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Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Trickster Rogue Whisperknife Paragon Path
lordgallen
Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Posts: 91Cryptic Developers ›
Howdy!
The upcoming Shadowmantle module introduces new Paragon paths for all of the existing classes.
We expect a lot of great feedback so we're setting up these threads to keep it more specific.
We'll be stopping by these threads everyday so keep your feedback coming in!
Trickster Rogue - Whisper Knife
Whisper Knife adds numerous mid range attack options, as well as gap closers and other utility.
Paragon paths contain 1 Atwill, 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, 3 Class Features, and 3 Feats.
The upcoming Shadowmantle module introduces new Paragon paths for all of the existing classes.
We expect a lot of great feedback so we're setting up these threads to keep it more specific.
We'll be stopping by these threads everyday so keep your feedback coming in!
Trickster Rogue - Whisper Knife
Whisper Knife adds numerous mid range attack options, as well as gap closers and other utility.
Paragon paths contain 1 Atwill, 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, 3 Class Features, and 3 Feats.
Post edited by lordgallen on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
(Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Category: Gameplay, Powers, Feats
Bug: Feat: Name
Power did not seem to do anything, audio and hit reacts were also missing. (screenshot)
Feedback: Power: Name
Power was fun to use, but could be even better if it also did this other thing.
Thanks for your help and feedback!
The Whisperknife Paragon Powers are ....
• Encounter Power – Vengeances’ Pursuit:
o After slashing your target, you designate them as your pursuit target. As a follow up power, you may re-activate this to throw a dagger at them, briefly Slowing them, and making them grant Combat Advantage to you and your allies.
o Stealthed: You now throw the dagger first, and the follow up power causes you to quickly lunge towards your pursuit target, slashing them and those around you.
Followup powers deals additional damage from Stealth.
• Atwill Power – Disheartening Strike:
o You spitefully fling a dagger at your target’s head, dealing damage over time and temporarily reducing the damage they deal to you.
• Daily Power – Hateful Knives:
o Dashing towards your foe, you knock them Prone with an upward strike and hurl two daggers at them before you land. This fearsome display leaves them shaken and they temporarily grant you and your allies Combat Advantage.
• Class Feature – Dagger Threat:
o Your ranged dagger attacks deal more damage when you are within 20ft of your target.
• Class Feature – Razor Action:
o After activating a Daily power you fling daggers into nearby targets.
• Class Feature – Advantageous Position:
o After leaving Stealth, for a brief period you maintain Combat Advantage and take reduced damage from ranged attacks.
• Feat – Distracting Knife:
o Disheartening Strike now also increases your damage against the target by a percentage, and reduces the damage affected enemies deal to your allies by a percentage.
• Feat – Seething Knives:
o After using the Hateful Knives Daily power, you regain a percentage of Stealth meter, and for a short time afterwards, when you damage that target you regain a percentage of your Stealth meter.
o In addition the Razor Action class feature always deals an additional percentage of it’s damage as a brief damage over time.
• Feat – Determined Pursuit:
o The dagger throw portion of the Veageance’s Pursuit encounter now has a percentage chance to interrupt your target, and the melee portion now briefly slows them by a percentage.
I looked at the new path and tried some of the encounters/abilities. IMO, losing impossible to catch is going to make this new path a no go. Most rogues use it in pvp and many of the pve encounters. I know you can't have everything but this is a big one.
I was disappointed with the new path for a lot of reasons and as the post above me said having no impossible to catch means this tree as it stands is not going to be used by me.
The new at will is far too slow to be considering useful for my play style.
And the new encounter was HAMSTER, whats the point in having a gap closer if you are going to end up proned or CC'ed because there is no ITC.
The new daily is nowehere near as effective as shocking execution so again this tree doesn't suit me at all.
The new feats are pretty useless imo. One of the feats you get more damage from your thrown knives but cloud of steel only having 8 blades and the new at will being so slow makes this feat pointless. I also miss skilful infiltrator on that new tree, so thats an at will, daily, encounter and feat that I don't see a need for.
And for some reason even with 2k defence and 2.2k deflect on my rogue I was getting hit constantly for 14K ray of enfeeble which seemed either glitched or buffed. I have never seen damage like that from that skill.
Another thing, I got hit by 5 tenes proccing at same time and got hit for 1047 damage from each of them. These cannot have taken into account the defence and deflect I have. Previously the highest that had procced on me was around 800 unless they have had their damage buffed.
For a daily with reasonably low damage the prone seems very short.
Feedback: Power: Lack of immunity
This paragon path is a perma stealths wet dream. The extra range damage from a new range at will, new class feat for under 20' range, a prone.
For me i wont be using the new path without a CC imune/break of some description. There is so much control in pvp i think it suicidal to do so.
Disheartening Strike - It is too slow, and the damage over time seems not to stack. It is a nightmare to use this skill against multiple monsters due to the auto-aim system.
Feedback: Power: Overall
No cc immunity/breaker is a big no no for this tree. This tree seem to focus to mid-range, single target fighting style. However, I do not see Rogues with this tree have any chance against any class in PvP since all of other classes can cc from mid-range to long range. There should be a feat/encounter that offers cc immunity at least after leaving stealth.
Is there any way to get a list of abilities that are considered "ranged dagger attacks"? I.e. is Whirlwind of Blades a ranged dagger attack? Is Path of the Blade? Also, it would be nice to know exactly how much extra damage it gives. 15%? 20%?
it sounds like feedback to me, unlike what you wrote
I dont mind this class not receiving a CC breaking ability. People have become so dependant on cheese builds they do not want to give something a try...
However this path should have a REASON to change to, something that stands out, maybe a little more damage, maybe an extended CC effect or prone ability, possibly some sort of quick travel Shadow Step similar to the rangers
Except for:
• Class Feature – Dagger Threat:
o Your ranged dagger attacks deal more damage when you are within 20ft of your target.
• Class Feature – Razor Action:
o After activating a Daily power you fling daggers into nearby targets.
And even they have limited uses, which makes the Whisperknife Paragon completely useless.
IF, a Paragon were created, whereby the throwing of daggers were replaced by the use of a shortbow that most fans of the D&D Rogue are familiar with, that would be something.
IF, a Paragon were created, whereby Assassination skills were added, that would be something.
IF, a Paragon were created, whereby Poison skills were added, that would be something.
To me, Whisperknife was a waste of time creating.
(Where's a Miniature Giant Space Hamster when you need one?)
The Encounter power is likely going to change up a bit to become a bit more useful.
Atwill does need to be sped up a bit, but it needs to be careful or it will feel too much like a replacement for Cloud of Steel, which it should not be.
Regarding the Daily, keep in mind that it has an 80 foot range, and also grants all of your allies combat advantage against that target.
Regarding things counted as Ranged, if you are throwing a dagger, it should count counts as Ranged. It looks like Whirlwind of Blades is not currently considered Ranged, but it soon will be.
Thanks for the feedback, more changes to come.
U HAMSTER nuts wanting itc to that sick combo?
Then what about Path of the Blade? It sure isn't a melee either? Also when are you guys fixing that skill? It can't score critical strike and I don't know any specifics but some players have claimed it is only affected by power. Which means it isn't affected by enemies damage reduction, deflection and your armor penetration.
Thanks for replying. Glad that the feedback is helping.
I have tested out all of the new features. Agreed the at will should not be a replacement for CoS. However as it is now it doesn't really have a role. CoS is much faster and hits comparable. In PvE you will be running duelist flurry so you will only pick one of the range at wills. Hard to see an argument for picking the new one. Perhaps if there was utility added it would make sense to bring. Perhaps keep the speed slow but make it have a small AOE? Would help in the dungeons alot.
Encounter has so much potential. Still testing it but kinda liking it.
The daily. This is interesting. Basically it is replacing Shocking Execution, which is used in pvp. Dailies in dungeons are whirlwind of blades and lurkers mostly. Now as it stand I don't think the daily will replace those two in pve. Its great that it has range and give allies combat advantage but Whirlwind is going to do more damage on trash and lurkers is going to hurt the boss more. TR's are still brought in groups for single target dps. Still need to play around with it in pvp. Love the face that we get some way to prone though.
Regarding impossible to catch. The idea is that each class needs some way to break cc, especially in pvp. Matches become a bit of a chess by trying to decided when to use your cc encounters/cc breakers. These new abilities seems to encourage pure perma stealth builds which seems to leave a bad taste in the communities mouth judging by feedback on the forums. I guess what I am saying is that if you aren't a perma stealth rogue the lack of cc breaking is a deal breaker. If you don't want to keep ItC perhaps have a new skill that breaks cc but doesn't give the 5 second immunity? It would at least be worth it to test.
These are my thoughts, I will keep trying out the new abilities and look forward to the upcoming content. The combat system is still the most fun I've experienced.
Good call outs on both of these, much appreciated.
Move Impossible to Catch from Master Infiltrator tree to the basic rogue skills, move another currently basic skill to Master Infiltrator tree. Since ITC is the deal-breaker for everyone.
I don't mind losing Impossible to Catch. I don't pvp much so I don't use it. Being strictly a pve player, having an at-will that does damage over time is amazingly good. I can weave it into my rotation and it does damage while I'm doing other damage. Dagger Threat also helps with my damage when using Disheartening Strike, Impact Shot, Whirlwind of Blades, or Hateful Knives. The only concern I had was losing 3% crit off of Skillful Infiltrator, and losing Shocking Execution. It will take some testing to see if the extra damage from Razor Action makes up for some of the damage loss by switching to Hateful Blades. Overall, I'm happy with the new paragon.
Having played around with Hateful Knives a bit, it definitely feels lackluster compared to some of our other dailies. It doesn't do much damage, however, I suspect the teleport to the target and the prone are supposed to make up for that. That being the case, it would be nice to see the prone go through control immunities. It would be hilarious to knock down those gigantic bosses by jumping on their back and throwing knives in their face.
*Edit*Bug: Daily Power - Hateful Knives
I have also noticed that even when the initial hit of Hateful Knives crits, the two knives do not. I have never seen the two knives thrown during the power turn out to be crits. Can those knives in fact critically hit?