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Microtransactions - Paywall too high.
capricornical
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
So I have been enjoying Neverwinter for some time.
I have nearly two level 60 characters (not that it takes very long to hit 60) and figured "Hey, I am spending a good deal of time here, it seems like I should buy something from the Zen store to support the game."
I took a peek in the Companions section, and saw the Ghost. I read her skills and I thought it sounded like a pretty fun companion to have. So I go and look at how much it would cost to buy her and...
20$!?
That's far too much for a companion in the game.
The trick with Microtransactions is to make them micro. If you charge maybe 5$ or 10$ at the most for these things, people will buy them, enjoy them, and buy another one.
If I buy one for 20$ all that will happen is I will constantly think "I could have bought an older playstation game instead..." as my Ghost floats around doing somewhat amusing things.
Later I decided to maybe open a few of the 150 chests I've gathered on each character.
It's about 12$ for a pack of 10 keys, and I'd need 15. I don't expect to ever spend 180$ opening chests. That's absurd.
I realize the keys are about the same price as every other game with keys, but the drop rate for the chests is FAR TOO HIGH. You realize that any spending of money would only put a small dent in your total number of chests, and it seems to daunting so you don't do it.
I didn't expect I'd need to explain simple economics to a company that runs multiple f2p games, but to put it simply:
"Sometimes less is more.".
With reasonable prices I could see the Zen shop being far more successful. Some price cuts and I'd easily convert to a paying customer, and there are many others like me. Sure you don't get an instant 20$ from a Ghost, but you get 5$ from 8 people buying the Ghost instead.
There's a reason mobile gaming is taking off and making boatloads of cash. They make it easy to spend a few bucks every so often. This game demands you spend a large chunk of money each time.
It's not a viable way to run a f2p title.
I have nearly two level 60 characters (not that it takes very long to hit 60) and figured "Hey, I am spending a good deal of time here, it seems like I should buy something from the Zen store to support the game."
I took a peek in the Companions section, and saw the Ghost. I read her skills and I thought it sounded like a pretty fun companion to have. So I go and look at how much it would cost to buy her and...
20$!?
That's far too much for a companion in the game.
The trick with Microtransactions is to make them micro. If you charge maybe 5$ or 10$ at the most for these things, people will buy them, enjoy them, and buy another one.
If I buy one for 20$ all that will happen is I will constantly think "I could have bought an older playstation game instead..." as my Ghost floats around doing somewhat amusing things.
Later I decided to maybe open a few of the 150 chests I've gathered on each character.
It's about 12$ for a pack of 10 keys, and I'd need 15. I don't expect to ever spend 180$ opening chests. That's absurd.
I realize the keys are about the same price as every other game with keys, but the drop rate for the chests is FAR TOO HIGH. You realize that any spending of money would only put a small dent in your total number of chests, and it seems to daunting so you don't do it.
I didn't expect I'd need to explain simple economics to a company that runs multiple f2p games, but to put it simply:
"Sometimes less is more.".
With reasonable prices I could see the Zen shop being far more successful. Some price cuts and I'd easily convert to a paying customer, and there are many others like me. Sure you don't get an instant 20$ from a Ghost, but you get 5$ from 8 people buying the Ghost instead.
There's a reason mobile gaming is taking off and making boatloads of cash. They make it easy to spend a few bucks every so often. This game demands you spend a large chunk of money each time.
It's not a viable way to run a f2p title.
Post edited by capricornical on
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Worthy expenditures:
Character slots. Two slots per purchase. Use them to boost your daily AD intake (professions and invoking) if nothing else.
One purple mount. It's account wide, so each of your characters gains access to said mount which lessens the blow of the cost.
If you play a LOT and end up running lots of DD's with a guild or normal group, you might consider the Stone of Allure as a companion. It augments your own character, won't die, won't draw aggro etc.
Bank slots for your main toon, maybe a bag of holding.
if you're a player that hasn't put any money into the game, your first companion is free. and it's a viable companion even if it's of the "common" variety. your first mount, you get three free rental tokens. your first "common" mount is purchasable for 5 gold. after 20 levels of running/walking/hopping, even at a 50% speed, it's a welcomed advantage. add to that the fact that uncommon companions and mounts have been rewards for past events as well.
the names of the ranks are even telling. common, uncommon, rare, epic.
since zen is a currency that can be purchased with real money and traded for astral diamonds, the zen price of these items are likely set to make these rares and epics more of a challenge to attain. no zen store item purchase is required to level up or to play the game... the items are designed for convenience and vanity. rare and epic variety mounts and companions, professions booster packs... lockbox keys... since the zen store is the way the company makes its money, it wouldn't make sense that all zen store items could be quickly and easily acquired through in-game activity only. and anyone could use a combination of exchanged AD and purchased zen to actually lower the cost of some of these items.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Neverwinter's ZEN shop prices factor in the reality that it is possible to get ZEN by trading AD to other players instead of or in addition to buying it with cash. So, they can charge more because a player can subsidize their ZEN purchase with AD earned by just playing the game.
This works because AD is just as desirable to some players as ZEN is to others. They have done a pretty good job setting it up so that there are players willing to trade on both sides of the market.
The ZEN store isn't really a microtransaction store to me. I think of it more as a shop where you can literally earn anything sold in it by just playing the game and grinding AD. However, you also have the option of using cash to lessen or even eliminate that grind.
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This company that doesn't know how to run f2p titles has been running cash shops in many titles successfully for years. As such, your explanation of simple economics is obviously not needed by them. It is also obvious that their method of running this f2p title is quite viable, as they are continuing to expand the offering at a decent pace with no end in sight.
They have enough knowledge and experience in pricing in MMO cash shops over several years in several titles to know when less would likely be more, and when less would likely just end out being less.
The payment model doesn't take advantage of anyone as nothing available for purchase is required to play the game. As such, all purchases are optional.
Those that can't justify the cost of option X won't buy it, so they can't be taken advantage of.
Those that can justify the cost of option X will buy it, and since they have already justified the purchase of option X to themselves, which is the only justification needed from their point of view, they can't be taken advantage of either.
When lockbox mounts can cost hundreds to unlock for a single character, yes I do say that people are exploited. Whether the customer chooses to buy them is irrelevant. You can't be taken advantage of if you aren't involved... The ones that play for free get a decent game without needing to pay. The ones that do pay, pay the price.
So they did actually change the mount thing? I was wondering about that because that was a bit ridiculous to buy the same mount for every toon for hundreds of dollars!
I agree mounts should cost that much WoW has mounts for $25 but the companions probably not. It's a bit much to have such a high cost for something so limited and then there are the advantages these companions bring to things like PVP. It's just not a good move imo.
Oh and before someone harasses me for my title, I actually don't want to ride on a spider on ALL of my toons, I'm an altaholic and like for my toons to actually be different. :P
Lockbox mounts can be obtained through means other than purchasing lockboxes and hoping for the best. One can simply purchase them in the auction house, if that is all that is wanted from a box. As such, there is no exploitation, as there is no need to even purchase a single lockbox to get what many consider to be the most valuable item in it.
Purchasing lockboxes is a choice based issue that has nothing to do with exploitation.
This one confused me because Companions don't bring ANYTHING to PvP they are deactivated anytime you enter a PvP map......
So basically there's no way a company can exploit it's customers apart from fraud?
I think we need to clarify things here. A company can sell whatever they want, (within legal limits of course). It is up to the customer to exercise restraint and reason when making their purchases. If someone goes into a store and buys tons and tons of candy, and eats it to the point that they develop diabetes, it is not the stores fault for selling it to them, or obligation to stop selling it to them. Similarly, the devs have made mounts available in many ways, and have provided several ways of acquiring them. If a person cannot exert restraint to stop themselves from making purchases and/or looking at their expectations vs reality, objectively, then it is up to them or their loved ones/friends to get them help.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The companies that can exploit their customers other than by means of fraud are those that exclusively produce a life necessary product, or where such a product is produced by such a small number of companies that price determination doesn't follow the normal market norms.
There is nothing that any MMO offers that falls in this category.
The issue to me, as I've said in other threads, is that the prices for Neverwinter are more expensive by a huge margin than any other cryptic game, and all three allow you to earn Astral Diamonds (Questionite in CO, Dilithium in STO) and convert them to Zen. Of the three games, there is absolutely not one category of purchase where Neverwinter is the least expensive, and it is tied or the highest in every category, or it simply doesn't sell that thing at all (extra costume slots for example).
Some examples:
The most expensive vehicle in Champions is 1,800 zen. It is account bound so you can pass it between characters.
The most expensive ship in STO is 2,500 zen. It is an account wide unlock, each character can claim an infinite number of them if desired.
The most expensive mount in NW is 3,500 zen. It is account wide, everyone can have one.
All three games have given out free travel items via events.
Costumes:
CO comes with 2 costume slots base, one more when you join a guild, and up to 4 more via leveling if you have a subscription. You can buy additional costume slots account wide (apply to all characters on the account) for zen. Changing your appearance (equivalent of fashion gear) costs gold, not astrals, not zen. There are dozens of "fashion item" unlocks that drop from enemies, are unlocked by completing accomplishments, and quest rewards. The most expensive fashion item via zen is the 800zen bundle that comes with a full power armor costume unlocked account wide, plus a travel power (costs 500zen by itself). Most fashion items are at a fixed 475zen price.
STO gives 2 costume slots free, additional as you level as vet awards and for subscribing. You can buy 2-more account wide for 600zen. Costumes are sold in the zen store for 475zen, and there's a few guild-based fashion items you can buy for 10,000 astral diamonds (Odyssey uniform), plus a few you get for completing tasks and grinding reputation (roughly similar to the shadavar campaign but only roughly). Changing your character's look costs gold, not astrals, not zen.
NW has a fighting gear costume and one fashion costume. You cannot buy more. No fashion items drop from enemies nor from missions with the exception of rags to riches which can't even be dyed. One set is available free from the summer event. All others cost cash-not-zen (from the bundles) or are in the zen store for 600zen (cheapest) up to over 1,000zen. You have to buy colors from the zen store in consumable packs, there are some you can get for free by invoking.
Gear
The Questionite (Astral Diamond) store in CO sells end-game (purple) gear for 150,000 (Vigilante Set). Levelling sets cost 11,000 per item (6 pieces to complete a set, get partial bonus for 3 pieces) there are 3 options. Or you can buy new travel powers (the equivalent of a mount) for a maximum of 250,000 (the three swinging powers, all others are cheaper). non-combat vanity pets cost between 5,000 and 50,000. COs mods (equivalent to enchantments) cost from 10,000 to 150,000.
STO has both a dilithium store and a guild store that consumes dilithium. Prices range up to 250,000 per item for end-game gear.
NW prices exceed 1 million. Upgrading a white companion or mount to green costs more than 200,000 (I looked once, thought it had to be a typo, checked again, and decided I'd never do it, so I don't recall the exact price and I can't log in to check right now). That's more than almost anything in either of the other games. And that's not even end-game worthy.
You can keep going comparing item after item. NW's prices are straight up higher than the other two games. Both other games allow you to convert their equivalent of astrals to zen also. Really, NW's prices are pretty indefensible. I've seen it said that the reason they're higher is NW has no subscriptions. Maybe. CO pretty much doesn't make much money via subscriptions either (Painful, but true). Keys and the exchange are the real revenue driver.
However from a financial point of view i would imagine lowering the barrier of entry would increase sales/profit. Due to its distrubution and storage, production costs (being next to nothing after it is made).
The issue is, if they do change the prices and it doesnt work out, then they are in a bit of a problem if they raise them again (would be a huge mess!)
So instead of taking the risk, all they can do now is increase the amount of sales that happen.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
The comparison to Neverwinter and the other offerings is flawed, as the other games offer subscription options and this game does not. As such it is unreasonable to expect them to charge similar rates for cash shop items as the other games as they are using a different market model than the other games.
I haven't played STO, but I know CO certainly does make money from subscriptions, due to the rather nice benefit of having freefrom characters on all slots of the account.
Grimah also had a solid point that it might not have been Cryptic's decision.
Still I did acknowledge that subscriptions are one revenue driver, as you have mentioned. What balances that to me is that STO and CO have a large number of Lifetime Subscribers, who made a one-time payment of either 199 (on sale) or 399 (full price) and never subbed again. Neverwinter has the 19, 59, and 199 packs, which in theory represent a lifetime sub (and hopefully more given I assume more packs will be released). This is enough for games like GuildWars, and I would not be surprised to find out that it makes NW more revenue than CO gets in their subscriptions.
I think the real difference is that STO and CO limit refined Astral equivalents to 8k/day while NW allows 24k/day. Of the three games it's easiest to get the resource in STO, but then STO went and made a massive sink in the fleets (equivalent of a guild). All three games allow you to exceed the limit using multiple characters, but that core refining limit seems to me to be the biggest difference.
Also, NW has the worst exchange rate (from Cryptic/PWI's point of view) of all three games. The make more zen sales the closer to 50 astrals/zen the exchange gets. And it's pretty clear the exchange has a LOT of volume.
My best guess is that because of the higher refining caps per day, and the exchange rate, Perfect World (possibly not cryptic) wanted higher prices.
I do still see it as a valid comparison given the size of the disparity in pricing. But I'm also very interested to see what happens as gold becomes a more usable commodity. Also, given time I expect more content to appear for free from events, new monster drops, new mechanics like the campaign, etc. NW is young still.
I've spent $20 once (purchased an entire armour set and jewellery for one character) and may do it again for a stone. Cannot justify the price of mounts though. My 2nd character will get no Zen to buy some decent gear, he's gonna bust a nut getting them or die trying. Likely die.
They are targeting my wallet.
Currently 100k for 1 coal ward due to the ability of folks getting them thru the 7 day reward.
Takes what 85 wards for 1 perfect? You have how many enchant slots?
Yea they are changing it. They are removing coal wards from the 7 day reward. Driving the price to ~400k. It only takes 15 now.
Woohoo?
Currently you would spend close to 100mil AD per character to make it the best.
Wait...you want to work on a second character? Maybe a 3rd? Good luck with it. They are going the route of Asian grindy games where you can bypass the 1 year grind with a big wad of cash.
I have no issue spending money on fluff...bag/bank/mounts etc.
Asking me to pay money to make my characters more powerful is P2W. The more they push me in the direction of must pay to keep up with the jones, the more my eye starts to wander to less grindy and costly games.
I will not be dropping a couple grand on this game like they want me too instead I will rather spend it on other things of more substance.
i would double-check your source of that information:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?532641-Cryptic-OFFICIAL-Feedback-Thread-The-Coffers-of-Wondrous-Augmentation
and pay to win arguments are against the forum rules of conduct.
Glad they are changing it.
Still does not address the 10% drop rate of the one item needed to advance your character via gear.
10% chance at 1 per week is 52 chances a year for 1 character. That is 5.2 coal wards per year. *Mind Explodes*
Ok lets open more char slots for more praying. You still need 15 wards per slot how many slots? 14? 14*15=210 wards.
210 wards times 100k = 21million AD per character. (current cost)
Hmmm maybe I will buy them...let us see...10 dollars x 210= 2,100 dollars for a component for enchanting for ONE character.
That is JUST for the coal wards needed for enchanting. Now how about adding in shard cost? Gear cost? nah...my calculator only goes sooooo many digits.
Math says much grinding in the future...unless you spend money.
I will acquiesce on mention of P2W as requested but the facts remain as facts.
You need coalescent wards for weapon and armor enchantments, exactly two slots per character. I think you have some other legitimate points, but your math is seriously flawed by your overestimation of the need for coal wards to fully kit out a character.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Fast forward to Neverwinter. I had mixed feelings about this being a Cryptic game. The story and gameplay aspects were on the plus side, and the store was on the bad side. However, the shock i had when I discovered just how badly they set up the store for Neverwinter was quite big. $35-$40 for a mount (granted account bound), $15-$30 for a companion/augment, $10 for a coal Ward.
Melodywhr is absolutely correct in saying the zen store is vanity. You do not need the store to even play the game.
But let's make a comparison.
I drive a lot. Not for work, but I'm in my car quite a bit, so i have the ability to go just about anywhere I want. Having the right to choose, I choose to buy clothes, toiletries, etc. from a place I can afford. Sure, i can go to Macy's, but why would I pay out the butt for something that is overcosted and, in my opinion, beyond my price range, when I can shop at places like Wal-Mart, TJMaxx, etc. that have clothes I can wear just as well and have the money left over so if I want to, i can go back and get more.
Let go of the saying less is more, unless you are referring to the fact that you will pay more for less in Neverwinter.
My version of "Less is More" comes from the standpoint of, if you are willing to provide an imaginary product at a more reasonable price, I'm more likely to be happy buying it, and consider using future money to buy more things, hence, you make more money from me by not trying to take it all from me now.
Now, I'm not poor by Neverwinter standards. I found a way to make the diamonds I need to, and have built up a decent sized fortune. I bought 4 character slots and paid the $60 to get another slot, along with an account-wide mount and companion, when Neverwinter first came out. I've bought a few game cards to add zen to the market, and in all spent about $120 since the game came out.
Current drop rate on Preview with the new changes is roughly 5% (after opening 1111 CoWAs) of C.wards and the new ones will be BoA as of current plans.
This is definitely a thread you'll be wanting to watch/participate in.
Please bear in mind this is still all on Preview. All of this information may be subject to change.
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Prices for C.wards could definitely be lowered, imo. But as others have pointed out, people view prices in entirely subjective ways. I learn towards thrifty by nature. Things like HumbleBundle are amazing for me XD.