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PvP - A Guide To Quitting
drscone
Member Posts: 309 Arc User
To quit or not to quit, that is the question. This post will give you the answer 
NW PvP is the first game I've played when I've started consistently quitting and I've been playing online FPSes since the internet was invented, so I wondered why this was. I think it comes down to how unenjoyable it is when you're playing 4v5 or 3v5. Once someone has quit, it isn't possible for someone else to join, so you're stuck. This gives a greater incentive for someone else to leave and then it really becomes pointless.
1v1 is ok, but I'm in the UK and ping issues generally mean I lose the jump to the first encounter vs another CW. vs other classes it's just not as much fun as fighting in a team over a point. For me anyway. Really good 5v5 games are some of the best and most exciting PvP experiences I've had and that makes the bad games seem that much worse.
So here are my 'rules' :
If the game is 5v5, don't quit. Even if you're getting humped by a premade. If no-one else on your side has quit, you're ruining the game for 9 other people by leaving. I appreciate that there are people out there that don't give a stuff about the other 9, but I assume you're beyond help anyway
If the game is 5v4 and you're actually capping the odd point, playing ok as a team, getting the odd kill, stick it out. Once in a blue moon the guy that left miraculously rejoins. Sometimes it really is a network issue. If you're not enjoying it, no-one will criticize you for leaving.
5v3, just get out of there and find a better game.
So until they fix the matchmaking, don't feel bad about leaving a game. Unless you're the first to do so ofc.
NW PvP is the first game I've played when I've started consistently quitting and I've been playing online FPSes since the internet was invented, so I wondered why this was. I think it comes down to how unenjoyable it is when you're playing 4v5 or 3v5. Once someone has quit, it isn't possible for someone else to join, so you're stuck. This gives a greater incentive for someone else to leave and then it really becomes pointless.
1v1 is ok, but I'm in the UK and ping issues generally mean I lose the jump to the first encounter vs another CW. vs other classes it's just not as much fun as fighting in a team over a point. For me anyway. Really good 5v5 games are some of the best and most exciting PvP experiences I've had and that makes the bad games seem that much worse.
So here are my 'rules' :
If the game is 5v5, don't quit. Even if you're getting humped by a premade. If no-one else on your side has quit, you're ruining the game for 9 other people by leaving. I appreciate that there are people out there that don't give a stuff about the other 9, but I assume you're beyond help anyway
If the game is 5v4 and you're actually capping the odd point, playing ok as a team, getting the odd kill, stick it out. Once in a blue moon the guy that left miraculously rejoins. Sometimes it really is a network issue. If you're not enjoying it, no-one will criticize you for leaving.
5v3, just get out of there and find a better game.
So until they fix the matchmaking, don't feel bad about leaving a game. Unless you're the first to do so ofc.
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
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NEVER QUIT!!!
NEVER SURRENDER!!!
Don't care if I have to sit at the campfire, honestly.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Learn to communicate, and form some strategies with the team. Don't get discourage if you die in the first minute, it was most likely due to bad communication/strategy, eg 2 of you run to point no.2 and get crushed by 5 of the opposite team at the start of a match.
If you're losing very badly, try a different strategy, you can either split them up, or focus on 1 person to take down first. Just remember to fight on point, chasing someone that's about to die isn't a very smart thing to do when you can stay and cap that point first.
There will be matches where you can't do anything, and constantly get crushed the moment you step out of the campfire. Switch on zone chat /zone, or /say and ask for some 1v1 to practice, most premades will offer that while they're waiting for the score to go from 400-0 to 1000-0.
What's different between sitting in the campfire and quitting?
5v5 - Never quit, especially if it's an organized match.
5v2,3,4 + pugs - Depends on the game. If our partial pre at least has a shot to beat the full pre, we'll stick it out. Some of my favorite close matches have been of this variety. If there is absolutely no chance to win (usually because the pugs are terrible), quit.
Full Pre vs Solo Queue - Examine gear of group. If two or more have no weapon/armor enchant or sub-par stats, I'll just quit and find another game. Assuming they pass that check, it depends on the group's willingness to play as a team. Is there focus fire, do people peel to take care of home/far point if it is contested, protect the DC (I might be biased on this one!), etc?
Solo Queue vs Another pug or small partial premade - Examine gear of group. If three or more have no weapon/armor enchant or sub-par stats, I'll just quit and find another game. There are a few other cases where I might quit ex: the other 4 fight a single sentinel at home point, fight off point, etc).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's even more fun catching them 1 by 1 when they're already relaxed and then listening to their grumbling "U fk permastealth rogue i pwn you".
Can't say same for the other classes though. But I remember I had one CW with me and we just literally pwnd them in 2 vs 4 fight by running across the map
WTB Class Reroll please
I insist that 5 people is a very low number for non-arena like PvP. Bigger maps with more nodes and a bigger number of participants are needed in order for the current queueing system to work. Now, if two guys drop, there's practically no chance in even getting close to winning or keeping a close lead until they are replaced.
5 vs. 4's can be fun when it's PUG vs. PUG, and you're on the side with only 4 members. When your teammates are doing their best to do their parts (holding nodes, preventing caps), it drives you to do even better, and it's still possible to win those types of matches which can feel really rewarding. 5 vs. 3 is often a lost cause unless everyone in the team is running high-end defensive PVP specs.
I used to never leave, ever. I still always stay at 5v5, even vs a premade - so what if they are one? They're not all uber well equipped or skilled and once in a while we'll win - did so yesterday vs a decent premade. We just happened to have a good side too and it was fun.
Once the game is no longer 5v5 Domination then it's NOT what I queued for.
1) vs premade - obv never quit. The only time this is acceptable is if your trying to matchup against another premade who you are organizing a pre-arranged match. Then if you accidently get another premade, its ok to leave.
2) PUG: NEVER leave. Im sorry but if a premade leaves against a pug for no reason, just bad....
Premade (<5man) Que:
1) Vs Premade - depends on the number/quality of PUGs. If its 2 pugs with no gear and a good premade, leave. If its a decent pug with some enchants, Ill usually stay.
2) Vs PUG - almost always stay unless bag PUGs versus good players or partial premade.
Solo Que:
1) vs Premade - depends on the premade, if they are a known excellent pvp guild ill almost never stay.
2) vs PUG - always stay unless a teammate leaves then no point in staying...
even with the penalty system people would STILL leave, just google how many people hate that system.
now I don't disagree with anything you've said, I completely agree with these rules of leaving a match.
I think the problem lies with the community at this point since cryptic left us to dry.
people that queue as premades are completely oblivious how badly they hurt the pvp scene. the other day I ran into a known guild running 4TR comp, I msged the guy after game and told him how lame it was and his reply was "these were the only players online" ......<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> facepalm man.
the term queuesnipe was used after I figured you can look at players location and time their next queue in between games, to show them a lesson and stop terrorizing pugs, every time the game would end I'd msg them something along the lines "now you know how it feels on the receiving end".
After the servers merged seeing premades is a more common thing once again, even my own guild does it so who cares at this point.
I just keep remembering when I started playing it was so much more fun and challenging solo queuing trying new things but the more I play I realize people are really afraid of leaving their comfort zone.
So yeah, as a pug if you do get overwhelmed by a premade nothing wrong with leaving.
- If you are having fun - stay
- If you aren't having fun - quit
It's a game, you are playing to have fun.
You can make the argument that leaving is inconsiderate because you can cause others to not have fun. But it's just as inconsiderate for them to expect you to stay when you aren't having fun. Not to mention that more than likely most of your team wants to quit as well and are just waiting for the first to go.
Situation. I will stay in a match, offer a good game, even give the opponent a one on one if there are less than three players on my team. If we're still fighting for it with three players, I'll keep fighting for it. More than once I was already over halfway through a match before realizing it was only a 3v5.
If I get double-teamed on a 1v1, or we're spawn camped, etc ... I'll just stick by the fire. A player who is overly insulting, or certain irresponsible guilds I've played again, will also push me to stick by the fire if the match goes poorly.
Honestly, I think I'd rather make them wait out the match in those cases. And personally, I just have a pet peeve against quitting a match when there is a possibility that fourth guy will log back in, or two on their team will DC.
If it's just 1v5? Yeah, I'll stay. And usually, have a good chat for 10 minutes.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Until Cryptic fixes a queue system, I suggest all hardcore PvP guilds to enter individually, rather than a team....unless they have a PMvsPM thing going on.
My main gripe is when the opposing team knows your team left and proceed to bend you over as a pack of wild dogs as you try and salvage at least enough points to gain glory.
You ask for a 1v1 and half of their team either doesn't speak English is just being douchy and kills you.
I don't ever leave even if I'm the last one. I try and catch them 1v1 or 2v1 and hurt them where I can.
Understood, but it's effectively quitting as well. Most of the people don't see it that way, and they re-queue in order to get into a more interesting game. I can understand both sides of the coin.
I am just saying that I am willing to stay the full duration in a match that I keep dying, if it's close (being DC in PuGs gets me in the target more often than not) and if I see people trying to win or at least compete. If I see no response from my team-mates and they start dropping , I find that losing my time isn't really worth it.
Things changed and nowadays I usually stay even alone in the match, even against a PM and even against guys that are intent on farming me. I do 1 vs 1 every opportunity against much better adversaries regardless the outcome, it's an opportunity to learn and meet people, but now in most cases I stand some chance (nah, I still won't best good TRs or GWFs with tenes and so on).
However, it still happens that I might leave, but this is invariably because of my own team, not the others.
Things that make me leave (not always):
- 4 people capping home at start
- people leaving fight at mid to come "help" me capping a point where I'm alone watching the view without any enemies around
- GWFs and TRs that don't want to backcap even when explained what that is and I have to go myself as a CW and get squashed in 3 seconds
In all of these cases I will still stay in the match if there are people I know and respect on the other team or in my team.
Anyway quitting in this game is purely a symptom, it's not the "disease" itself. The disease is the lack of matchmaking and ladders and rankings. Fix these, apply penalty for leaving, quitting will go away.
Yeah overall this is good advice except that you play pvp to play with friends and it sucks that because of the current position pvp is in, you cant do that to get fun matches.
I also see nothing wrong with 2-3 premades, however, I really hate leaving when up against a full premade just because we didnt que as a 4-5 man group as well....
Im really discouraged how long this has gone on without any discussion from the DEVs. I know there was mention in the past about post Mod 2 the prospect of pvp content and even AV himself has been quoted a few times saying new pvp content is on the way but its VERY clear that pvp in this game will not change anytime soon and is not a priority.
Its a HUGE shame they dont utilize foundry for pvp purposes. That would open up ALOT of avenues for pvp. Not exactly sure how they would implement this the best, but the possibilities are endless....
True. If they keep PvP battles in such a small scale and with that particular goal (capture points) then a slight imbalance is very hard to overcome. Imagine a 4v5 or even worse a 3v5. If players are of the same skill it's almost impossible to win.
The DEVs won't respond, because PvP is a huge bet. The moment they announce that they will be seeing to it, the attention will suddenly turn there. NW's huge advantage to other MMOs is the amazing combat system that feels more arcad-y than most MMOs. So, if they focus on PvP they need to nail it, which means tons of commitment and testing.
Imagine that this is a less than a year title, with clear focus on PvE, and still the complaints for class imbalance and enchants being overpowered have filled the place. None of those complaints regard PvE.
llantiss - apologies for not making my point well - quitting is a big issue in nearly every game I've ever played. I'm not aware of a solution that's universally loved with the complaints always coming down to the inadequacy of the match making system. Community solutions tend to be the best, with games like Quake spawning pick up games, organized on IRC. This only works if you control the servers and queue yourself, which is not possible on NW at the moment.
Quitting is just not been something that I've tended to do myself in other games.
I suppose that a penalty of some sort for being the first to leave a game would at least provide an ounce of bitter satisfaction... As we've all said many times, any kind of matchmaking is better than the current situation.
I agree with this 100%. I always solo queue, sometimes I get a good team, sometimes I get a horrible team. But either way, for me it boils down to the players themselves in terms of how much fun I have during the match.
Last night I finally got to experience something I thought impossible in PvP. At around 300 points for my team the other team started leaving until there was only a lone DC left. After seeing that I stated in zone chat that it was 5v1 and I see no reason to continue fighting and would be sitting out the rest of the match. Which at that point 3 of my team left for some reason making it a 2v1 match with about 500 points to go.
So at that point I asked the cleric (in zone chat) if he would rather do 1v1 or capture points. He said points and so we let him take a point then we'd take it back (without killing him) until the end of the match. It was truly a special moment to see everyone walk away from a match gone bad with the most points they could get.
And the point of that story is, sure I would rather have a tight fight to the finish of 5v5 with 1 team winning or losing by 1 point but when that cant happen, I'd rather have players work together to make the best of a bad situation. What is not fun is when its 5v1,2,3 and the other team acts like a bunch ******bags by camping the spawn point and ganking anyone dumb enough to leave the campfire.
Yes, once in a blue moon you get someone trying to be cool and offering the obligatory 1v1 but more often then not it ends one of two ways. Either you get killed trying to get to the 1v1 for which you get the ol' "I told them not to kill you, try again they wont kill you this time" or if you get to the 1v1 and win, you get killed after its over. So either way, for my good sportsmanship it ends the same way for me, laying face down wondering why I fell for this trick again.
So next anyone wants to criticize someone for leaving a match, just remember, it might be your poor sportsmanship the is the root cause.
P.S. That's not to say that there wont still be some players that will quit just because the match doesn't look like it will be a simple and fast match for them. For those players, there isn't really anything you can do aside from giving them a baby bottle, pat them on the head and say "it'll be ok".
2) In a premade that is with some awesome players but are going up against a premade that has r10 and perfects...leave. No matter what you think...gear trumps skill.
3) You ask for 1 v 1 vs a premade (and are getting stomped...I.E. 600-70) but go up against the egotistical premade that can only 4 v 1 ...leave.
Pretty much sums up NW PVP.
What do you mean universally loved? you said it yourself, if it comes from the community it will get the support it needs.
with the amount of suggestions and feedback circulating just from this subforum alone you can make a new game from the ground up, problem is no one listens.
I've been on IRC, I watched #ctfpickup channels evolve and even designed a cod4 gather bot with integrated matchmaking through IRC, for example cod4 vanilla you could pick any weapon you want similar to how you can queue with any class you want in this game, but the community provided the tools to limit 1 sniper per team just like in this community the premade guilds set a standard to pvp with rainbow composition.
the difference is back then the community had a say, they had tools and they could implement their solutions, which means the solutions were FORCED BY THE GAME, here on the other hand nothing stops you from abusing the system and the endless pvp feedback threads are lined up against a massive wall of no one gives a fk.
btw shoutouts to your avatar, hope you know next week is dreamhack quakelive, gonna be hype!
This is a very good post and coming from a very experienced PvPer it holds even more weight, deserves a full quoting. These days actually I pugged a game and Hzarn and Proxy were in the other team, it actually ended up quite fun even if we lost. Going full pre on pugs is demoralizing and destroys their will to queue again.
1.If u are in a 5v5 u should never quit.
2.If your team has 3 members with sub 10k gs and no or low rank enchant.
3.In a losing game one of your team mate quit and u are solo queue, and the enemy have a 2 man or more premade, most likely u would not win the game otherwise ur team mate would not quit at the first place.
4.Enemy team simply run a disgusting team such as 3DC 2GWF, 5 gwf, 3TR etc. They are mostly likely decent geared and skilled, no point fighting tham as a pug if your team are not filled with 2 or more legit PVP players.
5.Your teammate simply don't fight at point and walk right pass home when a TR is actually capping the point in their face. Pretty much all things that indicate the lack of ability and knowledge of PVP in this game.
6.When u try to give out legit and helpful advice and your teammate tell u to shut it. Do noted make sure u are a good player urself first, if u don't always do 5 man premade or in some known PVP guild then u most likely are not a good one. Even if u are in one and do premade there are still chance u are not that great, but still if your teammate cannot understand simple idea like capping point and focus that cw with 10% helath then just quit.
7. A golden one, put people u run into that are bad ( skill wise or attitude wise) into your ignore list, so next time when u are assigned with them on the same team u know, and when that happens hit quit plz
Last just want to point out there should be no shame of leaving a match because the match making system is completely broken. If anyone disagree plz come do a premade with me and my friends, we gonna send 3 people to just hunt u down and u have to be alone and try to cap points, so u get the feeling of how it is like in a losing game in general. I doubt anyone would find it enjoyable.
PvP is everchanging and always interesting if it's done right. If you check the most successful games out there, they did it through their PvP scene and not their PvE.
Things never heard in a D&D game:
Player 1: We have to help the elves defeat King Malabog and take back Sharandar!
Player 2: Screw the elves, let's just fight each other.