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Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Trickster Rogue Whisperknife Paragon Path

lordgallenlordgallen Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Posts: 91
Howdy!
The upcoming Shadowmantle module introduces new Paragon paths for all of the existing classes.
We expect a lot of great feedback so we're setting up these threads to keep it more specific.
We'll be stopping by these threads everyday so keep your feedback coming in!

Trickster Rogue - Whisper Knife
Whisper Knife adds numerous mid range attack options, as well as gap closers and other utility.

Paragon paths contain 1 Atwill, 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, 3 Class Features, and 3 Feats.
Post edited by lordgallen on
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Comments

  • lordgallenlordgallen Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Posts: 91
    edited October 2013
    Please use “Bold” face text for the Type & Categories then type your feedback in the body of your post. If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use BLUE.
    (Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)

    Category: Gameplay, Powers, Feats

    Bug: Feat: Name
    Power did not seem to do anything, audio and hit reacts were also missing. (screenshot)

    Feedback: Power: Name
    Power was fun to use, but could be even better if it also did this other thing.

    Thanks for your help and feedback!
  • mattson33mattson33 Member, Cryptic Developers Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Paragon Path Progression
    The Whisperknife Paragon Powers are ....

    Encounter Power – Vengeances’ Pursuit:
    o After slashing your target, you designate them as your pursuit target. As a follow up power, you may re-activate this to throw a dagger at them, briefly Slowing them, and making them grant Combat Advantage to you and your allies.
    o Stealthed: You now throw the dagger first, and the follow up power causes you to quickly lunge towards your pursuit target, slashing them and those around you.
     Followup powers deals additional damage from Stealth.

    Atwill Power – Disheartening Strike:
    o You spitefully fling a dagger at your target’s head, dealing damage over time and temporarily reducing the damage they deal to you.

    Daily Power – Hateful Knives:
    o Dashing towards your foe, you knock them Prone with an upward strike and hurl two daggers at them before you land. This fearsome display leaves them shaken and they temporarily grant you and your allies Combat Advantage.

    Class Feature – Dagger Threat:
    o Your ranged dagger attacks deal more damage when you are within 20ft of your target.

    Class Feature – Razor Action:
    o After activating a Daily power you fling daggers into nearby targets.

    Class Feature – Advantageous Position:
    o After leaving Stealth, for a brief period you maintain Combat Advantage and take reduced damage from ranged attacks.

    Feat – Distracting Knife:
    o Disheartening Strike now also increases your damage against the target by a percentage, and reduces the damage affected enemies deal to your allies by a percentage.

    Feat – Seething Knives:
    o After using the Hateful Knives Daily power, you regain a percentage of Stealth meter, and for a short time afterwards, when you damage that target you regain a percentage of your Stealth meter.
    o In addition the Razor Action class feature always deals an additional percentage of it’s damage as a brief damage over time.

    Feat – Determined Pursuit:
    o The dagger throw portion of the Veageance’s Pursuit encounter now has a percentage chance to interrupt your target, and the melee portion now briefly slows them by a percentage.
  • vteasyvteasy Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Feedback: New Powers


    I looked at the new path and tried some of the encounters/abilities. IMO, losing impossible to catch is going to make this new path a no go. Most rogues use it in pvp and many of the pve encounters. I know you can't have everything but this is a big one.
  • jasonbhoy7jasonbhoy7 Member Posts: 53
    edited October 2013
    Feedback:
    I was disappointed with the new path for a lot of reasons and as the post above me said having no impossible to catch means this tree as it stands is not going to be used by me.

    The new at will is far too slow to be considering useful for my play style.

    And the new encounter was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, whats the point in having a gap closer if you are going to end up proned or CC'ed because there is no ITC.

    The new daily is nowehere near as effective as shocking execution so again this tree doesn't suit me at all.

    The new feats are pretty useless imo. One of the feats you get more damage from your thrown knives but cloud of steel only having 8 blades and the new at will being so slow makes this feat pointless. I also miss skilful infiltrator on that new tree, so thats an at will, daily, encounter and feat that I don't see a need for.

    And for some reason even with 2k defence and 2.2k deflect on my rogue I was getting hit constantly for 14K ray of enfeeble which seemed either glitched or buffed. I have never seen damage like that from that skill.

    Another thing, I got hit by 5 tenes proccing at same time and got hit for 1047 damage from each of them. These cannot have taken into account the defence and deflect I have. Previously the highest that had procced on me was around 800 unless they have had their damage buffed.
  • swarfega27swarfega27 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Feedback: Power: Hateful Knives
    For a daily with reasonably low damage the prone seems very short.

    Feedback: Power: Lack of immunity
    This paragon path is a perma stealths wet dream. The extra range damage from a new range at will, new class feat for under 20' range, a prone.

    For me i wont be using the new path without a CC imune/break of some description. There is so much control in pvp i think it suicidal to do so.
  • utuwerutuwer Member Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Feedback: Power:
    Disheartening Strike - It is too slow, and the damage over time seems not to stack. It is a nightmare to use this skill against multiple monsters due to the auto-aim system.

    Feedback: Power: Overall
    No cc immunity/breaker is a big no no for this tree. This tree seem to focus to mid-range, single target fighting style. However, I do not see Rogues with this tree have any chance against any class in PvP since all of other classes can cc from mid-range to long range. There should be a feat/encounter that offers cc immunity at least after leaving stealth.
    You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
  • aiausaiaus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Please fix the new path with ITC other wise it will suck hardcore.
  • dreamhuntressxdreamhuntressx Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Everyone had it coming. Everyone KNEW they were going to lose ItC at some point. When u choose the Paragon path (Master Infiltrator), it clearly shows the ItC as an Encounter. It doesnt sound like a feedback, but like "I want my game this way or im gonna cry". Also, Its not all about PvP: SOME will enjoy the new Paragon path, w/o ItC and SOME will stay with the former. Diversity will not please everyone.
    Leanan Sidhe (not "The Dresde Files" fairy!) - NW Legit Channel Moderator
  • horizonshardhorizonshard Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Feedback: Class Feature - Dagger Threat

    Is there any way to get a list of abilities that are considered "ranged dagger attacks"? I.e. is Whirlwind of Blades a ranged dagger attack? Is Path of the Blade? Also, it would be nice to know exactly how much extra damage it gives. 15%? 20%?
  • vteasyvteasy Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Everyone had it coming. Everyone KNEW they were going to lose ItC at some point. When u choose the Paragon path (Master Infiltrator), it clearly shows the ItC as an Encounter. It doesnt sound like a feedback, but like "I want my game this way or im gonna cry". Also, Its not all about PvP: SOME will enjoy the new Paragon path, w/o ItC and SOME will stay with the former. Diversity will not please everyone.

    it sounds like feedback to me, unlike what you wrote
  • srdjanasrdjana Banned Users Posts: 153 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    FEEDBACK : Whisperknife

    I dont mind this class not receiving a CC breaking ability. People have become so dependant on cheese builds they do not want to give something a try...
    However this path should have a REASON to change to, something that stands out, maybe a little more damage, maybe an extended CC effect or prone ability, possibly some sort of quick travel Shadow Step similar to the rangers
  • warzogwarzog Member Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    FEEDBACK : Whisperknife

    Except for:
    • Class Feature – Dagger Threat:
    o Your ranged dagger attacks deal more damage when you are within 20ft of your target.

    • Class Feature – Razor Action:
    o After activating a Daily power you fling daggers into nearby targets.

    And even they have limited uses, which makes the Whisperknife Paragon completely useless.


    IF, a Paragon were created, whereby the throwing of daggers were replaced by the use of a shortbow that most fans of the D&D Rogue are familiar with, that would be something.
    IF, a Paragon were created, whereby Assassination skills were added, that would be something.
    IF, a Paragon were created, whereby Poison skills were added, that would be something.

    To me, Whisperknife was a waste of time creating.
    Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!!!
    (Where's a Miniature Giant Space Hamster when you need one?)
  • lordgallenlordgallen Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Posts: 91
    edited October 2013
    Hi, thanks for the initial batch of feedback.

    The Encounter power is likely going to change up a bit to become a bit more useful.

    Atwill does need to be sped up a bit, but it needs to be careful or it will feel too much like a replacement for Cloud of Steel, which it should not be.

    Regarding the Daily, keep in mind that it has an 80 foot range, and also grants all of your allies combat advantage against that target.

    Regarding things counted as Ranged, if you are throwing a dagger, it should count counts as Ranged. It looks like Whirlwind of Blades is not currently considered Ranged, but it soon will be.

    Thanks for the feedback, more changes to come.
  • seraphidseraphid Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    This ppl complaining about no having itc >_>. try to understand u trade this for RANGED skills as a melee highest single target dps class. with that new change just w8 for QQ "40 k lashing blade WTF im GF", throw atwill dagger to increase dmg by%,throw new encouter,dash to enemy with lashing blade.

    U <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> nuts wanting itc to that sick combo?
  • spicenspicen Member Posts: 248 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    lordgallen wrote: »
    Hi, thanks for the initial batch of feedback.

    The Encounter power is likely going to change up a bit to become a bit more useful.

    Atwill does need to be sped up a bit, but it needs to be careful or it will feel too much like a replacement for Cloud of Steel, which it should not be.

    Regarding the Daily, keep in mind that it has an 80 foot range, and also grants all of your allies combat advantage against that target.

    Regarding things counted as Ranged, if you are throwing a dagger, it should count counts as Ranged. It looks like Whirlwind of Blades is not currently considered Ranged, but it soon will be.

    Thanks for the feedback, more changes to come.

    Then what about Path of the Blade? It sure isn't a melee either? Also when are you guys fixing that skill? It can't score critical strike and I don't know any specifics but some players have claimed it is only affected by power. Which means it isn't affected by enemies damage reduction, deflection and your armor penetration.
  • lwedarlwedar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgallen wrote: »
    Hi, thanks for the initial batch of feedback.

    The Encounter power is likely going to change up a bit to become a bit more useful.

    Atwill does need to be sped up a bit, but it needs to be careful or it will feel too much like a replacement for Cloud of Steel, which it should not be.

    Regarding the Daily, keep in mind that it has an 80 foot range, and also grants all of your allies combat advantage against that target.

    Regarding things counted as Ranged, if you are throwing a dagger, it should count counts as Ranged. It looks like Whirlwind of Blades is not currently considered Ranged, but it soon will be.

    Thanks for the feedback, more changes to come.

    Thanks for replying. Glad that the feedback is helping.

    I have tested out all of the new features. Agreed the at will should not be a replacement for CoS. However as it is now it doesn't really have a role. CoS is much faster and hits comparable. In PvE you will be running duelist flurry so you will only pick one of the range at wills. Hard to see an argument for picking the new one. Perhaps if there was utility added it would make sense to bring. Perhaps keep the speed slow but make it have a small AOE? Would help in the dungeons alot.

    Encounter has so much potential. Still testing it but kinda liking it.

    The daily. This is interesting. Basically it is replacing Shocking Execution, which is used in pvp. Dailies in dungeons are whirlwind of blades and lurkers mostly. Now as it stand I don't think the daily will replace those two in pve. Its great that it has range and give allies combat advantage but Whirlwind is going to do more damage on trash and lurkers is going to hurt the boss more. TR's are still brought in groups for single target dps. Still need to play around with it in pvp. Love the face that we get some way to prone though.

    Regarding impossible to catch. The idea is that each class needs some way to break cc, especially in pvp. Matches become a bit of a chess by trying to decided when to use your cc encounters/cc breakers. These new abilities seems to encourage pure perma stealth builds which seems to leave a bad taste in the communities mouth judging by feedback on the forums. I guess what I am saying is that if you aren't a perma stealth rogue the lack of cc breaking is a deal breaker. If you don't want to keep ItC perhaps have a new skill that breaks cc but doesn't give the 5 second immunity? It would at least be worth it to test.

    These are my thoughts, I will keep trying out the new abilities and look forward to the upcoming content. The combat system is still the most fun I've experienced.
    "we all love this game and want it to thrive"
  • spicenspicen Member Posts: 248 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    Only good thing that would make me choose this path instead of master infiltrator is the disheartening strike at-will. I can't see the encounter being used in any situation in either pve or pvp and class features aren't as good as in the other path. Daily seems ok, but considering shocking execution was only mostly used in pvp and now becomes even more important with the change to soulforge, I wouldn't go for it since I would really try to use it in pvp, can't find any uses for it in pve group content, and well soloing has always been easy for trs, haven't needed prones.
  • imaginarealityimaginareality Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Bug: Feat - Paragon Power : Seething Knives. Very small thing, but incorrect use of apostrophe in the description:


    142_edit_zpsd7765751.png
  • imaginarealityimaginareality Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Bug: Feat - Paragon Power : Distracting Knife Refers to 'Disheartening Knife', but I can't find any mention of that. Should this be 'Disheartening Strike' ?


    143_edit_zps7c8c876e.png
  • lordgallenlordgallen Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Posts: 91
    edited November 2013
    Bug: Feat - Paragon Power : Distracting Knife Refers to 'Disheartening Knife', but I can't find any mention of that. Should this be 'Disheartening Strike' ?

    Good call outs on both of these, much appreciated.
  • yogokouyogokou Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Feedback: Whisperknife viability

    Move Impossible to Catch from Master Infiltrator tree to the basic rogue skills, move another currently basic skill to Master Infiltrator tree. Since ITC is the deal-breaker for everyone.
  • battlestationvbattlestationv Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    it's beginning to sound more like ItC is everyones crutch
  • dreamhuntressxdreamhuntressx Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    That's what i said. The new Paragons are new options, not an upgrade of the older ones. If u don't like the Whisperknife, fine, keep playing with Master Infiltrator. Isn't that simple?
    Leanan Sidhe (not "The Dresde Files" fairy!) - NW Legit Channel Moderator
  • spicenspicen Member Posts: 248 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    That's what i said. The new Paragons are new options, not an upgrade of the older ones. If u don't like the Whisperknife, fine, keep playing with Master Infiltrator. Isn't that simple?
    But as of now, anyone who want to be viable option for the group in either pvp or pve wont go Whisperknife paragon path. Master Infiltrator simply is just way better for us in what we do best, pure single target dps.
  • dreamhuntressxdreamhuntressx Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    My point is still valid. U can still play as a Master Infiltrator, for ages to come, it's not mandatory to choose the Whisperknife. One can even reroll a new toon just for the fun and keep playing 'seriously' with it's main.
    Leanan Sidhe (not "The Dresde Files" fairy!) - NW Legit Channel Moderator
  • ipwnu1ipwnu1 Member Posts: 89
    edited November 2013
    From what I've seen the build is ok but nothing special unless you play perma stealth. Interesting concept with ranged attack but I expected something different. To all the people complaining about not having ItC, CW's lose their EotS and GF would lose Threatening Rush and Surge if they chose another Paragon. What you guys really are complaining about is wanting to have the best PvP ability in the old Paragon while getting all the goodies in the new one. If that ever happens wouldn't it require to balance the other classes around the same idea? From what I understand a Paragon Tree choice should be just that - a choice, meaning that by gaining some abilities we will lose some other abilities.
  • dreamhuntressxdreamhuntressx Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Let's not forget it also lose Shocking Execution (number 1 in the complaint list in the good ol' days of 1-hit shot), Skillful Infiltrator, Invisible Infiltrator, Infiltrator's Action and Gloaming Cut (the last 2 ones are kinda meh to me, i said to ME), and ppl are stuck with ItC! Lol!
    Leanan Sidhe (not "The Dresde Files" fairy!) - NW Legit Channel Moderator
  • horizonshardhorizonshard Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Feedback:

    I don't mind losing Impossible to Catch. I don't pvp much so I don't use it. Being strictly a pve player, having an at-will that does damage over time is amazingly good. I can weave it into my rotation and it does damage while I'm doing other damage. Dagger Threat also helps with my damage when using Disheartening Strike, Impact Shot, Whirlwind of Blades, or Hateful Knives. The only concern I had was losing 3% crit off of Skillful Infiltrator, and losing Shocking Execution. It will take some testing to see if the extra damage from Razor Action makes up for some of the damage loss by switching to Hateful Blades. Overall, I'm happy with the new paragon.
  • vteasyvteasy Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Agree it is a choice, but their trying to give more options to help make each character more unique. If no one uses the new path then thats a lot of time wasted.
  • horizonshardhorizonshard Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Feedback: Daily Power - Hateful Knives

    Having played around with Hateful Knives a bit, it definitely feels lackluster compared to some of our other dailies. It doesn't do much damage, however, I suspect the teleport to the target and the prone are supposed to make up for that. That being the case, it would be nice to see the prone go through control immunities. It would be hilarious to knock down those gigantic bosses by jumping on their back and throwing knives in their face.

    *Edit*Bug: Daily Power - Hateful Knives

    I have also noticed that even when the initial hit of Hateful Knives crits, the two knives do not. I have never seen the two knives thrown during the power turn out to be crits. Can those knives in fact critically hit?
This discussion has been closed.