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Stalwart Bulwark nerf is a huge problem
pyratbacon
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 3 Arc User
The problem with this change is not the nerf itself. The set bonus was far too powerful and allowed GFs to be on the top of all of the boards in every dungeon. Therefore the decrease in power of this set bonus is understandable and reasonable. However there was no waring given prior to the patch that this change would happen allowing players to get any alternate sets. Moreover many players including, myself, have invested in enchantments, dyes, and possibly transmutes, into their desired set. The intention of the developers to allow players to better express themselves has been widely embraced by many. After today, however, I am skeptical that I would do likewise in the future, knowing that at a moments notice all of the time, in game resources, and possibly real money, will be nullified.
I would like to restate that i understand the need for game balancing, but these changes effectively punish and exploit the player for the lack of foresight on behalf of the developer. Some of these problems seem very difficult to fix however, at the very least, any enchantments on this set should be able to be unbound once at no expense.
To any unmoved players, those whom do not have a GF or do not have the set, I would say that just because this has not happened to you does not mean it could not in the future. This change undermines the core principles of acquiring almost all items in game because, rather than simply re-balancing the item, it was effectively changed completely.
To the developers I would implore you to take these complaints seriously under the belief that you would not wish to alienate the people whom are your greatest defenders and advocates and otherwise love the game you have made.
I would like to restate that i understand the need for game balancing, but these changes effectively punish and exploit the player for the lack of foresight on behalf of the developer. Some of these problems seem very difficult to fix however, at the very least, any enchantments on this set should be able to be unbound once at no expense.
To any unmoved players, those whom do not have a GF or do not have the set, I would say that just because this has not happened to you does not mean it could not in the future. This change undermines the core principles of acquiring almost all items in game because, rather than simply re-balancing the item, it was effectively changed completely.
To the developers I would implore you to take these complaints seriously under the belief that you would not wish to alienate the people whom are your greatest defenders and advocates and otherwise love the game you have made.
Post edited by pyratbacon on
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The interesting thing is the DEVs listened to TRs & GWFs about their disapproval and responded but ignore the GF's disapproval. This leads many players to believe the reason for the "rework" is to line their pockets with Zen purchases to unsocket enchants and purchase of new gear.
GF disapproval is a large portion of the population, but not all 100% of GF's are affected by the nerf. Only those who use Stalwart's, and only those naive enough to believe that Stalwart would never be nerfed for being overpowered. That set was too good to be true, and too bad for everyone who didn't recognize that. Everyone who bought in on it has benefited from it for months. That's the cost of min/maxing with overpowered, soon-to-be-nerfed gear.
Getting a new set shouldn't be hard. Stalwart cost half as much as other sets, and they had no reason to upgrade, so they should have some cash lying around to spend on new sets or they could.. ohh I dunno... run the dungeons for it since you get to pick your set drop in dungeons in the new Module 1 expansion.
The crying is from those who socketed their OP set with enchants, those who think it's unreasonable to nerf an OP set, and those who think they are entitled to some form of compensation. You aren't. Your compensation was having 7k extra power for nothing and higher defensive stats for the last 4 months than Tier 2 sets. You've already been compensated. Stop with these whine threads.
There are even a few people who used it unslotted during PvE solely because they knew it'll be nerfed one day.
Characters:
Ellamae - Level 60 CW (12.1k T2 Geared)
Norros - Level 60 TR (12.1k T2 Geared)
Keira - Level 60 GF (13.2k T2 Geared)
Mialee - Level 60 DC (12.2k T2 Geared)
Thoradin - Level 60 GWF (12.8k T2 Geared)
Um... who would think stal would not be nerfed? Of course it was going to be nerfed on Mod 1 but "Reworked" is unexpected. Nerfed would be changing the power gain from 5% to 1-2% per stack or something along those lines.
This is a completely new set with the same name. It would be no different if they took Timeless and change the bonus to give 15% more Guard Meter. Worthless set bonus for the set and completely breaking builds players have around the set bonus.
The new stalwart bonus is still an offensive gain of damage (read: power), but less than the original offensive damage gain. Stalwart GF's are still gaining offensive damage for being hit; it's still the same mechanic. You just aren't getting as much.
Also, building your build around singular, overpowered set bonus that provides 7k power, that you agree in the post above was obviously going to be nerfed... you get no sympathy from me. You just stated it was obvious to yourself. "Of course it was going to be nerfed" If you build your character around an overpowered set bonus in order to be overpowered, don't come crying on the forums when your build is broken when they balance the set out. It was evidently already obvious to you that this was going to happen.
Did you read what they changed the armor set to be?
They didn't "nerf" the set, they changed what it did. If they only did a nerf then it wouldn't change what enchantments you should have on the armor, but by changing it completely it changes what enchantments work best and now will cost some crazy amount of AD to fix.
That's the problem.
Try to read next time people.
Dodgeball: NW-DR9U49EM6 (Approx. 15 min dodgeball tournament against ranged enemies)
Farming Fiesta: NW-DJL23IH7G (Approx. 30-45 min map for farming items and experience)
People are upset because they will no longer have #1 defense and #1 offense all in one set. They are mad because they want to switch to other sets and take their invested enchants with them, but it's their fault for investing in a broken, overpowered set in the first place that was bound to be nerfed. They are mad because they are no longer getting the best of both tanking and damage, and damage is clearly more important to them, so they complain that they can't afford to switch sets now.
lol you sound really butt hurt by Stal users.
There is no comparison between the new set bonus to the old one. They are completely different mechanic's and just goes to show how ignorant you are of the class and the set bonuses.
Previous mechanic works like this:
Receive any form of damage and receive a "STACK" that grants passive buff of 5% of your max health as power that lasted a few seconds and would stack up to 5 times for a total 25% of max health as power. This was easily achievable by using Knights Valor to instantly gain 5 stacks. This means you want to STACK Health to increase the bonus power which also increases your survival as a tank. In the end it creates a very strong Conqueror Build Tank with decent damage.
The new mechanic works like this:
When you "Block" an attack you receive a one time use 20 Damage bonus to your next attack. Which stacks up to 10 times for a maximum of 200 Damage on your next attack.
As you can see the 2 mechanic's are completely different as one is a "Passive Persistent" buff that increases your weapon damage which scales with each encounter and at-wills. While the new mechanic requires you to block which most GF don't normally, let alone blocking 10 attacks and does nothing but give a flat damage bonus on your next attack which is less than a 1% damage increase.
STAL's previous form was giving me a 64% Damage increase to a new bonus that is less than 1%. In all actuality they have completely removed the bonus from the set and why the T2 Grand Regent is now a better set than STAL as stal is completely worthless IMO. There is no reason to ever use the set as the stats of the Grand Regent are higher in every category and it gives a higher % increase in damage.
So please explain the logic and reasoning other than lining their pockets with Zen purchases?
You sound really butt hurt by PWE. I figured you of all people wouldn't support the crowd of whiners.
As to your request for an explaination, the purpose of making Grand Regent better than Stalwart Bulwark is that Grand Regent is Tier 2, while Stalwart is Tier 1. Tier 2 sets are supposed to be better than Tier 1 sets, hence the reason for obtaining the gear from more difficult dungeons. There is supposed to be a progression to gearing up from one tier to the next. GF's could just stop at Tier 1.
Do you think it is fair that some classes need Tier 2 gear to be at their max potential, while GF's can get away with getting BiS gear from super-duper difficult dungeons like The Cloak Tower, The Cragmire Crypts and The Throne of Idris?
This isn't about zen purchases. You can just unsocket all the enchants with the money you saved by using an easily obtainable Tier 1 set all this time.
It's your fault and the fault of all the others that you invested in a Tier 1 set that was bound to get nerfed and be worse than a Tier 2 set. If you don't understand how gear progression works in MMORPG games by The Year of Our Lord 2013, I don't know what to tell you. You could forsee that this would happen months ago.
dkcandy, since you previously agreed with me that this nerf was bound to happen, despite whatever claims of a rework you are slopping about, maybe you should have been more responsible when you were writing your guide. You should have told the masses out there to socket Rank 5's and wait for the nerf you saw coming, instead of recommending that they skip rank 7 and upgrade straight to more costly Rank 8's that they now can't afford to unsocket for some reason.
Or maybe I should have posted in your thread to caution people that Overpowered Sets are Overpowered and will be nerfed, so save your pennies.
Anyways, I'll let you have the last word, since I'm going to go about my business now. We'll just have to disagree on this issue of contention.
What I am annoyed with is I just completed my DPS set which cost me 4Mil AD and I'm currently broke as I only make about 1 Mil AD a week with leadership. But I have enough Rank 8 enchants in my bags as I've been working towards Rank 10's to re-enchant my Human as my PvE character.
I have 5 GF's of different races so I've always got another to play. It just sucks that they screwed over so many other plays that don't have the resources I have since I've been playing since BETA. Just like some said they have spent 3 months farming bosses to get a complete set to have it become worthless and didn't even get to enjoy their new toy.
It is not about a T1 being too overpowered. It is about all GF T2 sets being
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Maybe a nerf to that 5% bonus would be good, dunno. I've been to dungeons in many parties, and all i can say - with my "OP" stalwart-oriented DPS build i could NEVER outdps a good rogue or wizard.
So ppl, if you saw a GF doing more damage than those two classes, it is not a GF being OP. It is other party members being useless.
On the other hand, a good cleric or wizard took so much aggro from me that i was FORCED to spec to stalwart-oriented DPS build. Just to be able to take aggro from them. It was the only way to be SOMEHOW useful in dungeons. Although even then tanks were not needed. Stalwart tank was still worse than a wizard. Gosh, any character is less useful in PVE that a wizard.
Prove me wrong.
And tank was being the least useful.
Now it is completely not needed. At all. Because if the full tanking build was viable AND useful in PVE, i (and most other GFs in game) would never turn to DPS build from the start.
If they reworked the set they could have at least had that in mind. Also at least a dav's acknowledgement of our concerns would be nice. Even Sominator just coming in and thanking us for our feedback would keep us from feeling like we're being just flat out ignored. I think that's the worst part of this. They could at least come out with an explanation of why they changed it to what they changed it to.
Conqueror is the most optimized build for GF with current content till they make the game difficult and require CC.
If you want a challenge go back to the original wow classic level 60 dungeons that required your 5 man party to CC packs of 5 mobs per pull and careful about aggroing a 2nd pack. This game is designed around zerg tactics and smashing thru everything with huge DPS.
There has always been a place for GF's in the party same with GWF. I actually prefer GWF in some runs or even 2 GFs, 2 GWFs and 1 DC for some runs. Depends on the dungeon and how geared the players are. When you are doing ZERG rush tactic's tanky DPS is amazing.
I'm not the OP, but I generally wouldn't expect my armor to completely change into something else, no.
Agreed. Nerf is one thing but the "Rework" into a whole new mechanic is another.
Thats exactly it. Less guard meter= less conquerer bonus.
As has been stated before, this isn't just a nerf, it's a completely different set with a different mechanic.
I know that the GF community will rally and be able to put together some amazing gearsets to offset at least some of the deficit with the death of Stalwarts... but I wonder whether those combinations will be subject to the nerfhammer at some point in time.
its like using lvl 60 green set from NPC with no set bonus
Actually my Blue Set out preforms STAL Tank #'s by more than double /LOL
Edit: LOLOLOLOL - Just read about that lockbox bug. Hahaha. These guys are doing comedy at its best
Also I read the forum alot and look at other classes.....I would say some other classes have much better set bonuses than GF (Tier 1 or Tier 2). If I am supposed to be a tank and not a damage deal than let me be a tank...I feel TR and GWF cut me to ribbons in PvP.....and yet my set needs nerfing cause it makes me OP??? I only know what my L60 is like....so I don't know what OP feels like...I never got the helm to complete my set. Last week I held off because I read about nerf....now I am using mix matched armor because the rest of the set bonuses seem lame to me. Timeless would be my choice I guess....but its super expensive.
Just had a thought.....if they can't allow us to remove our enchantments, how about the salvage guy has a special offer for Stalwart pieces? They can be traded for other armor types bound of course to avoid exploit. I could than have a set of timeless which is what I would have went for if the Stalwart would have been what it is now.
thisssssssssssssssss omfg wtf cryptic why you fck me bro
My reasoning is this. Neverwinter's threat generation is a significant challenge to GFs. We all know that we MUST put out enough damage in addition to throwing around our taunts/marks as much as humanly possible in between damage, to keep our fellow adventurers out of harm's way.
Stalwart (old) was a great set to actually come really close to managing mobs. Blocking was used only when absolutely necessary, when large boss mechanics were being performed, or 50 mobs were all casting their specials on you at once. Sure, you threw some blocking in as well every now and then when it made sense.
Now with my stalwart, I have to spend MUCH more time blocking to gain bonuses (crappy 1 time bonus), which means LESS time putting out damage or taunts/marks to retain aggro.
Sure, it feels nice to be at top damage, but what feels even nicer, is being able to play my role in a group.