Synergy between Clerics and everyone else

suckatash1 · August 2013

My cleric is level 25 and I PvP often. I've noticed that my healing doesn't really matter to the match. It seems that pure dps is king. Does the synergy between healing and dps work better by level 60 PvP? In short, will my healing every really make a difference in a PvP outcome?

tancred300 · August 2013

For the most part it only matters how long you can stay alife as cleric when they focus you, nothing more.

Only exception is when you are 60 and have really good and defensive gear and play with a decent premade or similar.
Then it does matter.

gexenn · August 2013

pvp with a pug on lvl 60 DC makes you pretty much an easy kill. Everybody goes for you first and you do not really have any nuke power to take them down before you die... thank devs for the recent nerfs

.

oroness · August 2013

If you really want to have fun in this game i'd advise you to reroll and choose another class.
Playing a cleric all you'll get is frustration and probably anger/outrage due to the continuous and unnecessary nerfs the class suffers.

chipster · August 2013

To OP,

Cleric shine with premade, but pretty lousy in pug games. Everyone know that once the cleric goes down, the rest stands no chance. You're still 25 (low bracket PvP), come to 60 and you know it worthy to level.

donpepedevega · August 2013

.. I have 5 PG, one for every class... all PG is 60th except the Moon Elf GF that I'm levelling..
.. and I use ONLY the Devoted Cleric one..

.. I like my DC, I love my DC... I think it's the funniest class to play, and the more difficult to understand too..

xunxan · August 2013

suckatash1 wrote: »

Does the synergy between healing and dps work better by level 60 PvP?

No, in fact, you are very nearly as strong as you will ever be in PvP right now. It goes down hill very quickly after around lvl 30.

suckatash1 wrote: »

In short, will my healing every really make a difference in a PvP outcome?

Yes. It really helps out the other team to have you in the match.

ulviel · August 2013

Same here, I love my DC... If I cant play DC, I dont play at all... but this class seems to me most hated by Cryptic. Really, every patch new nerf, as if <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> feats, terrible aggro, and Righteousness were not enough. And pvp? I'd like to do more pvp, but i dont like pain, so I only do it for daily if I really need extra AD.
Hammer of Fail and Flame Strike bug (I still hope it is a bug and not intended) left me with no daily, btw.

tang56 · August 2013

ulviel wrote: »

Same here, I love my DC... If I cant play DC, I dont play at all... but this class seems to me most hated by Cryptic. Really, every patch new nerf, as if <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> feats, terrible aggro, and Righteousness were not enough. And pvp? I'd like to do more pvp, but i dont like pain, so I only do it for daily if I really need extra AD.
Hammer of Fail and Flame Strike bug (I still hope it is a bug and not intended) left me with no daily, btw.

I'd say you're behind the GWF in terms of developer hate.

hidahayabusa · August 2013

Just like all healer classes in every game, Cleric tends to get focused a lot. That said, as an answer to your initial post I will answer that the Cleric does make a difference if you manage to avoid or tank the initial focus. This is difficult in PuGS (as everything else), but not impossible especially against other PUGs, but it's worth it.

In a nutshell, if you like healing in PvP:
a) You should learn how to position yourself in order to avoid the initial rush (i.e. don't just charge in the middle)
b) You should stick to it, regardless of the random one-shots from those TRs and GFs (peope need to show their hardly bought gear, and there's nothing wrong with it). Everyone gets one-shotted, so don't worry.
c) Learn how to heal, when to heal, when to kite and when to run away. It's an interesting class and you'll enjoy it.

You are not the biggest fish, but you can affect the outcome of matches.

have fun.

morsitans · August 2013

tang56 wrote: »

I'd say you're behind the GWF in terms of developer hate.

Dunno, GWFs don't really have a role in PvE, but can at least clean house in PvP (what with con/tene stacking and stuff). DCs have a terrible time in PvP, and frequently a pretty terrible time in PvE. Aggro magnets with a self-heal debuff! Woo!

We can just make everyone elses lives easier in PvE, which is why we're so popular.
4.25+ million HP healed (which seems to be fairly routine for a T2 pug) is 500 HP pots saved, and that's not even counting mitigation.

suckatash1 · August 2013

One of the biggest changes that I've noticed between 10-19 and 20-29 PvP Deathmatches, is that I'm no longer the primary target. This is why I feared that the effect of healing on match results wasn't being effected by healing. By the level 20-29 matches, no one ever asked me for a heal. It's like it's every man for him/her self. Looks like I'll need to find an active PvP guild. I don't want to wait until level 60 to start working on pre-made techniques/skills.

dkcandy · August 2013

suckatash1 wrote: »

My cleric is level 25

Stop right there and go back to game and finished getting to 60. Then after a week of playing if you still have questions ask guild mates or forums.

morsitans · August 2013

I don't want to wait until level 60 to start working on pre-made techniques/skills.

Game changes hugely at 60, though. You're never going to encounter full BiS geared tene-stacking dudes until then, plus since once you hit 60 you can't go anywhere, a lot of the peeps in lvl 60 pvp have been playing for a loooong time, whereas most of the peeps you'll fight on the way up to 60 are..well, on their way up to 60.*

*maybe a few twinks, admittedly

faeriestorm · August 2013

morsitans wrote: »

Dunno, GWFs don't really have a role in PvE, but can at least clean house in PvP (what with con/tene stacking and stuff). DCs have a terrible time in PvP, and frequently a pretty terrible time in PvE. Aggro magnets with a self-heal debuff! Woo!

We can just make everyone elses lives easier in PvE, which is why we're so popular.
4.25+ million HP healed (which seems to be fairly routine for a T2 pug) is 500 HP pots saved, and that's not even counting mitigation.

Correction that is why healbots are so popular. However if you play a cleric and not a healbot then you are not so popular. With gold being easier to get now, the cost of saving hp pots is not not so relevant. Clerics on the other hand are not so popular, yes you will get some healing but they will be dealing alot of damage or using damage mitigation skills or debuffing or buffing or some combination of those things.

Cleric =/= healbot

What you are describing is a healbot and not a cleric!

whistlingdixie · August 2013

chipster wrote: »

To OP,

Cleric shine with premade, but pretty lousy in pug games. Everyone know that once the cleric goes down, the rest stands no chance. You're still 25 (low bracket PvP), come to 60 and you know it worthy to level.

Translation:

Clerics are pretty lousy unless you have a good team to carry you.

drscone · August 2013

whistlingdixie wrote: »

Translation:

Clerics are pretty lousy unless you have a good team to carry you.

But a good cleric can turn a pretty average team into winners.

chipster · August 2013

whistlingdixie wrote: »

Translation:

Clerics are pretty lousy unless you have a good team to carry you.

You had misunderstood my point. Cleric can truly shine or I would say, gamewinner if they are played right. Why i would say "pretty lousy in pug games" ; pug usually had low defence/hp to withstand damage, no matter how great your heal is, you can't keep them alive as you want to. With a good team, cleric became a formidable and precious team mate to have.

ulviel · August 2013

Really, really? Before all those nerfs and ninja-nerfs maybe.

vorphied · August 2013

The challenge of making your DC relevant in PvP is being sufficiently skilled and geared so that the enemy is forced to focus you with 2 or more of their strongest damage-dealers to bring you down. Unless you are chain-proned in a corner (wtb diminishing returns on chain CC, thx), it can take 3-5 people to kill you depending on the difference in skill and gear level. Obviously also depending on how well your team supports YOU.

However, if the DC's player is not actually supporting allies well enough, the other team can just ignore him/her and kill everyone else first. IMO DC takes more gear and overall skill to play effectively because you can't sustain burst healing, can't break CC, and can't deal respectable damage without throwing most of your survivability out the window. I hope for an end to nerfs and a few buffs to increase the viability of different playstyles for DC.

ulviel · August 2013

Blah blah, so with some effort/money you can make a cleric that is not a free kill in pvp... Yet. only that any other class need much less effort/money to be just as efficient. I could care less about pvp, really, I prefer pve anyway, but its not the point. The point is, we are consecutively nerfed, more than other classes, with no reason, no explanation, no sense at all... At least when TR was nerfed, I knew it was because of complains that they are too op etc. But nerfing DC? Did anybody ever said (not joking) that they are too strong or something? Unless it is a plan to destroy the class. We can still be of use in a team, but if this will continue, I dont know how much longer.

modimor · August 2013

I've rerolled a low lvl cleric (I allready have a 60) a while back and it's pretty challenging to heal in the lower lvls. What worked for me was a Divinity hog, but very playble. Always use Healing Word in divinity mode (if you can) and after you cast it start Channeling your devine heal and move towards whatever you're trying to heal while channeling. Once you're close enough cast Sunburst to get an extra heal spike and hopefully you hit 3-4 players to build up your Divinity, Phase out to a better position. In case they don't really try to focus any specific player, just trow some healing words out of Divinity around Phase in and out and Cast Sunburst. These heals won't burst heal very well. But it keeps people from dying. Look at it more like dmg mitigration then actuall heals.

xiphenon · August 2013

drscone wrote: »

But a good cleric can turn a pretty average team into winners.

Yes, and for this "sacrify" he get awarded usually with the least points. Often, I lead my team to a win and get less points then the lowest score on the looser team. Thank you very much ...

suckatash1 · August 2013

My next question is this: How often would I end up in a premade? Do PvP oriented guilds exist in the game? I'm totally fine being the lowest score on PvP chart - I just want to have enough healing to make a difference to my team winning. I agree with everyone who talked about Pugs. I can't heal a Pug if I tried - those players typically run away from to go cap or kill.

suckatash1 · August 2013

xiphenon wrote: »

Yes, and for this "sacrify" he get awarded usually with the least points. Often, I lead my team to a win and get less points then the lowest score on the looser team. Thank you very much ...

It would be nice if Neverwinter did something similar to what Warhammer did. They started awarding points for healing in scenarios. If my heals keep someone alive so that they can kill or cap, I should be rewarded for that as a healer.

nallif · August 2013

I play a cleric, and I pvp. I have lots of fun because I am geared for it (about half blues for regen, hit points, deflection, and defense). Last night, some of my pvp mates had zero deaths because I kept healing them while they killed the other team; we did very well.

The healer makes a big difference when he is geared to tank the other team while his teammates kill the other team. After a while, the other teams stopped focusing me because they knew they couldn't kill me. With my healing, they couldn't kill my teammates, either.

xiphenon · August 2013

nallif wrote: »

I play a cleric, and I pvp. I have lots of fun because I am geared for it (about half blues for regen, hit points, deflection, and defense). Last night, some of my pvp mates had zero deaths because I kept healing them while they killed the other team; we did very well.

The healer makes a big difference when he is geared to tank the other team while his teammates kill the other team. After a while, the other teams stopped focusing me because they knew they couldn't kill me. With my healing, they couldn't kill my teammates, either.

Any team know how bring you down even with you equip. Simple. CW and GF will perma CC you, Rogue and GF will debuff your armor resistance, and GWF/GF with Tenebrous and Rogue burst will kill you. In a skilled team, I would think this takes around 3 seconds.

gokkens · August 2013

suckatash1 wrote: »

My cleric is level 25 and I PvP often. I've noticed that my healing doesn't really matter to the match. It seems that pure dps is king. Does the synergy between healing and dps work better by level 60 PvP? In short, will my healing every really make a difference in a PvP outcome?

It will make you loose, I can only stress this enough! Healing is 100% pointless specially after Forgemaster nerf! it does nothing! you get less points than everyone els because healing is not rewarded! on top of that a healing word heals 800-1000 an a normal encounter hits you for 10-15k! Do not heal! the best PVP healers are sentinel GWF! I have close to 11000 Gs and gear does not help!

people will say you can carry a team wrong! a good team can carry you!

Clerics need way more effort time and support than any other class to shine! and the reward is nothing compared to the other classes! getting maximum points and items for winning!

if you wan't to heal in this game in pvp go for a sentinel GWF

ulviel · August 2013

Actually, after seeing Malabog's castel I dont think healing in pve has any sense too.

vorphied · August 2013

gokkens wrote: »

It will make you loose, I can only stress this enough! Healing is 100% pointless specially after Forgemaster nerf! it does nothing! you get less points than everyone els because healing is not rewarded! on top of that a healing word heals 800-1000 an a normal encounter hits you for 10-15k! Do not heal! the best PVP healers are sentinel GWF! I have close to 11000 Gs and gear does not help!

people will say you can carry a team wrong! a good team can carry you!

Clerics need way more effort time and support than any other class to shine! and the reward is nothing compared to the other classes! getting maximum points and items for winning!

if you wan't to heal in this game in pvp go for a sentinel GWF

Healing is far from pointless. I've had Divine Healing Words crit for 7k instant healing on top of the regeneration effect. Not to mention Foresight etc.

DCs are in many ways the low class on the totem pole, but let's not be too terribly dramatic. Our heals would probably be fine if we weren't so easy to CC to death, actually.

vorphied · August 2013

ulviel wrote: »

Blah blah, so with some effort/money you can make a cleric that is not a free kill in pvp... Yet. only that any other class need much less effort/money to be just as efficient. I could care less about pvp, really, I prefer pve anyway, but its not the point. The point is, we are consecutively nerfed, more than other classes, with no reason, no explanation, no sense at all... At least when TR was nerfed, I knew it was because of complains that they are too op etc. But nerfing DC? Did anybody ever said (not joking) that they are too strong or something? Unless it is a plan to destroy the class. We can still be of use in a team, but if this will continue, I dont know how much longer.

PvE probably isn't the most compelling reason to oppose DC nerfs; DCs do fine in PvE but are somewhat pigeonholed in group play. It's PvP where the class really shows its weaknesses and suffers more from nerfs to either its healing or damage-dealing capabilities.

Synergy between Clerics and everyone else

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