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I'm so sick of dungeons...
gornonthecob
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 421 Arc User
Yeah I just don't know what to do anymore. I went on a month break from Neverwinter. I came back and was eager to play my CW, but sadly so the rest of the world plays one too, and that makes it impossible to get groups. So I brushed off my cleric, and queue up...
This is all I ever see. What is going on with the group finder?!?!!
What do those red circles even mean? Not enough players? Then why pop the queue?
FURTHERMORE- When I finally do get into a dungeon, every rushes past all the mobs in order to get to the next camp fire. We end up losing AT LEAST 2 people who die in the attempt, they get pissed and leave. Every single group I get in loses at least 1 member within the first 5 minutes.
So, Cryptic, how do you plan on fixing your dungeons / lfg system? I read on these very forums once that the reason people try to skip over parts are due to bad design. I didn't used to agree, but now I see it. Nobody wants to wade through 30 minutes of trash to get to loot. Everyone looks for ways to glitch your bosses because nobody wants to fight endless waves of mobs, wipe 5-10 times, and have group members give up.
What are you doing to salvage this?
This is all I ever see. What is going on with the group finder?!?!!
What do those red circles even mean? Not enough players? Then why pop the queue?
FURTHERMORE- When I finally do get into a dungeon, every rushes past all the mobs in order to get to the next camp fire. We end up losing AT LEAST 2 people who die in the attempt, they get pissed and leave. Every single group I get in loses at least 1 member within the first 5 minutes.
So, Cryptic, how do you plan on fixing your dungeons / lfg system? I read on these very forums once that the reason people try to skip over parts are due to bad design. I didn't used to agree, but now I see it. Nobody wants to wade through 30 minutes of trash to get to loot. Everyone looks for ways to glitch your bosses because nobody wants to fight endless waves of mobs, wipe 5-10 times, and have group members give up.
What are you doing to salvage this?
Post edited by gornonthecob on
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Queued for Mad Dragon. Joined and found only 2 other players. That were already off on their own in the dungeon trying to duo stuff.
Queued for CN. Joined 5 times. Every single time it was me and one or two others. Never a full group inside.
Queued for Malabog's Castle. First time it showed a full group, but the healer was still in Protector's Enclave. Then they left. After that the queue failed about 6-7 times. Then finally I got in. With a group and all.
We spent like half an hour or more on the first boss. Part of the group was adamant we glitch it. Didn't like that myself, but no one knew how to do so anyway, lol. Finally we just killed it. After that we had other problems. Rude remarks started, then namecalling, then people quit. Between the time in queue and the time in the dungeon, it seemed like hours wasted. And we didn't even reach the second boss.
This is exactly why I don't like having to do dungeons to get the best gear.
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It is too much work for my GF. To finish 1 dungeon after they kicked 1 for ninja rolling I had to take all my Full life potions on the Boss because well frankly I wanted it down and they were HAMSTER at back up. Next dungeon they just attacked the mobs with me tanking the boss for nearly 40 minutes solo. So I gave up.
CW read too much HAMSTER on the Forums about pushing mobs off edges, now apparently they like that again. I just don't care no more about grouping with it. Though it is fun and I like its dynamics - I feel a negativity around the class and voom I'm gone.
TR is OK to play in a dungeon and Is really my only choice to go into one with.
DC is a bit tricky though rewarding. But It feels stupid sometimes and I hate Dickheads who never heal and expect you to heal them even out of conflict. Jeez take a potion. It is like they think my "at wills" heal or something and that I am their slave.
Did have a lv 60 GWF for a while but was a diff account and closed it because was ridiculous having 2 accounts.
Anyway the dungeons are too long for my liking - I would go in again with all classes and do not get me wrong I do like grouping and dungeons - I just haven't the time for them. I am so angry with the Skirmish system for this very reason.
I feel that the FORUMS and general respondents are in general Trolls just out to take down a game. This has affected me especially with my CW and also my GWF.
The real lesson is DO NOT READ FORUMS !! (lol) Their is heaps of variety in the game to do your own stuff (was not a big fan of dungeons in my WOW days after GS HAMSTER started - but was always unfinished solo content and Great PVP zones - Neverwinter needs more variety outside of the dungeons).
At the moment I just generally get off on playing with the zen exchange, doing the odd Foundry or Skirmish and the events when they come up - come to think of it I have given up on getting all the boons (Except for my TR) in Sharanar(or whatever the name is) as well - this is because playing 1 character after another, farming zone currency is just ridiculous. I would really be only down to 1 character atm except I am using them for storage, Professions and it is fun to occasionally take them out for a spin.
Dungeons also loose their lustre - Why grind to get better gear, just to grind to get better gear? Leveling a character I am OK with, endless grind to hopefully get some loot - bahh!
Hopefully the Devs will think of a better system one day instead of every mmo following around each other like sheep. Can not really complain about that here since MMO's are all generically based on D&D anyway!!
Dungeons have been like this for most games I have played - What can you do....................
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The other thing that detracts from enjoying dungeons is that no matter how you form your group you always get one or two that just run, even when using the "Legit" channels. There is no exploration, no communication, nothing. You choice is to either run with them, or let them die, in which case they ragequit. I have run most dungeons about 5 or more times, but most of them I have yet to get to truely explore and find the nodes and chests. I do not wonder why so many people avoid the dungeons, especially new players. Of course then there are the already oft discussed design issues.
Work with your friend list, OP. Find a guild.
Endless waves of add spawns = fail
PUGing only one or 2 players is great for recruiting to! When you get that one guy who joins your dungeon group and sees that the players are organized and communicating they stick around way after that first wipe and a lot times they end up as a new recruit in your guild.
So bottom line, find a guild that matches your play style and help it grow:) Form groups within the guild then branch out from there to fill the group.
***Guild Recruitment Information***
Mmo dungeons have always had adds.
Recruiting more good players who want to do the dungeons as intended, not glitch or exploit them, and learn how to kill the bosses properly. And I'll be damned if Cleric's aren't worth their weight in gold.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?523361-Unrepentant-Gaming-The-Finest-in-Pantless-Drunken-Exploit-Free-Gaming
I rarely, if ever, pug. And never completely randomly. If anything, we'll pick up an extra DPS to fill out a foursome, but never for anything we're not sure we could basically 4-man as needed.
Having to rely on the random group finder to place this game is a miserable experience, indeed.
- kindly ask people to leave and requeue since this instance is broken, and it messes the whole queue
- wait till you are the last one, then exit as well
- you will get the "return to instance" button, strip your gear till your GS drops low, then click it: you will be removed from the dungeon due to low GS
- the problematic instance closes since no people are left in it, re-queue and enjoy your fresh queue pop-up.
There are expectations of the system and then there are expectations of the group it puts you with. I have 0 expectations of the group. (Its feels good to vent and complain about it sometimes though. I'm guilty of that as you can tell by my earlier post in this thread.) And according to the module 2 notes on preview they are already working on stuff to help with this. Like the ability to bring in a replacement.
What I think is a reasonable expectation though, is that the system should work. For the most part, you can't run an epic dungeon with one or two players. So why would the queue ever bring you into a dungeon without a full group? Its just wasting everyone's time.
And i hate the fast runs, but i can understand why people do that, it's too many time wasted in a place to a have a chance to get a good item. This when the leader doesn't kick everyone to get the drops for himself.
As by the queue system, it's not the game developers fault that it doesn't work. People have no patience to deal with begginers, so they just look for "experienced members" to join their party, which makes me angry too. Because of that, if i wanna make a party, i never require experience, so these people can have their chance to learn the dungeons, but i know that unfortunately only a few do that too.
On the other side, i understand the experience required, as it goes a lot faster, and you don't waste too many time in a dungeon.
I know they've already looked into the dungeons and fixed a lot of bugs, but it still has a lot of issues.
They don't speak English, so everything after kindly asking them to leave is useless. I complained about this exact thing last week and about a month and a half ago when I left, actually one of the reasons I left. I enjoy dungeons, nearly always pug because I'm confident in my abilities and would like to continue doing dungeons as an event. However, because this problem persist I can not enjoy dungeons in a timely manner. Additionally, not necessarily required but it would be nice if the Q system never put me in a group with someone from my block list.
With a guild you generally can have a good time at the very least even if youre failing all the time but youre also more likely to finish the dungeon with a full guild group as well. However at this point it can be difficult to find guild members who do these runs because theyve already farmed or bought all the stuff they need
This is my primary concern. ^^
When I spend 40 minutes in broken queues during the 1 hour DD event, it's easy to get irritated.
I knew that a lot of you would probably encourage the idea of getting into a good guild for Dungeon runs, and that's very good advice. However, it doesn't fix a broken game mechanic, the glitches, the glitch abusers, the ridiculous amount of adds, and the overall tediousness of a dungeon.
Good feedback though, folks. Thank you for your thoughts.
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Let me break it down:
1. Most boss fights are completely uninteresting in terms of strategy. Burn the boss, avoid the multitudes of adds the boss is going to spawn. Very few encounters rely on people learning about the boss' various abilities and coordinating to avoid and counter them. Instead, you have one set of people round up/burn down/control the adds while the other people burn the boss. Just about every single fight.
2. Difficulty has absolutely nothing to do with the progression throughout the dungeon. Boss #1 might be harder than boss #3, and sometimes the final boss is easiest of them all.
3. In almost every dungeon, there is one boss that is basically impossible to kill with a group far above the minimum gear score. It usually involves way too many adds that hit way too hard, so if anyone in your group isn't extremely experienced, you're going to wipe over and over again.
4. Strategy relies on and leaves out certain classes. One would expect that a game like this would balance the fights so that you would most likely need a) a tank, b) a healer, c) some dps. Maybe you might expect the fights to require one from each class, with some flexibility. If you have a trend where people feel the need to tailor their team to the exclusion of certain classes, something is definitely wrong.
5. You don't fix exploits simply by putting up invisible walls. You know what happens when you do that? People scramble to find another exploit. When there are no more exploits, but the fights haven't been altered significantly, people will just stop playing. You need to address the reason exploits are so prevalent in this game, and it's not simply because so many mistakes have been made in terms of making it possible to do so. It's how very, very boring, alarmingly repetitive, and insanely difficult the dungeons are. I think most of boss fights need to be redesigned from scratch. Period.
It's really pretty basic. Fights should require a tank, a healer, and damage. Maybe some add control. Not every dungeon should be accomplished by spamming singularity, glitching bosses off the edge of cliffs, and deliberately dying in a certain spot to skip to the next bit.
Remember, people are running epic dungeons to GET gear. Don't make the dungeons for the people farming eq to sell on the AH, make it for the people who want to get their gear through hard work instead of paying for it (oh wait, then people wouldn't buy zen and trade it in for AD... nevermind, I think I see why this game sucks so much).
Yes agree, But the actual boss is always the 'hard' part of the fight, after all he is a 'boss'. But in this game you put 1 party member on the 'boss' while everybody else tries to deal with a endless spawn of adds.
In this game the bosses do next to nothing, just a odd weapon swing or a AOE atack, it is the adds with have all the mechanics, they can silence you, stun, knock back, drain your AP. LOL, seroulsy
Why in this game are Bosses even called Bosses ? There is nothing at all 'epic' or 'tough' about them at all, you could solo kill most bosses with a cleric if there was no adds !
It is no wonder players are sick of dungeons when dungeons are set up like this, plus the amount of bugs and issues that are present in every instance in the game, they fix 1 only to create another, lol, even the queue finder is bugged
But it seems most dont want to bother anymore, too many issues and broken mechanics, whats the point of struggling for hours to learn and get through some thing that is broken and will more than likely be changed or have a fix the folowing week, which will no doubt break some thing else in the process. i see the problem with the Red circles and danger marks has resurected even though it was 'supposedly' fixed. Makes more sence to not bother and wait until is is hope fully fixed, one day.
So yet another weekend i want to play, but non of my guild are realy intrested in playing 'broken ' content any more. i dont need any gear just wanted to help them get there gear, i just do it for fun and my own entertainment, but its just not fun anymore trying to work through bugged fights and dungeon issues, if anything its just frustration, especialy when some worked ok the previous week.
So my weekend of hoped hours of exspected fun with friends has turned into, just loging 2 of my characters and spending 10 mins to do the Sharandar daily sparks quest, and thats it.........nothing else to do........no body wants to realy do anything..... and understandably there is nothing actually worth doing.
The only time you can use it and expect completion is doing a tier 1.
If you want to do the harder dungeons i suggest you search for a group/players using the lfg channel.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
There are plenty of guilds out there that will help gear you up if you need it.
Yes it is easier with a guild group, but it does not hide the fact that all instances have bugs and issues, guild group or not content is still broken.. many just dont want to play 'broken' content, its just NOT fun. People play a game for fun and entertainment, NOT frustration.
EQ definitely did some things right and I do miss the challenge, the community, and the role play aspect. All those have been lost in modern MMO's. We traded convenience for the journey. As much as people griped about things like taking boat rides and walking for 30 minutes, it really did make the journey memorable because all those trips were dangerous and it made fast travel a pricey luxury. I also loved it a lot more before the auction house when people sat around and sold stuff in ooc chat. I think that auction houses with auto-sort and filters are not good for game longevity just as Diablo III recently discovered. I would rather we just have a bazaar with a bunch of people setting up shop. You click on them to see what they are selling and there is no sort of master hud that tells you what everyone is selling. One thing I hated about EQ though was raiding. It was not a problem during the Verant era, but when Sony took over all they wanted everyone to do was raid. Dont get me wrong, some raids were a great experience but repeating raids is absolutely not fun.
Neverwinter is good. I am not sure it is the MMO for me but it has all sorts of potential despite little things I dont like. One thing I really dont like is the multiple currencies, the buggy auction house filters (I dont like AH's but if you are going to have one at least make it work right), and the fact that basic items are not available in game without money, aka storage space. $10 for a bag? Come on guys. I am willing to spend some money, but the prices have kept me from trusting the company and thus I have not spent any money yet.
if a higher level joins for a lower level dungeon they should be able to port in too if the leader of the party is the right level for the dungeon.
A lot of bad players are getting through this content because of glitches. That is how I see it.
(or so I have been told when I brought up the exact same point)