, full permastealth TRs and groups with two immortal DCs, or groups with more than one GF built for prone-lock. PvP shouldn't be easy. It should be challenging and fun and dynamic. The saddest part about NW PvP is that is very gear based, so much so that an average, not so well geared player will have a tougher time.
The way Cryptic is structured a the moment leads me to believe that none of these posts will ever be taken seriously until they start losing money. My suggestion is that you should attempt to play the class you have the most problems with and learn the mechanics and builds. Each person that has made a widely used build and posted about it on the forums will tell you the flaws and strengths of their builds as well as some strategies to counter problem class builds. It does take a lot of skill to PvP well at endgame and some better gear. For right now, bite the bullet until your gear can compare and I'm sure you'll change your tune once you realize how much good gear will open up the potential of your class.
This is just my opinion, so take from it what you will and thanks for reading! Here's a cookie (.*,') P.S. It's chocolate chip!
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf
Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf
Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling
Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf
Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow
Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
It's not about Cryptic's structure. What do you expect them to do? Respond to every QQ thread with a nerf or buff of some sort? Right now, top geared PvP is balanced and no class is overpowered. Talking about same good geared people facing other good geared people, with an understanding of what they are doing.
Now if those posts are about one 7k GS pugs not being able to nuke down a Regen Sent, then I guess the problem is not on the GWF, but in the matchmaking system.
Every MMO is like that, however the most popular MMOs keep the top geared/highest performing players busy with competitive games against other same caliber players/teams, while here all the fish are in the same tank. So if a guy that just got his first epic keeps getting one shotted by a P.Vorpal BiS rogue...then you know that next day he is going to whine about 'rogues attacking from stealth and dealling massive damage and and and and..."
Edit: Correcting stuff
I agree with you 100%. We definitely either need a grouped and ungrouped matchmaking system, or several tiers in lvl 60 pvp based on GS. Either that or have a buff/debuff system which averages the entire match's gear score and adjust stats to even it out. That last option is rather out there, but still doable. I'm not entirely sure how people would react to it. I know I would be a little disappointed due to the time and effort I put into my character to make him well geared.
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf
Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf
Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling
Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf
Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow
Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
If i understood your post, and to make it brief, you are saying gwf needs to be nerfed because majority of players are stupid and don't know what to do when they fight a GWF, and GWF is easier to play for stupid people.
If that is what you said, so lets punish the non stupid gwf players for making them horrible against other classes players that know how to play. (as if they are not easily stalled) already.
i pug everyday, and honestly is rare to find these "gwfs" destroying everybody. as matter of fact yes i am full ranks 10/perfects. it is not easy for pugs to beat me, so i need to be nerfed because I have better geared, so I will do poorly against equal gear people just to satisfy people that don't have equal gear?
Right... clap clap
so let's punish the true pvpers because most people don't know play PvP, and it is not fair for them.
Brilliant idea dude.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
nope, only if the player is stupid and don't know how to play domination.
gf, dc will actually mine points off gwf by stalking him.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I once did this for ten minutes. Usually someone comes over to tip the balance but on that occasion no one turned up and the GWF refused to go elsewhere.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
Trolls will be trolls. Most are more talented than you, though.
By nerfing a class it doesn't mean a simple change of number output etc. It could mean increase the skill require to pull certain combo or use of skill, or a change that involve class mechanic( in GWF's case might be unstoppable ) which award player with decent skill and actually punish those bad players when they make mistake.
And by your reply you basically admit that stupid player benefit more when play a GWF, if so there should be no ground for u to hold anything against me.
Why do u have such a one track mind? THINK PLZ. And think harder. It is really exhausting to explain something simple in detail way cause it is dumb.
Not everyone is a crying baby some people actually may know more than u do if you don't realize that all this talk are just waste of time since you can't really take in opinion even when the opinion is really neutral. You simply twist my thoughts so you can give yourself a valid argument, which is really pathetic if that is intentional.