It all starts when someone states diffrent opinion than others and he becomes public enemy no. 1 and everyone start to look at you as worst of the worst, just because you have diffrent opinion on presented situation (often taking that opinion out of context).
People keep forgetting that coin has 2 sides.
It does indeed...well said, Sessler was talking about this very thing a few weeks back, that atavistic need to be 'Right" or "Vindicated" to the point of hurling insults to communicating death threats to developers, but you also need to look at the context, there are certain people here who are portraying themselves as something they aren't and they spend twelve to sixteen hours a day on the forums constantly bashing or putting down positive threads.
That screams agenda to me, it would be different if it was a honest attempt to help make the game better by providing criticism and suggestions to improve, but all we're getting here is "Fix this!!" and "Cryptic SuxX0Rz!" :rolleyes: It's one of the reasons the forums just can't be taken seriously.
Just run Karru, nothing special, tactics change even for me who did not play Karru for awhile.... run with the mobs while teamates burn the boss, of course after killing the boss we "tried" to kill the adds but failed cause of prone. LOLOLOLOL.
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sorry to hear that in your world of Elite Players, you are unable to measure correctly the dps of a TR and correctly compare it to the DPS of other classes. Let me clarify that for you a bit. TR is a single target class, if you measure the damage done in a dungeon of the TR compared to a CW or a GWF, of course at equal gear they would have more dps because the dungeons are filled with adds and what not.
In addition, claiming that a TR has no defense is basically showing your ignorance of the class. TR has probably some of the most OP defense in the game...it's called stealth.
Stealth is completely worthless in PVE and does nothing to prevent them from dying easily. Single Target Dps is nice, but for an actual dungeon run it does nothing.
Stealth is completely worthless in PVE and does nothing to prevent them from dying easily. Single Target Dps is nice, but for an actual dungeon run it does nothing.
GWF is far superior to TR for PVE.
Stealth gives more crit and makes you completely invisible to mobs (distance doesn't matter in PvE) so they can't hurt what they cannot see.
Also single target dps is very helpful if GF can keep aggro and since that's the essence of teamplay in PvE then: TR>GWF in DPS role.
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Stealth gives more crit and makes you completely invisible to mobs (distance doesn't matter in PvE) so they can't hurt what they cannot see.
Also single target dps is very helpful if GF can keep aggro and since that's the essence of teamplay in PvE then: TR>GWF in DPS role.
Single target won't make up for the amount of AOE required in every dungeon. Server merge coming up -- can't wait to see all these great rogues.
It all starts when someone states diffrent opinion than others and he becomes public enemy no. 1 and everyone start to look at you as worst of the worst, just because you have diffrent opinion on presented situation (often taking that opinion out of context).
People keep forgetting that coin has 2 sides.
Just because there are opposing arguments does not mean that both sides have equal validity. While there are some outlier cases where it is debatable if some specific circumstance is exploiting or not, there are many cases where it is blatant and undeniable. If someone accidentally falls through a hole in the map which turns out to get them ahead - fine. When scores of people start using this discovery to skip content, that's an exploit.
The single most common argument I see in favor of exploits is that the dungeons are too long/too hard/have too many adds. Well, frankly, tough! If you are not willing to play the way the game was intended to play, then either stop playing, adapt YOUR playstyle, or go play content that is more in line with the way you want to play - like short foundry missions or such.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Yea, it's creativity because someone decided to try this out to check if boss can hit him from there and guess what? He couldn't. That of course doesn't mean that you can't be hit with ranged attacks, right? You don't hide in textures to avoid damage, right?
For the 1s and 2nd Karru boss fights, there were places to stand pre-patch where nothing would hit you. Ads would ignore you. That is just about the same as standing inside the texture.
Having said that, invisible walls are a weak fix. The engine should not allow characters to climb walls that are not intended to be climbed. If keeping true to the D&D spirit, TR's would be able to climb better than a GF in full plate.
Cryptic has stated that pushing mobs off cliffs is intended (indeed, it would be a rare group that could do epic DV without pushing).
@bioshrike, @tripsofthrymr
both of you (not to mention many others) completly missed original point that was mistaken as favoring exploiting (perhaps it was my fault by being a bit sarcastic in it -> it's on first page)
I simply pointed out what was fixed and what wasn't (and hopefully will be in module 2).
My main point in all posts was how devs fixed it; instead of making something out of players creativity they simply added walls so they can't climb anymore (I heard it can still be exploited but since I don't do dungeons anymore I don't know for sure).
We already covered that it's like this because of low effort and time required to put it in game as quickly as possible.
I'd like dev to fix at least dumb AI of melee mobs that can easily be bugged by climbing on a rock. (simply add a "creative" jump skill used when the target using this "tactic", "creativity" or w/e.)
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baleriondrogonMember, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 53
edited October 2013
Fixes are always good?
" I don't know half of you as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve." -J.R.R. Tolkien
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
For the 1s and 2nd Karru boss fights, there were places to stand pre-patch where nothing would hit you. Ads would ignore you. That is just about the same as standing inside the texture.
Having said that, invisible walls are a weak fix. The engine should not allow characters to climb walls that are not intended to be climbed. If keeping true to the D&D spirit, TR's would be able to climb better than a GF in full plate.
Cryptic has stated that pushing mobs off cliffs is intended (indeed, it would be a rare group that could do epic DV without pushing).
Thanks for playing with <Future> last night. You can verify to all these forum people about GWF dps along with how we can melt mobs without the constant pushing off edges.
I hope they fix more exploits soon. It becomes boring to join a pug lately, run 5 minutes through a dungeon until someone says "Come here and die". People forget that also new players join pugs to fight through the dungeons and the first thing they will see is people abusing exploits. If people would at least keep their cheats out of the pugs and go into a premade.
The much more boring thing is fighting through the whole dungeon just to get some useless blue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from DD chest.
Then I ask you why you play a game when playing is not what you like?
This behaviour always fascinates me in MMOs - people often don't play MMOs to play them but only see playing as some kind of boring work to finally earn the items they want to have. But once having those items they are kinda pointless anyway because they become a pure status symbol that you won't need to play the game better with them since the content is boring for you anyway.
Then I ask you why you play a game when playing is not what you like?
Then I ask you where did I say playing is not what I like? What fascinates me is people who put their own opinions into the mouths of others just to be "right on teh internets". And yes, Sherlock, earning items in the item-based MMO's is the very deep sacred purpose of those MMO's, congratulations on finally figuring that out.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Thanks for playing with <Future> last night. You can verify to all these forum people about GWF dps along with how we can melt mobs without the constant pushing off edges.
Yep, went along to see how the GWF build worked out and the party smoked through groups of trolls and golems faster than a CW can push the trolls (and then you still have the golems to DPS).
Amazing how much outdated and/or inaccurate information gets retold until it becomes gospel.
Rather than debate in a vacuum, just ask for a DD invite and see.
CWs are for AoE, soooo... DC/GF/TR and 2x CW team is usually still better than one with GWF
Late last night we did a Karru run and we used a GF, 2x GWF and pugged a CW. My GWF blew her dps away. I wish we had another guild option on, but it was almost 3 AM.
Then I ask you where did I say playing is not what I like? What fascinates me is people who put their own opinions into the mouths of others just to be "right on teh internets". And yes, Sherlock, earning items in the item-based MMO's is the very deep sacred purpose of those MMO's, congratulations on finally figuring that out.
You missed the point completely. What other MMOs have you played where you were guaranteed that epic loot after completing a dungeon? So you got a blue? There is always next time! That has been the way MMOs have been played for ages. They are not meant to be a "quick fix"!
Developers cant' churn out content at will. Thus they make you have to do more than 1 run to get it. This way you meet people online... talk... have fun... It's not ALL about the loot. I mean if that is all you care about then you could play games like Diablo3 etc. MMOs allow you to run dungeons with other players... a party experience... competition among friends! It's part of the experience!
So what he is asking "the general populace" is why play and MMO if you don't like the genre as designed? There are plenty of games out there that cater to dash and grab and get the loot... MMOs are not designed that way! SO... if you don't like fighting through dungeons... then you don't really like MMOs.
Comments
It does indeed...well said, Sessler was talking about this very thing a few weeks back, that atavistic need to be 'Right" or "Vindicated" to the point of hurling insults to communicating death threats to developers, but you also need to look at the context, there are certain people here who are portraying themselves as something they aren't and they spend twelve to sixteen hours a day on the forums constantly bashing or putting down positive threads.
That screams agenda to me, it would be different if it was a honest attempt to help make the game better by providing criticism and suggestions to improve, but all we're getting here is "Fix this!!" and "Cryptic SuxX0Rz!" :rolleyes: It's one of the reasons the forums just can't be taken seriously.
Stealth is completely worthless in PVE and does nothing to prevent them from dying easily. Single Target Dps is nice, but for an actual dungeon run it does nothing.
GWF is far superior to TR for PVE.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Stealth gives more crit and makes you completely invisible to mobs (distance doesn't matter in PvE) so they can't hurt what they cannot see.
Also single target dps is very helpful if GF can keep aggro and since that's the essence of teamplay in PvE then: TR>GWF in DPS role.
Single target won't make up for the amount of AOE required in every dungeon. Server merge coming up -- can't wait to see all these great rogues.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Just because there are opposing arguments does not mean that both sides have equal validity. While there are some outlier cases where it is debatable if some specific circumstance is exploiting or not, there are many cases where it is blatant and undeniable. If someone accidentally falls through a hole in the map which turns out to get them ahead - fine. When scores of people start using this discovery to skip content, that's an exploit.
The single most common argument I see in favor of exploits is that the dungeons are too long/too hard/have too many adds. Well, frankly, tough! If you are not willing to play the way the game was intended to play, then either stop playing, adapt YOUR playstyle, or go play content that is more in line with the way you want to play - like short foundry missions or such.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
For the 1s and 2nd Karru boss fights, there were places to stand pre-patch where nothing would hit you. Ads would ignore you. That is just about the same as standing inside the texture.
Having said that, invisible walls are a weak fix. The engine should not allow characters to climb walls that are not intended to be climbed. If keeping true to the D&D spirit, TR's would be able to climb better than a GF in full plate.
Cryptic has stated that pushing mobs off cliffs is intended (indeed, it would be a rare group that could do epic DV without pushing).
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
both of you (not to mention many others) completly missed original point that was mistaken as favoring exploiting (perhaps it was my fault by being a bit sarcastic in it -> it's on first page)
I simply pointed out what was fixed and what wasn't (and hopefully will be in module 2).
My main point in all posts was how devs fixed it; instead of making something out of players creativity they simply added walls so they can't climb anymore (I heard it can still be exploited but since I don't do dungeons anymore I don't know for sure).
We already covered that it's like this because of low effort and time required to put it in game as quickly as possible.
CWs are for AoE, soooo... DC/GF/TR and 2x CW team is usually still better than one with GWF
Well you keep telling yourself that. My GWF will continue to out play any TR in any PVE dungeon.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Thanks for playing with <Future> last night. You can verify to all these forum people about GWF dps along with how we can melt mobs without the constant pushing off edges.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
The much more boring thing is fighting through the whole dungeon just to get some useless blue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from DD chest.
Then I ask you why you play a game when playing is not what you like?
This behaviour always fascinates me in MMOs - people often don't play MMOs to play them but only see playing as some kind of boring work to finally earn the items they want to have. But once having those items they are kinda pointless anyway because they become a pure status symbol that you won't need to play the game better with them since the content is boring for you anyway.
Then I ask you where did I say playing is not what I like? What fascinates me is people who put their own opinions into the mouths of others just to be "right on teh internets". And yes, Sherlock, earning items in the item-based MMO's is the very deep sacred purpose of those MMO's, congratulations on finally figuring that out.
Yep, went along to see how the GWF build worked out and the party smoked through groups of trolls and golems faster than a CW can push the trolls (and then you still have the golems to DPS).
Amazing how much outdated and/or inaccurate information gets retold until it becomes gospel.
Rather than debate in a vacuum, just ask for a DD invite and see.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Late last night we did a Karru run and we used a GF, 2x GWF and pugged a CW. My GWF blew her dps away. I wish we had another guild option on, but it was almost 3 AM.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
You missed the point completely. What other MMOs have you played where you were guaranteed that epic loot after completing a dungeon? So you got a blue? There is always next time! That has been the way MMOs have been played for ages. They are not meant to be a "quick fix"!
Developers cant' churn out content at will. Thus they make you have to do more than 1 run to get it. This way you meet people online... talk... have fun... It's not ALL about the loot. I mean if that is all you care about then you could play games like Diablo3 etc. MMOs allow you to run dungeons with other players... a party experience... competition among friends! It's part of the experience!
So what he is asking "the general populace" is why play and MMO if you don't like the genre as designed? There are plenty of games out there that cater to dash and grab and get the loot... MMOs are not designed that way! SO... if you don't like fighting through dungeons... then you don't really like MMOs.