gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Using transmutation as an AD sink is not necessary. The game already has a massively effective AD sink. That sink is the zen market itself. The beauty of the zen market is that, coupled with the zen/AD exchange not only does it soak up excess player wealth, it generates revenue for the company.
Unfortunately, the NWO zen market has been badly mismanaged. Apart from some very nice mounts and followers, many of which are generally popular and sell pretty well, and the ever present (and regulation risky) lockbox keys, we are forced to look at what must constantly be put on sale just to make it move. Costumes, single color dyes, player storage, health and revive devices are just ridiculously expensive.
How many players do you know who use health stones? Seen many bright green wedding gowns out there lately?
And who is A)DUMB B)RICH C)LAZY or D)ALL OF THE ABOVE enough to buy enhancements from the so called 'Wonderous' Bazaar? The only thing 'wonderous' about it is that no one has laughed that snake oil peddling 'courtesan' out of the game. (A couple of my female toons would be more than happy to murder her provided they got to keep her outfit.)
The last thing we need is another BROKEN AD sink. If they would fix the ones they already have to work as effectively as they do in other Cryptic/PWE titles, and give up trying to force crippling TM charges on us, they might find themselves in the much more pleasant (and ever player popular) position of needing to find ways to INCREASE player income, rather than trying to strangle it.
Tansmutation at ~5OK is cheap enough already. There should be working previews for gear in general so that one will know how an object will look when equipped before purchase.
Past looks don't make sense when you have a transmutation system. When an item is transmuted, it is actually changed. As such it has no past looks, it only has the current look.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Using transmutation as an AD sink is not necessary. The game already has a massively effective AD sink. That sink is the zen market itself. The beauty of the zen market is that, coupled with the zen/AD exchange not only does it soak up excess player wealth, it generates revenue for the company.
An AD/Gold Sink removes currency from the game.
The Zen Exchange is not an AD Sink.
The Zen Exchange is just that, an exchange between players (not the company) which allows players to trade AD for Zen or vice versa.
What this means is that when you sell AD it doesn't go poof. It simply goes to another player who plans to use it for their own AD Sinks or purposes.
I don't thinkit should be free, but as Zebular posted, if it was paid with gold/silver/copper, then that would be better than AD.
If the process for tranmutation would be changed, then I wouldnt mind paying some AD for it, but not have it as nearly as expensive as it is now.
Have a base and each accessory would cost additional AD. The base armors would stay class specific, so no CWs with robes looking like GWF armor and so forth. Here's what I would like to see it changed, those of you who played neverwinter nights would get the idea.
Lets use Armor item for this example. To start out with Have different catagories such as
Slot Type > Cost = 0 AD
Head
Armor
Arms
Main Hand
Off-handFfeet
Neck
Waist
We choose Armor Slot Type which would bring us to another tree to make a selcetion. This would take us to the Rank of Armor we want as our to use as our base (our canvas) .
Slot Type > Armor >
CommonCost = 1,000 AD UncommonCost = 2,000 AD RareCost = 3,000 AD EpicCost = 4,000 AD
Then next tree of choices would be which Armor Base in the ranking catagory to choose from as our base to build/ad accessories to.
Slot Type> Armor > Uncommon >
None Cost = 0 AD
uncommon armor base design 1 Cost = 1,000 AD
uncommon armor base design 2 Cost = 1,000 AD
uncommon armor base design 3 Cost = 1,000 AD
uncommon armor base design 4 Cost = 1,000 AD
etc..
Now we would have the choice which part of the armor to choose that we want to add an accessory.
Right Shoulder
Left Shoulder
Right Chest
Left Chest
Waist
Right Thigh
Left Thigh
Slot Type> Armor > Uncommon > uncommon armor base design 1 > Right Shoulder
None Cost = 0
Selection 1 Cost = 1,000 AD
Selection 2 Cost = 1,000 AD
Selection 3 Cost = 1,000 AD
Selection 4 Cost = 1,000 AD
etc...
Go back to previous menu and choose next part of the armor to accessorize.
once all modifictions on the armor, are completed to our liking, view the total, have the option to accept or not and/or pay for it.
Now some may think that this method is way to inexpensive versus the 50k - 60k (or whatever the cost is now to trasmute). If you figure how many times a player may want to change their armor, maybe they have another look they want to try out. People don't transmute their items because either they like the item as it is, or in most cases it's too expensive.
This can benefit:
RPRs
Fashionable People
Guilds looking for Cohesion (same/similar armors to wear)
Players who want a more "Unique" look (not a cookie cutter look)
and those who just can't setle on one design and just like to change their looks whenever they want.
I would think this would prove to be a more of a AD sink in terms of the sheer volume of people who are now able to modifiy/transmute their armors than the way it is now. Also having the ability to keep modifying the armor that was modified would be allowed (it's an AD sink why wouldnt it be?)
Now I don't know if this is something that can be implemented, but looking at the armors, the accessories "hover" over the amor, and not actually touching it. So i would think it would be possible. Then again I don't know much about scripting, coding or whatever it is you call it so I honestly haven't a clue if at all possible.
Well it's wishful thinking. Sorry for the long post.
There is no such thing as Pleather Armor.
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ulkaurMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
I would like them to institute a similar concept to Star Trek Online. It gives a much more dynamic structure than what is available now. You could add a right-click option on the item to "add design to wardrobe" and charge the fee (hopefully affordable). The option could then be chosen at any time from a wardrobe screen for free. I don't buy a shirt and then pay the designer $1 everytime I wear it after that. Why would I do it in a game?
I hate how this game keeps trying to "$10" and "$20" you when you want something. We are paying more to upgrade pets and mounts than if we just bought them outright. We are expected to just accept these fees as a price for playing a free-to-play game.
As long as this mindset is there, I intend to skirt the pay option every chance I get.
Oh, and the wardrobe option will only make more sense considering all of the CTA and other events they plan to do in the future. The number of options are only going to grow.
0
gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
An AD/Gold Sink removes currency from the game.
The Zen Exchange is not an AD Sink.
The Zen Exchange is just that, an exchange between players (not the company) which allows players to trade AD for Zen or vice versa.
What this means is that when you sell AD it doesn't go poof. It simply goes to another player who plans to use it for their own AD Sinks or purposes.
True enough I see your point there.
But the problem is still the same. Unless players use these sinks, they will not work. Take the Bazaar, for example. The AH undercuts its price on most of what it sells. See? Do you buy her enhancements? More pets and mounts are available for zen than for ADs. To make it effective, you must either lower its price, or allow AD inflation to catch up with it, which it will as such things as leadership and Rhix rewards pump AD into the economy. You can't have it both ways
Another idea is to let players sell AD back to the game for gold, but not the reverse. The only problem with that is there is no real use for large amounts of player gold in game. Maybe if we could by ALL crafting supplies at the professions vendor or something it might help. Any way its just an idea from the top of my head
But the problem is still the same. Unless players use these sinks, they will not work. Take the Bazaar, for example. The AH undercuts its price on most of what it sells. See? Do you buy her enhancements? More pets and mounts are available for zen than for ADs. To make it effective, you must either lower its price, or allow AD inflation to catch up with it, which it will as such things as leadership and Rhix rewards pump AD into the economy.
This is something I actually agree with. Most items they have in the game that are bought with a preset AD cost way to expensive imo. Stuff you mentioned like the enhancements, but also the bigger AD sinks like mount training.
I've said repeatedly (in other threads) that it makes no sense for it to cost more to upgrade a single mount, than it does to buy several rank 3 mounts for every character on an account. This applies to pets as well. And other stuff like the feat only respec (though that is a little better, since they lowered its cost).
As far as the gems and runes she sells. I don't even understand why they are there. Its to easy to pick rank 4s up off the ground in a foundry rather than buy them. And as you said, the price is to high anyway.
The only thing I can really think of is that they are worried about the set prices controlling the AD/Zen market. That is if the predetermined prices were set to low they might affect the exchange. So they made them so high, they'd be ignored. Again, that's just my guess at why things are priced to silly.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Every chance they get they take they absolute highest road possible for all pricing, zen market or ADs. In CO I can STILL spend $5 for a costume package that often provides several costumes for EVERY character on my account. And here they are still asking $20 for the wedding attire for ONE toon. No wonder almost nobody buys it.
With cumulative costs for dyes, transmutes, and the items to make them with for all your gear on one toon could run any where from $20 to $60. With that kind of money you could upgrade to T2 wtih lvl 8 and 9 enhancements. for at least one toon maybe a second if you are sharp.
Tie this with pet and mount upgrades running up to 750k AD and its looking like a $100 toon is just about the only answer to getting REALLY customized. I shudder to think of the GRIND it would take to get this the hard way.
Lol and I've got 7 lvl 60 characters. Guess I'll have to get a part time job. Better yet I'll just DO WITHOUT.
So come on boys, pull out those visa cards, who's buying?
Yea, specially for someone who is NOT lvl 60 yet, dont have 5 other alts, and have to do 1 dungeon, 3 skirmishes and 3 foundries to get 10.000 per a day. For such person removing single enchant does need 2-3 days of playing, transmutation of single object 3-4 days, indeed.. thats really cheap...
Yea, specially for someone who is NOT lvl 60 yet, dont have 5 other alts, and have to do 1 dungeon, 3 skirmishes and 3 foundries to get 10.000 per a day. For such person removing single enchant does need 2-3 days of playing, transmutation of single object 3-4 days, indeed.. thats really cheap...
People who aren't level 60 yet shouldn't be transmuting anyway. Gear changes are way too frequent before level 60. Further, one shouldn't put high level enchants into equipment until they have gear that will last a good deal of time, once again at level 60. So, yes, when a person should be doing these things... when it makes sense to do these things... the cost of transmutation is pretty cheap.
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gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
People who aren't level 60 yet shouldn't be transmuting anyway. Gear changes are way too frequent before level 60. Further, one shouldn't put high level enchants into equipment until they have gear that will last a good deal of time, once again at level 60. So, yes, when a person should be doing these things... when it makes sense to do these things... the cost of transmutation is pretty cheap.
One of the points of this thread is to enable more CASUAL use of TM. Let's say a player just really liked the orc club from the cloak tower and wanted to change whatever weapon he had ATM to look like it as he leveled. At 50k six weapon changes later he's out 300k ADs which he's gonna have to get from a mature alt presuming he has any.
Exorbitant prices can really cramp some players styles, and I don't think that's a good thing.
Tie this with pet and mount upgrades running up to 750k AD and its looking like a $100 toon is just about the only answer to getting REALLY customized. I shudder to think of the GRIND it would take to get this the hard way.
Man I really *WISH* mount upgrades only went "up to 750k" like the pet upgrades. I would have upgraded several already. It currently costs 2,064,000 AD to upgrade a mount from rank 2 to 3. I bought the medium wolf from the Zen shop with the intent to upgrade it before I realized how much the upgrade costs. And that upgrade cost is the only thing keeping me from buying the orange tiger (Zen Shop) and the gilded spider (AD Shop).
Back to transmuting. I still say 50K is an ok price for transmuting at 60. In my opinion the issue isn't with the price, but the awkwardness of the system. Its to easy to mess it up and to annoying to store stuff you may want to transmute. That said, if they wanted to really open up transmuting to players below 60... Then yes, it'd need a price adjustment.
. . . . . I feel customization should be free or cost Gold/Silver/Copper instead. Or better yet, be a wardrobe system like LotRO's. I don't like it costing AD at all. There's enough AD sinks elsewhere, especially with how expensive upgrading pets and mounts are.
Agreed. Couldn't have put it much better myself.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
I completely agree with you actually. 50k AD at lvl 60 is nothing. But then again, for some people it may be alot and especially since they don't have a "dressing room" or "preview room" to see what the gear looks like before they buy it. So if they make a mistake then its suddenly 100k AD. and 2 mistakes are 150k AD. etc etc. So, unless you are searching on google for "super cool neverwinter gear" and know exactly what to buy, it can cost up to a fortune.
Bump this thought, need dressing room Badly! How can we expect ppl who've never seen a transmute item to buy it when they may have absolutely no idea what it even looks like. It's purely for appearance so you'd think being able to see it would be pretty important.
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Comments
Unfortunately, the NWO zen market has been badly mismanaged. Apart from some very nice mounts and followers, many of which are generally popular and sell pretty well, and the ever present (and regulation risky) lockbox keys, we are forced to look at what must constantly be put on sale just to make it move. Costumes, single color dyes, player storage, health and revive devices are just ridiculously expensive.
How many players do you know who use health stones? Seen many bright green wedding gowns out there lately?
And who is A)DUMB B)RICH C)LAZY or D)ALL OF THE ABOVE enough to buy enhancements from the so called 'Wonderous' Bazaar? The only thing 'wonderous' about it is that no one has laughed that snake oil peddling 'courtesan'
The last thing we need is another BROKEN AD sink. If they would fix the ones they already have to work as effectively as they do in other Cryptic/PWE titles, and give up trying to force crippling TM charges on us, they might find themselves in the much more pleasant (and ever player popular) position of needing to find ways to INCREASE player income, rather than trying to strangle it.
Past looks don't make sense when you have a transmutation system. When an item is transmuted, it is actually changed. As such it has no past looks, it only has the current look.
An AD/Gold Sink removes currency from the game.
The Zen Exchange is not an AD Sink.
The Zen Exchange is just that, an exchange between players (not the company) which allows players to trade AD for Zen or vice versa.
What this means is that when you sell AD it doesn't go poof. It simply goes to another player who plans to use it for their own AD Sinks or purposes.
If the process for tranmutation would be changed, then I wouldnt mind paying some AD for it, but not have it as nearly as expensive as it is now.
Have a base and each accessory would cost additional AD. The base armors would stay class specific, so no CWs with robes looking like GWF armor and so forth. Here's what I would like to see it changed, those of you who played neverwinter nights would get the idea.
Lets use Armor item for this example. To start out with Have different catagories such as
Slot Type > Cost = 0 AD
Head
Armor
Arms
Main Hand
Off-handFfeet
Neck
Waist
We choose Armor Slot Type which would bring us to another tree to make a selcetion. This would take us to the Rank of Armor we want as our to use as our base (our canvas) .
Slot Type > Armor >
Common Cost = 1,000 AD
Uncommon Cost = 2,000 AD
Rare Cost = 3,000 AD
Epic Cost = 4,000 AD
Then next tree of choices would be which Armor Base in the ranking catagory to choose from as our base to build/ad accessories to.
Slot Type> Armor > Uncommon >
None Cost = 0 AD
uncommon armor base design 1 Cost = 1,000 AD
uncommon armor base design 2 Cost = 1,000 AD
uncommon armor base design 3 Cost = 1,000 AD
uncommon armor base design 4 Cost = 1,000 AD
etc..
Now we would have the choice which part of the armor to choose that we want to add an accessory.
Slot Type> Armor > Uncommon > uncommon armor base design 1 Cost = 0
Right Shoulder
Left Shoulder
Right Chest
Left Chest
Waist
Right Thigh
Left Thigh
Slot Type> Armor > Uncommon > uncommon armor base design 1 > Right Shoulder
None Cost = 0
Selection 1 Cost = 1,000 AD
Selection 2 Cost = 1,000 AD
Selection 3 Cost = 1,000 AD
Selection 4 Cost = 1,000 AD
etc...
Go back to previous menu and choose next part of the armor to accessorize.
once all modifictions on the armor, are completed to our liking, view the total, have the option to accept or not and/or pay for it.
Now some may think that this method is way to inexpensive versus the 50k - 60k (or whatever the cost is now to trasmute). If you figure how many times a player may want to change their armor, maybe they have another look they want to try out. People don't transmute their items because either they like the item as it is, or in most cases it's too expensive.
This can benefit:
RPRs
Fashionable People
Guilds looking for Cohesion (same/similar armors to wear)
Players who want a more "Unique" look (not a cookie cutter look)
and those who just can't setle on one design and just like to change their looks whenever they want.
I would think this would prove to be a more of a AD sink in terms of the sheer volume of people who are now able to modifiy/transmute their armors than the way it is now. Also having the ability to keep modifying the armor that was modified would be allowed (it's an AD sink why wouldnt it be?)
Now I don't know if this is something that can be implemented, but looking at the armors, the accessories "hover" over the amor, and not actually touching it. So i would think it would be possible. Then again I don't know much about scripting, coding or whatever it is you call it so I honestly haven't a clue if at all possible.
Well it's wishful thinking. Sorry for the long post.
I hate how this game keeps trying to "$10" and "$20" you when you want something. We are paying more to upgrade pets and mounts than if we just bought them outright. We are expected to just accept these fees as a price for playing a free-to-play game.
As long as this mindset is there, I intend to skirt the pay option every chance I get.
Oh, and the wardrobe option will only make more sense considering all of the CTA and other events they plan to do in the future. The number of options are only going to grow.
True enough I see your point there.
But the problem is still the same. Unless players use these sinks, they will not work. Take the Bazaar, for example. The AH undercuts its price on most of what it sells. See? Do you buy her enhancements? More pets and mounts are available for zen than for ADs. To make it effective, you must either lower its price, or allow AD inflation to catch up with it, which it will as such things as leadership and Rhix rewards pump AD into the economy. You can't have it both ways
Another idea is to let players sell AD back to the game for gold, but not the reverse. The only problem with that is there is no real use for large amounts of player gold in game. Maybe if we could by ALL crafting supplies at the professions vendor or something it might help. Any way its just an idea from the top of my head
This is something I actually agree with. Most items they have in the game that are bought with a preset AD cost way to expensive imo. Stuff you mentioned like the enhancements, but also the bigger AD sinks like mount training.
I've said repeatedly (in other threads) that it makes no sense for it to cost more to upgrade a single mount, than it does to buy several rank 3 mounts for every character on an account. This applies to pets as well. And other stuff like the feat only respec (though that is a little better, since they lowered its cost).
As far as the gems and runes she sells. I don't even understand why they are there. Its to easy to pick rank 4s up off the ground in a foundry rather than buy them. And as you said, the price is to high anyway.
The only thing I can really think of is that they are worried about the set prices controlling the AD/Zen market. That is if the predetermined prices were set to low they might affect the exchange. So they made them so high, they'd be ignored. Again, that's just my guess at why things are priced to silly.
With cumulative costs for dyes, transmutes, and the items to make them with for all your gear on one toon could run any where from $20 to $60. With that kind of money you could upgrade to T2 wtih lvl 8 and 9 enhancements. for at least one toon maybe a second if you are sharp.
Tie this with pet and mount upgrades running up to 750k AD and its looking like a $100 toon is just about the only answer to getting REALLY customized. I shudder to think of the GRIND it would take to get this the hard way.
Lol and I've got 7 lvl 60 characters. Guess I'll have to get a part time job. Better yet I'll just DO WITHOUT.
So come on boys, pull out those visa cards, who's buying?
People who aren't level 60 yet shouldn't be transmuting anyway. Gear changes are way too frequent before level 60. Further, one shouldn't put high level enchants into equipment until they have gear that will last a good deal of time, once again at level 60. So, yes, when a person should be doing these things... when it makes sense to do these things... the cost of transmutation is pretty cheap.
One of the points of this thread is to enable more CASUAL use of TM. Let's say a player just really liked the orc club from the cloak tower and wanted to change whatever weapon he had ATM to look like it as he leveled. At 50k six weapon changes later he's out 300k ADs which he's gonna have to get from a mature alt presuming he has any.
Exorbitant prices can really cramp some players styles, and I don't think that's a good thing.
Man I really *WISH* mount upgrades only went "up to 750k" like the pet upgrades. I would have upgraded several already. It currently costs 2,064,000 AD to upgrade a mount from rank 2 to 3. I bought the medium wolf from the Zen shop with the intent to upgrade it before I realized how much the upgrade costs. And that upgrade cost is the only thing keeping me from buying the orange tiger (Zen Shop) and the gilded spider (AD Shop).
Back to transmuting. I still say 50K is an ok price for transmuting at 60. In my opinion the issue isn't with the price, but the awkwardness of the system. Its to easy to mess it up and to annoying to store stuff you may want to transmute. That said, if they wanted to really open up transmuting to players below 60... Then yes, it'd need a price adjustment.
Agreed. Couldn't have put it much better myself.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
Bump this thought, need dressing room Badly! How can we expect ppl who've never seen a transmute item to buy it when they may have absolutely no idea what it even looks like. It's purely for appearance so you'd think being able to see it would be pretty important.
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.