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A letter to the developers

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  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I hope they manage to fix the dungeon exploiting problem, it seems to be getting worse. what's the fun in that?
    I don't play MMO's for the epic loots, I play because they're fun. If people are exploiting dungeons and bosses it takes out the fun of it...
    My best memories in MMO's are about doing hard dungeons/raids, getting whiped out because we didn't know how to do to do the dungeon and/or kill the boss, and after a few tries, we learned how to do it, and mamaged to finish it. Exploiting the dungeons takes all that fun away :(
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • zalcszalcs Banned Users Posts: 345 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    The reward for killing the monsters is, getting to the bosses...
    or else the developers could just leave the dungeon empty and place a boss right at the entrance.

    Spare me. The reward for killing trash is nothing, thus you want to skip them to get to the boss faster.
  • zenzebzenzeb Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    sadly I have to agree with alot of this. playing a PUG T2 usually gets wiped out, so can be tough. Hard can be good, but getting T2 gear has gotten extremely hard. The amount of time required to advance GS is slow 1,138 rank 4s to get a SINGLE rank 8? that's going to take months and months and then you need to come up with wards. Jeez, maybe Donald Trump can afford this game but I sure cant, so I just twaddle along and maybe in a year or so I will have some rank 8s. oh well.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Spare me. The reward for killing trash is nothing, thus you want to skip them to get to the boss faster.
    And how does it work in other games? trash gives more items? it's not possible to skip them? where's the difference here?
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • krinamankrinaman Member Posts: 129 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    reiwulf wrote: »
    And how does it work in other games? trash gives more items? it's not possible to skip them? where's the difference here?

    Some games have the possibility of good drops from trash. This would result in "trash runs" (clearing all the trash up to the first boss) by pugs who couldn't complete the content.
  • seisem2seisem2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    krinaman wrote: »
    Some games have the possibility of good drops from trash. This would result in "trash runs" (clearing all the trash up to the first boss) by pugs who couldn't complete the content.

    Exactly. They need to keep it the way it is, just fix the campfires so you can't skip the trash.
    Seisem - DC 13K GS
    Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS

    <Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)

    Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
  • fathomfulfathomful Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 207 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    krinaman wrote: »
    Some games have the possibility of good drops from trash. This would result in "trash runs" (clearing all the trash up to the first boss) by pugs who couldn't complete the content.

    Not for sure this would work.

    The loot would have to be worse than what can be gained from defeating bosses and drop rate would be terrible.

    If the dungeon bosses are not worth the trouble running, why would you spend more time to get less reward.

    Issue is people are lazy. You can do crafting which will get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can do Shandalar which can get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can do PvP which can get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can use cash to purchase items to get to T1 and T2 level. You can run easy dailies and use AD to purchase items to get to T1 and T2 level.

    There are multiple avenues of getting geared enough for any dungeon (even if you believe they are really hard which is debatable).

    However people dont want to do that. They dont want to run profession events and gather mats to make a full +6 purple set. They dont want to have to grind Shandalar to get the new set. They dont want to run things they can handle to get tokens/drops for getting other items in harder content.

    They want to show up, get easy gear, overgear content, destroy content, then complain they have nothing to do and end game is broke.
  • seisem2seisem2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    zalcs wrote: »
    Spare me. The reward for killing trash is nothing, thus you want to skip them to get to the boss faster.

    Every single RPG has some form of trash that you have to fight to get to the boss.
    Seisem - DC 13K GS
    Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS

    <Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)

    Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
  • seisem2seisem2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    reiwulf wrote: »
    I hope they manage to fix the dungeon exploiting problem, it seems to be getting worse. what's the fun in that?
    I don't play MMO's for the epic loots, I play because they're fun. If people are exploiting dungeons and bosses it takes out the fun of it...
    My best memories in MMO's are about doing hard dungeons/raids, getting whiped out because we didn't know how to do to do the dungeon and/or kill the boss, and after a few tries, we learned how to do it, and mamaged to finish it. Exploiting the dungeons takes all that fun away :(

    I've found that the people who do the exploits are usually the worst players I've played with. They do low dps, take stupid deaths, can't figure out bosses, don't know their class, etc. That's why they cheat. They simply are not good at the game.
    Seisem - DC 13K GS
    Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS

    <Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)

    Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I'm not really familiar with the famous dungeon exploitinb but I guess it has to do with running through all the mobs until you're closer to the next spawn point and then let it kill you so when you respawn you respawn actually more forward from where you actually were?
    If this is the problem wouldn't that be solved simply by removing any respawn points inside the dungeon? (except maybe one in at the beginning)
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • sominatorsominator Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Hey all, thanks so much for your feedback about dungeons and rewards. We appreciate it and can certainly use it as we keep optimizing the endgame experience.

    Cheers!
    Proud member of Team Fencebane, official guild of the unofficial Neverwinter Adventure Hour!
  • cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    fathomful wrote: »
    Not for sure this would work.

    The loot would have to be worse than what can be gained from defeating bosses and drop rate would be terrible.

    If the dungeon bosses are not worth the trouble running, why would you spend more time to get less reward.

    Issue is people are lazy. You can do crafting which will get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can do Shandalar which can get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can do PvP which can get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can use cash to purchase items to get to T1 and T2 level. You can run easy dailies and use AD to purchase items to get to T1 and T2 level.

    There are multiple avenues of getting geared enough for any dungeon (even if you believe they are really hard which is debatable).

    However people dont want to do that. They dont want to run profession events and gather mats to make a full +6 purple set. They dont want to have to grind Shandalar to get the new set. They dont want to run things they can handle to get tokens/drops for getting other items in harder content.

    They want to show up, get easy gear, overgear content, destroy content, then complain they have nothing to do and end game is broke.

    Yep. I couldn't agree more.
  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited September 2013
    fathomful wrote: »
    Not for sure this would work.

    The loot would have to be worse than what can be gained from defeating bosses and drop rate would be terrible.

    If the dungeon bosses are not worth the trouble running, why would you spend more time to get less reward.

    Issue is people are lazy. You can do crafting which will get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can do Shandalar which can get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can do PvP which can get you to T1 and T2 level really easy. You can use cash to purchase items to get to T1 and T2 level. You can run easy dailies and use AD to purchase items to get to T1 and T2 level.

    There are multiple avenues of getting geared enough for any dungeon (even if you believe they are really hard which is debatable).

    However people dont want to do that. They dont want to run profession events and gather mats to make a full +6 purple set. They dont want to have to grind Shandalar to get the new set. They dont want to run things they can handle to get tokens/drops for getting other items in harder content.

    They want to show up, get easy gear, overgear content, destroy content, then complain they have nothing to do and end game is broke.

    Pretty much this. The only thing making CN and Malabog difficult right now is that the bosses red splat attacks are bugged as hell.

    If anything I would like to see more challenging content that requires more players. There's no activities for my guild to do that I can't do in pugs. This game feels less like an MMO and more like an online co-op game. Where are the guild activities? The GvG? The raids? The zone bosses?

    Content, especially the expansion, has been made so casual and solo friendly that there's hardly any reason to group, and when you do group, it can be 5 of anyone for all but the most challenging dungeons, and those dungeons are challenging not due to mechanics, or adds, but bugged bosses, enchantments that don't work and bugged player abilities.

    I get my characters to level 60 and 12k GS or so (rank 7 enchants and normal wep/armor enchants), then the only thing I have left to do is solo in the X-pack or roll a new toon.
  • zalcszalcs Banned Users Posts: 345 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    seisem2 wrote: »
    I've found that the people who do the exploits are usually the worst players I've played with. They do low dps, take stupid deaths, can't figure out bosses, don't know their class, etc. That's why they cheat. They simply are not good at the game.

    If that's the only group you think is exploiting, you're highly delusional, sorry to tell ya.
  • baeyornbaeyorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    using a wow-example..

    In ICC heroic 25, we found a way to selectively pull the trash going up to blood queen lanathel (sp). Have a hunter use eyes of the beast on their pet.. have the pet run in and agro a group then run out..

    with two hunters in our group, we literally beast-pulled the trash all the way to the prince trio.

    Within 2 days of us finding this out, nearly every guild on our server running ICC heroic 25 used the pet-pull method to pull the trash. It made the trash fights manageable and sweet instead of chaotic and wipe.

    My point is this.. if there is a way to lessen trash/add impact by any means, players from casual to hard-core will use it.
  • seisem2seisem2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    zalcs wrote: »
    If that's the only group you think is exploiting, you're highly delusional, sorry to tell ya.

    There is no other reason to cheat.
    Seisem - DC 13K GS
    Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS

    <Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)

    Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
  • krinamankrinaman Member Posts: 129 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    seisem2 wrote: »
    There is no other reason to cheat.

    The "elite" players cheat to get it done faster/easier. Just like everyone else.
  • nehemiah217nehemiah217 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    +1 to the OP.
  • gek1956gek1956 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    krinaman wrote: »
    The "elite" players cheat to get it done faster/easier. Just like everyone else.

    money money money money

    Look at the T2 scalping on the AH ...... ;)

    Or attempted scalping... just this morning I watched at least 100 items, last last of the over 400k club time out. YES!!!

    that cost the posters around 800k .... AWWW.....
  • stalogstalog Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I don't know if it's been touched on yet, because I quickly grew bored of the massive walls of text but here are some other things that need to be touched on.

    Firstly, the gates in GG-PvP. Put an invisable wall up so that teams can't leave early and jump the score gun. It's cheating and frankly you should have a team watching for people who do this and ban them instantly.

    Secondly, fix the pathing in dungeons so that you can't just skip mobs any more. It's an exploit and a cheat to find these "paths" to avoid mobs and cheat dungeons, for easy loot. I play the game to experience it, not skip it.

    Thirdly, This one is pvp releated, and yes I understand that Neverwinter is not at it's heart a PvP game. None the less, I am tired of being a "Control" Wizard in PvP, and constantly seeing the word "Immune pop up on every class except control wizards who have the Soulforged Enchantment. Either reduce the time of these abilities, or remove the word control from the Wizard class.

    Fourth on the list. Mounts. Again we're back to GG-PvP and actually Arena PvP too. The speed differences between the quality of mounts, from white to epic is beyond absurd, and the cost of the training manuals is even are out of the range of people who cannot devote their entire days to playing the game because they have real lives that come first.

    Fith, is Stealth. Trickster Rogue damage is not actually a huge concern to me, but the fact that I have again in GG and Arena PvP, come across rogues who could stay stealthed indefinitely so long as they stayed in combat is ridiculous. I play a Control Wizard, and should not have to play "Hide and go seek" to get into melee range to have a chance against rogues. Keep in mine we are designed as a ranged class not melee. Also while your at it, Change Rogues to Control Rogues and us to just Wizards.

    Sixth, Make the Control Wizard Paragon path not suck total *beep*. Seriously, the Daily it gives us at best, is situational and clearly designed for PvP which is such a pathetic part of the game. Beyond that the only two really useful parts of it are Spell Storm, which is completely dependent on how much the RNG hates or loves you, and Eye of the storm which again we're back at the RNG. So as awesome as they should be, they still half suck.
    I am sure some of the other classes feel the same about their Paragon paths.

    Seventh on my long list of fixes. I get that they are called epic dungeons for a reason and that the original poster already touched up on this, but yes, even to some of the most hard core players your epic dungeons are way to **** hard. Maybe take them down half a notch or even just a quarter of one and baby step it until they are doable without being a total cake walk. Hell even some of them on regular, are borderline impossible, when you're leveling up.

    Eighth. Fix your tooltips. I know you said all glory and "token" gear was becoming BoP, but fact is a lot of items like companions do not reflect this on vendors. Fix it. On that same note, unbind tokens. At the very least everything before unicorn. I know I'm tired of looking at the stock pile of tokens and bounty coins I can't do a thing with in my currency inventory and having alts who could royally benefit. Or make the token gear unbound again so that we can make these bound currencies useful again.

    Ninth. Make the daily dungeon random at sixty. Sick to death of seeing "Dread Vualt."

    Ten blends in with the one about the cost of mount manuals. Make the cost of upgrading our companions a bit more manageable. Unless we're willing to spend RL money, or try to play the AH to constantly turn a profit in AD, this is nearly impossible for the relaxed and casual players. I'd say I'm somewhere between Casual and Hardcore

    Eleven. This one comes in two parts. First make a suggestion thread and make it public. No packs needed, no need to spend RL money, everyone can post. Open the bug report forums to everyone to start new threads. It sucks to find a bug or glich and not see a post to piggyback on so I have to hijack someone elses thread. If you can't do this, then make an account purchase that's on the zen market that is a reasonable price and let us use zen to buy the ability to post like pack owners.

    Twelve, Fix the stat for Control Wizards and Divine Clerics to aid in our stamina regeneration, or like with Guardian Fighters give us a different resource. The fact that as casters we would have to place points into str to up our stamina regeneration is a bit stupid. How about chaning it to Mana and basing it off or prime/Secondary Stats.
  • drbaalsdrbaals Member Posts: 161 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    As a newbee i am worried only been playing for few weeks and i am at lvl 40 already and i only play hour or hour and half at a time. Then i read on here all the issues with the game and get even more worried about its future. I for one will never give the game a dime of my funds because i know how the F2P model works. Thats one thing i hate about F2P if you want to get the cool stuff you pretty much have to spend money on them. And then they over price everything also so much on this game. Its sad cause i like the game well DnD Neverwinter theme, but i really dont think this game is going to last that long.

    I for one cant wait for Wildstar i seen and played that in Seatle that MMO looks and plays sweet. Guess i will keep trying this game until something better comes along.
  • seisem2seisem2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    krinaman wrote: »
    The "elite" players cheat to get it done faster/easier. Just like everyone else.

    There is nothing elite about cheating.... plain an simple.
    Seisem - DC 13K GS
    Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS

    <Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)

    Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
  • xilinearxilinear Member Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    As a player who had quit after that dreadful Caturday and those 2 DC + 2 CW+ 1TR dungeon groups owns all. I have to say that there has been quite an improvement to the game and it is miles away from what it was at open beta. I am really enjoying the new content as well as the new Malabog castle dungeon which is arguably a clear change of design of boss mechanics. While the former dungeons, I agree, are Boss spams tons of adds deal with it.

    The new dungeon has more challenging bosses with less adds but powerful ones, I like this style better. It makes the whole party switch attention to what is happening in the battlefield instead of the old "TR on boss, rest on adds" mentality-

    But please continue fixing bugs, and remove the BoP aspect from everything that is not the high end stuff, i.e. keep BoP on T2 set items/Ancient Weapons and remove it from everything else. Why? Because you have to earn it with skills, and not ding 60, pop your credit card and get full avatar set with R8 enchants and ancient sword but you didnt even set foot in Clock tower epic and have no idea about how a dungeon looks like...makes no sense.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    OP, you've played eve online and you complain about difficulty here? There must be something wrong.

    Neverwinter is an easy game, but yes, you can't do random <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and the little challenges are also here to make good players stay. If they nerf the difficulty, you'll only have very casual players left. I don't agree to give free loots to cluless players, using their random choice of spells at random times with a random build.

    Malabog is buggy at the moment, it's easy, unless the final boss kills you with invisible aoes. CN? Really easy, but you need the proper team and thinking about a strategy. But most of the times, if your CW is clueless and if your cleric is terrible, you will not kill any boss, that's a fact. So, tell them to get better at it instead?
  • kaiserschmarrnkaiserschmarrn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 390
    edited September 2013
    I have a 60 of every class and 4 crafting profs at max. I have done CN on my cleric, rogue and CW several times, but in the last months I only log in for tokens anymore, since I find dungeons no longer fun, pvp is not my thing and there is nothing else to do.

    Me and my guildmates come from a large forum, in the beginning we had 3 guilds of 500 players each (including alts ofc, but that's still several hundred individuals), already in June/July we were lucky if even 10 showed up anymore in guild chat.

    The endgame is not fun, every boss is just add-hell and the fine line between success and failure depends on the skill of your CW. Stuff like T2 Pirate King was super-easy for us once we had some gear. But CN is simply not fun, the instance takes way too long and the boss fights are stupidly hard, where one mistake will lead to a wipe. Also the design decision that the Dracolich fight requires a CW (or better 2) is just rotten at the core.

    The remains of our former 3 guilds don't even bother with the new content because of the bugged boss fight. To get me interested in the game again you need to rebalance every T2 dungeon and move away from the "spam hundred adds" boss design.
  • zalcszalcs Banned Users Posts: 345 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    seisem2 wrote: »
    There is nothing elite about cheating.... plain an simple.

    I do think you understand, you just refuse to. That's okay, we won't try to explain it to you any more.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    zalcs wrote: »
    I do think you understand, you just refuse to. That's okay, we won't try to explain it to you any more.

    LOL "we!?", more like -> i.

    Seisem is right and by the way, This person is one of the few with a sense of dignity on here. Show some respect.

  • drbaalsdrbaals Member Posts: 161 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    dar981 wrote: »
    While I am a new player, I am seeing this on many frustrating battles about midway in the game already, people simply quitting on bosses that constantly daze/stun, throw, stun, throw, slap, stun, throw, teleport..its annoying, some areas, it actually making people queasy with all that constant teleporting around, especially when your locked to a target... its almost funny, ontop of that the boss battles can go on for a very very long time, all i get is like 3000 ad? for 1 hours work and virtually no useable loot?

    (I should say I find it annoying as Im constantly changing camera angles to find my boss target!)

    The loot drops in the dungeons appear to be so random and of poor quality, some times I wonder why I just spent 45 minutes doing in this particular dungeon and I am only halfway through the game (level 44), I cannot imagine how bad the level 60 players must feel...

    I also feel the economy is also driving away players as well, I am not a big MMO player of any BIG games, so I have no angst about games in general, just feel that the direction the developers are taking with this game seems to be the wrong one...

    Also levelling is far too easy and needs to be rectified, the levelling curve needs to be adjusted down... I have only been here a week and Im already level 44 and I am not even trying...

    I urge the developers to take these constructive points from all players seriously as its spoiling a game with a lot of potential...

    I should honestly say that I am a new player and even I am starting to worry if getting to level 60 is even worth my time, it seems the more I read, the more players are being punished at the higher end of the gear spectrum. I dont mind earning my gear and working for it, but so far its seems to be sheer blind luck if you get anything at all in this game and that bothers me greatly...

    Same here i gots a lvl 43 GF and i been playing even less then when i started. Only maybe 22 hours over 3 weeks or 3 weeks and few days. there is i hear no good endgame content either. One thing that isnt leveling as fast is my professions why such a huge difference. I hear leadership is the only real profession because you can farm AD with it. all the other ones are useless.

    This game does seem like its game model is to get people into it for only short time and rake in as much money before they realize they got over charged or feel ripped off. I for one wont fall for the F2P trap, but most people do fall for it. Most people are not educated in how a F2P game model works.
  • fallout1111fallout1111 Member Posts: 71
    edited September 2013
    Enjoy the game for what it is Drbaals, just realize that it becomes a dead end at some point. Sooner for some, later for others.
  • hopehoranhopehoran Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I have to say I agree with most of what I read here. But what is really missing here is an actual response from Cryptic addressing these issues. A "thank you" just doesn't cut it for me. Let's get somebody here that can address these issues. I won't be buying anymore Zen until something changes. Once it runs out, I will not be buying anymore. I was interested in their new "Charge" program but won't be participating. Fix the game already and address the concerns Cryptic.
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