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And the split widens....
pers3phone
Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
... among newer players and older regulars.
And there's nothing that helps the new guy.
I already know 4 persons that have 3 legendary artifacts on a few chars, or 5 epic companions. This comes on top of their full Rank 10 and Perfects chars, of course.
The legendary artifacts (but even the green ones...) have some extremely imbalanced effects that synergize with certain classes natural abilities to hide/regen, making them even more of a pain in a certain completely neglected sector of the game.
There should be PROGRESSION in an MMO. It should be reasonably SLOW, people should get their BiS gear half-way through the new content patch, not after just a few hours after new content hits.
0 progression in this game - you get all you want in a few hours.
Also... the newcomers got screwed badly - again. Nothing helps them, and they have to work now for:
- artifacts
- companions
... additionally from
- gear
- enchantments
Are you guys at Cryptic/PW this blind? How many more people have to point out that things can be done in an honorable manner, by honoring your paying customers with nice cosmetics, but without giving them any ingame advantages for a few months?
And there's nothing that helps the new guy.
I already know 4 persons that have 3 legendary artifacts on a few chars, or 5 epic companions. This comes on top of their full Rank 10 and Perfects chars, of course.
The legendary artifacts (but even the green ones...) have some extremely imbalanced effects that synergize with certain classes natural abilities to hide/regen, making them even more of a pain in a certain completely neglected sector of the game.
There should be PROGRESSION in an MMO. It should be reasonably SLOW, people should get their BiS gear half-way through the new content patch, not after just a few hours after new content hits.
0 progression in this game - you get all you want in a few hours.
Also... the newcomers got screwed badly - again. Nothing helps them, and they have to work now for:
- artifacts
- companions
... additionally from
- gear
- enchantments
Are you guys at Cryptic/PW this blind? How many more people have to point out that things can be done in an honorable manner, by honoring your paying customers with nice cosmetics, but without giving them any ingame advantages for a few months?
Post edited by pers3phone on
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Yes, players with top of the line gear and the skill/time/money required to get all that gear will get all the new stuff very quickly, because they are very, VERY keen players. Other players may take longer. There's nothing wrong with this.
If you replaced all these allegedly imbalancing artifacts etc with cosmetic stuff so the top-tier players wouldn't get an advantage, you'd remove the desire for ANYONE to actually get them. The top tier folks might or might not bother, since on the one hand it wouldn't confer an advantage, but on the other hand: new things to do. The lower, slower peeps? Why grind for days to get a cosmetic item?
Every game of this nature has an uneven distribution of skill, gear, and playtime. Some people can afford to spend 8 hours a day on the game, and 50 bucks a month. Others can maybe spare an hour or two a week, and no cash at all. The idea that these two groups should be "more even" is sorta anathema to the entire design principle, and is far more likely to alienate both groups than encourage them.
I think the argument is that if you already have top spec gear then getting the new stuff is pretty easy and quick, making you even more powerful than a fresh 60 in greens.
The new refining system for example seems to really put a block on getting your mid level enchants since going from a 5 to a 6 is going to cost you 25k for a mark of potency. This means that realistically you're going to have start using preservation wards for these levels of improvement. The net effect of this is that it's no longer enough to grind for level 4s, you now have to shell out a lot of AD too, which puts a huge break on your progress unless you spend zen...
Now, if you are talking about widening the gap between the new comers and top-notch players then I fully agree. However, the game isn't 'power play or no play'. A decent group of players can take it easy and still progress in a slower, steadier rate.
PvP is different, but really who cares about PvP right now.
You're wrong on almost all levels from my perspective, but I cannot argue against you because of forum rules.
I will say only that there are very successful online games that ONLY give cosmetics for money and they have a rabid following, and EVERYBODY works inside the game for items and power - and only time/skill makes the difference.
And yes, I'm simultaneously arguing that SOME people will get (already gotten in fact) he best items in the game in a few hours (because leveling interface and AH interface are slow...), while others, with the same amount of skill, will take months to reach the same level.
So equal skill, but somebody will have a significant advantage... while the other will not.
Only time and work spent inside the game should make a difference.
The conclusion is that new players should be helped to reach decent levels of power and catch up faster, instead of having an ever wider gap to cross.
(btw no, I cannot consider myself new or ungeared by now...)
Efficient, yes, but you will ALWAYS lose to the guy that has all 3 artifacts legendary now... on top of perfects&R10. Whatever we do, whatever our skils, the result will be the same.
And if we stop caring about PvP, we might as well seek another game I think. I know I personally PvE quite often, but you're a PvPer at heart and when you will stop caring, this game will no longer be enjoyable to you my friend...
Do you have to pay real money to access these items much faster? Yes.
Payers only have the time advantage, that's all. After a month or two payers and non-payers would be on the same gearing level.
Paying for convenience...every single F2P MMORPG works like that. That's how they make money. If they make payers only attain cosmetics by paying real money, then they wont make money as not much would want to spend $$ on cosmetic useless HAMSTER.
I understand your frustration. I'm an open beta player and just got my perfects yesterday while payers got them after playing for a few weeks. But this is how it works and i find it very fair IMO.
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Doesn't really bother me, though, Firstly, I mostly do PvE and I seem to be doing ok at that with the current stuff I have, and secondly when I DO PvP, it's really not hard to separate "losing to gear" from "losing to skill": if you're being instagibbed by a teneb-stacking dude, then..hey, let 'em have their fun (I guess they paid for it, right?). There aren't enough ludicrously overgeared players in the game to make them a real annoyance in PvP. If you get instagibbed by someone who just flat-out outplayed you, then...try to learn from it.
There are fights you're simply not going to win because you're massively outgeared. I just can't view "more things for top-tier dudes to have" as being any more fundamentally broken than it is already. I just view it as "yay more stuff to work toward".
There are a lot of games out there that don't have gear progressions like this, sure, but the majority of them that I've seen are shooters, which tend to be much more simplistic. The one exception that springs to mind is guild wars, and that was built from the bottom up to be about skill not gear (and, notably, ventured away from this over time anyway).
Now I can toss enchants into my existing enchants and (slowly) level some of them up - again, a way to improve, above and beyond the buffs, that I never thought I'd have, before. And heck, if I ever get better armor, I can always unslot and move the enchants (though I doubt I'd bother).
This is a HUGE AMOUNT of time advantage.
Cosmetics work. Please trust me, or just take a look Path of Exile's case. There are nothing but cosmetics in it, and the devs have a very healthy community and dedicated players, much more so than NWO by far. The biggest game advantage you can gain by paying is a bigger inventory.
PoE is also way more competitive than NWO and has all kinds of ladders.
So cosmetics work... very good I might say.
Pushing for more than cosmetics IMO is just greed.
The pay to accelerate model is working for NW, because it gets people that want the top gear, NOW, invest real money quickly, while it keeps players busy in order to achieve the same goal over a period of time.
I've come to the point where I know that completely ignoring r10s-perfect-triple epic artifact PvPer's is the best thing to do. I know that I'll lose to them and probably badly, but they are not the majority (especially if you log on during non-US peak times).
Cosmetics work, but unfortunately this isn't what we have here. What we have here is an amazing game with a huge drawback. There is no ranking system in PvP. I would suggest that you ignore PvP for a while and focus on having fun...probably join me for some random dungeon queues, since I have no idea about exploits/glitches and I have only done 3 of the t2 dungeons
Alone the skill tree in Path of exile... is like a dream come true. The fact that there isn't a p2w oriented cash shop, made PoE my favorite mmo/hack n' slash right away. Plus, there are almost no exploiters and the community is actually very friendly. (unlike in certain other mmo's...)
I agree with you.
Well that other MMO I've played was **** fair
No random dungeon queues though lol, been through that and it was a nightmare
Thank you for attesting that it is possible to earn money the honorable way...
Also the nerf to Shard XP value really screwed over many players that planned for this upgrade and they won't get as many levels. While others that stocked up on other type of fodder are having no problems making all rank 10's and Legendary Artifacts. The new system only creates a larger gap for the new players and hunters. While the players with large bank rolls and planned ahead are already set.
This is nothing new in MMOs. So do not get upset because a player that's been playing for 60 days should not have the same amount of gear as a player that's been playing for 200+ days.
Because gear is a rat race. The reference 11-million-player MMO got to the points where chars now deliver gazillions of damage and the numbers are getting too large for the servers to handle them. If cosmetics is all you get for you grind/dollars, then skill prevails, not gear.
I know very well the limits of farming, I farmed my Rank 8s and Perfect Vorpal/Greater SF etc. without a single penny. Farming opportunities are however getting reduced from patch to patch (new "improved" CN anyone? Bound wards? Bound gear?).
The vast majority of players that already get legendary artifacts and all 10s and perfects got them because they paid for Zen, exchanged to AD, and bought lots of cheap enchants off the AH. I know this for a fact, because most people I know at this level of gear NEVER, EVER farm or even touch PvE, and some didn't have armies or invoking chars. They just buy their way into pro as it becomes available. Progress should be from skills INSIDE the game, not from money.
The new players should be HELPED to reach pro levels faster, and the already pro should face harder challenges to improve.
The gap is very significant because you end up in PvP against all r10s/legendary people, IN A DARNED PREMADE as well... while you pug.
There's no proper gear progression in this game. No true gear tiers that get progressively better, actually the last 2 CW sets are arguably way worse then HV - even after nerf.
I personally don;t want anything handed out freely to me.
As for stretching out gameplay, yes, they do that. Is the cheapest&lamest solution ever. Stretch gameplay with more dungeons, better make some raids, and true boss mechanics, not this red zone/more adds we have now.
But the real issue here is that at the start, people had it EASIER, while now things are messed up badly for new players especially, because I can go in with my gear (that I got before "fixes") and still kill mostly anything.
But new players cannot. They need to invest a HUGE amount of time, or open their wallet big time. This is what this topic is about. The game is superunfair to any newbie.
- if you don't like it single player games are that way ---->
Really?
I will surely obey your suggestion... not.
Now come with some real arguments
Is that truly so hard to achieve? Is this so much to ask?
What else should I expect?
- there are no raids
- there are no ladders for PvP
- there is no dual spec
- the foundry is useless as it is not used to its real capabilities
- everything meaningful is gated behind months of brainless farming
- there is only the enjoyable action-combat system
But how long can we go like this?
The players at the top won't mind this, but the new players will be working harder than the top players did and we all know this. I am not saying everyone done this, but the players that benefited from exploits and BoE (which equates to AD on the AH) and fusing had an easier time leveling than the new players coming in.
Fact: These people are either; A. Cheaters or B. p2w
By cheaters I of course mean exploiting or using bugs/glitches to make it easier in any way.
By p2w I of course mean that they pay real money to advance quicker in the game.
I almost have one artifact at lvl 60 and my other (only have 2) at lvl 29! ~This is what you have if you play a "normal" amount of NW since module 2 came out. IMO, ofc.
It's free to play, we have to understand that. But this game takes it too far, and it will lead to its own death because of it.
Funny how I, a regular little boy can understand this simple thing, but Cryptic & CO who made this game, can not? Hmmh
This is only a problem if what you really care the most about is winning, though. And if that's the case..maybe cough up some money?
If all you want to do is play, then more content = more stuff to play (and still for free! ZOMG)
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
As for Artifacts, getting 2 artifacts on each L 60 char is pretty easy. One from a quest, and one from PVP. Ok...some people despise PVP...but at least you know you are constantly working towards the purchase price, not praying for a 1% drop that you win the roll on. Anyway, for me the problem is that going from green to blue requires 4 Marks...2 of which are apparently harder to get than Epic Marks. I can't even imagine the cost to to purple and orange. I don't want things to be given to me, but this seems like a pretty high barrier.
- JailBreak (in development)
BTW don't turn this into a P2W discussion, it will get the topic closed.
The topic is PURELY about how the new players are at a huge unfair disadvantage and there's nothing to help them.