And another non- TR player chiming in forums and acting like a hero and savior of the NW PvP balance without running any tests...
Please run some tests, post some numbers, and get some data before "claiming" that something is OP or need to be addressed and wasting everyone's time reading it.
You didn't even bother to check the range of that skill..
I honestly get the feeling some of the forum comments and generalisations regarding the performance of the Whisperknife Paragon are more armchair theoretical than practical testing. So far it seems underwhelming but I am keen to see what some of the more seasoned TR build makers can crank out of this path.
The feats boosting Encounters or at-will power contributions to DPS are in the second tier of the respective paragon paths so at most you can dabble in one other than your primary choice. No new feats boost the length of stealth so those trying to optimise a perma- stealth Rogue will likely need to take Dazzling Blades and consume two of the three encounter slots just on SS and BnS to extend stealth. As a comparison I can use a Scavenger's set and Shadow Strike alone to maintain perma-stealth with Gloaming Cut feats without investing in extreme Recovery or Intellect. Not so with Whisperknife.
Has anyone managed a high DPS perma stealth build variant in their testing as yet please?
I feel pretty much the same way. I have tested out them multiple times now trying to get something that works. Honestly though it just feels really slow. Doing dailies with the old build compared to the new one is night and day. I can't see why anyone would pick it as is over another variation. I am looking forward to the encounter changes but the at will is kinda getting me hung up. I don't know whether to advise them to speed it up and risk it being OP or to add more damage to the current speed. Either way it just doesn't seem to work. On a very minor note, the animation kinda gets annoying seems like it is better suited to an encounter.
Interested to see as well if anyone has come up with a build that they like with the new path. Willing to try it out.
2- When i said " range" i mean't checking its "full potential" with range ( aka with the new Class feature that increases your daggers damage if you are 20' from the target).
My feedback is based on PvE and not even bothering to attempt permastealth. My play of the TR has them routinely stealthed but nothing even close to permastealth. I have no feats to buff stealth amount, 20Str, 27 Dex, 16 Cha, and no t1 gear yet for my newly 60 TR. I'm not interested in PvP and could be described as a "casual" gamer (though my NWO time investment is anything but casual),
Feedback: Vengeances’ Pursuit: Damage was good especially when you can get it all to work.
Problems;
1) Using the RA from stealth emptied my stealth bar.
2) If you kill the target with the RA the second half of the power doesn't work.
Would love it to be a single push power that was RA then move to target position and do the burst MA. Then when stealthed it could add the effects (slowed etc).
Feedback: Disheartening Strike: Still too slow. Take away the DoT and speed the animation up then tweak the damage so its performing as expected. It should still produce less damage quickly than Cloud of Steel but have the advantage of infinite charges.
Feedback: Hateful Knives: Its just bad. It neither does sufficient single target damage nor imposes sufficient conditions to make it worth a point. Even with the Feat to boost it it remained bad.
Feedback: Dagger Threat: Happy with this, but clearer language about what the benefits it gives would help. (This is true of many class features not just this one.)
Feedback: Razor Action: Does this even work?
I'll test some more but it just didn't seem to do anything, even with the feat boosting it.
Feedback: Advantageous Position: This seems OK. However with a ranged based character the advantage of it seems questionable as it can be lost before the enemy reaches you. Perhaps a longer duration?
Feedback: Distracting Knife: I try to avoid feats that lock you into a power and this one was not worth the investment. Perhaps if Disheartening got faster and was just plain damage a feat that would boost it by adding effects would be good.
(Problem now is you might use Disheartening 1x maybe 2x in while soloing normal content, so feats that boost it are only for a situational power; by and large you are always better with Cloud.)
Feedback: Seething Knives: No appreciable effect even at 5/5. I also misread the effect it has on Razor which would have made it worth it (making Razor always on not just after daily but as a dot effect).
Feedback: Determined Pursuit: If it just interrupted it would be worth taking, but a chance to do something that is situational anyway (seeing the associated power is best as an opening salvo anyway) doesn't seem like its worth a feat.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
As it stands, WK path feels very encumber-some, and in ways like more of a punishment for speccing into it than much else. The wording on the skills is terrible, and highly ambiguous. 2 - 2.5 of the items in the path feel of any worth, Disen-Strike is decent for PvE, but very situational in the fact that you have to keep it going in order to really benefit from it, which requires you are always within 40' of the Boss..... I can already see this getting a massive nerf very soon due to all the Stealth exploiters & Scripties who can remain hidden at all times without SS/BnS. Though the Stealth reveal ability/s of an Artifact and Companion (along with who knows what else) when this goes live will be definite game changers for the Rogue class legitimate players.
Hopefully this is a bug, but Bloodbathhas been getting interrupted allot on Test/Preview server
This is in Full Fey Epic, with Elven Ferocity boon, lesser Tenes and only sub 24k HP. One cast per training Dummy, one from Stealth, and one from base.
While Stealthed: Single cast nearing 47.2k dmg total, about on par with dmg from comparable Wiz skills, but without anywhere near the range
Quote:
= [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Disheartening Strike deals 2383 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Elven Ferocity deals 548 Arcane to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 240 Necrotic to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Disheartening Strike deals 2383 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Disheartening Strike deals 2383 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 240 Necrotic to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1558 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Disheartening Strike deals 2383 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Disheartening Strike deals 2383 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1558 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Disheartening Strike deals 2383 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1558 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1558 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1558 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 240 Necrotic to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 240 Necrotic to Target Dummy.
From Non-Stealthed stance: Single cast
Quote:
= [Combat (Self)] Your Disheartening Strike deals 978 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Elven Ferocity deals 455 Arcane to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Disheartening Strike deals 978 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Disheartening Strike deals 978 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 240 Necrotic to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1295 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Disheartening Strike deals 978 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Disheartening Strike deals 978 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1295 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Disheartening Strike deals 978 Physical to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1295 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1295 Poison to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 240 Necrotic to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Master Poisoner deals 1295 Poison to Target Dummy.
This skill has only a 40' range, it casts once per second, is about as slow as Gloaming Cut, but mix this with Fey set, higher end Tenebrous, Fey Arcane Procs, Shadow Touch, Endless Consumption, high end Life Steal, and Path of Blade.... It'll become a hefty annoyance.
The above Tenebrous procs you see are for Lesser Tene Enchantments, and I only have 23, 980 HP
The skill has great potential, but could really use reworking. The animation is ridiculous, the sound is recycled and tweaked Gloaming Cut. With removal of ItC for this path, such skills should in my opinion not be forcing the player to become more stationary, but instead allow for more mobility. It does not need to be cast-able while moving, or jumping and so on, but a shorter cast time would be very beneficial, and serve to make this skill far more attractive. It could be a great PvE/Boss skill, but you have to weave, or stay within 40' range, or + feat... a 20' range...... Such slow cast times are death in that range. (BUT) on the other hand, it will easily become quite the long term hidden PvP go to = which will get it drastically nerfed very soon after this all goes live. Balance things out differently between PvE & PvP, and you'll find far less such issues.
With the loss of Impossible to catch in new paragon path, disheartning should be required or no defense no damage...u know how important and useful impossible to catch is right?
And as for perma stealths, there is no shadow strike so no perma stealth with disheartening,,,,u didnot know this?? :O Looks like u were lying about having a rogue...or just not ur main...
ItC point true.
No Shadow Strike? Wrong.
I would say get rid of Shadow Strike, and give ItC back. That would make this path far more attractive, and a bit less exploitable.
It was already confirmed that theres nothing to fix. The way it is now is intended. It would be too powerful if it critical striked AND was affected by weapon enchants. Which I agree with.
No. See my bug report thread here: Possible bug with Path of the Blade-skill. Panderus said it's supposed to crit. But you're right with that it would be too powerful if they just "fixed" it right away and didn't adjust the damage or anything. They are working on it but it wont see a fix soon because of all the more important stuff on their desk right now.
No. See my bug report thread here: Possible bug with Path of the Blade-skill. Panderus said it's supposed to crit. But you're right with that it would be too powerful if they just "fixed" it right away and didn't adjust the damage or anything. They are working on it but it wont see a fix soon because of all the more important stuff on their desk right now.
This situation is not evenly spread. A couple of CW skills which could not previous crit can now do so in Module 2, these now do significantly more damage without any adjustment otherwise. Some also now have armorpen factored in now. All of these were intended to but were simply fixed without the "too op" parse required for the above TR PotB fix.
Awesome. New and improved Whisperknife Encounter in the preview! Will be sure to give it a test run this coming weekend. With the new improvements perhaps we may see some more people using this skill since VP now breaks CC. Nothing grand like ITC, but it has some nice utility to it. Not something to use in PVE though. Would be great if it stunned the "primary target" for 1 second and dealt AoE even when used from Stealth.
Seems someone forgot to mention that Daily skill Hateful Knives (not in tool-tip) replenishes a good deal of Stealth bar, and reduces wear down time of Stealth meter while not dropping player from stealth upon use, and actually builds stealth meter for a few seconds. Adding yet another skill to the repertoire of skills/feats/features the Rogue class has to keep them hidden even longer.
From test: From one Stealth "tab" click.
Encounter Skills: Shadow Strike, BnS, Vegeance's Persuit
Featues: Razor Action, Tactics
At-Wills: Duelist's Flurry, Disheartening Strike.
Daily: Hateful Knives
Gear: Full Fey
Recovery: Only 1285
I can now use these skills, to remain hidden through a full two cycles of building A.P for Daily (meaning done the right *or wrong* way, a player can now keep this cycle going indefinitely), since Stealth meter can now be set up to actually increase stealth meter amount as you do damage, one can effectively set them selves up to remain hidden indefinitely while continuously dealing damage. In effect, Rogue class now has two (where Stealth is concerned) versions of Lurker's Assault. While I really enjoy my Rogue, this as far as remaining hidden is concerned, needs to be reworked. You guys already have players who can exploit Stealth, and some can remain hidden for brash periods of time just by increasing certain stats. While others are using exploits, and Script Engines, this is just serving to make it even easier, to remain hidden longer, and be able to deal out far more damage while hidden.
Some things are meant to remain lost.
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thuldyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Seems someone forgot to mention that Daily skill Hateful Knives (not in tool-tip) replenishes a good deal of Stealth bar, and reduces wear down time of Stealth meter while not dropping player from stealth upon use, and actually builds stealth meter for a few seconds. .
It looks like you have overlooked the actual feat that is doing this djarad. Seething Knives is a second tier in the Scoundrel path which means you needed to give up 10 points to get it in full from otherwise dps skills. I tried this earlier but I am also keen to see just how much DPS you could sustainably put out using these skills and feats to maintain stealth with your level of gearing.
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yogokouMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
You can remain stealthed for two full rotations of building AP and replenish stealth with Lurker's, then repeat, as it is now on live. You don't even need to slot Tactics to do it, skillful+invisible infiltrator are enough, and don't even need to slot AP gaining feats if your damage is good. And with worse gear than fey. So this is nothing new (not talking about Gloaming Cut+feat).
Can't post the full log here due to character input limitations, already PM'd Combat lead asking for an email I can send the log to. Point is not that you can suddenly do this sort of thing, as some assumed, but that they have now added another way to do it, last longer, and do substantially more damage while doing it. Addition of Disheartening Knives ensure that you are not losing any DPS, you are in fact adding a great deal, stacked with Duelist's, the damage total from those two alone is very high.
One of the supposed reasons Rogue class got that recent big nerf, was due to ppl being able to remain stealthed soloing many dungeon bosses. Yes, they made it more difficult, and yes they have gone a full 180 on that with the new path capabilities, with which, so far on my test char, HK has been lasting longer than LA.
After the last batch of nerfs due to a similar issue, this is setting the class up for another string of the same. Best to address any such concerns before it all goes live.
As interesting as the new path is, it's all too glaringly obvious that if it goes live as it is, my main's class will get another ticket on the nerf train.
Some things are meant to remain lost.
0
thuldyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited November 2013
A real pity we cannot see your concerns first hand djarud as it does not seem to work the same for me. It may be a combination of much lesser gear and a latency ping exceeding 400ms but I do not seem to have the same experience as you are describing. When I try to emulate your loadout of post #78 the AP gain is less than the expenditure even against a target dummy. Fighting against the DF final phase animation lockout to weave SS and BnS means their full CD is used slightly prematurely and partially ineffective depending on where they fall in the rotation timing. Even spamming DK on a rotation against 3 targets to milk the AP return from the initial tick does not greatly increase the positive AP income enough.
I attempted to offset the ping losses using Scavenger's set and found with a Recovery of only 963 it was unimpressive and unable to become sustainable.
Hardly likely many TRs will want to see a Paragon that promises significant stealth, range AND high DPS; only to have it nerfed after folk consume their Spec change token (if we get one).
Again I say it appears much much easier to maintain perma stealth with the existing Paragon tree (Gloaming Cut + feats etc) than trying to make this Daggers ranged+ Paragon fit into that mould. Bosses can already be soloed using that approach (if you don't fall asleep at the keyboard waiting for them to finally die) so I cannot yet see the same imminent problems you are describing.
Perhaps a link to a youtube of what you are seeing, the sustainability stealth cycle against a boss, and the combat logs will help illustrate your "all too glaringly obvious" issue with the Paragon to the Devs? Other folk may already have done something similar and be willing to share concerns of an unbalanced tree?
This is kinda on topic. Saw the new paragon video. The TR used was getting 4K plus damage from the at will's initial strike. I haven't tested with the newest patch but the old one had me critting for 2kish. Can anyone confirm what damage they are seeing with the at will? Initial strike and dot if you can.
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
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yogokouMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
I will try to get some numbers with my perm-stealth rogue, I'm not as well geared but with 2.2k recovery etc I expect to be able to pull it off with no problems. Will gradually drop recovery to see what's the minimum I can get away with. But I don't think I'll be able to do that before the end of week.
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yogokouMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
I couldn't keep it up with less than 1950 recovery (12,5k GS, 8850 attack, no AP gaining feats.). With my current spec on live I can keep stealth up with ~1400k recovery (and 11,5 GS) for comparison (battlefield skulker in both cases).
@iweldar I keep getting the same numbers, a bit below 2k for a crit. 850-950 non crit. Just as previous patch.
After a lot of messing around and some major respecing I think I finally got my TR where I am happy with it using the Whisperknife PP.
I went Saboteur with Distracting Knife at 5/5 and used either Sneak Attack/Tenacious Concealment or Dagger Threat/Advantageous Position as passives.
With Path of the Blade, Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike as encounters and Disheartening Strike and Cloud of Steel as at-will I was able to keep stealth up very consistently allowing Advantageous to cover those brief periods of no stealth with CA just fine. (Those brief periods are probably easily eliminated by more experienced TR players however.)
I would have to run a lot more tests to be sure about ArP etc but the feats/powers seem to be having the desired effects.
Feedback: Vengeance's Pursuit TBH Damage seems a little low on this power for largely single target DPS. Though when breaking control matters that is probably more than enough to make up for the limited damage (after all if you are not controlled you can be damaging stuff).
At the end of the attack from out of stealth there is a strange little extra animation, like an over excited version of the TR's usual "I've just killed stuff" bounce.
It remains an annoying power to use, with a relatively long wait (about 1s) between activations required instead of being able to just double tap the key and run both halves if you want.
Bug: Vengeance's Pursuit vs Bait and Switch Bait and Switch Dummy blocks LoS for Vengeance's Pursuit.
Feedback: Razor Action At 3/3 for me this reports around 460 points of damage on average for the initial attack and around 35x3 for the DoT. These numbers are not affected by the feats (ie stealth & CA damage bonuses) or Dagger Threat or Lurker's Assault (the daily I was triggering with). Not sure if this is intended or a bug, but I presume attended. Without something else this just pointless to run still, it could be a lot of "surprise" damage several times in a fight (depending on how fast you recover AP and the fight), but generally its a limited use power that is easily eclipsed by the other options. Perhaps if you ran Tactics to get the AP cycle to "daily every encounter" it would be better, but it seems to me to be the worst of the passives in the PP.
Feedback: General I'm happy with the PP as it stands now and assuming the identified bugs are fixed would be very happy to respec to it with my TR.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I looked at the new path and tried some of the encounters/abilities. IMO, losing impossible to catch is going to make this new path a no go. Most rogues use it in pvp and many of the pve encounters. I know you can't have everything but this is a big one.
I understand how much we are all invested in Impossible to Catch, but seeing as this is a Paragon encounter, following your statement it would render pretty much all other paragons useless. And there are more paragons coming. It's something to cope with, but hardly a deal breaker where all other paragons are concerned, if I may criticize humbly.
I understand how much we are all invested in Impossible to Catch, but seeing as this is a Paragon encounter, following your statement it would render pretty much all other paragons useless. And there are more paragons coming. It's something to cope with, but hardly a deal breaker where all other paragons are concerned, if I may criticize humbly.
lol of course you can criticize. My thoughts when I wrote were that we were all looking forward to a new paragon path that would be different then the current one but still good. When I was testing the path, I kept going back to the fact that I had lost ItC but the powers I gained didn't come close to equaling that loss. Now since then they have added some more utility to the encounter. It sounds like some rogues are starting to make some build viable. However for me I will prefer the utility of ItC. Plus the new paragon seems kinda slow to play, not as fun as the one we have. Looking forward to seeing the builds though. Anything new
Comments
Please run some tests, post some numbers, and get some data before "claiming" that something is OP or need to be addressed and wasting everyone's time reading it.
You didn't even bother to check the range of that skill..
Thanks.
I feel pretty much the same way. I have tested out them multiple times now trying to get something that works. Honestly though it just feels really slow. Doing dailies with the old build compared to the new one is night and day. I can't see why anyone would pick it as is over another variation. I am looking forward to the encounter changes but the at will is kinda getting me hung up. I don't know whether to advise them to speed it up and risk it being OP or to add more damage to the current speed. Either way it just doesn't seem to work. On a very minor note, the animation kinda gets annoying
Interested to see as well if anyone has come up with a build that they like with the new path. Willing to try it out.
2- When i said " range" i mean't checking its "full potential" with range ( aka with the new Class feature that increases your daggers damage if you are 20' from the target).
Test---> Gather data---> Compare--->Then talk.
Feedback: Vengeances’ Pursuit:
Damage was good especially when you can get it all to work.
Problems;
1) Using the RA from stealth emptied my stealth bar.
2) If you kill the target with the RA the second half of the power doesn't work.
Would love it to be a single push power that was RA then move to target position and do the burst MA. Then when stealthed it could add the effects (slowed etc).
Feedback: Disheartening Strike:
Still too slow. Take away the DoT and speed the animation up then tweak the damage so its performing as expected. It should still produce less damage quickly than Cloud of Steel but have the advantage of infinite charges.
Feedback: Hateful Knives:
Its just bad. It neither does sufficient single target damage nor imposes sufficient conditions to make it worth a point. Even with the Feat to boost it it remained bad.
Feedback: Dagger Threat:
Happy with this, but clearer language about what the benefits it gives would help. (This is true of many class features not just this one.)
Feedback: Razor Action:
Does this even work?
I'll test some more but it just didn't seem to do anything, even with the feat boosting it.
Feedback: Advantageous Position:
This seems OK. However with a ranged based character the advantage of it seems questionable as it can be lost before the enemy reaches you. Perhaps a longer duration?
Feedback: Distracting Knife:
I try to avoid feats that lock you into a power and this one was not worth the investment. Perhaps if Disheartening got faster and was just plain damage a feat that would boost it by adding effects would be good.
(Problem now is you might use Disheartening 1x maybe 2x in while soloing normal content, so feats that boost it are only for a situational power; by and large you are always better with Cloud.)
Feedback: Seething Knives:
No appreciable effect even at 5/5. I also misread the effect it has on Razor which would have made it worth it (making Razor always on not just after daily but as a dot effect).
Feedback: Determined Pursuit:
If it just interrupted it would be worth taking, but a chance to do something that is situational anyway (seeing the associated power is best as an opening salvo anyway) doesn't seem like its worth a feat.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-shadowblade
As it stands, WK path feels very encumber-some, and in ways like more of a punishment for speccing into it than much else. The wording on the skills is terrible, and highly ambiguous. 2 - 2.5 of the items in the path feel of any worth, Disen-Strike is decent for PvE, but very situational in the fact that you have to keep it going in order to really benefit from it, which requires you are always within 40' of the Boss..... I can already see this getting a massive nerf very soon due to all the Stealth exploiters & Scripties who can remain hidden at all times without SS/BnS. Though the Stealth reveal ability/s of an Artifact and Companion (along with who knows what else) when this goes live will be definite game changers for the Rogue class legitimate players.
Hopefully this is a bug, but Bloodbath has been getting interrupted allot on Test/Preview server
OK great... nerf it so that 0% of TRs use it and they give us a new paragon instead. Sounds good to me
The skill has great potential, but could really use reworking. The animation is ridiculous, the sound is recycled and tweaked Gloaming Cut. With removal of ItC for this path, such skills should in my opinion not be forcing the player to become more stationary, but instead allow for more mobility. It does not need to be cast-able while moving, or jumping and so on, but a shorter cast time would be very beneficial, and serve to make this skill far more attractive. It could be a great PvE/Boss skill, but you have to weave, or stay within 40' range, or + feat... a 20' range...... Such slow cast times are death in that range. (BUT) on the other hand, it will easily become quite the long term hidden PvP go to = which will get it drastically nerfed very soon after this all goes live. Balance things out differently between PvE & PvP, and you'll find far less such issues.
ItC point true.
No Shadow Strike? Wrong.
I would say get rid of Shadow Strike, and give ItC back. That would make this path far more attractive, and a bit less exploitable.
[IMG][/img]
You can have 3 dodges if you spec for it.
No. See my bug report thread here: Possible bug with Path of the Blade-skill. Panderus said it's supposed to crit. But you're right with that it would be too powerful if they just "fixed" it right away and didn't adjust the damage or anything. They are working on it but it wont see a fix soon because of all the more important stuff on their desk right now.
This situation is not evenly spread. A couple of CW skills which could not previous crit can now do so in Module 2, these now do significantly more damage without any adjustment otherwise. Some also now have armorpen factored in now. All of these were intended to but were simply fixed without the "too op" parse required for the above TR PotB fix.
Lets be real, the devs are not trying to do TRs any favors and have absolutely no intent on making the new paragon good or powerful.
QFT. Also they seem to spend much more time on fixing things on "mages" which seems to be all time favorite of the most people out there in any game.
Seems someone forgot to mention that Daily skill Hateful Knives (not in tool-tip) replenishes a good deal of Stealth bar, and reduces wear down time of Stealth meter while not dropping player from stealth upon use, and actually builds stealth meter for a few seconds. Adding yet another skill to the repertoire of skills/feats/features the Rogue class has to keep them hidden even longer.
From test: From one Stealth "tab" click.
Encounter Skills: Shadow Strike, BnS, Vegeance's Persuit
Featues: Razor Action, Tactics
At-Wills: Duelist's Flurry, Disheartening Strike.
Daily: Hateful Knives
Gear: Full Fey
Recovery: Only 1285
I can now use these skills, to remain hidden through a full two cycles of building A.P for Daily (meaning done the right *or wrong* way, a player can now keep this cycle going indefinitely), since Stealth meter can now be set up to actually increase stealth meter amount as you do damage, one can effectively set them selves up to remain hidden indefinitely while continuously dealing damage. In effect, Rogue class now has two (where Stealth is concerned) versions of Lurker's Assault. While I really enjoy my Rogue, this as far as remaining hidden is concerned, needs to be reworked. You guys already have players who can exploit Stealth, and some can remain hidden for brash periods of time just by increasing certain stats. While others are using exploits, and Script Engines, this is just serving to make it even easier, to remain hidden longer, and be able to deal out far more damage while hidden.
It looks like you have overlooked the actual feat that is doing this djarad. Seething Knives is a second tier in the Scoundrel path which means you needed to give up 10 points to get it in full from otherwise dps skills. I tried this earlier but I am also keen to see just how much DPS you could sustainably put out using these skills and feats to maintain stealth with your level of gearing.
One of the supposed reasons Rogue class got that recent big nerf, was due to ppl being able to remain stealthed soloing many dungeon bosses. Yes, they made it more difficult, and yes they have gone a full 180 on that with the new path capabilities, with which, so far on my test char, HK has been lasting longer than LA.
After the last batch of nerfs due to a similar issue, this is setting the class up for another string of the same. Best to address any such concerns before it all goes live.
As interesting as the new path is, it's all too glaringly obvious that if it goes live as it is, my main's class will get another ticket on the nerf train.
I attempted to offset the ping losses using Scavenger's set and found with a Recovery of only 963 it was unimpressive and unable to become sustainable.
Hardly likely many TRs will want to see a Paragon that promises significant stealth, range AND high DPS; only to have it nerfed after folk consume their Spec change token (if we get one).
Again I say it appears much much easier to maintain perma stealth with the existing Paragon tree (Gloaming Cut + feats etc) than trying to make this Daggers ranged+ Paragon fit into that mould. Bosses can already be soloed using that approach (if you don't fall asleep at the keyboard waiting for them to finally die) so I cannot yet see the same imminent problems you are describing.
Perhaps a link to a youtube of what you are seeing, the sustainability stealth cycle against a boss, and the combat logs will help illustrate your "all too glaringly obvious" issue with the Paragon to the Devs? Other folk may already have done something similar and be willing to share concerns of an unbalanced tree?
@iweldar I keep getting the same numbers, a bit below 2k for a crit. 850-950 non crit. Just as previous patch.
Bug: Power: Disheartening Strike
Armor Penetration stat doesn't affect this power.
I went Saboteur with Distracting Knife at 5/5 and used either Sneak Attack/Tenacious Concealment or Dagger Threat/Advantageous Position as passives.
With Path of the Blade, Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike as encounters and Disheartening Strike and Cloud of Steel as at-will I was able to keep stealth up very consistently allowing Advantageous to cover those brief periods of no stealth with CA just fine. (Those brief periods are probably easily eliminated by more experienced TR players however.)
I would have to run a lot more tests to be sure about ArP etc but the feats/powers seem to be having the desired effects.
Feedback: Vengeance's Pursuit
TBH Damage seems a little low on this power for largely single target DPS. Though when breaking control matters that is probably more than enough to make up for the limited damage (after all if you are not controlled you can be damaging stuff).
At the end of the attack from out of stealth there is a strange little extra animation, like an over excited version of the TR's usual "I've just killed stuff" bounce.
It remains an annoying power to use, with a relatively long wait (about 1s) between activations required instead of being able to just double tap the key and run both halves if you want.
Bug: Vengeance's Pursuit vs Bait and Switch
Bait and Switch Dummy blocks LoS for Vengeance's Pursuit.
Feedback: Razor Action
At 3/3 for me this reports around 460 points of damage on average for the initial attack and around 35x3 for the DoT. These numbers are not affected by the feats (ie stealth & CA damage bonuses) or Dagger Threat or Lurker's Assault (the daily I was triggering with). Not sure if this is intended or a bug, but I presume attended. Without something else this just pointless to run still, it could be a lot of "surprise" damage several times in a fight (depending on how fast you recover AP and the fight), but generally its a limited use power that is easily eclipsed by the other options. Perhaps if you ran Tactics to get the AP cycle to "daily every encounter" it would be better, but it seems to me to be the worst of the passives in the PP.
Feedback: General
I'm happy with the PP as it stands now and assuming the identified bugs are fixed would be very happy to respec to it with my TR.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Thanks for the reply. Good to know I'm not crazy. Any other TR's out there getting 4k plus crits with the at-will?
I understand how much we are all invested in Impossible to Catch, but seeing as this is a Paragon encounter, following your statement it would render pretty much all other paragons useless. And there are more paragons coming. It's something to cope with, but hardly a deal breaker where all other paragons are concerned, if I may criticize humbly.
lol of course you can criticize. My thoughts when I wrote were that we were all looking forward to a new paragon path that would be different then the current one but still good. When I was testing the path, I kept going back to the fact that I had lost ItC but the powers I gained didn't come close to equaling that loss. Now since then they have added some more utility to the encounter. It sounds like some rogues are starting to make some build viable. However for me I will prefer the utility of ItC. Plus the new paragon seems kinda slow to play, not as fun as the one we have. Looking forward to seeing the builds though. Anything new