You are one of the TR fan boys holding on to the lie that TR is balanced. Why? Possibly since you mostley play your TR or that you play your TR wrong.
Denying the fact that TR is OP shows how little you know.
Look at the videos I posted and see that the TR is OP. If you don't agree it is time for reality check.
Saying you do well with all classes doesn't say anything to me. Post a video or don't say it!
I mostly play my CW and I decimate TR's that don't have P. Vorpal, Gtene's, and very high HP, which make up 1-2% of TR's. My GWF destroys TR"s, my GF destroys TR's, my cleric laughs when prophetic action negates TR's LB completely haha. My TR does ok but he has no burst, sustained damage + regen, I don't even slot Lashing blade.
Edit: I know exactly how OP they can be, as I have the best TR's on server in my guild. But to be strong they need a ~40 mil investment. You simply can't nerf an entire class b/c of the top 1% of that class' players.
The reason that so many people defend the TR is that they have no where near the success rate that all the people bashing TR's are talking about, b/c they are all talking about the handful of TR's that can actually kill most classes easily. Also a ~40 mil GF or GWF stomps on a similar geared TR most of the time.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You are one of the TR fan boys holding on to the lie that TR is balanced. Why? Possibly since you mostley play your TR or that you play your TR wrong.
Denying the fact that TR is OP shows how little you know.
Look at the videos I posted and see that the TR is OP. If you don't agree it is time for reality check.
Saying you do well with all classes doesn't say anything to me. Post a video or don't say it!
Name calling already.... Abacuser all someone has to do is look up your thread that complains about TRs to see you have no creditability. *shakes his head* You simply want to nerf TRs for your own gain and not because they are unbalanced. The video you posted in your own thread shows it.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Sigh, the big letters in red do not give your argument more weight. It even reduces it. I guess you have never rolled a TR to claim in stealth has no utilization in PVE. Stealth is really a TR's main defense since they do not have heavy armor or the range to stun people like CWs. The subject was damage dealt by lashing blade, lashing blade knocks the TR out of stealth, and now you are attacking stealth. There are ways to attack even stealthed TRs. It is more difficult like it is more difficult to attack GFs because of their shield/block. So the GF block/shield being able to block just about anything and in some cases attacks done behind the GF, possibly only on Dragon, is working as intended. *shakes his head* Nerfs all around to every class! Come on Come all get your NERF!
lol single player content up to lvl 60 is pick in the nose easy, done it three times. In multi player dungeons Tr do not need stealth, sure its a nifty tool to have but nothing more. They still have dodge. GF for his block gave up dodge and speed making it the slowest class by far and it takes skill to master propper block. So try again with TRs and stealth argument in PvE but with more passion this time. Im not demanding for stealth to be gone permanently but it needs to be toned down, it has too many things going for it. For a tool that i repeat essentially lets you PICK opponents ( other classes cant do that) it needs to be balanced with some debufs so it will not be the way it is now, broken as intented. The subject is stealth and damage from it in general. P.S. in case you missed last patch nerf bat was swung generously. And you seem to have selective reading on top of it i will repeat, i do not care if TRs non stealth abilities get a boost to compensate.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
The point of this QQ is...hmmm, my armor. Even before patch it was near 2 mil AD. I want it to actually you know, work?
well, a TR to have enough arpen to bust through your armor like that would need (just my opinion, players are free to fix this) at least:
7 Dark enchants rank 8 (500k+ AD each of them on the cheapest), totalizing 3,5m at least just on enchants.
And likelly the pvp t2 GG set (but this one they can just farm on GG with 0 cost, but we can research on AH for the value of each piece if you want)
so you see, just his enchants are already a bigger investiment than your 2m armor, so i believe its fair to say that if you want your 2m investiment to be worth it, so will the TRs want their 3,5m investiment to be.
And IF a TR intends on gvorpal, or pvorpal, you can add another 5-10m to that investiment.
lol single player content up to lvl 60 is pick in the nose easy, done it three times. In multi player dungeons Tr do not need stealth, sure its a nifty tool to have but nothing more. They still have dodge. GF for his block gave up dodge and speed making it the slowest class by far and it takes skill to master propper block. So try again with TRs and stealth argument in PvE but with more passion this time. Im not demanding for stealth to be gone permanently but it needs to be toned down, it has too many things going for it. For a tool that i repeat essentially lets you PICK opponents ( other classes cant do that) it needs to be balanced with some debufs so it will not be the way it is now, broken as intented. The subject is stealth and damage from it in general. P.S. in case you missed last patch nerf bat was swung generously. And you seem to have selective reading on top of it i will repeat, i do not care if TRs non stealth abilities get a boost to compensate.
Lol long term stealth which requires the correct spec, the correct gear, meeting required softcaps, 2/3 encounters for stealth generation only, perfect timing, specific passives, and staying away from enemies until the right time as when your stealth is broken you're dead within 2 seconds is nose picking easy.
However pressing shift when you see an encounter being cast, that's where the real skill comes in...
I have GF and TR. GF is faceroll easy to get top kills/score in PvP. Once I land bull charge or frontline they are dead. TR requires specific everything to be successful and even then it isn't guarenteed if they have a tanky team comp.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Name calling already.... Abacuser all someone has to do is look up your thread that complains about TRs to see you have no creditability. *shakes his head* You simply want to nerf TRs for your own gain and not because they are unbalanced. The video you posted in your own thread shows it.
I've learned that it is no use discussing with people that is separated from reality. You try to judge my credibility while yours is non-existent.
So you suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect. Thank you for making that clear. That explains why you are so biased against TRs and want them nerfed for your own gain. You play as a good CW abacuser and your own video shows this to be true. You are only lowering yourself wanting nerfs because sometimes TRs kill you in pvp. This basically means you want nerfs for your own gain and not because class is unbalanced. *shakes his head*
1. Abacuser was at approximately 65% health when the first CoS daggers hit
2. Abacuser actually dodged the Shadow Strike so he didn't get dazed
3. Abacuser summoned his bowling ball the Rogue pops lurkers (you can hear it as the ball lands) and the Rogue briefly appears in front of him so this was taken post patch (mistake by the rogue)
4. Abacuser dodged the first impact shot, second lands and doesn't break stealth coz of lurkers but lurkers expires shortly after hence bait and switch
5. Couple more hits with CoS and finish with third Impact Shot to kill Abacuser.
So the rogue was forced to pretty well blow everything to kill a half-dead CW. It would be different if the TR killed Abacuser in one or two hits.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I mostly play my CW and I decimate TR's that don't have P. Vorpal, Gtene's, and very high HP, which make up 1-2% of TR's. My GWF destroys TR"s, my GF destroys TR's, my cleric laughs when prophetic action negates TR's LB completely haha. My TR does ok but he has no burst, sustained damage + regen, I don't even slot Lashing blade.
So you are saying all your classes own TR with ease?
Extend your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and land please!
So you are saying all your classes own TR with ease?
Extend your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and land please!
Did you even read the description of the video you linked? TR from Lemonade Stand (arguably the best PvP guild on all of NW) with Perfect terror and no doubt BiS everything including Gtene's.
So you have a video from one of the best TR's in the entire game killing people and therefore you want to nerf TR.
By your logic we should increase the speed limit to 150 MPH as the best nascar drivers have no problem driving at that speed.
Or make Theoretical Physics a requirement for Gen. Ed. degree since Stephen Hawking finds it so easy.
Yes I find it easy to kill "normal" TR's. My TR has BiS armor and rank 7 enchants but certainly no Tene's and no P weapon enchant, I couldn't come close to the guy in that video, but you want to nerf my and pretty much 98% of other TR's b/c of that one guy? Let me give you a hint, even if you did get the nerf, the people in lemonade stand will still destroy you every time without fail. All it will do is make all the regular TR's suck.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
lol single player content up to lvl 60 is pick in the nose easy, done it three times. In multi player dungeons Tr do not need stealth, sure its a nifty tool to have but nothing more. They still have dodge. GF for his block gave up dodge and speed making it the slowest class by far and it takes skill to master propper block. So try again with TRs and stealth argument in PvE but with more passion this time. Im not demanding for stealth to be gone permanently but it needs to be toned down, it has too many things going for it. For a tool that i repeat essentially lets you PICK opponents ( other classes cant do that) it needs to be balanced with some debufs so it will not be the way it is now, broken as intented. The subject is stealth and damage from it in general. P.S. in case you missed last patch nerf bat was swung generously. And you seem to have selective reading on top of it i will repeat, i do not care if TRs non stealth abilities get a boost to compensate.
The main purpose of this thread was the heavy damage done by TRs and joncans's armor not blocking it complete. You want to change it to stealth not working as intended. You want the damage done by TRs to be boosted as long as the stealth ability is nerfed. So that means the TRs would be doing more damage that would be getting through joncan's armor.
The nerf bat was swung generously against TRs only in your opinion while GFs hardly got any nerf. The main thing nerfed was TR's ability to do damage. Trs are meant to be a heavy damage dealing class with low defense. So yeah, reverse the nerfs below and nerf stealth in the name of balance. Maybe even make the bonuses given to the TR's powers by stealth constant and nerf stealth will work as well instead of reversing the nerfs below. Block is a core mechanic of GFs and Stealth is a core part of TRs. I also note how you mention single player content and do not mention the five player dungeons. Try again with your argument that stealth has no utilization in PVE.
Daily:
1. Shocking execution does not 1 hit kill people and was nerfed in the first balancing patch NW.3.20130529d.6. "Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%."
2. Lurker's Assault was nerfed from 60% damage bonus to 25% in the latest "balancing" patch NW.5.20130812b.8.
At wills:
1. A TR is not immune when using Duelist's flurry. Sometimes the TR is moved along with a player while using Duelist's Flurry. The bleed stack was capped or nerfed at a stack of 10 instead of being infinite in the current "balancing" patch. NW.5.20130812b.8
2. Cloud of steel was nerfed from 12 daggers to 8 in the latest "balancing" update.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
For all the TR complainers I really suggest making one. That's the easiest way to see all of their weaknesses and counter them. It's so easy to counter all but the most heavily geared TR's. Only the P. vorpal Gtene high hp ones really give me trouble these days. And that's what 1-2% of TR's?
No thanks, I hate the class that much, that I will never touch one. I'd feel like a hypocrite. And the last part is not true. A medium geared TR with all their stuns, immune, stealth, can easily crit kill from behind while invisible. The only thing that separates them from the uber TR is they go down a bit faster...if you can catch them.
I said before, the average lashing dmg I take is 15-16k. That is still MONSTER dmg from an unseen enemy.
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Did you even read the description of the video you linked? TR from Lemonade Stand (arguably the best PvP guild on all of NW) with Perfect terror and no doubt BiS everything including Gtene's.
So you have a video from one of the best TR's in the entire game killing people and therefore you want to nerf TR.
By your logic we should increase the speed limit to 150 MPH as the best nascar drivers have no problem driving at that speed.
Or make Theoretical Physics a requirement for Gen. Ed. degree since Stephen Hawking finds it so easy.
Yes I find it easy to kill "normal" TR's. My TR has BiS armor and rank 7 enchants but certainly no Tene's and no P weapon enchant, I couldn't come close to the guy in that video, but you want to nerf my and pretty much 98% of other TR's b/c of that one guy? Let me give you a hint, even if you did get the nerf, the people in lemonade stand will still destroy you every time without fail. All it will do is make all the regular TR's suck.
Could not agree more and check out the video of abacuser fighting in pvp he posted. All the players in Lemonade Stand, not just the TRs, are probably the best players in pvp because of their gear and skills.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No thanks, I hate the class that much, that I will never touch one. I'd feel like a hypocrite. And the last part is not true. A medium geared TR with all their stuns, immune, stealth, can easily crit kill from behind while invisible. The only thing that separates them from the uber TR is they go down a bit faster...if you can catch them.
I said before, the average lashing dmg I take is 15-16k. That is still MONSTER dmg from an unseen enemy.
Really no reason to hate, everyone should love! The world would be a much better place if everyone stopped hating and stopped being biased against this or that. *Hugs Joncans* :cool:
note: This post is meant to be humorous. :cool:
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
No thanks, I hate the class that much, that I will never touch one. I'd feel like a hypocrite. And the last part is not true. A medium geared TR with all their stuns, immune, stealth, can easily crit kill from behind while invisible. The only thing that separates them from the uber TR is they go down a bit faster...if you can catch them.
I said before, the average lashing dmg I take is 15-16k. That is still MONSTER dmg from an unseen enemy.
Lol you mean their 1/2 second stun from stealthed impact that brings them out of stealth, or their 1 second daze from shadow strike. I can see where that would get annoying vs. your 7+ second uninterruptable prone juggle. Even 15-16k is high vs. a GF, you must have no more than 2100 defense. My GF has ~2100 running 2 pc timeless 2pc non set and scimi/crusher, I realize that I have low defense and so high crits on me are just something I deal with. Since I have 30k HP a 16k crit from lashing still means I"m going to kill that TR, as once I've started the prone juggle they have no chance to get out of it. Also ItC is currently bugged and works about 1/2 the time vs. prones.
I could understand maybe a DC saying TR is overpowered but for a GF that does just as much burst damage but also has "press shift be immune to everything" and more CC chain than any other class, you're the wrong person to be complaining...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Lol long term stealth which requires the correct spec, the correct gear, meeting required softcaps, 2/3 encounters for stealth generation only, perfect timing, specific passives, and staying away from enemies until the right time as when your stealth is broken you're dead within 2 seconds is nose picking easy.
You are trying to convince me that reading up on forums and making few clicks in feat window is hard work? Err...O.k.... Since when running up to someone from stealth ( who may be engaged) needs perfect timing? So its ok for CW/Dc to be two shotted ( the range argument is luls by default) without advantage of beeing unseen is fair but for TR ( which is not always the case since they can pick in what fight to step in in first place) is foul... Thats natural balance of things, in theory they should give up defence for DPS and damage, which they sometimes dont. TR is by far not the only class that requiesr specific everything.
I have GF and TR. GF is faceroll easy to get top kills/score in PvP. Once I land bull charge or frontline they are dead. TR requires specific everything to be successful and even then it isn't guarenteed if they have a tanky team comp.
...Earth to cribstaxxx, earth to cribstaxxx... We are loosing you, i repeat we are loosing you...Do you copy?
Strange thread, as ive never seen a GF in pvp ever be killed on a single attack..that rogue was probably big $. I wouldn't sweat it dude, as its far to rare to worry about...
AC needs to be hit or miss as in all other D&D games ever created. Fighters using shields should rarely be hit at all. So many complaints almost always lead back to the lack of D&D fundamentals and the ignorance of not utilizing the nearly flawless D20 system.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Strange thread, as ive never seen a GF in pvp ever be killed on a single attack..that rogue was probably big $. I wouldn't sweat it dude, as its far to rare to worry about...
AC needs to be hit or miss as in all other D&D games ever created. Fighters using shields should rarely be hit at all. So many complaints almost always lead back to the lack of D&D fundamentals and the ignorance of not utilizing the nearly flawless D20 system.
I only ask these questions because you seem knowledgeable of D&D games.
Questions:
In the other D&D games can Fighters using shields hit with say 19k of damage?
Are they able to perm stun/prone other players and kill them when using the shield?
Gfs can only be hit from behind when they are using their shield is seems and are even able to block heavy damage moves like shocking execution that was nerfed. It seems the shield even protects GFs from behind on the dragon shard.
*Shrugs out of boredom and goes to play tera* Neverwinter needs more content anyways because their is very little for players lvl 60.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
You are trying to convince me that reading up on forums and making few clicks in feat window is hard work? Err...O.k.... Since when running up to someone from stealth ( who may be engaged) needs perfect timing? So its ok for CW/Dc to be two shotted ( the range argument is luls by default) without advantage of beeing unseen is fair but for TR ( which is not always the case since they can pick in what fight to step in in first place) is foul... Thats natural balance of things, in theory they should give up defence for DPS and damage, which they sometimes dont. TR is by far not the only class that requiesr specific everything.
...Earth to cribstaxxx, earth to cribstaxxx... We are loosing you, i repeat we are loosing you...Do you copy?
That made me laught hard. To be honest think we lost him. Poor guy.
Ok so apparently we are both playing vs. good TR's and with the same classes, but somehow I am doing fine and you are crying for a TR nerf, what does that say about you?
Also I play with the absolute best TR's when we do guild vs guild matches (which is usually every day) and I still have no complaints, as they are obviously going to be strong with best available gear that very few people have.
So what I am hearing is "I am dieing to TR too much b/c I don't know how to counter them, nerf please!"
Not to mention I am telling that almost all other classes have the ability to counter them, from personal experience, and at far from BiS enchants. So you are either full PvE spec and build while expecting to do amazingly well in PvP (lol) or you have no interest in bettering yourself and simply want to see others nerfed so you have an easier time.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Fighters in other D&D games ive played over the years are much more formidable due to the AC mechanic being hit or miss. A powerful fighter class using a shield can attain such an incredible high AC that if properly built takes critical hit rolls just to land a single attack.
As for the damage. That number has never existed.. (19k) this is not a D&D number at all. Serious high lvl dmg in actual D&D is around 50-100. And yes fighters using shields often do the most melee dmg in an average party, its not uncommon at all.
Oddly enough one of the best classes to hit fighters using shields is the rogue/thief classes.
As far as the prone/stun stuff. Yah that all exists. Whats more is they can knock you down repeatedly as cool-downs do not exist. Whats even more is they can disarm there opponent taking there primary weapon...permanently. All the classes in this game are "weak" compared characters in other forms of the game. But D&D shield wielding fighter is a staple of the game. One of the best classes forever simply by default. Fighters, should be the best all around unit in a "fight" yes?
Fighters in other D&D games ive played over the years are much more formidable due to the AC mechanic being hit or miss. A powerful fighter class using a shield can attain such an incredible high AC that if properly built takes critical hit rolls just to land a single attack.
As for the damage. That number has never existed.. (19k) this is not a D&D number at all. Serious high lvl dmg in actual D&D is around 50-100. And yes fighters using shields often do the most melee dmg in an average party, its not uncommon at all.
Oddly enough one of the best classes to hit fighters using shields is the rogue/thief classes.
As far as the prone/stun stuff. Yah that all exists. Whats more is they can knock you down repeatedly as cool-downs do not exist. Whats even more is they can disarm there opponent taking there primary weapon...permanently. All the classes in this game are "weak" compared characters in other forms of the game. But D&D shield wielding fighter is a staple of the game. One of the best classes forever simply by default. Fighters, should be the best all around unit in a "fight" yes?
Interesting read. I get that TR's should be our bane, they are fast and invisible. Decrease the overall crits, increase Dots via poisons, stuns, or bleeds. I would take that over the magic insta kill from nowhere they do now.
Lol you mean their 1/2 second stun from stealthed impact that brings them out of stealth, or their 1 second daze from shadow strike. I can see where that would get annoying vs. your 7+ second uninterruptable prone juggle. Even 15-16k is high vs. a GF, you must have no more than 2100 defense. My GF has ~2100 running 2 pc timeless 2pc non set and scimi/crusher, I realize that I have low defense and so high crits on me are just something I deal with. Since I have 30k HP a 16k crit from lashing still means I"m going to kill that TR, as once I've started the prone juggle they have no chance to get out of it. Also ItC is currently bugged and works about 1/2 the time vs. prones.
I could understand maybe a DC saying TR is overpowered but for a GF that does just as much burst damage but also has "press shift be immune to everything" and more CC chain than any other class, you're the wrong person to be complaining...
My D is 2441. I don't use Frontline or Indomitable Daily, so Bull Charge is my only prone. I use Frontline in PVE for mobs. And I think I am the right person complaining. We are the least played class in PVP, and most GF's in PVP do terrible because they are specced as tanks doing their dailies in PVE gear.
The competitive ones like me have to completely respec in order to compete. That requires real money investment. I am the 1% here, but I am a competitive gamer, so it's just in my nature. I am way more stunned by TR's than GF, but that is probably due to there never being less than 2 TR's on every team.
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Fighters in other D&D games ive played over the years are much more formidable due to the AC mechanic being hit or miss. A powerful fighter class using a shield can attain such an incredible high AC that if properly built takes critical hit rolls just to land a single attack.
As for the damage. That number has never existed.. (19k) this is not a D&D number at all. Serious high lvl dmg in actual D&D is around 50-100. And yes fighters using shields often do the most melee dmg in an average party, its not uncommon at all.
Oddly enough one of the best classes to hit fighters using shields is the rogue/thief classes.
As far as the prone/stun stuff. Yah that all exists. Whats more is they can knock you down repeatedly as cool-downs do not exist. Whats even more is they can disarm there opponent taking there primary weapon...permanently. All the classes in this game are "weak" compared characters in other forms of the game. But D&D shield wielding fighter is a staple of the game. One of the best classes forever simply by default. Fighters, should be the best all around unit in a "fight" yes?
I totally agree with your point expect one thing , wizard'S are the most powerfull dmg class no figther beat wizard mybe specialized like paladin with high resistance or barbarians. AND AFTER wizard Cleric and druid is the second on dps the third rank are figthers last rouge and bard.
I hope if paragon's come out we get our balace ,and i hope they fix this peasant hp
if you make gf same con like 14 and you make cw same con 14 in the end game you will see no difference in hp bar.
Ok so apparently we are both playing vs. good TR's and with the same classes, but somehow I am doing fine and you are crying for a TR nerf, what does that say about you?
Also I play with the absolute best TR's when we do guild vs guild matches (which is usually every day) and I still have no complaints, as they are obviously going to be strong with best available gear that very few people have.
So what I am hearing is "I am dieing to TR too much b/c I don't know how to counter them, nerf please!"
Not to mention I am telling that almost all other classes have the ability to counter them, from personal experience, and at far from BiS enchants. So you are either full PvE spec and build while expecting to do amazingly well in PvP (lol) or you have no interest in bettering yourself and simply want to see others nerfed so you have an easier time.
While i might admit im not an avid PvPer like you seem to be, but i played enough matches / games with PvP to know an unfair advantage when i see one. And stealth as it is now is an unfair advantage. You performing well dose not say anything, since it heavily depends on team as a whole, and i can hold my own thank you very much. Dieng too much to TR is not an argument since TR is the the most common class in PvP.
Other classes do not have a reliable way to uncloack a TR besides daily... This argument is ower, since it leads no where. Have a good day.
Interesting read. I get that TR's should be our bane, they are fast and invisible. Decrease the overall crits, increase Dots via poisons, stuns, or bleeds. I would take that over the magic insta kill from nowhere they do now.
In defense of the rogue even in real forms of D&D a power build can do some insane dmg with there sneak attacks. And could one shot kill a fighter of a lower lvl, as they can remove some of the AC buffs fighters gain, such a dodge bonuses. However if they dont and the fighter actually engages the rogue. The chance of survival for the rogue at that point is almost zilch. A fighter one shotting a rogue in actual D&D is far more common. Though its almost always on a critical hit.
I totally agree with your point expect one thing , wizard'S are the most powerfull dmg class no figther beat wizard mybe specialized like paladin with high resistance or barbarians. AND AFTER wizard Cleric and druid is the second on dps the third rank are figthers last rouge and bard.
I hope if paragon's come out we get our balace ,and i hope they fix this peasant hp
if you make gf same con like 14 and you make cw same con 14 in the end game you will see no difference in hp bar.
Agreed. Strictly referencing melee dmge. When you involve spells yah, mages hands down. But as far as melee dmg. No class should be doing more of it then fighters.
Indeed. Fighter HP in this game is ridiculous. They should have 3 times that of a rogue and 4 times that of a mage. Its laughable. They've completely ruined any fundamental concepts of D&D.
Agreed. Strictly referencing melee dmge. When you involve spells yah, mages hands down. But as far as melee dmg. No class should be doing more of it then fighters.
Indeed. Fighter HP in this game is ridiculous. They should have 3 times that of a rogue and 4 times that of a mage. Its laughable. They've completely ruined any fundamental concepts of D&D.
And to get any sort of power, we need to abandon all thoughts of being a tank, and spec for pure DPS just to do comparable damage to TR, CW (in PVP).
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited September 2013
As i sayd before (many post's)i hope some moderator or game desinger read this forum (all post's)
neverwinter must go beack to core dnd . And
1. re think classes HP is total not class based no diference in any class
tr need more hp clerc too GF and GWF need much more and cw much less.
2. DMG CW and cleric need much more dmg ,GWF need more love and need top close combat dmg aslo GFneed more dmg to avoid the conqueror feat bee more tank class TRneed less dmg (not too much ,dont make it unplayable) but if you fix hp this will be not need any more also i think if a good ruge suprize cw can let him kill with 1 skill ,but not tank class and any close combat class not even tr!
My D is 2441. I don't use Frontline or Indomitable Daily, so Bull Charge is my only prone. I use Frontline in PVE for mobs. And I think I am the right person complaining. We are the least played class in PVP, and most GF's in PVP do terrible because they are specced as tanks doing their dailies in PVE gear.
The competitive ones like me have to completely respec in order to compete. That requires real money investment. I am the 1% here, but I am a competitive gamer, so it's just in my nature. I am way more stunned by TR's than GF, but that is probably due to there never being less than 2 TR's on every team.
Frontline is so useful for finding stealthed TR's, also you can have 2 daily's up what other daily is so awesome that you can't use indomitable? I would like to know your loadout, as I think a few tweaks for PvP would help you a lot. Also your HP, I have little defense but I put radiants in all my defense slots so I have ~30k hp.
@ trolj: DC's have sunburst and many other ground target things, GF's have frontline and once the TR gets close locking them down with prone's is childs play, CW's have multiple great spells I will list in a sec as it is mostly CW's that complain and mine does just fine vs TR"s, GWF's have slam and pretty much just don't care about TR's as they are way too tanky to be hurt by them.
CW's chill strike does not destealth them but once they are hit with it you can see them even though they're stealthed for about 4-5 seconds. CoI and RoE dot them up and make their stealth deplete in a matter of 1-2 seconds at most. If you really hate TR's shield reduces their lashing by a ton, and can be popped to break their stealth, icy terrain and steal time also break stealth easily, and yes the daze daily can work wonders as well, killed so many TR with that.
If you don't PvP often then chances are you don't have a PvP build and you probably use a stone for ~75% of your ArP. Just by speccing and building for PvP you will see a 100% increase in your effectiveness. You can't fight a full PvP TR with amazing gear in your PvE set and spec and expect to do well.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Comments
You are one of the TR fan boys holding on to the lie that TR is balanced. Why? Possibly since you mostley play your TR or that you play your TR wrong.
Denying the fact that TR is OP shows how little you know.
Look at the videos I posted and see that the TR is OP. If you don't agree it is time for reality check.
Saying you do well with all classes doesn't say anything to me. Post a video or don't say it!
I mostly play my CW and I decimate TR's that don't have P. Vorpal, Gtene's, and very high HP, which make up 1-2% of TR's. My GWF destroys TR"s, my GF destroys TR's, my cleric laughs when prophetic action negates TR's LB completely haha. My TR does ok but he has no burst, sustained damage + regen, I don't even slot Lashing blade.
Edit: I know exactly how OP they can be, as I have the best TR's on server in my guild. But to be strong they need a ~40 mil investment. You simply can't nerf an entire class b/c of the top 1% of that class' players.
The reason that so many people defend the TR is that they have no where near the success rate that all the people bashing TR's are talking about, b/c they are all talking about the handful of TR's that can actually kill most classes easily. Also a ~40 mil GF or GWF stomps on a similar geared TR most of the time.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Name calling already.... Abacuser all someone has to do is look up your thread that complains about TRs to see you have no creditability. *shakes his head* You simply want to nerf TRs for your own gain and not because they are unbalanced. The video you posted in your own thread shows it.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
lol single player content up to lvl 60 is pick in the nose easy, done it three times. In multi player dungeons Tr do not need stealth, sure its a nifty tool to have but nothing more. They still have dodge. GF for his block gave up dodge and speed making it the slowest class by far and it takes skill to master propper block. So try again with TRs and stealth argument in PvE but with more passion this time. Im not demanding for stealth to be gone permanently but it needs to be toned down, it has too many things going for it. For a tool that i repeat essentially lets you PICK opponents ( other classes cant do that) it needs to be balanced with some debufs so it will not be the way it is now, broken as intented. The subject is stealth and damage from it in general. P.S. in case you missed last patch nerf bat was swung generously. And you seem to have selective reading on top of it i will repeat, i do not care if TRs non stealth abilities get a boost to compensate.
well, a TR to have enough arpen to bust through your armor like that would need (just my opinion, players are free to fix this) at least:
7 Dark enchants rank 8 (500k+ AD each of them on the cheapest), totalizing 3,5m at least just on enchants.
And likelly the pvp t2 GG set (but this one they can just farm on GG with 0 cost, but we can research on AH for the value of each piece if you want)
so you see, just his enchants are already a bigger investiment than your 2m armor, so i believe its fair to say that if you want your 2m investiment to be worth it, so will the TRs want their 3,5m investiment to be.
And IF a TR intends on gvorpal, or pvorpal, you can add another 5-10m to that investiment.
Lol long term stealth which requires the correct spec, the correct gear, meeting required softcaps, 2/3 encounters for stealth generation only, perfect timing, specific passives, and staying away from enemies until the right time as when your stealth is broken you're dead within 2 seconds is nose picking easy.
However pressing shift when you see an encounter being cast, that's where the real skill comes in...
I have GF and TR. GF is faceroll easy to get top kills/score in PvP. Once I land bull charge or frontline they are dead. TR requires specific everything to be successful and even then it isn't guarenteed if they have a tanky team comp.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
For further information check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
So you suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect. Thank you for making that clear. That explains why you are so biased against TRs and want them nerfed for your own gain. You play as a good CW abacuser and your own video shows this to be true. You are only lowering yourself wanting nerfs because sometimes TRs kill you in pvp. This basically means you want nerfs for your own gain and not because class is unbalanced. *shakes his head*
Abacuser's video of him playing: http://youtu.be/9uat_Qdb23c
TR vs Abacuser:
1. Abacuser was at approximately 65% health when the first CoS daggers hit
2. Abacuser actually dodged the Shadow Strike so he didn't get dazed
3. Abacuser summoned his bowling ball the Rogue pops lurkers (you can hear it as the ball lands) and the Rogue briefly appears in front of him so this was taken post patch (mistake by the rogue)
4. Abacuser dodged the first impact shot, second lands and doesn't break stealth coz of lurkers but lurkers expires shortly after hence bait and switch
5. Couple more hits with CoS and finish with third Impact Shot to kill Abacuser.
So the rogue was forced to pretty well blow everything to kill a half-dead CW. It would be different if the TR killed Abacuser in one or two hits.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Extend your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and land please!
Did you even read the description of the video you linked? TR from Lemonade Stand (arguably the best PvP guild on all of NW) with Perfect terror and no doubt BiS everything including Gtene's.
So you have a video from one of the best TR's in the entire game killing people and therefore you want to nerf TR.
By your logic we should increase the speed limit to 150 MPH as the best nascar drivers have no problem driving at that speed.
Or make Theoretical Physics a requirement for Gen. Ed. degree since Stephen Hawking finds it so easy.
Yes I find it easy to kill "normal" TR's. My TR has BiS armor and rank 7 enchants but certainly no Tene's and no P weapon enchant, I couldn't come close to the guy in that video, but you want to nerf my and pretty much 98% of other TR's b/c of that one guy? Let me give you a hint, even if you did get the nerf, the people in lemonade stand will still destroy you every time without fail. All it will do is make all the regular TR's suck.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Yep, a decent TR can sometimes pick me up with below 50% healt and one shot me. (and only if I am bored from pug and not paying attention)
In general TR's are not a threat if you understand how they are played. Also playing with your team as a team helps more then well.
The NWN PVP is not a 1on1 fest , it's a team game
The main purpose of this thread was the heavy damage done by TRs and joncans's armor not blocking it complete. You want to change it to stealth not working as intended. You want the damage done by TRs to be boosted as long as the stealth ability is nerfed. So that means the TRs would be doing more damage that would be getting through joncan's armor.
The nerf bat was swung generously against TRs only in your opinion while GFs hardly got any nerf. The main thing nerfed was TR's ability to do damage. Trs are meant to be a heavy damage dealing class with low defense. So yeah, reverse the nerfs below and nerf stealth in the name of balance. Maybe even make the bonuses given to the TR's powers by stealth constant and nerf stealth will work as well instead of reversing the nerfs below. Block is a core mechanic of GFs and Stealth is a core part of TRs. I also note how you mention single player content and do not mention the five player dungeons. Try again with your argument that stealth has no utilization in PVE.
Daily:
1. Shocking execution does not 1 hit kill people and was nerfed in the first balancing patch NW.3.20130529d.6. "Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%."
2. Lurker's Assault was nerfed from 60% damage bonus to 25% in the latest "balancing" patch NW.5.20130812b.8.
At wills:
1. A TR is not immune when using Duelist's flurry. Sometimes the TR is moved along with a player while using Duelist's Flurry. The bleed stack was capped or nerfed at a stack of 10 instead of being infinite in the current "balancing" patch. NW.5.20130812b.8
2. Cloud of steel was nerfed from 12 daggers to 8 in the latest "balancing" update.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
No thanks, I hate the class that much, that I will never touch one. I'd feel like a hypocrite. And the last part is not true. A medium geared TR with all their stuns, immune, stealth, can easily crit kill from behind while invisible. The only thing that separates them from the uber TR is they go down a bit faster...if you can catch them.
I said before, the average lashing dmg I take is 15-16k. That is still MONSTER dmg from an unseen enemy.
Could not agree more and check out the video of abacuser fighting in pvp he posted. All the players in Lemonade Stand, not just the TRs, are probably the best players in pvp because of their gear and skills.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Really no reason to hate, everyone should love! The world would be a much better place if everyone stopped hating and stopped being biased against this or that. *Hugs Joncans* :cool:
note: This post is meant to be humorous. :cool:
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Lol you mean their 1/2 second stun from stealthed impact that brings them out of stealth, or their 1 second daze from shadow strike. I can see where that would get annoying vs. your 7+ second uninterruptable prone juggle. Even 15-16k is high vs. a GF, you must have no more than 2100 defense. My GF has ~2100 running 2 pc timeless 2pc non set and scimi/crusher, I realize that I have low defense and so high crits on me are just something I deal with. Since I have 30k HP a 16k crit from lashing still means I"m going to kill that TR, as once I've started the prone juggle they have no chance to get out of it. Also ItC is currently bugged and works about 1/2 the time vs. prones.
I could understand maybe a DC saying TR is overpowered but for a GF that does just as much burst damage but also has "press shift be immune to everything" and more CC chain than any other class, you're the wrong person to be complaining...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You are trying to convince me that reading up on forums and making few clicks in feat window is hard work? Err...O.k.... Since when running up to someone from stealth ( who may be engaged) needs perfect timing? So its ok for CW/Dc to be two shotted ( the range argument is luls by default) without advantage of beeing unseen is fair but for TR ( which is not always the case since they can pick in what fight to step in in first place) is foul... Thats natural balance of things, in theory they should give up defence for DPS and damage, which they sometimes dont. TR is by far not the only class that requiesr specific everything.
...Earth to cribstaxxx, earth to cribstaxxx... We are loosing you, i repeat we are loosing you...Do you copy?
That made me laught hard. To be honest think we lost him. Poor guy.
AC needs to be hit or miss as in all other D&D games ever created. Fighters using shields should rarely be hit at all. So many complaints almost always lead back to the lack of D&D fundamentals and the ignorance of not utilizing the nearly flawless D20 system.
I only ask these questions because you seem knowledgeable of D&D games.
Questions:
In the other D&D games can Fighters using shields hit with say 19k of damage?
Are they able to perm stun/prone other players and kill them when using the shield?
Gfs can only be hit from behind when they are using their shield is seems and are even able to block heavy damage moves like shocking execution that was nerfed. It seems the shield even protects GFs from behind on the dragon shard.
*Shrugs out of boredom and goes to play tera* Neverwinter needs more content anyways because their is very little for players lvl 60.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Ok so apparently we are both playing vs. good TR's and with the same classes, but somehow I am doing fine and you are crying for a TR nerf, what does that say about you?
Also I play with the absolute best TR's when we do guild vs guild matches (which is usually every day) and I still have no complaints, as they are obviously going to be strong with best available gear that very few people have.
So what I am hearing is "I am dieing to TR too much b/c I don't know how to counter them, nerf please!"
Not to mention I am telling that almost all other classes have the ability to counter them, from personal experience, and at far from BiS enchants. So you are either full PvE spec and build while expecting to do amazingly well in PvP (lol) or you have no interest in bettering yourself and simply want to see others nerfed so you have an easier time.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
As for the damage. That number has never existed.. (19k) this is not a D&D number at all. Serious high lvl dmg in actual D&D is around 50-100. And yes fighters using shields often do the most melee dmg in an average party, its not uncommon at all.
Oddly enough one of the best classes to hit fighters using shields is the rogue/thief classes.
As far as the prone/stun stuff. Yah that all exists. Whats more is they can knock you down repeatedly as cool-downs do not exist. Whats even more is they can disarm there opponent taking there primary weapon...permanently. All the classes in this game are "weak" compared characters in other forms of the game. But D&D shield wielding fighter is a staple of the game. One of the best classes forever simply by default. Fighters, should be the best all around unit in a "fight" yes?
Interesting read. I get that TR's should be our bane, they are fast and invisible. Decrease the overall crits, increase Dots via poisons, stuns, or bleeds. I would take that over the magic insta kill from nowhere they do now.
My D is 2441. I don't use Frontline or Indomitable Daily, so Bull Charge is my only prone. I use Frontline in PVE for mobs. And I think I am the right person complaining. We are the least played class in PVP, and most GF's in PVP do terrible because they are specced as tanks doing their dailies in PVE gear.
The competitive ones like me have to completely respec in order to compete. That requires real money investment. I am the 1% here, but I am a competitive gamer, so it's just in my nature. I am way more stunned by TR's than GF, but that is probably due to there never being less than 2 TR's on every team.
I totally agree with your point expect one thing , wizard'S are the most powerfull dmg class no figther beat wizard mybe specialized like paladin with high resistance or barbarians. AND AFTER wizard Cleric and druid is the second on dps the third rank are figthers last rouge and bard.
I hope if paragon's come out we get our balace ,and i hope they fix this peasant hp
if you make gf same con like 14 and you make cw same con 14 in the end game you will see no difference in hp bar.
While i might admit im not an avid PvPer like you seem to be, but i played enough matches / games with PvP to know an unfair advantage when i see one. And stealth as it is now is an unfair advantage. You performing well dose not say anything, since it heavily depends on team as a whole, and i can hold my own thank you very much. Dieng too much to TR is not an argument since TR is the the most common class in PvP.
Other classes do not have a reliable way to uncloack a TR besides daily... This argument is ower, since it leads no where. Have a good day.
In defense of the rogue even in real forms of D&D a power build can do some insane dmg with there sneak attacks. And could one shot kill a fighter of a lower lvl, as they can remove some of the AC buffs fighters gain, such a dodge bonuses. However if they dont and the fighter actually engages the rogue. The chance of survival for the rogue at that point is almost zilch. A fighter one shotting a rogue in actual D&D is far more common. Though its almost always on a critical hit.
Agreed. Strictly referencing melee dmge. When you involve spells yah, mages hands down. But as far as melee dmg. No class should be doing more of it then fighters.
Indeed. Fighter HP in this game is ridiculous. They should have 3 times that of a rogue and 4 times that of a mage. Its laughable. They've completely ruined any fundamental concepts of D&D.
And to get any sort of power, we need to abandon all thoughts of being a tank, and spec for pure DPS just to do comparable damage to TR, CW (in PVP).
neverwinter must go beack to core dnd . And
1. re think classes HP is total not class based no diference in any class
tr need more hp clerc too GF and GWF need much more and cw much less.
2. DMG CW and cleric need much more dmg ,GWF need more love and need top close combat dmg aslo GFneed more dmg to avoid the conqueror feat bee more tank class TRneed less dmg (not too much ,dont make it unplayable) but if you fix hp this will be not need any more also i think if a good ruge suprize cw can let him kill with 1 skill ,but not tank class and any close combat class not even tr!
Frontline is so useful for finding stealthed TR's, also you can have 2 daily's up what other daily is so awesome that you can't use indomitable? I would like to know your loadout, as I think a few tweaks for PvP would help you a lot. Also your HP, I have little defense but I put radiants in all my defense slots so I have ~30k hp.
@ trolj: DC's have sunburst and many other ground target things, GF's have frontline and once the TR gets close locking them down with prone's is childs play, CW's have multiple great spells I will list in a sec as it is mostly CW's that complain and mine does just fine vs TR"s, GWF's have slam and pretty much just don't care about TR's as they are way too tanky to be hurt by them.
CW's chill strike does not destealth them but once they are hit with it you can see them even though they're stealthed for about 4-5 seconds. CoI and RoE dot them up and make their stealth deplete in a matter of 1-2 seconds at most. If you really hate TR's shield reduces their lashing by a ton, and can be popped to break their stealth, icy terrain and steal time also break stealth easily, and yes the daze daily can work wonders as well, killed so many TR with that.
If you don't PvP often then chances are you don't have a PvP build and you probably use a stone for ~75% of your ArP. Just by speccing and building for PvP you will see a 100% increase in your effectiveness. You can't fight a full PvP TR with amazing gear in your PvE set and spec and expect to do well.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.