Seisem's PVE DPS GWF Guide

seisem2 · September 2013

I've had a lot of requests to post a guide on the forums for my GWF. This guide is set as a Human GWF and is a direct build of my character on the Dragon Server. With this build I am able to out dps every class I play against, except for a few elite CWs. No Rogue or GF can come close, most CWs are millions behind, and I have yet to play with another GWF that does even close to the damage that I can pour out. This is a build that works. So here we go:

First of all, here is a link to the powers/feats build:

http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=iye:3q0hr:b0jg,13ilu3i:60000:bzu51:b0000&h=1

Feats

Heroic (23 points):
3/3 Disciple of Strength
3/3 Toughness
3/3 Endless Assault
3/3 Armor Specialization
5/5 Steely Defense
3/3 Weapon Mastery
3/3 Devastating Critical

Destroyer (26 points):
5/5 Great Weapon Focus
5/5 Deep Gash
5/5 Staying Power
5/5 Disciple of War
5/5 Focused Destroyer
1/1 Destroyer's Purpose

Sentinel (5 points):
5/5 Student of the Sword

Powers *There are several powers that we don't actually care about, but we need to put points in them in order to unlock the next tree. Here are the powers that you need to max:

At Will:
3/3 Sure Strike
3/3 Weapon Master's Strike

Encounter:
3/3 Not So Fast
3/3 Roar
3/3 Battle Fury
3/3 Indomitable Battle Strike
3/3 Takedown

Passive:
3/3 Destroyer
3/3 Weapon Master
3/3 Steel Blitz

Daily:
3/3 Spinning Strike
3/3 Slam
3/3 Cresendo

So while playing your character, here will be your main setup during dungeons:

At Will:
1. Sure Strike - This is our single target attack. I only use it when all encounters are on cooldown and there is only one mob up.
2. Weapon Masters Strike - You will be spamming this skill 85% of the run you are in. The best way is to get unstoppable and off you go. The damage is incredible.

Encounters:
1. Battle Fury - We will pop this every time it is up for the increased damage and determination gain
2. Indomitable Battle Strike - This is our hardest hitting single target hitter. It builds a ton of AP (esp when it crits) and is good to use at the last second of Unstoppable
3. Takedown - This is the best skill for interrupts on single targets. It is also a good skill to pop before unstoppable comes up for extra damage.

You can rotate Not So Fast and Roar depending on the dungeons. The reason I don't really care for Roar is because it knocks everything away. Even though it doesn't knock far, we want to keep mobs grouped up so we can spam our AOE at will attack.

Daily:
1. Spinning Strike - Usually when mobs are grouped up either before or after unstoppable is when I pop this. Tons of aoe damage. I was using Slam in this spot but since it has been nerfed I have been using this instead with success.
2. Cresendo - This is one of our most powerful attacks period. I always save this for high hp mobs and bosses when there is no AOE needed.

Passive:
1. Destroyer - We are spec'd into this so this one remains at all time
2. Steel Blitz - There is a lot of debate between this one for the enhanced damage and the extra hit and the other one (Weapon Master) that gives you extra chance to crit. Personally I prefer the Blitz.

Stats

-For your ability score you want to get all Strength and Constitution. This will raise your base power and base armor pen.
-On my GWF I am using the Ioun Stone. I have dumped all my runes into that character as Eldritch for increased Armor Penetration and the defensive slot I slotted defense. I have tried to put Eldritch in the stone for an increased % given back as stats but it does not work on my character.
-You want to get 19-24% Armor Penetration. I know some guides say to cap off at 24%, but I feel honestly having 19% is enough when you dump the rest into power.
-For Crit you may have to sacrifice some here. I am sitting at 31% crit. I prefer to stack Power over crit in my open slots. You get so much crit naturally from your gear.
-For Defense you can easily obtain high numbers based on gear. However, in defensive slots we will stack +defense instead of +deflect.
-All open offensive slots you will want to dump Rank 7+ Powers. I know at first you may only have Rank 5's, but eventually your long term goal will to be slot Rank 7+.

seisem2 · September 2013

Gear

Here is what my character is currently using for gear:

attachment.php?attachmentid=9271&d=1379364837

Every Offensive slot is slotted with a Rank 7 Radiant Enchantment for power. My weapon enchantment is currently a Greater Lightning. I chose lightning because it stacks lightning damage and since we are all about spamming AOE it just adds up a ton of DPS. Greater lightning gives you 2 chains and a perfect will give you 3 chains.

For those of you wondering, I have tried 4/4 Avatar of War but I feel that the two separate piece bonus is better.

Here is what I am currently using on my companion:

attachment.php?attachmentid=9281&d=1379367307

attachment.php?attachmentid=9281&d=1379367307

My next project is to change out the rank 6 Eldritch stones and replace them with Rank 8's. This will add 140 extra armor pen to my character and move me up 1%.

**My guide is still in progress. Boons and tips for playing are coming soon**

seisem2 · September 2013

If you have questions or comments (please be civil), feel free to ask me here or in the game @seisem2

ortzhy · September 2013

Ty for posting!! If u have ACT.. would be nice to see the dmg there, done by each ability, in a MC run till last boss. Nice solid build, probably best build atm, but from what i;m reading u are using animation canceling. For me punishing charge is just a must for getting out of sticky situations and it still builds ap per number of target it hits.

jack69ass · September 2013

Cool build.. similar to my gwf, except i havent actually try slotting battle fury during dungeon runs cuz i personally think the cooldown is too long.. Do you retain Takedown and steel blitz during dungeons boss duty? IMO its better to replace them with restoring strike and weapon master for solo/boss target..

seisem2 · September 2013

jack69ass wrote: »

Cool build.. similar to my gwf, except i havent actually try slotting battle fury during dungeon runs cuz i personally think the cooldown is too long.. Do you retain Takedown and steel blitz during dungeons boss duty? IMO its better to replace them with restoring strike and weapon master for solo/boss target..

I'm not really on boss duty on most fights. Which fight were you referring to?

The cooldown on battle fury is a bit long, but I played with it and compared to the other encounters it has been worth it. Popping it right before you spam your AOE attack makes it an extra 10% and when hitting as many mobs as I do while clearing a dungeon, it was better than not so fast, roar, etc. Plus, it builds AP fast. I have tried pretty much every encounter and that one seemed to help me do the most damage.

jack69ass · September 2013

I'm up for boss duty for some DDs, like FH and Spellplague's final boss.. i think i'll try to max battle fury n giv it a try.. but i'd miss roar.. good interrupt and build determination..

seisem2 · September 2013

jack69ass wrote: »

I'm up for boss duty for some DDs, like FH and Spellplague's final boss.. i think i'll try to max battle fury n giv it a try.. but i'd miss roar.. good interrupt and build determination..

Yea, for some fights I can see where Roar is good. I used to use it all the time myself, but the more I tried Battle Fury the more I liked it. The good thing is that with GWF we only need a few encounters and we have so many points that you can max a ton of things to test.

tarmalen · September 2013

Life Steal instead of + defense for those defensive slots.

You get a better return on the investment due to soft cap.

Also can use a 2/2 or 4 piece for plenty of regen in addition to life steal.

seisem2 · September 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

Life Steal instead of + defense for those defensive slots.

You get a better return on the investment due to soft cap.

Also can use a 2/2 or 4 piece for plenty of regen in addition to life steal.

Uh... I have no need for more life steal or regen... but thanks for the suggestion..

otterlich · September 2013

Hi!

Very nice. I personally don't use Slam for too long, but I still love the extra power it gives. Can't imagine what it did before the nerf...

I also slot Weapon Masters Strike and Steel Blitz in passive.
Encounters are: Battle Fury (lasts quite long), Indom. Battle Strike (if you align properly you can hit multiple targets. love to finish 2-3 enemies in front of me after cutting them with WMS by sprinting to either sides of their row, and unleash Battle Strike before Battle Fury stops), and Roar/Takedown. I'd prefer Flourish, but can't see if it really stuns opponent?!?
I like Roar coz I can get a little space.

I'm curious of the gear score maths. Does anyone know the exact maths? All I could figure out with my 7k GS is that 100 score improvement means approx. 0.3% increase. Is it going to change if some score goes above 3k?

Thanks in advance!

wixxgs1cht · September 2013

otterlich wrote: »

I'm curious of the gear score maths. Does anyone know the exact maths? All I could figure out with my 7k GS is that 100 score improvement means approx. 0.3% increase. Is it going to change if some score goes above 3k?
Thanks in advance!

Just add up all the stats in your char screen like power, crit, arp, etc. The sum of those equals your gear score. Note, that while augmentet pets increase your stats, they do NOT increase your gearscore.

seisem2 · September 2013

otterlich wrote: »

Hi!

Very nice. I personally don't use Slam for too long, but I still love the extra power it gives. Can't imagine what it did before the nerf...

I also slot Weapon Masters Strike and Steel Blitz in passive.
Encounters are: Battle Fury (lasts quite long), Indom. Battle Strike (if you align properly you can hit multiple targets. love to finish 2-3 enemies in front of me after cutting them with WMS by sprinting to either sides of their row, and unleash Battle Strike before Battle Fury stops), and Roar/Takedown. I'd prefer Flourish, but can't see if it really stuns opponent?!?
I like Roar coz I can get a little space.

I'm curious of the gear score maths. Does anyone know the exact maths? All I could figure out with my 7k GS is that 100 score improvement means approx. 0.3% increase. Is it going to change if some score goes above 3k?

Thanks in advance!

Yea I don't really use slam any more at all. The only times I use it are on the final bosses of Spider and MC for the interrupt. It used to be really strong (I think they nerfed it by 60%), and the fact that the animation continues while you attack is what made it OP. For other dailies, you are doing them and not able to attack... with slam I could pop slam and still AOE DPS. I love using spinning strike in a huge group of mobs, building my determination to max and right when it stops pop unstoppable with battle fury and spam AOE at will. So many numbers on the screen!

On the encounters, I tried flourish but the biggest problem is the animation. Like if the target moves or got bumped (sing) away, the animation would continue and I wouldn't put out any damage. I really like takedown in that spot. Easy to knockdown most mobs and interrupt healers/casters. Roar is nice, but I hate that it pushes the mobs away when I want them as close as possible to mow them down.

tarmalen · September 2013

Saying you have no use for life steal is saying you have no understanding of effective health.
Once you reach a point where HP is better than defense then you should slot either HP or life steal as the return from the defense enchants is weaker than the effective health you gain with life steal. Your build would benefit more effectively from life steal instead of the 1% or so defense you are slotting. Especially as a GWF who hits more than one target.

It is your build. You also requested feedback. I gave you solid feedback. Slot life steal in those defensive slots to around 8-10% and you will notice an improvement in your survivability.

seisem2 · September 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

Saying you have no use for life steal is saying you have no understanding of effective health.
Once you reach a point where HP is better than defense then you should slot either HP or life steal as the return from the defense enchants is weaker than the effective health you gain with life steal. Your build would benefit more effectively from life steal instead of the 1% or so defense you are slotting. Especially as a GWF who hits more than one target.

It is your build. You also requested feedback. I gave you solid feedback. Slot life steal in those defensive slots to around 8-10% and you will notice an improvement in your survivability.

Thanks for your feedback. I actually have some life steal on both rings along with on my pet which returns some damage. Survivability has not been an issue for my character. I feel the defense is really helping me out the way it is. The only time that I actually die is if it is a full group wipe.

nodozeno2 · September 2013

seisem2 wrote: »

I've had a lot of requests to post a guide on the forums for my GWF.

... For your ability score you want to get all Power and Constitution. ...

Minor typo... I think you meant: "For your ability scores you want to get all Strength and Constitution."

Thanks for posting and I will let you know if I see other typos.

seisem2 · September 2013

nodozeno2 wrote: »

Minor typo... I think you meant: "For your ability scores you want to get all Strength and Constitution."

Thanks for posting and I will let you know if I see other typos.

Nice Catch. It will be updated.

gannicus15 · September 2013

Hi Seisem,
I have recently observed your activity here in barracks. I don't write here often, but I can see, that you at least try to discuss GWF at his current state. I am not going to discuss serious problems about GWF, as there are many others who are not tired of posting that stuff...
Your build is quite nice. I run my GWF along similar lines, though there are differences. There are some points, which you quite miss and I think, that you can improve on them. I have built my GWF in times of spam-slam and still believe, that the AP will be eventually brought back to us, so I stick to recovery. Another reason to stick to recovery is, that it also grants armor pene in destroyer feat-tree, so you can go more power with enchants/runestones. I will present my stats and then point my reasoning behind them:

26,065 HP / 13,807 GS / 5,219 Power (+1350 Avatar) / 4,154 Crit / 1,277 ArmPene / 2,931 Recovery (+1350 Avatar) / 1,613 Def / 1,064 Life steal

26 STR / 19 CON / 15 DEX

As you can see, I don't go full dps, as I sacrifice a lot to get some extra HP and life steal to increase my survival. In this setup I am able to get aggro and tank adds, if there is no GF around. Life steal increases my survival lot more than defense, even though I loose a lot of power as result, I don't mind, it is my playstyle as you surely have yours... I also run with daring shout, as it is instant unstoppable, instant Onslaught and nice defense-boost. Arguably it contributes to my build DPS quite a lot by indirect means... Battle Fury is not a good option for me, as with big CD on three encounters (IBS, DS and BF) it would be pretty hard to maintain Onslaught. Not so Fast, Punishing strike or Roar are better in my setup. These are just suggestions and points, which you can try or not. Your way is also very good, as I used BF back in times, when there was no point in Onslaught...

But the question is, why only 1277 ArmPene? You have in your build 19% AP from your stats and claim, that you don't have enough ArmPene. In fact, you overstack AP through roof by 4% on bosses/6% on adds! As constitution grants you +% resistance ignored, with 19 CON you get +9% AP. Full info on this can be found here:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?301761-Calculating-stats-and-their-effects&p=3910442&viewfull=1#post3910442
So effectively, my recovery grants me around 600 ArmPene and another 600 is very easy to get, so I am at cap almost without any effort. Saved stats can be invested into power or another stats according to needs of the particular build.

Also on daylies. Try sometimes avalanche of steel as opening move to engage new group of enemies. It is super safe for you and for whole party as well. My mates actually expected me to do it when possible :-). You also get nice DPS, when there is lots of adds to hit (possible to get 50-100K damage when the group is bigger). The battles usually don't last so long in good parties, so normally I hit a daily at its end and have ready AoS for another group. Give it a try and you will see, if it suits you.

For now, this is all, what I have in mind. Just out of curiosity, on which server do you play (I am on dragon...)? I would be interested in test run to compare and maybe learn something new. In my guild, sadly, there are not many good GWF to engage in discussion and experience sharing. If you have anything on your mind, just write it here. :-) HF & GL

Gannicus15 aka Prima

topguides · September 2013

Hello Seisem,

Your guide looks really good.
Can I add your guide to http://mmominds.com?

Thank you

marnival · September 2013

As you use battle fury something to try out that prolly will suprice you a bit is daring shout and switch focused destroyer in feats to powerful challenge.
Now this works best with bronzewood weapon ench as you get 15% more dam on marked target from powerfull challenge.

Just a suggestion that might be fun to try out.

seisem2 · September 2013

gannicus15 wrote: »

Hi Seisem,
I have recently observed your activity here in barracks. I don't write here often, but I can see, that you at least try to discuss GWF at his current state. I am not going to discuss serious problems about GWF, as there are many others who are not tired of posting that stuff...
Your build is quite nice. I run my GWF along similar lines, though there are differences. There are some points, which you quite miss and I think, that you can improve on them. I have built my GWF in times of spam-slam and still believe, that the AP will be eventually brought back to us, so I stick to recovery. Another reason to stick to recovery is, that it also grants armor pene in destroyer feat-tree, so you can go more power with enchants/runestones. I will present my stats and then point my reasoning behind them:

26,065 HP / 13,807 GS / 5,219 Power (+1350 Avatar) / 4,154 Crit / 1,277 ArmPene / 2,931 Recovery (+1350 Avatar) / 1,613 Def / 1,064 Life steal

26 STR / 19 CON / 15 DEX

As you can see, I don't go full dps, as I sacrifice a lot to get some extra HP and life steal to increase my survival. In this setup I am able to get aggro and tank adds, if there is no GF around. Life steal increases my survival lot more than defense, even though I loose a lot of power as result, I don't mind, it is my playstyle as you surely have yours... I also run with daring shout, as it is instant unstoppable, instant Onslaught and nice defense-boost. Arguably it contributes to my build DPS quite a lot by indirect means... Battle Fury is not a good option for me, as with big CD on three encounters (IBS, DS and BF) it would be pretty hard to maintain Onslaught. Not so Fast, Punishing strike or Roar are better in my setup. These are just suggestions and points, which you can try or not. Your way is also very good, as I used BF back in times, when there was no point in Onslaught...

But the question is, why only 1277 ArmPene? You have in your build 19% AP from your stats and claim, that you don't have enough ArmPene. In fact, you overstack AP through roof by 4% on bosses/6% on adds! As constitution grants you +% resistance ignored, with 19 CON you get +9% AP. Full info on this can be found here:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?301761-Calculating-stats-and-their-effects&p=3910442&viewfull=1#post3910442
So effectively, my recovery grants me around 600 ArmPene and another 600 is very easy to get, so I am at cap almost without any effort. Saved stats can be invested into power or another stats according to needs of the particular build.

Also on daylies. Try sometimes avalanche of steel as opening move to engage new group of enemies. It is super safe for you and for whole party as well. My mates actually expected me to do it when possible :-). You also get nice DPS, when there is lots of adds to hit (possible to get 50-100K damage when the group is bigger). The battles usually don't last so long in good parties, so normally I hit a daily at its end and have ready AoS for another group. Give it a try and you will see, if it suits you.

For now, this is all, what I have in mind. Just out of curiosity, on which server do you play (I am on dragon...)? I would be interested in test run to compare and maybe learn something new. In my guild, sadly, there are not many good GWF to engage in discussion and experience sharing. If you have anything on your mind, just write it here. :-) HF & GL

Gannicus15 aka Prima

I am on dragon myself, as you can see in my signature. Feel free to message me any time. Obviously, we have a completely different setup going on.

seisem2 · September 2013

topguides wrote: »

Hello Seisem,

Your guide looks really good.
Can I add your guide to http://mmominds.com?

Thank you

Go for it.

seraphid · September 2013

i would take relentless battle fury instead of staying power, because of - 5 sec cd on battle fury, takedown and roar cd is great too.
-10% mitigation to encounter is bad, ur dmg mostly dont come from encounters, more battle fury=more overall dps.

also i would go for orc str = dex build , at 60 lv its something like 25/15/25 with campfire buff.
Reason is we want to use vorpal and we dont slot weapon master, few feats benefit a lot from crts, so going that build provide around 40-42 % crt chance. its 10% more than you and its really a LOT, u just put few arp gems instead of power, which is not big difference, if u have 3k recovery-it add 750 arp so its needed 890 - 1000 arp(22-24%, for me 22% is perfectly fine) from gear which is easy with stone.

i would also get 10% life steal, its really underrated stat, but after i got 10% on my CW(every DPS class should at least try it in dg's), for me its as important as having 22% arp+ in dungeons, u cant always hope for heal from DC,if u want to do something good, do it by urself

.

seisem2 · September 2013

seraphid wrote: »

i would take relentless battle fury instead of staying power, because of - 5 sec cd on battle fury, takedown and roar cd is great too.
-10% mitigation to encounter is bad, ur dmg mostly dont come from encounters, more battle fury=more overall dps.

also i would go for orc str = dex build , at 60 lv its something like 25/15/25 with campfire buff.
Reason is we want to use vorpal and we dont slot weapon master, few feats benefit a lot from crts, so going that build provide around 40-42 % crt chance. its 10% more than you and its really a LOT, u just put few arp gems instead of power, which is not big difference, if u have 3k recovery-it add 750 arp so its needed 890 - 1000 arp(22-24%, for me 22% is perfectly fine) from gear which is easy with stone.

Thank you for your feedback. I have been changing things around a lot based on feedback from this forum to try different theories that others have. As I have posted on another thread, I don't buy the ARMPEN CAP - Con theory. When I was "overcapping" on ARMPEN (via my stone) I was doing more damage than I am by just removing the arm pen (dropped to 1200 for testing).

Also, Power/Con is more valuable than Dex for me. Con gives me HP and it's own Arm Pen where dex only gives me crit. I feel that the crit chance I have is enough. 10% is not a difference to me. Remember, it's a chance to crit not guarantee 10% more crits. My recovery is fine esp when I'm using Full Avatar of war (I can keep the bonus up about 95% of the time during a dungeon).

seisem2 · September 2013

I've changed my build a bit due to using Full Avatar of war as my preference over 2/2 Vig War. I will post screens and build later.

belprah · September 2013

Hi,

I've posted my concerns about Spinning Strike on several other threads already, but I'm curious what your opinion is of its shortcomings, which currently are:
- animation spin-up + cast time = 4-5 seconds = Student of the Sword expiring by the time Spinning ends.
- Destroyer stacks gone the moment Spinning Strike is canceled/done casting.

I suppose that the core of my question is to ask if you feel that the buff done to SS is sufficient to overcome the temporary DPS drop from having to rebuild stacks of SotS and Destroyer.

Also, the issue with disappearing feature buffs from Spinning Strike completion/cancellation has been around for a long while, as proven by the existence of this thread. Except the thread mentions that it also wipes VW 4 piece bonus. Have you observed such a thing happening with 4/4 AoW?

tarmalen · September 2013

Soft cap. Roughly 24% puts you there. Pushing it past that point means you are investing more for less return. Wiser to move on to another stat and push it to a softcap. Unless you have them all at soft cap...then stack what you want ArP, Recovery, or Power.

seisem2 · September 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

Soft cap. Roughly 24% puts you there. Pushing it past that point means you are investing more for less return. Wiser to move on to another stat and push it to a softcap. Unless you have them all at soft cap...then stack what you want ArP, Recovery, or Power.

I don't believe this cap is correct. I have read the forum post by the guy who went through all his "raw data numbers", but via my testing I have to disagree. What I have noticed is that if I take away arm pen and replace with power I get the same as taking away power and replacing with arm pen. Taking Arm Pen away completely and putting recovery/crit lowers my dps.

tarmalen · September 2013

Seisem2 - I am trying to help you. Why would you spend 400 defense on less than 1% increase when you could slot 400 (another stat) for close to 4% increase? Once you hit a softcap then slot enchants to other stats that are not softcap.

Yes you can continue slotting ArP but there will come a point where you are slotting 500 for less than 1% increase in ArP. And slotting it into crit would be far more effective.

seisem2 · September 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

Seisem2 - I am trying to help you. Why would you spend 400 defense on less than 1% increase when you could slot 400 (another stat) for close to 4% increase? Once you hit a softcap then slot enchants to other stats that are not softcap.

Yes you can continue slotting ArP but there will come a point where you are slotting 500 for less than 1% increase in ArP. And slotting it into crit would be far more effective.

A Rank 7 Crit gives me .06% chance to crit more. The power and arm pen have more return on investment.

Remember, crit is a CHANCE to crit. Power and Armpen are 100% every time.

You can keep your life steal, I will keep my defense.

tarmalen · September 2013

See, you do understand diminishing returns! I was merely giving an example.

Also yes...I will keep life steal.

Though you really should go and get 1k life steal and give it a test drive.

Seisem's PVE DPS GWF Guide

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