I don't have points in either Shield or Repel and I do just fine. It's all about playstyle. There are ways to play without resorting to pushing off cliffs, but then those people aren't interested in fun, challenges, strategy and skill.
shield is good to have for damage resistance and repel is good for spell, thats about it
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Yet another change that will affect only the little guy, i.e. the not-so-geared mage. For any geared CW, having Shield on means a wasted DPS slot 99% of the times (yes, there are some exceptions).
Just watch closely when you play a DD with a geared party what happens with the HP of the mobs when the CWs start their usual Steal Time/Shard/Sudden Storm/Oppressive Force AoE rotation... they hardly need to shield-pop mobs off cliffs.
Good job Cryptic... yes, make the game even harder for those starting to play it.
And no, people will take more CWs for difficult content just as they took before patch, not because we can bump things, but because we can burn the hell out of anything while keeping things under CC as well.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
All this will do is make it more difficult for new 60's to finish the "million and one addzzzzzzz......" style original dungeons since they don't already have the gear required to burn the adds before they burn you(regardless of party makeup). Basically another badly thought out content gate for new players.
It has little to no effect on already geared parties for whom burning everything is often quicker than the sing->shield push anyway, I never run shield unless the party is specifically requesting that I push(or the fight requires a little extra damage resistance because the DC is otherwise engaged).
I think the change was made just so people would stop getting so many CW's in the same party, they are now less useful, giving others more chance to shine.
I think this is a very naive line of thought. I am sure this is also what the devs are thinking too, but we have consistently seen more and more groups want more and more CWs. Each time that nerf the CW, people think "well I guess I should take a GWF instead" what they actually think (and this is based on ingame group requests) is "now I HAVE to have at least 3 CWs."
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
I run in super fast speed run dungeons all the time with 2-3 cws and i never use shield and rarely ever use singularity. Nothing irks me more than having a random cw join and see singu's popping up all the time. I can count on 1 hand the precise locations where singularity/shield is more efficient than opressive force/shard. 2 spots in sp, 1 in spider, and 2 in cn.
This changes nothing except in wannabe elite "speed run exp" that take longer than just grabbing randoms from lfg and killing everything. Hopefully this will put an end to sing bots but sadly itll just reinforce 3 cw in those groups.
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spanky2014Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 78
Yet another change that will affect only the little guy, i.e. the not-so-geared mage. For any geared CW, having Shield on means a wasted DPS slot 99% of the times (yes, there are some exceptions).
Just watch closely when you play a DD with a geared party what happens with the HP of the mobs when the CWs start their usual Steal Time/Shard/Sudden Storm/Oppressive Force AoE rotation... they hardly need to shield-pop mobs off cliffs.
Good job Cryptic... yes, make the game even harder for those starting to play it.
And no, people will take more CWs for difficult content just as they took before patch, not because we can bump things, but because we can burn the hell out of anything while keeping things under CC as well.
Pretty much this. For low geared CW pushing/bumping is the most efficient method.
For geared CW, it is just steamroll...
As I said early on, there are only so many spots on a team so one can only stack CW so far until there is no place to go. Hopefully, they will find a better approach to the situation than continuing to reduce CW power to the point where even five on a team isn't enough.
Ideally it will be along the lines krisst0f suggested, adjusting dungeons so they present situations in which the abilities of all classes will have their moment to be the most effective, so that each class will have virtues that can clearly be perceived by the players, rather than trying to weaken classes so players will feel compelled to diversify their group.
I think that as long as gwf has abilities that can effect all the mobs in a stack, this is a move in the right direction as it gives synergy between the classes. One class lumps the mobs, the other wacks them down.
I know i am not at the high end of play yet, mostly still just pug lower end DDs like idris and CC so I have a good chance to complete. Last night we ran idris with a DC, GFW, GF, and 2 trs. I figured it would be a wipe with no cw, but the gwf and GF had excellent synergy of stacking and wacking, so while this bums me out on my cw, I see this as a move in the right direction 'as a game'.
People that want to run all CW will do that regardless. cannot change the way others play, but i like to see where there seems to be a sysnergistic direction for a change. Then again, this could be a leveling the playing field thing. most powers only work on up to 5 mobs, why should this be different. Also, if i understand correctly, while steal time only freezes 5 mobs, it still damages all of them, and sunburt only moves 5, but will still heal 5 party members... so does this mean only 5 are thrown but additional mobs still take damage or do i have this totally wrong?
What a very bad change before adding something to counter balance its loss.
As it is people want to stack CWs in dungeons because they are so heavily in demand because they have all the CC basically.
So now infinite add fights need more CWs to handle them.
We all know in PVE CW is the winner in just about all control and their is an absurd amount of weight put upon them to handle adds. So yes over time there needs to be a lessening of CW power but it needs to be redistributed to other classes so they can pick up the slack and so the same formations will be viable in parties. This change is missing the redistribution and balance. It just takes away power with no addition back in and actually gives incentive to increase CWs in parties.
as if we didn't have enough of that...
I see more of nerd rage full of bile and hatred against CWs in here than actual arguments.
I main-ed CW since the game went live. I got sick of playing CW recently and gave a shot to other classes (Decently geared) except GF in end game content. It was rather easy to see why CWs are favored so much.
Broken. Overpowered. DPS.
It's hilarious. And not just AoE as some folks are claiming here, the single target DPS is through the roof if you know what you're doing.
Nightmare Wizardry - This needs to be removed or fixed to stop it from stacking. There is something terribly wrong with this feat you'll know if you've tried it.
Shield, Steal time, Shard, Sudden storm, Oppressive force, 3rd hit of Chilling Cloud - DPS needs to be toned down by a large amount. Perhaps make them deal less damage for every additional target hit.
Conduit of Ice - Seemingly harmless if you aren't a Thaumaturge. Does some funny stuff when mobs are clumped up. Only the original target needs to have it's mitigation lowered.
Overabundance of crowd control is NOT the problem with CWs right now. In fact they could use some buffs to CC if aforementioned skills are fixed. Whats the point of Control wizard if they don't bring CC to the table?
Sorry Cryptic. Imho this nerf was silly and uncalled for.
Btw I was expecting teneb nerf. What happened to it?
/popcorn
I see more of nerd rage full of bile and hatred against CWs in here than actual arguments.
I main-ed CW since the game went live. I got sick of playing CW recently and gave a shot to other classes (Decently geared) except GF in end game content. It was rather easy to see why CWs are favored so much.
Broken. Overpowered. DPS.
It's hilarious. And not just AoE as some folks are claiming here, the single target DPS is through the roof if you know what you're doing.
Nightmare Wizardry - This needs to be removed or fixed to stop it from stacking. There is something terribly wrong with this feat you'll know if you've tried it.
Shield, Steal time, Shard, Sudden storm, Oppressive force, 3rd hit of Chilling Cloud - DPS needs to be toned down by a large amount. Perhaps make them deal less damage for every additional target hit.
Conduit of Ice - Seemingly harmless if you aren't a Thaumaturge. Does some funny stuff when mobs are clumped up. Only the original target needs to have it's mitigation lowered.
Overabundance of crowd control is NOT the problem with CWs right now. In fact they could use some buffs to CC if aforementioned skills are fixed. Whats the point of Control wizard if they don't bring CC to the table?
Sorry Cryptic. Imho this nerf was silly and uncalled for.
Btw I was expecting teneb nerf. What happened to it?
/popcorn
Though I'm one of the main guys who's starting to give up any pretense of being 'fair and balanced' and just going all out anti-CW, I will say that Revocaine seems to explain my experiences and opinions better.
CC isn't the issue. It's the ability of a CW to do single-target or aoe damage better than the melee classes. In so many situations, it simply is easier for everyone to run around and dodge and nuke the whole lot of aggro, than strategically adjust.
Not that dungeons aren't a problem. They are probably the real problem to it all. But CW damage is outright disgusting if you have tried any other class than TR.
I'm hoping HR helps me alleviate some of my CW envy.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Though I'm one of the main guys who's starting to give up any pretense of being 'fair and balanced' and just going all out anti-CW, I will say that Revocaine seems to explain my experiences and opinions better.
CC isn't the issue. It's the ability of a CW to do single-target or aoe damage better than the melee classes. In so many situations, it simply is easier for everyone to run around and dodge and nuke the whole lot of aggro, than strategically adjust.
Not that dungeons aren't a problem. They are probably the real problem to it all. But CW damage is outright disgusting if you have tried any other class than TR.
I'm hoping HR helps me alleviate some of my CW envy.
So u gonna throw me some of the gwfs and gfs survivability once ur wet dream of nerfing cws goes live?? I mean yeah we do a ridicilus amount of aoe damage as of right now, so we can kill trash mobs faster than any other class, yahhh i guess!?
Our singel dps is a joke though, we are nowhere near TR,GF(not sure about gwf) as it should be.
Furthermore we are by fare the most worthless class in pvp, no survivability, no hp no damage...
So u gonna throw me some of the gwfs and gfs survivability once ur wet dream of nerfing cws goes live?? I mean yeah we do a ridicilus amount of aoe damage as of right now, so we can kill trash mobs faster than any other class, yahhh i guess!?
Our singel dps is a joke though, we are nowhere near TR,GF(not sure about gwf) as it should be.
Furthermore we are by fare the most worthless class in pvp, no survivability, no hp no damage...
Agreed, your ability in PvP is horrible, at least arena. In GG, a good CW can do wonders.
But you can argue that this makes it perfectly alright for you to do better damage than a melee class, AT RANGE, in PvE? I mean, c'mon! You don't have to approach the enemy, there's no down time because of the big red, and if the rest of your team is doing it right, you never really even get threatened.
When you can say your single-target DPS is a joke, but can spec it well enough to do better damage than the GWF ... um, what does that tell you?
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Agreed, your ability in PvP is horrible, at least arena. In GG, a good CW can do wonders.
But you can argue that this makes it perfectly alright for you to do better damage than a melee class, AT RANGE, in PvE? I mean, c'mon! You don't have to approach the enemy, there's no down time because of the big red, and if the rest of your team is doing it right, you never really even get threatened.
When you can say your single-target DPS is a joke, but can spec it well enough to do better damage than the GWF ... um, what does that tell you?
No idea if that is true or not(never played a gwf, but they own me constantly in pvp:)) but so we can spec our singel target dps to be better than another aoe class singel target dps??
I can argue that our dps is a LOT lower than the TR, we might be able to do more damage than the GWF, but pretty sure well specced and well geared GF is souppose to do atleast the same amount of aoe dps as the CW, add in the fact that they actually have survivability and own in PVP, makes this game seems pretty well balanced(except if u are a gwf in pve obv., but thats hardly the CW's fault...) to me...
Overabundance of crowd control is NOT the problem with CWs right now. In fact they could use some buffs to CC if aforementioned skills are fixed. Whats the point of Control wizard if they don't bring CC to the table?
Sorry Cryptic. Imho this nerf was silly and uncalled for.
/popcorn
i really like this nerf cause it reduces mob throwing, smth i really hate, especially when ppl cant do it right and it takes 2x longer to get rid of the mobs than simply killing
and cws could easily lose half of their aoe dmg and still be needed in parties. single target dmg is fine. they shold force cw to chose dps vs control + 3rd path more pvp focused
No idea if that is true or not(never played a gwf, but they own me constantly in pvp:)) but so we can spec our singel target dps to be better than another aoe class singel target dps??
I can argue that our dps is a LOT lower than the TR, we might be able to do more damage than the GWF, but pretty sure well specced and well geared GF is souppose to do atleast the same amount of aoe dps as the CW, add in the fact that they actually have survivability and own in PVP, makes this game seems pretty well balanced(except if u are a gwf in pve obv., but thats hardly the CW's fault...) to me...
And yes
Which is why I stand by my earlier assertions: boycott CW's.
It isn't the mechanics that are broke. Just the arrogance of the players.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Good CW's didn't use shield prior to this change....it really is a waste of an encounter slot
I stopped using shield ages ago on my CW. My CW does more damage than any other class. However, this is due to the way dungeons are designed. The bulk of the encounters are hordes of trash monsters, so my AoE adds up in the millions without even trying.
When the encounter size is about 2-4 (such as MotH)rather than 8+, a good offense built GF will be able to compete for damage. If encounters are single target (very rare) then it's a toss up between GF and TR.
However, given that hordes of trash monsters is how things are designed pretty much everywhere in this game, CW remains king for damage. CC certainly doesn't need a nerf at all. But then, I don't really care about shield's popping effect. The damage absorption is far more important in the few situations where it's useful.
And, whoever said CW isn't that good in PvP.... so, so very incorrect.
As a DC I thoroughly enjoy having a tank in the group, whether it is a GF or sentinel GWF (yes I just said sentinel). But seriously there are a couple GWFs in my guild that are friggin amazing tanks and do crazy damage. I love them. People really need to start appreciating our rough and tough melee buddies more in this game.
As a DC I thoroughly enjoy having a tank in the group, whether it is a GF or sentinel GWF (yes I just said sentinel). But seriously there are a couple GWFs in my guild that are friggin amazing tanks and do crazy damage. I love them. People really need to start appreciating our rough and tough melee buddies more in this game.
Sincerely, thank you.
I've met a lot of DC's who love having GF's and GWF's along. I've met a lot of GF's and other GWF's who equally enjoy melee company.
It doesn't strike me as odd that I've met a lot of TR's who could care less who else comes along. Many seem to see themselves as a one-man-army anyhow, and are far less group directed than most.
And honestly, dungeons do favor CW's heavily, and many players who would honestly prefer to play other classes, have switched to CW because of their capabilities, which are numerous. Simply nerfing CW isn't going to fix the real issues at hand, though. Which is dungeon design.
Big open areas. Tons of adds. No true reason for aggro control because good CW's can avoid aggro so easily anyhow. Not enough CC immune adds. No magic immunity at all. No dedicated AI that targets specific class roles above others. Not enough ranged-capable adds that are *smart* enough to avoid the melee characters.
As much as I hate to admit it, CW AOE damage capabilities aren't the biggest issue. And their ability to push mobs is perfectly fine in my opinion.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
syka08Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
So... I'm in Nimzo's Redcap farm since it counts as a daily and I'm using SotEA. 6 witheres pop up around a single circle that you activate and are all within SotEA's AoE. And then I start noticing something when I work in a way to push the shard into the middle of the circle.
Only 5 witherers are knocked down and damaged. A 6th one comes out unscathed every time.
So I play with this a bit more, even slotting SotEA so that it drops into the exact middle of the circle, activate circle, and just stand there and wait for it to explode (no pushing). And it's still only effecting FIVE mobs.
So, am I just late to the ball game on noticing this because now I'm hyper-aware of more CW limitations? Or is this something new to you folks as well?
You stand in place in FH tanking all the adds? thats nuts, I aggro them all and have them chase me in a circle around the boss like a choo choo train I am! CHOOOO CHOOOOO!
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited October 2013
. . . . . I rarely use shield anyway so doesn't bother me. When I do use it, I only use it for the resistance part and not the knock-back/damage. I usually use enfeeblement instead of shield in that slot, only switching in certain circumstances. Plus, in a group, knocking back is an annoyance to the party much of the time. If I'm being hit by something, either I'm doing something wrong or the guardian fighter is... or its an act of the gods... usually it's just me.
[...Shard of the Endless Avalanche has a target limit of 5...]
So, am I just late to the ball game on noticing this because now I'm hyper-aware of more CW limitations? Or is this something new to you folks as well?
...Nothing irks me more than having a random cw join and see singu's popping up all the time. I can count on 1 hand the precise locations where singularity/shield is more efficient than opressive force/shard. 2 spots in sp, 1 in spider, and 2 in cn.
Let me guess!
Sp 1st and final boss; CN 2nd and 4th boss, Tos?? final boss?
Comments
Rar'rizton Kenana, Level 60 Drow Elf Trickster Rogue
Syrus Greycloak, Level 30 Moon Elf Control Wizard
Lucan Huntinghawk, Level 17 Moon Elf Hunter Ranger
Sacred Silver Blades (www.sacredkeep.com)
Just watch closely when you play a DD with a geared party what happens with the HP of the mobs when the CWs start their usual Steal Time/Shard/Sudden Storm/Oppressive Force AoE rotation... they hardly need to shield-pop mobs off cliffs.
Good job Cryptic... yes, make the game even harder for those starting to play it.
And no, people will take more CWs for difficult content just as they took before patch, not because we can bump things, but because we can burn the hell out of anything while keeping things under CC as well.
It has little to no effect on already geared parties for whom burning everything is often quicker than the sing->shield push anyway, I never run shield unless the party is specifically requesting that I push(or the fight requires a little extra damage resistance because the DC is otherwise engaged).
I think this is a very naive line of thought. I am sure this is also what the devs are thinking too, but we have consistently seen more and more groups want more and more CWs. Each time that nerf the CW, people think "well I guess I should take a GWF instead" what they actually think (and this is based on ingame group requests) is "now I HAVE to have at least 3 CWs."
- JailBreak (in development)
This changes nothing except in wannabe elite "speed run exp" that take longer than just grabbing randoms from lfg and killing everything. Hopefully this will put an end to sing bots but sadly itll just reinforce 3 cw in those groups.
Pretty much this. For low geared CW pushing/bumping is the most efficient method.
For geared CW, it is just steamroll...
Ideally it will be along the lines krisst0f suggested, adjusting dungeons so they present situations in which the abilities of all classes will have their moment to be the most effective, so that each class will have virtues that can clearly be perceived by the players, rather than trying to weaken classes so players will feel compelled to diversify their group.
I know i am not at the high end of play yet, mostly still just pug lower end DDs like idris and CC so I have a good chance to complete. Last night we ran idris with a DC, GFW, GF, and 2 trs. I figured it would be a wipe with no cw, but the gwf and GF had excellent synergy of stacking and wacking, so while this bums me out on my cw, I see this as a move in the right direction 'as a game'.
People that want to run all CW will do that regardless. cannot change the way others play, but i like to see where there seems to be a sysnergistic direction for a change. Then again, this could be a leveling the playing field thing. most powers only work on up to 5 mobs, why should this be different. Also, if i understand correctly, while steal time only freezes 5 mobs, it still damages all of them, and sunburt only moves 5, but will still heal 5 party members... so does this mean only 5 are thrown but additional mobs still take damage or do i have this totally wrong?
As it is people want to stack CWs in dungeons because they are so heavily in demand because they have all the CC basically.
So now infinite add fights need more CWs to handle them.
We all know in PVE CW is the winner in just about all control and their is an absurd amount of weight put upon them to handle adds. So yes over time there needs to be a lessening of CW power but it needs to be redistributed to other classes so they can pick up the slack and so the same formations will be viable in parties. This change is missing the redistribution and balance. It just takes away power with no addition back in and actually gives incentive to increase CWs in parties.
as if we didn't have enough of that...
I main-ed CW since the game went live. I got sick of playing CW recently and gave a shot to other classes (Decently geared) except GF in end game content. It was rather easy to see why CWs are favored so much.
Broken. Overpowered. DPS.
It's hilarious. And not just AoE as some folks are claiming here, the single target DPS is through the roof if you know what you're doing.
Nightmare Wizardry - This needs to be removed or fixed to stop it from stacking. There is something terribly wrong with this feat you'll know if you've tried it.
Shield, Steal time, Shard, Sudden storm, Oppressive force, 3rd hit of Chilling Cloud - DPS needs to be toned down by a large amount. Perhaps make them deal less damage for every additional target hit.
Conduit of Ice - Seemingly harmless if you aren't a Thaumaturge. Does some funny stuff when mobs are clumped up. Only the original target needs to have it's mitigation lowered.
Overabundance of crowd control is NOT the problem with CWs right now. In fact they could use some buffs to CC if aforementioned skills are fixed. Whats the point of Control wizard if they don't bring CC to the table?
Sorry Cryptic. Imho this nerf was silly and uncalled for.
Btw I was expecting teneb nerf. What happened to it?
/popcorn
Though I'm one of the main guys who's starting to give up any pretense of being 'fair and balanced' and just going all out anti-CW, I will say that Revocaine seems to explain my experiences and opinions better.
CC isn't the issue. It's the ability of a CW to do single-target or aoe damage better than the melee classes. In so many situations, it simply is easier for everyone to run around and dodge and nuke the whole lot of aggro, than strategically adjust.
Not that dungeons aren't a problem. They are probably the real problem to it all. But CW damage is outright disgusting if you have tried any other class than TR.
I'm hoping HR helps me alleviate some of my CW envy.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
So u gonna throw me some of the gwfs and gfs survivability once ur wet dream of nerfing cws goes live?? I mean yeah we do a ridicilus amount of aoe damage as of right now, so we can kill trash mobs faster than any other class, yahhh i guess!?
Our singel dps is a joke though, we are nowhere near TR,GF(not sure about gwf) as it should be.
Furthermore we are by fare the most worthless class in pvp, no survivability, no hp no damage...
Agreed, your ability in PvP is horrible, at least arena. In GG, a good CW can do wonders.
But you can argue that this makes it perfectly alright for you to do better damage than a melee class, AT RANGE, in PvE? I mean, c'mon! You don't have to approach the enemy, there's no down time because of the big red, and if the rest of your team is doing it right, you never really even get threatened.
When you can say your single-target DPS is a joke, but can spec it well enough to do better damage than the GWF ... um, what does that tell you?
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
No idea if that is true or not(never played a gwf, but they own me constantly in pvp:)) but so we can spec our singel target dps to be better than another aoe class singel target dps??
I can argue that our dps is a LOT lower than the TR, we might be able to do more damage than the GWF, but pretty sure well specced and well geared GF is souppose to do atleast the same amount of aoe dps as the CW, add in the fact that they actually have survivability and own in PVP, makes this game seems pretty well balanced(except if u are a gwf in pve obv., but thats hardly the CW's fault...) to me...
And yes
i really like this nerf cause it reduces mob throwing, smth i really hate, especially when ppl cant do it right and it takes 2x longer to get rid of the mobs than simply killing
and cws could easily lose half of their aoe dmg and still be needed in parties. single target dmg is fine. they shold force cw to chose dps vs control + 3rd path more pvp focused
Which is why I stand by my earlier assertions: boycott CW's.
It isn't the mechanics that are broke. Just the arrogance of the players.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I stopped using shield ages ago on my CW. My CW does more damage than any other class. However, this is due to the way dungeons are designed. The bulk of the encounters are hordes of trash monsters, so my AoE adds up in the millions without even trying.
When the encounter size is about 2-4 (such as MotH)rather than 8+, a good offense built GF will be able to compete for damage. If encounters are single target (very rare) then it's a toss up between GF and TR.
However, given that hordes of trash monsters is how things are designed pretty much everywhere in this game, CW remains king for damage. CC certainly doesn't need a nerf at all. But then, I don't really care about shield's popping effect. The damage absorption is far more important in the few situations where it's useful.
And, whoever said CW isn't that good in PvP.... so, so very incorrect.
Sincerely, thank you.
I've met a lot of DC's who love having GF's and GWF's along. I've met a lot of GF's and other GWF's who equally enjoy melee company.
It doesn't strike me as odd that I've met a lot of TR's who could care less who else comes along. Many seem to see themselves as a one-man-army anyhow, and are far less group directed than most.
And honestly, dungeons do favor CW's heavily, and many players who would honestly prefer to play other classes, have switched to CW because of their capabilities, which are numerous. Simply nerfing CW isn't going to fix the real issues at hand, though. Which is dungeon design.
Big open areas. Tons of adds. No true reason for aggro control because good CW's can avoid aggro so easily anyhow. Not enough CC immune adds. No magic immunity at all. No dedicated AI that targets specific class roles above others. Not enough ranged-capable adds that are *smart* enough to avoid the melee characters.
As much as I hate to admit it, CW AOE damage capabilities aren't the biggest issue. And their ability to push mobs is perfectly fine in my opinion.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Only 5 witherers are knocked down and damaged. A 6th one comes out unscathed every time.
So I play with this a bit more, even slotting SotEA so that it drops into the exact middle of the circle, activate circle, and just stand there and wait for it to explode (no pushing). And it's still only effecting FIVE mobs.
So, am I just late to the ball game on noticing this because now I'm hyper-aware of more CW limitations? Or is this something new to you folks as well?
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Let me guess!
Sp 1st and final boss; CN 2nd and 4th boss, Tos?? final boss?
Just post a video here running CN with 5 GWFs and full clearing it. Cant wait to actually watch it.
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
The squishiest, most vulnerable, robe-clad class in the game... has best (AoE) damage.
It's been like this in many RPGs. I rolled my CW specifically to deal lots of DPS, in the vein of what my WoW mage did, together with some CC.
The CW damage is quite OK I'd say. The other classes should come closer though than they are now... but at the expense of their tankyness.
- you shouldn't be able to heal AND push large DPS as well
- you shouldn't be able to tank AND push large DPS as well
Squishy char-->big DPS
Tanky/healing char-->low DPS
Hybrids in between.