Guess that's your first time meeting a dps GF or Knight's Challenge while debuffed?
Every class, even Cleric (at least pre-Feywild, no idea now), can do those crits and much higher, especially TRs and geared CW's when everything lines up perfectly.
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dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
edited October 2013
i do say that dmg for a tank class is just broken OP
i do say that dmg for a tank class is just broken OP
There's no "tank class" in this game and especially not in PvP. PvP specced DCs, GWFs and even some TRs can be far "tankier" than any PvP GF. The TRs and GWFs will still do amazing damage.
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
blergh. This is simply a failure to understand game mechanics.
A) You had NEGATIVE 15% damage reduction. EG: You were either naked and the GF had you marked and hit with bronzewood, or a wizard additionally debuffed you too. He used knights challenge, it doubles the damage you and he deal to each other. If a GF uses that on a strong rogue, he won't be crit for 15-20k, he will suffer 40-80k (depend on his DR).
C) Thats a melee attack with a lengthy cooldown. 100% dodgeable.
So if you were not a completely ungeared char, and had some decent DR - say 30% - which any class can get without sacrifcing any damage, and he didn't have you debuffed and challenged, that 17k hit would suddenly be 8.5k - 30% = 5950 damage. Given you can get over 30k hp on any class, its pretty low really.
Guardians damage is absolutely in no way overpowered.
Fighting a player that has you outclassed in every aspect of the game will make you feel that sure, but its not the class, its your failure to understand the mechancis.
I mean you could set up a scenario where a guardian could hit for over 100k with enough debuffs on a player. At the same time a rogue would deal over 300k.. Neither are overpowered, it's just this is a complex game with a lot of wayt to debuff.
Guardians damage is absolutely in no way overpowered.
...
I know your point is in relation to PvP, but in PvE I have consistently seen certain GF that are either first or second in overall damage -- above TR, GWF, and CW. I don't know exactly why this is but it is always when runs are add heavy (which I would have thought would favor the GWF and CW but instead it is the GF that wins out). I mention this as I am curious as to what spec yields this result.
I know your point is in relation to PvP, but in PvE I have consistently seen certain GF that are either first or second in overall damage -- above TR, GWF, and CW. I don't know exactly why this is but it is always when runs are add heavy (which I would have thought would favor the GWF and CW but instead it is the GF that wins out). I mention this as I am curious as to what spec yields this result.
Conqueror Crit GF spamming feated Cleave while under Villain's Menace (unlimited targets).
If a GF does not have to run around, they can do some pretty sick aoe once they get going. Particularly due to the (PvE) mechanic of generating threat and being hit generating a lot of AP for them, which enables them to spam more of their VM buff.
But at the end of the day, the synergy of multiple CWs (once geared) eventually races ahead of adding extra melee, plus they do not have to worry about grouping adds together for melee.
Conqueror Crit GF spamming feated Cleave while under Villain's Menace (unlimited targets).
If a GF does not have to run around, they can do some pretty sick aoe once they get going. Particularly due to the (PvE) mechanic of generating threat and being hit generating a lot of AP for them, which enables them to spam more of their VM buff.
But at the end of the day, the synergy of multiple CWs (once geared) eventually races ahead of adding extra melee, plus they do not have to worry about grouping adds together for melee.
GF don't generate Ap outside of using Skills/Blocking. Consuming damage(not guarding it), don't gain AP.
Yes, I agree. The combination of tanking features like Impossible to Catch with hard-hitting offensive ones like Lashing Blade is a bit much, especially along with the ability to escape quickly and go invisible as well.
The very first time i've ever played as a GF and used anvil of doom i was like, mmmmm this looks like as if some developer accidentially switched out anvil of doom with indomitable battle strike the same goes for knight's challenge and certain other skills. They are dps skills and just do not fit right, into the entire concept of THE tank class.
The very first time i've ever played as a GF and used anvil of doom i was like, mmmmm this looks like as if some developer accidentially switched out anvil of doom with indomitable battle strike the same goes for knight's challenge and certain other skills. They are dps skills and just do not fit right, into the entire concept of THE tank class.
GWF should have AoD + KC. not the GF.
Why have TR 1 cc-immunity at-will, 1 cc-/damage immunity encounter, 1 cc-/damage immunity daily as DDs?! Don't call the ranged attacks.
Why have a control class so hard damage skills? CW? Most skill have cc+good damage. Compare it with GWF, and you will find out GWF whine about that.
Why have TR 1 cc-immunity at-will, 1 cc-/damage immunity encounter, 1 cc-/damage immunity daily as DDs?! Don't call the ranged attacks.
Why have a control class so hard damage skills? CW? Most skill have cc+good damage. Compare it with GWF, and you will find out GWF whine about that.
Sorry, i cannot understand what you are trying to tell me.
I was thinking that us GF should have the GWF feat "steel defense". There's definitely some truth to your post. Knight's challenge let's us take 50% more dmg aswell, do not forget about that.
I do agree with the Anvil of doom/indomitable battle strike conspiracy theory.
It's a silly conspiracy theory. Almost everything about the GF is oriented around single target threat, except for VM Daily, one pitiful marking aoe and one 3-target knockdown. What is more threatening for a single target or more suited in lore for a Shield user than Knight's Challenge and Anvil of Doom?
Also, the excess synergy of having a class with the largest health pool that also when damaged enough, say under KC, gets even stronger both in attack and defense (due to Unstoppable), should be obvious as unbalanced.
Please don't drag down other classes in your wake just because GWF looks like it was designed by a schizophrenic!
It's not the word you don't understand. It's their sense. Failing intelligence isn't my fail. Easy words: Each class have skills/functions that don't be in their. I mention it in the post. Why a tank don't have that? Anvil only double its damage if the target is below 25%. Before that it has normal damage for a tank class. Second you misinterpret KC. It's in first place a DEBUFF of damage. That match the destination to avoid group damage. - 50% less damage to all other out the challenger knight. That it increase it over 100% of done damage is another thing. They can balance it out. But these both skills MATCH the intention of a tank. Nearly dead target kill and decrease group damaged from enemy.
Else you have to answer why TR need CC/damage immunity from ItC, Bloodpath and DF.
Most people don't enjoy this, and this is usually a gear/strategy/teamwork issue. If you're being consistently one-shotted, take hard look at your gear and build. If those are solid, think about your playstyle and whether or not you're playing as part of a team in PvP. If you're playing as five individuals instead of one team, expect to die frequently and easily.
Yeah, sucks when facing a CW, GF, GWF, or TR. DC's not so much. Or did you not realize that everyone except for DC's can spec to lock people down who don't use their active skills carefully?
Having a player hold a node against 2 or 3 other players, then come over to you and shut you down in 2 shots !
Permastealh TR's can hold a node against an entire team if they're not played well.
GF's, GWF's, and DC's can use their skills to make it very hard to kill them or boot them off the node - even against multiple players.
CW's can do this if played very well and facing people who aren't playing well together, they're just a bit squishier.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Most people don't enjoy this, and this is usually a gear/strategy/teamwork issue. If you're being consistently one-shotted, take hard look at your gear and build. If those are solid, think about your playstyle and whether or not you're playing as part of a team in PvP. If you're playing as five individuals instead of one team, expect to die frequently and easily.
Yeah, sucks when facing a CW, GF, GWF, or TR. DC's not so much. Or did you not realize that everyone except for DC's can spec to lock people down who don't use their active skills carefully?
Permastealh TR's can hold a node against an entire team if they're not played well.
GF's, GWF's, and DC's can use their skills to make it very hard to kill them or boot them off the node - even against multiple players.
CW's can do this if played very well and facing people who aren't playing well together, they're just a bit squishier.
No it's nothing like that, GF is the one class you can't do anything about as prone is broken, cc breakers don't work against it.
If they fixed it so when prone you can still use cc breakers/immunities then it would stop the stupid perma KB and death.
No it's nothing like that, GF is the one class you can't do anything about as prone is broken, cc breakers don't work against it.
If they fixed it so when prone you can still use cc breakers/immunities then it would stop the stupid perma KB and death.
Every class has at least one prone and all prones are just CC. If you have CC Immunity, you cannot be CC'd (excluding bugs). Not all immunites are CC Immunities, e.g. Soulforged is only Damage Immunity.
If you know otherwise, please tell us what these "cc breakers/immunities" that do not work against prone are...
No it's nothing like that, GF is the one class you can't do anything about as prone is broken, cc breakers don't work against it.
If they fixed it so when prone you can still use cc breakers/immunities then it would stop the stupid perma KB and death.
Nope, it is exactly like that. GF's can't prone you if you use a movement skill such as dodge, teleport, or slide. Can't take you down in Unstoppable or Impossible to Catch. Can't break out of a CW's force choke, etc. Every class has strengths and weaknesses.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Nope, it is exactly like that. GF's can't prone you if you use a movement skill such as dodge, teleport, or slide. Can't take you down in Unstoppable or Impossible to Catch. Can't break out of a CW's force choke, etc. Every class has strengths and weaknesses.
Incorrect.
Tr's ITC breaks out of CW's joke unstoppable does the same.
Prone you can't do anything, which is fine when it happens once, but chain prone from a gf is total bs.
If gf's couldn't do that then people wouldmt have an issue, and it' no diff to a TR 1 shotting any class, they nerfed the damage so now it's only the weakest of geared with those who are very well geared that can manage it.
Gf's can chain prone people's until dead regardless of the persons gear you are doing it to.
Sorry, but it needs to be fixed, you all QQed about gwf unstoppable, it was fixed, you QQ'ed about TR's, they were nerfed.
It's time the gf was fixed because of how op that is.
Soon as its fixed so one person can't chain prone someone you watch how many no longer play the FOTM.
Tr's ITC breaks out of CW's joke unstoppable does the same.
Prone you can't do anything, which is fine when it happens once, but chain prone from a gf is total bs.
If gf's couldn't do that then people wouldmt have an issue, and it' no diff to a TR 1 shotting any class, they nerfed the damage so now it's only the weakest of geared with those who are very well geared that can manage it.
Gf's can chain prone people's until dead regardless of the persons gear you are doing it to.
Sorry, but it needs to be fixed, you all QQed about gwf unstoppable, it was fixed, you QQ'ed about TR's, they were nerfed.
It's time the gf was fixed because of how op that is.
Soon as its fixed so one person can't chain prone someone you watch how many no longer play the FOTM.
So CWs Froze chain is better? And show me the GF that chain kill a person. If you get a LB of 20k+, how many classes survive this? And i mention this with over 55% DR without debuffs! And it's a huge difference if you get oneshooted or a chaintrain. The chaintrain fail more and more now in PvP and second your teammates can help you to avoid this, but by oneshoots? I see so many CW killed by 2 invisible TRs and sometimes by one. Noone had could help them. But GF are every time visible. Second you have enough skills to avoid CC itself. Maybe you only Q.Q about the Con-Tree? I myself are not able to kill any enemy with 3 chains as protector.
It's good to see people coming out to defend the chain prone of a GF, it's just like the rally of GWF's and even TR's before they were nerfed /cough fixed.
Don't worry, it will get fixed.
Don't compare chain proning someone like any other cc, as it isn't. Every other form of cc can be broken out of, or can only happen once in the case of knockdown/prone abilities if its performed by one person, EXCEPT GF's who can string it together so the person on the receiving end can't do anything.
barq3t
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 165 Bounty Hunter
Comments
Seems about right.
The Seeker - 60 DC (11.5k GS)
Faithless - 60 CW (10k GS)
Every class, even Cleric (at least pre-Feywild, no idea now), can do those crits and much higher, especially TRs and geared CW's when everything lines up perfectly.
There's no "tank class" in this game and especially not in PvP. PvP specced DCs, GWFs and even some TRs can be far "tankier" than any PvP GF. The TRs and GWFs will still do amazing damage.
A) You had NEGATIVE 15% damage reduction. EG: You were either naked and the GF had you marked and hit with bronzewood, or a wizard additionally debuffed you too.
C) Thats a melee attack with a lengthy cooldown. 100% dodgeable.
So if you were not a completely ungeared char, and had some decent DR - say 30% - which any class can get without sacrifcing any damage, and he didn't have you debuffed and challenged, that 17k hit would suddenly be 8.5k - 30% = 5950 damage. Given you can get over 30k hp on any class, its pretty low really.
Guardians damage is absolutely in no way overpowered.
Fighting a player that has you outclassed in every aspect of the game will make you feel that sure, but its not the class, its your failure to understand the mechancis.
I mean you could set up a scenario where a guardian could hit for over 100k with enough debuffs on a player. At the same time a rogue would deal over 300k.. Neither are overpowered, it's just this is a complex game with a lot of wayt to debuff.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
15-20k big whup.
I know your point is in relation to PvP, but in PvE I have consistently seen certain GF that are either first or second in overall damage -- above TR, GWF, and CW. I don't know exactly why this is but it is always when runs are add heavy (which I would have thought would favor the GWF and CW but instead it is the GF that wins out). I mention this as I am curious as to what spec yields this result.
Conqueror Crit GF spamming feated Cleave while under Villain's Menace (unlimited targets).
If a GF does not have to run around, they can do some pretty sick aoe once they get going. Particularly due to the (PvE) mechanic of generating threat and being hit generating a lot of AP for them, which enables them to spam more of their VM buff.
But at the end of the day, the synergy of multiple CWs (once geared) eventually races ahead of adding extra melee, plus they do not have to worry about grouping adds together for melee.
GF don't generate Ap outside of using Skills/Blocking. Consuming damage(not guarding it), don't gain AP.
wrong, tactician feat final rank
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Guardian_Fighter#Tactician_Feats
I was simplifying it for non-GFs. I meant from temporarily guarding (in any spec) and other specs also gain AP from feats.
That's the only case. But Prot and Con tree don't. And he wrote about Con.
@fondlez. You have to be precise, because else error and misunderstanding occur.
One class may have to debuff you several times, buff itself with several buffs, than have to aim carefully at close range to do that damage.
Another class may just aim at target, cast a spell, and do the same damage.
But don't worry, I am sure some people here will just tell you to "learn to play".
LOL. Best comment yet.
GWF should have AoD + KC. not the GF.
Why have TR 1 cc-immunity at-will, 1 cc-/damage immunity encounter, 1 cc-/damage immunity daily as DDs?! Don't call the ranged attacks.
Why have a control class so hard damage skills? CW? Most skill have cc+good damage. Compare it with GWF, and you will find out GWF whine about that.
Sorry, i cannot understand what you are trying to tell me.
translate.google.com
It's a silly conspiracy theory. Almost everything about the GF is oriented around single target threat, except for VM Daily, one pitiful marking aoe and one 3-target knockdown. What is more threatening for a single target or more suited in lore for a Shield user than Knight's Challenge and Anvil of Doom?
Also, the excess synergy of having a class with the largest health pool that also when damaged enough, say under KC, gets even stronger both in attack and defense (due to Unstoppable), should be obvious as unbalanced.
Please don't drag down other classes in your wake just because GWF looks like it was designed by a schizophrenic!
Tired of being 1-2 shotted in pvp and so am I !
Being locked down and can't even respond !
Having a player hold a node against 2 or 3 other players, then come over to you and shut you down in 2 shots !
Enuff Said !
Foundry Search: Wanted: Hero Lil Chubs
*I agree, there should be diminishing returns on prones/cc skills.
First use: 100% effect,
second usage: 50%
third usage: 25%
fourth usage: 0%
then reset back to 100%, so on.
*Who does that!? Tenebrous users! And those are getting nerfed a bit, already. :rolleyes:
It's not the word you don't understand. It's their sense. Failing intelligence isn't my fail. Easy words: Each class have skills/functions that don't be in their. I mention it in the post. Why a tank don't have that? Anvil only double its damage if the target is below 25%. Before that it has normal damage for a tank class. Second you misinterpret KC. It's in first place a DEBUFF of damage. That match the destination to avoid group damage. - 50% less damage to all other out the challenger knight. That it increase it over 100% of done damage is another thing. They can balance it out. But these both skills MATCH the intention of a tank. Nearly dead target kill and decrease group damaged from enemy.
Else you have to answer why TR need CC/damage immunity from ItC, Bloodpath and DF.
Most people don't enjoy this, and this is usually a gear/strategy/teamwork issue. If you're being consistently one-shotted, take hard look at your gear and build. If those are solid, think about your playstyle and whether or not you're playing as part of a team in PvP. If you're playing as five individuals instead of one team, expect to die frequently and easily.
Yeah, sucks when facing a CW, GF, GWF, or TR. DC's not so much. Or did you not realize that everyone except for DC's can spec to lock people down who don't use their active skills carefully?
Permastealh TR's can hold a node against an entire team if they're not played well.
GF's, GWF's, and DC's can use their skills to make it very hard to kill them or boot them off the node - even against multiple players.
CW's can do this if played very well and facing people who aren't playing well together, they're just a bit squishier.
No it's nothing like that, GF is the one class you can't do anything about as prone is broken, cc breakers don't work against it.
If they fixed it so when prone you can still use cc breakers/immunities then it would stop the stupid perma KB and death.
Every class has at least one prone and all prones are just CC. If you have CC Immunity, you cannot be CC'd (excluding bugs). Not all immunites are CC Immunities, e.g. Soulforged is only Damage Immunity.
If you know otherwise, please tell us what these "cc breakers/immunities" that do not work against prone are...
Nope, it is exactly like that. GF's can't prone you if you use a movement skill such as dodge, teleport, or slide. Can't take you down in Unstoppable or Impossible to Catch. Can't break out of a CW's force choke, etc. Every class has strengths and weaknesses.
Incorrect.
Tr's ITC breaks out of CW's joke unstoppable does the same.
Prone you can't do anything, which is fine when it happens once, but chain prone from a gf is total bs.
If gf's couldn't do that then people wouldmt have an issue, and it' no diff to a TR 1 shotting any class, they nerfed the damage so now it's only the weakest of geared with those who are very well geared that can manage it.
Gf's can chain prone people's until dead regardless of the persons gear you are doing it to.
Sorry, but it needs to be fixed, you all QQed about gwf unstoppable, it was fixed, you QQ'ed about TR's, they were nerfed.
It's time the gf was fixed because of how op that is.
Soon as its fixed so one person can't chain prone someone you watch how many no longer play the FOTM.
So CWs Froze chain is better? And show me the GF that chain kill a person. If you get a LB of 20k+, how many classes survive this? And i mention this with over 55% DR without debuffs! And it's a huge difference if you get oneshooted or a chaintrain. The chaintrain fail more and more now in PvP and second your teammates can help you to avoid this, but by oneshoots? I see so many CW killed by 2 invisible TRs and sometimes by one. Noone had could help them. But GF are every time visible. Second you have enough skills to avoid CC itself. Maybe you only Q.Q about the Con-Tree? I myself are not able to kill any enemy with 3 chains as protector.
Don't worry, it will get fixed.
Don't compare chain proning someone like any other cc, as it isn't. Every other form of cc can be broken out of, or can only happen once in the case of knockdown/prone abilities if its performed by one person, EXCEPT GF's who can string it together so the person on the receiving end can't do anything.