you have the option of using preservation wards to protect your reagents in the new system... just like you would protect one of your four enchants in the fuse system. they're not necessarily required but without them, you stand to lose something. they can and will drop from a coffer in module 2. just like they can and do drop from the coffer today. it's you getting something for free for invoking. i can't speak for how anyone else plays, but i have always bought packs of 10 preservation wards from the zen store when i'm leveling up enchants. and that's usually exchanged AD for zen that facilitates that purchase. so in addition to coffer-acquired preservation wards, i almost always am using zen store purchased preservation wards. i don't see this changing for me in module 2.
for coalescent wards, i have mostly waited on my RNG luck but i have purchased coal wards from the auction house. i have never purchased coal wards from the zen store. this may or may not change for me in module 2.
ultimately, the number of coal wards needed for item progression has been greatly reduced. i don't know why anyone would dislike these changes unless they just don't understand them.
That may well be the case...but until we get the 'new' system in hand and can take it for a test drive...we only have the '%chance' drop to formulate an idea.
They really do need to tone down progression cost of a character since this game is not based on playing one character forever.
We are about to have 6 characters to play and by this time next year I would expect 8. Spending copious amounts of money and/or time on kitting one character is a huge detraction. I would love to kit out multiple characters. Basing the time needed against my main that is sitting at 45 days 7 hours and 12 minutes is telling me that the grind is a bit much. I have completed every dungeon many many times. I have played pvp matches in the hundreds. I spent 100 bucks just on fluff for the character and I still do not have the best of the best in enchants. When the grind becomes more than the fun factor then you will see folks bailing. Some just have higher thresholds than others.
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methilloMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited November 2013
The way I see it, the Zen shop isn't for everybody and that's ok since nothing there is needed for a normal player, so you can play the game without ever purchasing anything.
BUt as a fact i know that $10 for an outfit is a bit too much for many people, specially if they live in countries where 1 dollar equals 3 or more of their own currencie like it is for me, with that money i could afford a fancy dinner with my girlfriend (she tough i was crazy when i bough $10 worth Zen instead of going to the movies and pizza xD) but again i don't think me and other people like me are the market PWE are aiming at and that is ok since as i said before there is nothing i can't get with AD instead of Zen with a litle bit more grinding of my side.
I think if the prices would go down a bit I would buy more zen every now and then or any of the pack they offer at every new module like i bough the IGN companion, but either way it's not a deal breaker for me right now since i don't like much of the stuff they sell and that's the real problem here, they should put more effort in customization, we are talking D&D after all and i'm sure that with more outfits and fashion itens there would be more customers as of now.
You can get 2000 ADs each day, just from the 3 invocations. If you work on leveling up leadership, and stay on top of your tasks, you can have a constant stream of ADs. If you run epic dungeons, you can sell or salvage any items you get for more ADs. You can also salvage the seal items for more ADs. If you take advantage of the various ways in which you can earn ADs, you can eventually pay for all or some of any Zen-store purchase, via the AD exchange. The prices are high if you look at them from the perspective of someone who wants the items now, and isn't supplementing the purchase with ADs earned in-game. Be patient, plan ahead, and you will be able to get whatever you want *eventually*.
You are correct in everything you say HOWEVER........The AD price on items is grossly inflated relative to the amount of AD you can earn in game AND have a real life. The game would be much more fun if they addressed that inflation of prices and reduced the cost of zen quite bit.
If Zen's cost decreased or its value increased many people would be more likely to spend. I really wish that PW would try the Allods idea of offering a subscription based server for the game. While Gpotatoe is a goofy company that is a very cool idea. I think games offering either the F2P/P2W and also a sub model would capture a much higher user base.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
You are correct in everything you say HOWEVER........The AD price on items is grossly inflated relative to the amount of AD you can earn in game AND have a real life. The game would be much more fun if they addressed that inflation of prices and reduced the cost of zen quite bit.
If Zen's cost decreased or its value increased many people would be more likely to spend. I really wish that PW would try the Allods idea of offering a subscription based server for the game. While Gpotatoe is a goofy company that is a very cool idea. I think games offering either the F2P/P2W and also a sub model would capture a much higher user base.
In some regards I agree with what you're saying. OTOH, the PWE execs do seem to have some sort of formula in mind when it comes to price per unit vs number of units sold.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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knyteshadeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited December 2013
I've definitely enjoyed this game, and still look forward to a day when I will continue to enjoy it. Most often, I play other games, and look sadly toward the "Neverwinter Icon" on my desktop every now and then. I have many characters created on NW, and have fond memories of playing. But I just don't come back all that often anymore.
Why? There are two primary factors to why I rarely play (and thus rarely PAY). High Zen-store prices, and very disappointing costume customization options. Let me break this down into details. First, let me mention that I am on an "entertainment budget" each month. I like to stretch that budget as far as possible.
Where my game budget goes is decided by the ratio of "Dollars Spent, for Enjoyment Gained". For sake of contrast, let me mention my experience on Star Trek Online (Another Cryptic/PWE game). The costumes are extremely customizable... and I can spend hours in the costume customization screen. And I DO spend hours in it. I LOVE this. In fact, it is arguably one of my very favorite things about the game. I love that can pay to "unlock" a certain type of costume piece and then use it account-wide, and individually recolor each "zone" on the costume any time I want. As such, I consider PAYING for a costume unlock in StarTrek to provide a lot of valuable enjoyment for the money spent. This is clearly supported by the fact that I've paid for almost every costume unlock available in that game.
In contrast, my Neverwinter character has a VERY narrow array of costume options. Each of these options is an entire outfit that is pre designed. I don't get any influence of the sense of individuality in the style. Further, the custom coloring options are significantly limited. On top of all this disappointment, everything I get is available for ONE character. And EACH change costs MORE money. I can't just sit in the shop costume shop and change my hair, or tweak the shade of my pants to match my weapons better, which is the sort of thing that made me fall in love with Champions Online and StarTrek Online.
So after having my gamer sensibilities thoroughly injured by the aforementioned, the actual insult is added by realizing how extreme the costs are for a ONE TIME stint coloring ONE small patch of clothing, with a color that was only "ballpark" the color that I actually wanted. The prices are ludicrous.
Now after having expressed all this, I have to sit in wonderment and notice the pattern here with Cryptic games. City of Heroes, Champions Online, Star Trek Online... ALLL have brilliant image customization options at very fair prices. As a result, all of these games have rated for a lot of my TIME and MONEY. How is it that the SAME developer (upon releasing a new game - Neverwinter) managed to downgrade something that they clearly know how to do very well? My thought is that it must be intentional. The "design" team must have specifically made this judgment call, for some bizarre reason. I'm not here to debate these reasons. But I will say that this decision has resulted in me paying significantly less money into Neverwinter than I have (and will continue) to pay into games that have more customization options, and for better prices than Neverwinter. If you closely examine the payments which I have made into Neverwinter, you'll note a pattern where I primarily bias my purchases toward account-wide unlocks, for things available to all characters, that will never require further expenditures. Unfortunately, such deals are not numerous or common enough to keep opening my wallet.
I want to love Neverwinter. That is why I continue to look sadly at the unused Neverwinter Icon, on my desktop, month after month. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE... give me better costume options, and give them to me at a better price that you currently offer. I guarantee you will get more money out of me. There is no question about this.
Next, please recognize that "accessories" like mounts and companions also are a vital customization point for a character. I buy Zen-ships, and Zen-bridge-officers in STO because I know I can customize them greatly, both in terms of performance and aesthetics, without having more money extorted out of my pocket to do so. I have paid a LOT of money for such items specifically because I knew how much I could do with them AFTER I got them.
Now lets discuss the equivalent situations in Neverwinter. I might roughly relate a new Ship in STO to a new Mount in Neverwinter. I cannot customize my mounts in any way. Nor can I change their performance. Similarly, I cannot customize my companions in any sufficiently creative way, nor change their performance. Yet, the cost for a new Mount or Companion is comparable to the prices for a new Ship in Star Trek. Clearly, the "Fun for the Money" ratio is vastly inferior in Neverwinter. And it SHOWS. It shows in the transaction logs of my PerfectWorld account. Look it up! I have, and continue to, spend much more money in Star Trek than Neverwinter.
Crypic... PWE... PLEASE change this. I WANT to enjoy Neverwinter. And I WANT to pay you money. But you're simply not going to get it out of me until you prove that it's going to be worth it, on the terms that I have outlined.
As for how many others like me there truly are out there... who knows? But I can tell you for certain that I do know that I have several other family members and friends who echo my sentiments about the costumes and prices in Neverwinter.
So exactly, how much do customization options mean to me, in a game? Let me put it this way. In Champions Online, I have 30 characters who EACH have 10 different costumes.. EACH of which, I have spent, easily, 20 hours creating and tweaking. Yet, it's incorrect to assume that I don't want combat in my game. Yes, I want a COMBAT mmo, and still require excellent, customizable aesthetics to keep me happy. Yes, it's a high bar. But that high bar is what I will pay you for. What is presently offered, and for laughably high prices to boot, has completely failed to repeatedly open my wallet.
Thanks for listening.
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ulkaurMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
I will agree. The fashion system is likely the least-thought out function in the game, with the repurposing of enchanting a close second. From making temporary items to just blatantly expensive items, to items that either make my character's hair disappear or overlap each other so that pixels go through other items. Fashion could have waited until they got it right, and I don't see any sign of fixing what is wrong currently.
That and the expense of inventory space makes fashion not considered a big thing in my book for this game.
Also, I hope they are planning on going somewhere with collections. Currently, other than a few titles, there is nothing. It would have been better to combie collections with achievements, and place a vendor in the game where you could buy things with the points.
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pridesenvyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited December 2013
not to shoot myself in the foot here but given the AD/zen rate and the 24k per character per day (2 max until you buy slots or screw PWI over and just multi account) prices are a little steep considering you still need your AD to upgrade your enchants upgrade your companions/mounts you like and still find cash left over to pick up some decent gear. yes you can make a **** ton of AD just selling things you pick up in dungeons but that isnt MADE AD that is traded the real problem isnt in the prices of the things in the zen market its in the size of the AD sinks in comparison to the makeable AD to upgrade a single companion it takes 13 days worth of a characters AD intake. getting that 24k per day isnt too hard but doing it on multiple characters can be a bit of a pain if you dont really want to waste your valuable game time playing a character other than your main. The zen market is about average in terms of prices but the players ability to earn the currency necessary to purchase it without cash is severely gimped by what is otherwise a brilliant dual currency system.
When lockbox mounts can cost hundreds to unlock for a single character, yes I do say that people are exploited. Whether the customer chooses to buy them is irrelevant. You can't be taken advantage of if you aren't involved... The ones that play for free get a decent game without needing to pay. The ones that do pay, pay the price.
If you expand "exploitation" to include decisions made to voluntarily purchase virtual vanity items which exist inside of a game of leisure, what isn't "exploitation"?
Leave your "eat the rich" sentiments at the door please.
Comments
you have the option of using preservation wards to protect your reagents in the new system... just like you would protect one of your four enchants in the fuse system. they're not necessarily required but without them, you stand to lose something. they can and will drop from a coffer in module 2. just like they can and do drop from the coffer today. it's you getting something for free for invoking. i can't speak for how anyone else plays, but i have always bought packs of 10 preservation wards from the zen store when i'm leveling up enchants. and that's usually exchanged AD for zen that facilitates that purchase. so in addition to coffer-acquired preservation wards, i almost always am using zen store purchased preservation wards. i don't see this changing for me in module 2.
for coalescent wards, i have mostly waited on my RNG luck but i have purchased coal wards from the auction house. i have never purchased coal wards from the zen store. this may or may not change for me in module 2.
ultimately, the number of coal wards needed for item progression has been greatly reduced. i don't know why anyone would dislike these changes unless they just don't understand them.
They really do need to tone down progression cost of a character since this game is not based on playing one character forever.
We are about to have 6 characters to play and by this time next year I would expect 8. Spending copious amounts of money and/or time on kitting one character is a huge detraction. I would love to kit out multiple characters. Basing the time needed against my main that is sitting at 45 days 7 hours and 12 minutes is telling me that the grind is a bit much. I have completed every dungeon many many times. I have played pvp matches in the hundreds. I spent 100 bucks just on fluff for the character and I still do not have the best of the best in enchants. When the grind becomes more than the fun factor then you will see folks bailing. Some just have higher thresholds than others.
BUt as a fact i know that $10 for an outfit is a bit too much for many people, specially if they live in countries where 1 dollar equals 3 or more of their own currencie like it is for me, with that money i could afford a fancy dinner with my girlfriend (she tough i was crazy when i bough $10 worth Zen instead of going to the movies and pizza xD) but again i don't think me and other people like me are the market PWE are aiming at and that is ok since as i said before there is nothing i can't get with AD instead of Zen with a litle bit more grinding of my side.
I think if the prices would go down a bit I would buy more zen every now and then or any of the pack they offer at every new module like i bough the IGN companion, but either way it's not a deal breaker for me right now since i don't like much of the stuff they sell and that's the real problem here, they should put more effort in customization, we are talking D&D after all and i'm sure that with more outfits and fashion itens there would be more customers as of now.
The population is down and getting smaller every week.
We are not in Asia.
You are correct in everything you say HOWEVER........The AD price on items is grossly inflated relative to the amount of AD you can earn in game AND have a real life. The game would be much more fun if they addressed that inflation of prices and reduced the cost of zen quite bit.
If Zen's cost decreased or its value increased many people would be more likely to spend. I really wish that PW would try the Allods idea of offering a subscription based server for the game. While Gpotatoe is a goofy company that is a very cool idea. I think games offering either the F2P/P2W and also a sub model would capture a much higher user base.
In some regards I agree with what you're saying. OTOH, the PWE execs do seem to have some sort of formula in mind when it comes to price per unit vs number of units sold.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Why? There are two primary factors to why I rarely play (and thus rarely PAY). High Zen-store prices, and very disappointing costume customization options. Let me break this down into details. First, let me mention that I am on an "entertainment budget" each month. I like to stretch that budget as far as possible.
Where my game budget goes is decided by the ratio of "Dollars Spent, for Enjoyment Gained". For sake of contrast, let me mention my experience on Star Trek Online (Another Cryptic/PWE game). The costumes are extremely customizable... and I can spend hours in the costume customization screen. And I DO spend hours in it. I LOVE this. In fact, it is arguably one of my very favorite things about the game. I love that can pay to "unlock" a certain type of costume piece and then use it account-wide, and individually recolor each "zone" on the costume any time I want. As such, I consider PAYING for a costume unlock in StarTrek to provide a lot of valuable enjoyment for the money spent. This is clearly supported by the fact that I've paid for almost every costume unlock available in that game.
In contrast, my Neverwinter character has a VERY narrow array of costume options. Each of these options is an entire outfit that is pre designed. I don't get any influence of the sense of individuality in the style. Further, the custom coloring options are significantly limited. On top of all this disappointment, everything I get is available for ONE character. And EACH change costs MORE money. I can't just sit in the shop costume shop and change my hair, or tweak the shade of my pants to match my weapons better, which is the sort of thing that made me fall in love with Champions Online and StarTrek Online.
So after having my gamer sensibilities thoroughly injured by the aforementioned, the actual insult is added by realizing how extreme the costs are for a ONE TIME stint coloring ONE small patch of clothing, with a color that was only "ballpark" the color that I actually wanted. The prices are ludicrous.
Now after having expressed all this, I have to sit in wonderment and notice the pattern here with Cryptic games. City of Heroes, Champions Online, Star Trek Online... ALLL have brilliant image customization options at very fair prices. As a result, all of these games have rated for a lot of my TIME and MONEY. How is it that the SAME developer (upon releasing a new game - Neverwinter) managed to downgrade something that they clearly know how to do very well? My thought is that it must be intentional. The "design" team must have specifically made this judgment call, for some bizarre reason. I'm not here to debate these reasons. But I will say that this decision has resulted in me paying significantly less money into Neverwinter than I have (and will continue) to pay into games that have more customization options, and for better prices than Neverwinter. If you closely examine the payments which I have made into Neverwinter, you'll note a pattern where I primarily bias my purchases toward account-wide unlocks, for things available to all characters, that will never require further expenditures. Unfortunately, such deals are not numerous or common enough to keep opening my wallet.
I want to love Neverwinter. That is why I continue to look sadly at the unused Neverwinter Icon, on my desktop, month after month. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE... give me better costume options, and give them to me at a better price that you currently offer. I guarantee you will get more money out of me. There is no question about this.
Next, please recognize that "accessories" like mounts and companions also are a vital customization point for a character. I buy Zen-ships, and Zen-bridge-officers in STO because I know I can customize them greatly, both in terms of performance and aesthetics, without having more money extorted out of my pocket to do so. I have paid a LOT of money for such items specifically because I knew how much I could do with them AFTER I got them.
Now lets discuss the equivalent situations in Neverwinter. I might roughly relate a new Ship in STO to a new Mount in Neverwinter. I cannot customize my mounts in any way. Nor can I change their performance. Similarly, I cannot customize my companions in any sufficiently creative way, nor change their performance. Yet, the cost for a new Mount or Companion is comparable to the prices for a new Ship in Star Trek. Clearly, the "Fun for the Money" ratio is vastly inferior in Neverwinter. And it SHOWS. It shows in the transaction logs of my PerfectWorld account. Look it up! I have, and continue to, spend much more money in Star Trek than Neverwinter.
Crypic... PWE... PLEASE change this. I WANT to enjoy Neverwinter. And I WANT to pay you money. But you're simply not going to get it out of me until you prove that it's going to be worth it, on the terms that I have outlined.
As for how many others like me there truly are out there... who knows? But I can tell you for certain that I do know that I have several other family members and friends who echo my sentiments about the costumes and prices in Neverwinter.
So exactly, how much do customization options mean to me, in a game? Let me put it this way. In Champions Online, I have 30 characters who EACH have 10 different costumes.. EACH of which, I have spent, easily, 20 hours creating and tweaking. Yet, it's incorrect to assume that I don't want combat in my game. Yes, I want a COMBAT mmo, and still require excellent, customizable aesthetics to keep me happy. Yes, it's a high bar. But that high bar is what I will pay you for. What is presently offered, and for laughably high prices to boot, has completely failed to repeatedly open my wallet.
Thanks for listening.
That and the expense of inventory space makes fashion not considered a big thing in my book for this game.
Also, I hope they are planning on going somewhere with collections. Currently, other than a few titles, there is nothing. It would have been better to combie collections with achievements, and place a vendor in the game where you could buy things with the points.
If you expand "exploitation" to include decisions made to voluntarily purchase virtual vanity items which exist inside of a game of leisure, what isn't "exploitation"?
Leave your "eat the rich" sentiments at the door please.