Rogues are overpowered. Nerf required. Sign this thread.

kershel · November 2013

my friend has a 9K GS PVP GWF.

he got hit by dazing strike for 18K dmg.

he even tried with defensive feats. Rogue was still 2-button mashin/killin.

i have a 9.2K GS CW, with Shield On, tab-slotted, and got hit for 22K with his first move, wasnt daily.

i have 22K HP.

We know we arent that geared yet BUT, we went to speak with the rogue who was laughin at us in PVP and he only had 8.7K GS. And he said : yeah, we have it easy right now.

so dont go saying : ITS A GEAR THING. (also not a skill thing, we been playings MMOs since vanilla wow and been through at least 10 of them)

I played a rogue when we was ambush-backstabbing killing people in WOW and it took what ? a month and we got the nerf ?

this is killing PVP, are we gonna have class balance soon ?

sign if you think rogues should get a nerf.

sadly i had to create this thread, dont flip tables and jump on me, i have a rogue friend in front of me right now and hes totally agreeing with everything my and the GWF are saying.

dont go and discuss on this thread, make your own <<dont nerf rogues>> thread if you have something to say.

thanks.

noxisst · November 2013

It's not just a 'gear thing', it's feats, enchants, ability score, level of skill. If you are getting blown up, then adjust accordingly. There is a balance between offense and defense. I have spent weeks reworking stats, gear, and enchants to increase my own survivability. And yes, the biggest factor of all is skill. A low GS player with good skill and knowledge of stats/feats will have no problem with a higher geared opponent with less understanding of pvp play and stat optimization.

And I hate to burst you bubble, but if a nerf does come our way, it wont be to our damage.

--Noxis

tang56 · November 2013

TR's aren't OP in terms of damage, damage is what they do. Catch a TR on the defensive and typically they're toast. However I just have problem with one or two abilities they have being a bit much in terms of mixing the damage and utility together(well, one ability, IS).

In case you're wondering about the "not a gear thing"...my DC(11.5k) hit a 11k GWF for 16k damage yesterday...think about that. PvP has a lot to do with gear, the right gear goes a long way and for some classes, getting the the point where you are adequately geared is quicker than others. CW and GWF I would say are the slowest to get to good endgame PvP gear levels.

barq3t · November 2013

Nerf rogue topic in Thieves Den section and you are asking for votes...hilarious

BTW I'm 12k gs tr and here is ss of GF hiting me for 19k so you know...

tang56 · November 2013

barq3t wrote: »

Nerf rogue topic in Thieves Den section and you are asking for votes...hilarious

BTW I'm 12k gs tr and here is ss of GF hiting me for 19k so you know...

Knight's challenge is a hell of a thing if your victim isn't paying attention. Personally, I find it too risky in PvP.

kershel · November 2013

catch a TR on the defensive ??

good rogues are never on the defensive.

even with 30 K HP he would still kill me with two skills.

or he can spam that throw thing for 8K a tic while staying permastealth.

cmon guys, get real.

and whoever posted about that GWF hitting him, well if you aint fighting, you aint supposed to get hit, and if you are fighting, the GWF has to hit you at the perfect time while you are actually on a target. And now it comes to you, having bad skills at being a rogue.

i can fight GWF all day.

Rogues just eat me. I would have to roll with a different skill set just to face rogues, and i wouldnt have enuff CCs nor damage to put him down.

this is worst than the ambush-backstab combo Blizzard gave us for a month a couple years ago.

at least we were only killing mages.

decayedsouls · November 2013

Are you really complaining about TR when you can just pound away from 30+ meters? TR is single target dps dude that needs to go in melee to be anywhere as effective as you being a CW just rain **** down from afar. Also asking for a nerf thread in TR forums, well played sir. They already got nerfed.

As Noxis pointed out, it's all about proper enchanting, having a balance of defense and offense and feats. You can't expect to go glassy and not die from 2 hits.

If the glassy TR's giving you trouble, honestly I don't know what you'll do vs the tanky ones that goes deflect/regen.

Better get this somewhere else before this turns into a flame war.

utuwer · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

catch a TR on the defensive ??

good rogues are never on the defensive.

I wonder since when rogue' skills have 0 cooldown.

or he can spam that throw thing for 8K a tic while staying permastealth.

Impact shot reveals rogues unless they are using the daily that regenerates their stealth bar. And it is already nerfed.

cmon guys, get real.

Let get real that you need some tips from veteran pvp cws instead of ranting on rogues' forum.

and whoever posted about that GWF hitting him, well if you aint fighting, you aint supposed to get hit, and if you are fighting, the GWF has to hit you at the perfect time while you are actually on a target. And now it comes to you, having bad skills at being a rogue.

It is inevitable that any player will be caught eventually by others regardless his/her skill.

i can fight GWF all day.

Rogues just eat me. I would have to roll with a different skill set just to face rogues, and i wouldnt have enuff CCs nor damage to put him down.

this is worst than the ambush-backstab combo Blizzard gave us for a month a couple years ago.

at least we were only killing mages.

Too much bias here.

Basically, you just want to be king of the hill. A specific class beats you so that it should be nerfed.

I can make the same statement like yours: " I can fight cw all day.

xx class just eat me. I would have to roll with a different skill set just to face xx class, ... Please nerf that xx class."

There are ton of tips and guides by others for PvP already existed:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?680-The-Library

hidahayabusa · November 2013

Rogues are fine. Perfect Vorpal + R10 rogues are not.

mbllanes199 · November 2013

@TS

You are feeding the trolls, LOL.

dragoncrest0 · November 2013

I shall simply say. Nope.

The only thing I have a problem with on Rogues is Shocking Execution. Thats it. I dislike that daily. I find it cheap.

kinosh30 · November 2013

Just like IceKnife? Lol

dragoncrest0 wrote: »

I shall simply say. Nope.

The only thing I have a problem with on Rogues is Shocking Execution. Thats it. I dislike that daily. I find it cheap.

muhac · November 2013

All Class are fine as they are now TR can kill an squishy build player and like ppl said its a Single Target Damage, CW can kill TR whole day if we get cought in the CC Combo, hell CW can kite and kill anyone any Class from range if played right...

Its just a bit of skill and a lot of Equip and you are good to go, some players here have made multiple Characters with different builds items and sets just to get it right and pwn in pvp and ofc to be able to survive one kills, you just need to get over it sometimes you die other time you own its PVP its how it is, and its not all about killing this aint who gets first to 100 kills pvp here is about caping and maintaining the nodes and CW is great for this since you can pwn ppl and still be able to confest the node or overtake it...

Anyway before you start complaining how some CLass are OP and should be nerfed to the ground read few guides, topics and listen to hardcore CW PVP-ers and ofc do not compare NW to WoW or other MMO-s since its not the same learn to play here and leave other behind, it does not matter how much or where and what you have played before when you come here and start whining about nerfing and "OP class", it is then like you never played any MMO or anything else....gl and hf to you

pers3phone · November 2013

Come back and ask for nerfs if you still find TRs so extremely challenging after you PvP for a month or so and hit 12K+ GS with the CW, spec&geared for PvP.

So see you back in more than a month... with pics of your gear and spec and what specifically annoys you.

darkzar · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

my friend has a 9K GS PVP GWF.

he got hit by dazing strike for 18K dmg.

he even tried with defensive feats. Rogue was still 2-button mashin/killin.

i have a 9.2K GS CW, with Shield On, tab-slotted, and got hit for 22K with his first move, wasnt daily.

i have 22K HP.

We know we arent that geared yet BUT, we went to speak with the rogue who was laughin at us in PVP and he only had 8.7K GS. And he said : yeah, we have it easy right now.

so dont go saying : ITS A GEAR THING. (also not a skill thing, we been playings MMOs since vanilla wow and been through at least 10 of them)

I played a rogue when we was ambush-backstabbing killing people in WOW and it took what ? a month and we got the nerf ?

this is killing PVP, are we gonna have class balance soon ?

sign if you think rogues should get a nerf.

sadly i had to create this thread, dont flip tables and jump on me, i have a rogue friend in front of me right now and hes totally agreeing with everything my and the GWF are saying.

dont go and discuss on this thread, make your own <<dont nerf rogues>> thread if you have something to say.

thanks.

No offense but you can't really ask for a nerf if you havent tested what end-game is like. Once a GWF gears up hes pretty much unkillable and requires a daily to kill. And as for you: Rock, paper, scissors man, you do extremely well against some classes, as do other people depending on their class, don't expect the Rogue's to be nerfed because they're a good counter class for CW's.

Different levels are dominated by different classes, and on the 8-9k GS ratings, Rogue is usually better because his skills hit hard naturally, however, a lot changes when you start acquiring new stuff, so go for it and then review what your opinion is, unless you plan to be at 9k GS forever.

Unknown · November 2013

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zuthuul · November 2013

I'm probably going to get bashed for saying this, but I see a lot of people complaining about the power of a TR and how much damage they do. Look at almost any other MMO with a rogue or assassin class. That class is specifically designed to have stealth and deal loads of damage. Sure TRs might be able to exploit a perfect vorpal better than other classes due to their crit rate (even though CWs can easily do this as well with Nightmare Wizardry, but that's not the topic of this post), but that's not something that should be held against the TR class. As far as damage goes, yes, TRs have a few big hit skills that are brutal when they crit, but just about every other class has a high damaging skill if they are specced right. My GWF can crit (without a vorpal) at about 25k on IBS. He also has skills that allow him to close the gap, knockdown, and has the ability to become invulnerable and heal himself. My GF has 30k+ hp, 7500 power, etc. and he can easily control a single target better than a CW with frontline surge, bull's charge, and Indomitable strength. My CW can have a 100% crit rate and high Arp and chew through enemies at a distance. I'm just saying that just because a class can kill quickly and pop back into stealth to drop aggro, doesn't make it OP. I understand the feelings toward ItC and IS, but I've seen so many TRs miss that first IS and just get completely obliterated. The ones that people will mainly complain about are the exceptionally geared players who know exactly how to make the build work and run. You find those in every class. The sad thing about pvp in NW is that it's not just skill based, but gear based as well. But with that in mind, there is a technique to counter every class. In my book, I only consider a class OP when I can't find a counter to it. And the great thing about finding a counter to a class that destroys you a lot is that it will help against the other classes. This post isn't meant to be a "learn to play" post, but with only a few skills, this game becomes more dynamic.

In all honesty, please stop complaining about certain skills or certain classes due to a few bad pvp matches. Not too long ago there were cries for a nerf of GWF for their sentinel spec. The devs followed through and destroyed Unstoppable. CWs just got a shield nerf and an HV set fix due to cries for their over use in PvE. But really, there is a balance to the game. An old style of balance where certain classes are better against other classes, but weak to one. Just find your own balance and stop making these posts and actually flood the forums with real issues like exploits, quitters and whatever. Don't flood the forums with cries for the devs to nerf a class just because it kills you in pvp more than other classes do.

donblacksheep · November 2013

9K gs pug asking for nerf cuz u die with 1 shot brah?
My cw never got one shoted by any rogue, i got 28k+ life (without the 3rd boon),8,5% life regen, and i can kill them like **** if they make one single mistake, all u need on most of the cases is one rotation of ur spells after ITC is over,a bit of luck on crits and on the eye of storm of course, and gg rogue.
Go gear up, and study a bit about play style, builds, gears, etc, then come back here.

PS : My main character is a TR, CW is just my alt.

bkloes · November 2013

I agree with Zuth...and others. Its basically balanced until you add in enchants and end game gear with proper spec. People need to not complain because they get beat by someone/class in a match. The other day I was bounced like popcorn until I felt like leaving by 2 GF. I am not a stealth rogue and have gotten on some laughable matches with a GWF on a point....I try to whittle off some HP while running away from his stunning attacks. Back and forth we get no where...or if I mess up I end up dying. I hate having too many TR in a PvP party so the example of rolling 5 would be horrible. Personally my build does not take points well, not being perma stealth. CW can kill me from range and GF bounce my skinny *** off the point. I won't even begin to complain about teams that have a DC:) Stupid healers:) lol....

kinosh30 · November 2013

ROFL Another QQ Thread? Really? Man people learn to play your class.

tang56 · November 2013

kinosh30 wrote: »

ROFL Another QQ Thread? Really? Man people learn to play your class.

I would say people should learn to play every class. Being at least competent with each class gives you insights into how to counter them on your favorite classes.

dragoncrest0 · November 2013

kinosh30 wrote: »

Just like IceKnife? Lol

Iceknife isnt so bad, Since you can actually dodge it.

kershel · November 2013

it's not a QQ thread.

like i said, i have a rogue friend who was agreeing with me and i read a bunch of posts on the forums, and i spoke with a bunch of rogues and CW in game.

most of you here said : "its like in the old days, that class can kill that class" well, how come TR eats CWs and can still deliver 18K hits on a plate-wearer then ?

if you dont want a nerf guys, we need A LOT more HP.

one of you said : well a TR can still get caught in the CW CC rotation ! ROFL !!!!!! ROFL !!!!! good TRs will never get caught in a CW rotation. And if they do, they already killed their main target and they have to be extremely lucky cause the CW has to use his CC to survive on whatever comes to eat him. So if, and i say if, the CW still has a full rotation with a daily, yeah maybe. But thats a lot of IFs compared to the TR odds.

i dont want you guys to loose everything, like i said, it aint a QQ thread, nor a rage one.

i just want this game to be much more fun to play for everyone.

btw I haz a lvl 40 sumthing TR and i played a rogue in 90 % of the MMOs i played. I LOVE rogues. But this, to me, is ridiculous.

and like i said i read a bunch of threads on the forums and i saw a bunch of TRs saying they are overpowered in a LOT of threads.

but when it comes to nerf/balance....naw...ya aint overpowered.

funny huh ?

zuthuul · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

most of you here said : "its like in the old days, that class can kill that class" well, how come TR eats CWs and can still deliver 18K hits on a plate-wearer then ?

It's all about spec and gear. I run my TR with high armor pen (~24%). I also specced to have a 50% crit rate in addition to a greater vorpal. With that in mind, I knowingly chose to relinquish some power and recovery for these attributes and the addition of life steal. I also run with r7-8 enchants (not cheap, but not the best). It really is gear and skill based. That's how I can still hit for 18k on plate.

kershel wrote: »

if you dont want a nerf guys, we need A LOT more HP.

I could see this happening, but then you get into WOW type health levels. Much higher health will just diminish the fast-paced nature of some PvP. And overall, higher health will eventually call for an increase in damage to match the greater health. All of these skills have trade-offs. There's a reason that you can only slot one enchant per piece. If you want higher health, then you need to relinquish some offensive power to bring up your defenses and vice versa. What you really need to do is experiment and find a build that you like and works well for you.

kershel · November 2013

zuthuul wrote: »

It's all about spec and gear. I run my TR with high armor pen (~24%). I also specced to have a 50% crit rate in addition to a greater vorpal. With that in mind, I knowingly chose to relinquish some power and recovery for these attributes and the addition of life steal. I also run with r7-8 enchants (not cheap, but not the best). It really is gear and skill based. That's how I can still hit for 18k on plate.

well, you shouldnt be able to do that imo.

you talkin about WOW but at least new players had a chance at PVP.

now to get the daily 4 000 AD you have to queue and requeue cause noobs are leaving when theyre is no one to carry.

on the other side, if i join a game with someone who can carry, the other team leave and we end up waiting doing nothing.

BORING.

and thats just if you want your 4 000 AD.

sometimes i feel like PVPing all day just for fun but im like naw, gotta find a way to increase my ADs. And just to be on par gearwise with you perfect vorpals guys or whatever i have months work ahead. Im not putting real money in this game. Sitting at 500 000 AD right trying to figure out if I buy a stone of ioun or just save for out of price enchants. (and I spoke with a 14K GS CW, and he told me : I dont survive against TRs dude, no way, thats why im pure nuking, 40K crits) so getting gear, again, wont save me from you guys. Its just gonna give me more kills.

bleh.

Ill lvl my TR and just eat everyone with a nice spec and 8.3K GS i guess.

dkcandy · November 2013

Yes please nerf TRs, CWs, GWFs, DCs.... Especially DCs!

Thank You.

Could you please buff the GF base tooltip dmg. Specifically Bull Charge, Lunge, Frontline and maybe bump Knights Challenge while you are at it to say 150% dmg increase???

Thanks,

pers3phone · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

and I spoke with a 14K GS CW, and he told me : I dont survive against TRs dude, no way, thats why im pure nuking, 40K crits) so getting gear, again, wont save me from you guys. Its just gonna give me more kills.

Well he's wrong. There are many CWs specced for PvP with lots of HP and good gear not nearly 14K GS and they have a fair chance against similarly geared TRs. But yeah the TR has the upper hand in this I'd say, since he can open up for 20K from stealth and you have a fraction of a second to blink, or he can stun from 15K from stealth, followed by more hurtful HAMSTER. But if you survive (hence the need for 30K-ish HP), then you start the CC chain and with a lucky crit they might be dead.

I'm curious to see GTE CWs against GTE TRs tho'. Never saw any duels in this category.

zuthuul · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

well, you shouldnt be able to do that imo.

Why shouldn't I? Isn't that the point of armor penetration, crit and a vorpal? If I maxed those on any other class, I could do the same.

kershel wrote: »

I spoke with a 14K GS CW, and he told me : I dont survive against TRs dude, no way, thats why im pure nuking, 40K crits) so getting gear, again, wont save me from you guys. Its just gonna give me more kills.

I get wrecked by all classes alike. It happens, so I deal with it, move on and rework my strategy for each match to make sure i come out on top. If you complain about being eaten alive by TRs, and then go around claiming that CWs can do 40k crits along with loads of control powers, then I think you have the wrong idea as to which class needs the nerfing. Every class has it's weakness. CWs have the lowest defense out of every class. That's the weakness. TRs have the second lowest and then it varies from there. If TRs were as OP as you claim them to be, then shouldn't we be able to do 40k+ crits to GFs and senti GWFs? If a class is unkillable and deals that high damage (which no class is) then it is OP. Until then, adapt your play style. I personally find it more fun to have to change my strategy with each match. Again, I'm not trying to tell you to learn to play, I'm just saying adapt your style and be dynamic in battle. Change out some skills and try something new. Who cares if you don't win every match? There's no ranked standings so why does it even matter? I know I don't win every match. Some matches I come out 25-6-28, others I come out as 5-11-16. It really depends on the match.

munkey81 · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

btw I haz a lvl 40 sumthing TR..... funny huh

Lvl 40 and talking about balance issues in PvP?

You are way out of your element my friend.

Your like a kid bragging how awesome the new corvette is, yet you've never driven one. You've just "heard" it is.

Get to 60, then make your own opinions.

Because your 14k gs CW friend gets melted so he says by TR's..Doesn't mean TR's are OP. Just means your 14kgs CW needs some practice.

I know a couple 10k CW's that will roflstomp most very, very good TR's.

esteena · November 2013

I'm pretty sure he is trolling :P.

yogokou · November 2013

kershel wrote: »

sometimes i feel like PVPing all day just for fun but im like naw, gotta find a way to increase my ADs. And just to be on par gearwise with you perfect vorpals guys or whatever i have months work ahead.

We've all been through that. Don't worry too much about PVP till they make a ranking system and put some leaver penalties, it's nothing to get serious about. And trust me you don't need perfect vorpals and R10 to be good in pvp.

Rogues are overpowered. Nerf required. Sign this thread.

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