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Role Play's Status in Neverwinter: The Forgotten Crowd
floingis
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
Well, hello there. I've come to the forums in search -and perhaps well thought out discussion- of the current status of Role Play and Role Play support within Neverwinter, as clearly stated by the title of this post.
** Let me start off this thread by stating that; I am here to bring the issues of Role Play in Neverwinter, a little into the light. There have been many thread discussing this topic; however, this is one of the Neverwinter Role Playing Community's concerns and criticism of Neverwinter as a whole. Issues I've found are brought up frequently amongst the community - Me being a Roleplayer myself. **
I am not here to whine, cry, start a flame war, use jargon to make myself feel justified, denounce the game and my support, or threaten for change - These are my thoughts and opinions, hold none to your own if you so choose.
With that said, let's get started shall we?
1. The Moonstone Mask
Ah, the Moonstone Mask. Neverwinter's hot spot for adventurers to gather after a long day of doing adventuring things and mingle with one another. The music, the crowd, the open bar, the atmosphere; a jolly old place for characters to meet, and most of the time it is.
However, as of recent weeks it has been mostly packed with mobs of people trying to claim their bags from the Waukeen event at their chance of getting some spare rough AD, or the oh-so revered Golden Pantaloons. This even has brought the Mask's Roleplaying crowd to a crossroads on what to do, The Moonstone Mask being the exclusive single-instance zone for Roleplay in Neverwinter.
There was no need to put the Vendor for that event in the Mask. Not a single reason has been given to us either. I believe this was poor insight by Developers: Putting the Vendor for a major event in a single instanced zone that is the only one of it's kind, and usually serves one vital purpose - Roleplaying.
There are no other open-world zones like the Mask. The Mask is single instanced, meaning every time you walk in everyone will be in the same instance. All other zones have multiple instances running at a time - And this neuters natural/Tavern roleplay.
My questions is: Why aren't the other Taverns (i.e. Driftwood Tavern, Fallen Tower Tavern) also single instanced like the Moonstone Mask?
It would at least give roleplayers options on where to roleplay - Especially if Event Vendors keep getting place in the same location, and the ONLY location MADE for open, natural tavern Roleplaying.
2. Fashion Items
Why? Is my first question... Why are there not more fashion set options? Why would you design a 'Fey' suit of leaves, fair wings, and flower hats, when there are a lack of non-canon fashion sets? Is that some joke? Seriously, I'd like to know.
The issue with fashion set variety has been mumbled about since beta, and we've not seen many since beta. It's a issue that I've seen time and time again with people talking of the "Roleplay" support in Neverwinter. Is this topic dismissed for any particular reason? There is money to be made here, that is all I'm saying.
3. Instanced Zone
As was mentioned earlier - Instanced zones neuter Open world Roleplay. With a game like Neverwinter, where the instances are so embedded in the games over all design, I would say asking to change this is illogical and stupid of a person to do, or even mention.
However, I'd like to share possible ideas on how Open World Roleplay and instances can live in harmony:
- Designated Instances for Role Play.
- Converting ALL of the game's already in place Taverns to single instance locations.
- Assigning certain instances to be forcefully joined; An Option for roleplayers to use for Open World RP.
- Walk-in static foundries. (i.e. Guild Halls)
Just a few suggestions that a person like me with no technical game knowledge knows is even possible with the game's coding, or server setup.
4. Armor and Cosmetic Dyes
Another issue is armor designs - Specifically females. Is there any reason why a male is fully covered from head to toe, but females have gaping skin revealing holes and cleavage ports in their armor? With the lack of armor models to choose from in the first place, this doesn't make the problem of lacking variety easier to deal with for those who play female characters. I know this has been a thing (sexist meaning aside) done by game developers of MMO's for the longest time... But really?
And to top it all off, the lack of single color dyes is awful. No white, brown, or gray dyes? There is not much variety outside dye packs, and even then it is hard to make your character look like the "Unique Snowflake" everyone wants them to be.
Would it be to much to ask for some more variety in color for single color dye bottles?
Those are a few the 'Hot Topic' issues I'd come up in Neverwinter Roleplayer's dicussion on the Role Playing support of the game. Feel free to comment and leave suggestions for ideas on Role Play support down below.
--I will ask of you; Do keep your tone serious and thoughts on Topic. On topic discussion is healthy - Mindless slander is not.
++Edited/After-the-fact Suggestions and/or Topics:
- Simple Dice Rolls
- Allowing Players to Buy Direct Access to the Moonstone Mask's V.I.P. Section. (without buying a $200 founder pack)
** Please note I am not a perfect human being, nor do I claim to be. Typos, small grammatical errors, and my bias opinion are sought to be forgiven - As I would yours.
Thank you for your time,
Floingis
** Let me start off this thread by stating that; I am here to bring the issues of Role Play in Neverwinter, a little into the light. There have been many thread discussing this topic; however, this is one of the Neverwinter Role Playing Community's concerns and criticism of Neverwinter as a whole. Issues I've found are brought up frequently amongst the community - Me being a Roleplayer myself. **
I am not here to whine, cry, start a flame war, use jargon to make myself feel justified, denounce the game and my support, or threaten for change - These are my thoughts and opinions, hold none to your own if you so choose.
With that said, let's get started shall we?
1. The Moonstone Mask
Ah, the Moonstone Mask. Neverwinter's hot spot for adventurers to gather after a long day of doing adventuring things and mingle with one another. The music, the crowd, the open bar, the atmosphere; a jolly old place for characters to meet, and most of the time it is.
However, as of recent weeks it has been mostly packed with mobs of people trying to claim their bags from the Waukeen event at their chance of getting some spare rough AD, or the oh-so revered Golden Pantaloons. This even has brought the Mask's Roleplaying crowd to a crossroads on what to do, The Moonstone Mask being the exclusive single-instance zone for Roleplay in Neverwinter.
There was no need to put the Vendor for that event in the Mask. Not a single reason has been given to us either. I believe this was poor insight by Developers: Putting the Vendor for a major event in a single instanced zone that is the only one of it's kind, and usually serves one vital purpose - Roleplaying.
There are no other open-world zones like the Mask. The Mask is single instanced, meaning every time you walk in everyone will be in the same instance. All other zones have multiple instances running at a time - And this neuters natural/Tavern roleplay.
My questions is: Why aren't the other Taverns (i.e. Driftwood Tavern, Fallen Tower Tavern) also single instanced like the Moonstone Mask?
It would at least give roleplayers options on where to roleplay - Especially if Event Vendors keep getting place in the same location, and the ONLY location MADE for open, natural tavern Roleplaying.
2. Fashion Items
Why? Is my first question... Why are there not more fashion set options? Why would you design a 'Fey' suit of leaves, fair wings, and flower hats, when there are a lack of non-canon fashion sets? Is that some joke? Seriously, I'd like to know.
The issue with fashion set variety has been mumbled about since beta, and we've not seen many since beta. It's a issue that I've seen time and time again with people talking of the "Roleplay" support in Neverwinter. Is this topic dismissed for any particular reason? There is money to be made here, that is all I'm saying.
3. Instanced Zone
As was mentioned earlier - Instanced zones neuter Open world Roleplay. With a game like Neverwinter, where the instances are so embedded in the games over all design, I would say asking to change this is illogical and stupid of a person to do, or even mention.
However, I'd like to share possible ideas on how Open World Roleplay and instances can live in harmony:
- Designated Instances for Role Play.
- Converting ALL of the game's already in place Taverns to single instance locations.
- Assigning certain instances to be forcefully joined; An Option for roleplayers to use for Open World RP.
- Walk-in static foundries. (i.e. Guild Halls)
Just a few suggestions that a person like me with no technical game knowledge knows is even possible with the game's coding, or server setup.
4. Armor and Cosmetic Dyes
Another issue is armor designs - Specifically females. Is there any reason why a male is fully covered from head to toe, but females have gaping skin revealing holes and cleavage ports in their armor? With the lack of armor models to choose from in the first place, this doesn't make the problem of lacking variety easier to deal with for those who play female characters. I know this has been a thing (sexist meaning aside) done by game developers of MMO's for the longest time... But really?
And to top it all off, the lack of single color dyes is awful. No white, brown, or gray dyes? There is not much variety outside dye packs, and even then it is hard to make your character look like the "Unique Snowflake" everyone wants them to be.
Would it be to much to ask for some more variety in color for single color dye bottles?
Those are a few the 'Hot Topic' issues I'd come up in Neverwinter Roleplayer's dicussion on the Role Playing support of the game. Feel free to comment and leave suggestions for ideas on Role Play support down below.
--I will ask of you; Do keep your tone serious and thoughts on Topic. On topic discussion is healthy - Mindless slander is not.
++Edited/After-the-fact Suggestions and/or Topics:
- Simple Dice Rolls
- Allowing Players to Buy Direct Access to the Moonstone Mask's V.I.P. Section. (without buying a $200 founder pack)
** Please note I am not a perfect human being, nor do I claim to be. Typos, small grammatical errors, and my bias opinion are sought to be forgiven - As I would yours.
Thank you for your time,
Floingis
Post edited by floingis on
1
Comments
Having single instanced taverns can also help in forming groups for doing stuff ingame, as a sort of meeting place for adventurers. What taverns are usually known for in the first place.
The lack of armor variety been a personal pet peeve of mine for a while as it is. The lack of single color dyes is also atop the pile in that category.
Also be nice if there were was a way to specifically mark foundaries to have a hosted version to house more than 5 players. And a regular adventure version. think this will help a whole lot, since getting roleplay together as well.
Honestly, its discussed often, and I'd like to personal put in, that it feels that us roleplayers, who have been long time and one of the first investors in Neverwinter, are getting neglected for a long long time now. As it is right now, it feels frustrating to get a comfortable roleplaying feel together with others due to things stated.
Armor variety is also a pet peeve of mine. Do you know how many good armors there are that have a single shoulder pad/plate/thing on them? Quite a few. You'd have to transmute your item to something else to have a "full" look. The skirt/tabard/loincloth thing isn't for everyone either. I also hope that more fashions will be introduced in the future, with modest looks for females and masculine looks for males. It's not a HUGE priority, but something I'd like to see.
Ahh yes, dyes. Singular dyes would be nice. If there were singular dye color options (mostly gold, silver, and white - maybe some of the other colors from packs) it would be nice to see as well.
And special halls or foundries that can support more than five players specifically for the purpose of meetings or roleplaying would be nice to see. For instance, Haven's Point, a roleplaying guild, has a Foundry location. It's a town, but, since only 5 can go at a time, it usually gets RPed that people are meeting in the tavern, turning the Driftwood into the Haven's Point tavern.
While I don't necessarily think that roleplayers are being neglected exclusively, it's more than likely that since we are the minority, we're pretty much going to have to either come up with our own solutions (such as private RP zone channels) or, as some have already done, give up. I hardly RP as it is these days, sadly, and have heard a few people who joined NW looking for RP pretty much give up on it because they can't find anyone. If all Taverns have one instance, and numerous RPers hang out in said taverns, that would help. It would be a start. Admittedly, when I was new and looking for RP, I would've never, ever looked to the Moonstone Mask for it.
Still, I love and enjoy roleplaying, would do so much more in this game if many of the other taverns were open for roleplaying and not just the Moonstone Mask all the time.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
They could add a new small area. It could be a street in Neverwinter or a nearby keep and would contain more than just a tavern.
...Just a thought
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
"Blindness is a private matter between a person and the eyes they choose to use. For there are none so blind as those that do not listen dalharil"
Not a bad idea. A single instanced small-medium sized zone would be a good start too.
And as Mistysummer said.
The demographic of Rpers for this game is larger than it seems. Though way its set up now though its difficult to meet with other people. Dungeons and Dragon's is the first thing a person thinks of when it comes to roleplay after all. And having the feeling of neglect hurts the overall game and reputation of Dungeons and Dragon's as a whole when a game with the name dungeons and dragons, and based around the lore, hasnt done all that much to cater to that demographic.
Also as Abell39 said. Something between Peasant clothes and the fancy attire would be good. there doesnt seem to be any outfit attire that gives the impression of middle classman. Or working man attire. Such as the clothes the neverwinter commoners wear, and even the neverwinter noble's attire look less noble than any other attire thats not the peasant clothes.
You don't need special clothes, or special places, or special armours, or special anything else.
When I started up with role-playing the human imagination didn't need crutches to get around. I would hope that it is still up to the task even in this day and age.
That's easier said then done with some of the female clothes provided, this always comes to mind..
I agree with everything stated above, Roleplayers are a key part of this community and will most likely stay with the game longer than any other. As they are not just interested in pve/pvp content that can get old and overdone.
Concerning roleplay...I don't know. Basically, like Knightfalz said, the weight's not on the devs shoulders. If players want to roleplay, they just have to roleplay.
I mean, it's the same in all games, even on dedicated roleplay servers there isn't much roleplay going on during the actual game and I also don't know if there's the 'generic' role player. It's really hard to tailor a game towards 'our' needs since there's a large spectrum of what people expect of roleplay opportunities.
I'd love to see more custom gear options, but if it's just for the sake of (tavern) roleplay it should just work fine without.
As far as reavealing armor goes, I think this game's refreshingly...normal. You're always fully armored, no T&A if you don't want to, just throw a shirt and pants on, and you're good to go (think mages are an exception, but yeah...).
This is the problem. Yeah, I can gather up friends I already have and we can go RP wherever we feel like - and we do - but I wouldn't have even met these friends without a good, single-instance RP area - The Moonstone Mask. Which they are now ruining by putting event vendors into and lowering the instance population cap! Seriously.
Also, I have more than five friends - this means we can't party with everyone. And since I've picked up a couple more, I am frequently having to turn someone away because "Sorry, the RP foundry is full, and the Mask is full of OOC peole". This is not fair to people who use the Moonstone Mask. They NEED to stop putting vendors in there.
If your role-play ability is constrained by your character's attire, that is a personal problem that changes to the game can't fix.
What does a dice rolling mechanic have to do with role-play?
RP players, one of the types of players Cryptic obviously intends to attract, therefore deserve visual assets and QOL things for their preferred type of gameplay just as much as other types of players. (I say this as an RP-lite player.)
However, one has to take into consideration that RP players are always fairly low on the list of developer priorities. They're there, but they're not first served (unlike Achiever-type players, or PvP players).
So these QOL things for RP-ers will come in time, because they are part of the demographic Cryptic wants to attract; but as with most MMOs, RP-ers will just have to wait a big longer than everyone else, because there are proportionately less of them than other types of players.
Any place where anyone starts to role-play is suddenly a role-play venue. It is often the case that once someone starts to role-play in a populated area that other role-players join in, in sort of a 'build it and they will come' fashion.
People are making this more complicated than it has to be.
As far as placing vendors in the Mask, they don't NEED to stop doing anything. It is a common habit these days for people to assume that their wants result in a requirement for others to need to satisfy them. Your want, or mine, is not automatically the need of someone else to satisfy, save for very specific and rare circumstances that don't apply here.
It's not a stoic option. It's a taking charge of your own experience option, rather than depending on others to spoon feed it to you when it isn't required.
Role-players don't "deserve" anything. The age of entitlement really isn't about actual entitlement, but more so the pervasive unjustified belief of entitlement by a large number of individuals.
They may come in time, or may not. It certainly won't hurt for such things to be added, but due to them not being needed by role-players in any way to role-play I suspect they aren't high on the priority list.
You totally ignored the point of my post. One or two people start RPing in any random instance - because there are SO MANY random instances for any random area - there is almost no chance other RPers will be able to find them. There is a two-minute waiting period before you can change instances, and no RPer is going to look through all of the instances to look for the few other RPers who might be there. This means people pretty much have to gather people to RP with outside of an area first - meaning they need a single-instance area.
There is no 'if you build it, they will come'. People won't join in, because the chance of you actually running into another RPer while you're RPing by yourself is astronomically low. The only place where one could consistently go and find other RPers immediately, without being split across 8-15 instances, is the Moonstone Mask. Which they are ruining for roleplay by putting event vendors/NPCs inside of.
There is absolutely no reason why they need to be putting vendors for events inside of MM. They even put an NPC in the usual spot in Protector's Enclave, but didn't have it sell anything! It would not detract a single thing from the event. No one cared that the Waukeen event took place inside MM, it didn't add anything to it - it just made it more inconvenient for everyone. RPers and non-RPers. It's a teleporter and a map change away from the main city, with the mailbox and invocation point on opposite sides of the map transition.
Dungeons & Dragons/Forgotten Realms is a role playing game. Why are roleplayers, many, many of them being paid customers, being trampled over for no good reason?
And pants. Give me pants that arent gold. Leggins. With a hoodie. And evil looking robes.
Yes.
Thank you.
By god the mobile version of the forum sucks. Forgive me.
I didn't ignore the points of your post. I disagreed with the points of your post. There is a difference between the two. Ignoring the points of your post would be represented by me quoting your post and then making a totally unrelated response.
By the way, overly hyperbolic rhetoric such as 'role-players are being trampled over for no good reason' just weakens your argument, as overly hyperbolic rhetoric is difficult to take seriously.
Also, being a paying player in a f2p game does not make that person any more special than a non-paying player, as such would be counter to the spirit of a f2p offering. Due to this, mentioning that some role-playing players, such as myself, have paid into the game, doesn't add weight to your position.
If that were wholly relevant, there would be no point in roleplaying in a videogame at all, in preference to sitting round a table or doing it in text.
Some things are lost and some things are gained by roleplaying in a visual medium. If people are going to roleplay in a visual medium, then there have to be assets for it, otherwise what's the point?
It is wholly relevant. A visual crutch is only needed by those with inadequate imaginations or descriptive skills. Such visual enhancements would be nice, of course. However, they are not needed.
There is a difference between want and need.
However, since the issue under discussion is role-play in this game, your post in this thread is as irrelevant here as it was in the other.
Have you never role-played with a dice rolling system? I find that rather strange. Such as for SWTOR typing “Roll d20”, this enables people to carry out things from skill rolls to fighting in combat.
This whole RPers are getting the short shrift thing has come up multiple times before, with the same requests and complaints. I'm tired of it, find a game that will give you what you want.
Or we can see this thread turn up periodically from disappointed RPers.
As another said, it’s a visual game and people will react to what you are wearing. You are also wrong to think changes to the game could not alter this, all that needs to be done is have a wider range of casual clothing and armor for people to wear.
Playing a role has nothing to do with rolling a die.
I agree that it is a HUGE obstacle. I usually see groups of people roleplaying in the Moonstone and other zones, but most of these groups are formed by people that already know each other, or members of a single guild, etc. It is difficult to meet new roleplayers, because there no is longer a place where they all will gather to random RP.
The "old" players already have friends to roleplay with, but the new players, such as myself, are having difficulties to meet new characters and get themselves involved in interesting plots.
That is very sad
Perhaps you are better off trying to change the game you enjoy to better match what you are looking for, which is what this thread is about. That I may not agree that many of the things being requested are needed, the requests are related to the issue under discussion and many of them, despite being not needed, would be pleasant to have. What other D&D games provide is not what the thread is about.
A visual asset is not a "visual crutch" in a visual game, it is part of the game.
Nobody is denying that you can get on with roleplaying under most circumstances.
You don't even need a videogame to role-play. You don't even need to roleplay at all.
But this just happens to be a videogame. In which people roleplay.
So requests for more roleplaying assets in a videogame are perfectly on point - they are both a need and a want (from both players' and developers' perspectives).