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So with the changes on the test shard GWF is officially dead
pandapaul
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 424 Bounty Hunter
If these changes go live its complete end of the class not only can they not get a party they aren't good enough to do the dungeon now...
Squishy like before the unstoppable buff.. Maybe even worse..
Worst dps than every class but a DC
Grats cryptic u destroyed the GWF completely
Squishy like before the unstoppable buff.. Maybe even worse..
Worst dps than every class but a DC
Grats cryptic u destroyed the GWF completely
Post edited by pandapaul on
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Yeah, that would not surprise me at all.
That's not how I roll... If it goes through time to sell up and move onto another game.. Every mmo I play.. I only play one toon that's it..
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
You can blame all this on the whiners who
1) Don't have a clue what PvP is and treat it like the opponents are dumb NPC's..
2) Don't know how to counter other classes...
3) Have no clue how to use the skills they have or at least use the right skills for PvP vs PVE...
4) Have no clue about 1, 2, 3 and get their butts handed to them by a pre-made team using TEAMWORK and run to the forums and whine and scream NERFS till the Devs do something about it.
Because if all of these people actually knew how to play as good as they can whine, these Nerfs probably wouldn't have been so drastic.
Oh I did leave one important factor out, if the devs actually had a clue they would realize that these so called OP'ness of classes were actually caused by the things that make PW money, that being Tenes and NOT the skills in game!
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
im talking about pvp tho... have no knowladge of pve
im wonder whos is whiner now?
btw... forum have nothing with classes changes... devs have their own tests and they balance classes by tests and statistics...
great job devs
Read your posts, then read mine, all of them and you will see I never called out any class for nerfs.
To many people get owned in pvp and immediately cry and complain in these forums, nerf this class, nerf this one too, instead of learning those classes and how to counter them. They think just because they get decent gear they should rotfstomp everyone and if they don't then take the easy road and cry foul.
Minor tweeks to classes, I have no issue with and never will but when the developers take drastic steps which dramatically affect the viability of any class because people whine and complain because they got butt-hurt, it's a total shame.
I will say it again the only real OP thing in this game that doesn't have a counter is stacked tene's, that right there is why this class or that class is OP!
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Join a guild that cares more about it's members than the numbers they put out.
Then you'll get plenty of dungeon time.
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
For GWF unstoppable could help tank a tonne, maybe too much so but I didn't see it as much as a problem, move away and try to kite him since they really need to be within melee range. Although the stun lock is pretty irritating.
Rogues can easily do a lot of damage and cloud of steel in stealth (with the 12 charges) is kind of ridiculous, especially with lurkers assault.
Clerics healing can also be infuriatingly high, but their daily does way too much damage, there's just no argument about it. Although it can be dodged. I do think if their AP generation is going to be lowered from sun burst then AP generation across the board needs to be improved.
GF can also annoyingly have a lot of CC on you, tank a lot, and be constantly on your back with a lot of gap closing. That wouldn't be so bad, but they can also hit really hard when they're not dps.
CW can also be annoying, but are also very squishy so I guess they're not too bad. Although it does irritate me when they can dodge 3 times in succession even after it appears that I've hit them (although that happens with all dodging characters, lag maybe?)
Basically for pvp some changes need to be changed. Although it does look like the proposed ones went overboard. It makes some options not even worth considering.
•This means that the temp health granted by Unstoppable will no longer stick around after it ends, making it easier to build further Determination from the remaining temp health.
does that not seem like a reasonable thing to you guys? were not losing the health boost or getting less dmg reduction when its active, all were doing is losing the health. the whole point of the health boost was to allow us IN PVE to take a large hit from a boss, pop unstoppable and gain enough of a health boost to allow the cleric to get us back up.
this is a good change, it means we cant just charge in blind anymore and stand in everything, move along nothing to see here
So yeah that sounds ok lol? And now GWfs are hitting a dps mark only above the DC... So this is good?? lOL
A hybrid tanker/dps class that can't tank or dps!!!!!! Sounds like a great move to me.. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Cryptic needs to learn how to balance.. If something needs to be addressed... You make a series of nerfs...
Instead they decide to nerf the class into the ground completely... And the customers won't stick around to see if its buffed back up... My guess at least 30% of GWfs will leave the game after this.. Not that 30% is a whole lot considering the way that cryptic has already treated the class.. A majority have already left
But that's the thing, we are guessing the changes are for PvP, because NOBODY was complaining about any class being too strong for PvE. People were complaining about how subpar some classes were for PvE.
And now everybody got a nerf for PvE, while everyone with Ubergear will still own everyone in PvP who hasn't. Nothing has changed, except now it will cost more AD and/or $$ to be competitive.
Please stop insulting others.
I do know how to play pvp, with all of my characters. And i know that some GWF builds are almost immortal, unless the whole team focuses on this guy for 40-50s. This is way too much in a pvp match. Rogues can also one-shot characters like my DC with 2k defence and 25k HPs. And yes i know how to see them, it's just impossible in a messy pvp match.
So, GWFs can stunlock others until they die while they take no damage, rogues can one-shot... Yeah, all these nerfs are deserved. And imo the stunlock builds should be completely flushed into the toilets, but the devs have been very generous with GWFs since the start. These nerfs are a lot softer than they should be. With DCs, not so much. Nerfs only, and players are still there.
Ofc i'm talking about real endgame, not about your 8k gs GWF you've been playing for a week.
EVERY class can one-shot EVERY other class. Although technically it's never a one-shot, it either requires a daily or a debuff first, and of course the ubergear.
EVERY class is OP when they stack Tene's, this has nothing to do with the class, this has everything to do with P2W.
No, the devs have NOT been very generous to GWF since the start, they've been nerfing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of them since open beta started.
And stunlocks have nothing to do with tenes. Get your head out of the clouds, tenes are not the issue, it's the class itself, it does as much damage as a dps class, stuns as much as a control one if not more, and tanks as well as a real tank.
Oddly, i can OS a rogue or a DC with my CW, but i can never do that, even if i stun and debuff like mad, a GWF. And of course those guys do very competitive damage while stunlocking people (probably better than me with my CW, chill takes time, GWFs just need to spam unstoppable and get to melee range), and most of them don't use cash shop items.
So, yes, they have been very generous with a class they should have nerfed even further since day 1.
Stunlocks don't kill, damage kills.
And if nerfing since open beta is generous, than sure, they've been extremely 'generous'.
And I'm sorry to hear you're struggling with your class, but don't take it out on others, 'kay?
Exactly, Tene's are the problem, nothing but P2W
I don't think his head is in the clouds, his is right on the money. As for whose head is, I will leave you to figure that out.
Hint: mirror
BTW: I don't play a GWF, but that doesn't mean I don't feel for other classes getting nerfed into oblivion because of a P2W enchant.
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
I had to hear that with Rogues too... honestly respec it's free on preview you'd be surprised... you just don't know how to play and must rely on bugs/exploits to do good. The Rogues I knew that were testing alt specs on preview had NO PROBLEMS with dps... and I bet you my GWF if I wasn't main cleric would be perfectly fine at DPS also. but they are not max so there is no point to leveling on a test shard where no changes are perm. Maybe once shes 60 I can copy her but not until then. 23 levels to go.
The problem, guy, is that you never played a gwf. You play a cw. You don't know what you're talking about.
"does as much damage as a dps class". Bull****. GWF dps is not even close to rogues dps. It's even lower than CWs and may be comparable to GFs. It's higher only if specced for destroyer. But that build is made of paper. Even easier to kil lthan a TR or a CW, cause it has much less mobility and can't dodge. Plus: did you notice that GWFs skills are SLOW? I mean, the animation takes 1 second or more. In fact, ANY skilled CW or rogue can just wait for the animation to start and DODGE/TELEPORT, making you wait for another full cooldown. So your "as much DPS as blablabla" is just nonsense. It's medium-high damage at best, with the easiest encounters to dodge in the Whole game.
"stuns as much as a control class". Again, bull****. And you know it since you play a cw. You can cc, push back a mile, then teleport, cc again. GWF class control is around 3 seconds for takedown and 1 second stun for fluorish if you took the stunning flourish feat. 4 seconds cc. It's even less than 1 single cc encounter of a CW. All you can do is to takedown-flourish-IBS, then wait cooldown. And that's the only way to hit someone, since the skills have the slow animations mentioned above. If, obviously, the other player can't dodge takedown. And any good rogue or cw can dodge takedown. You can cc more only if you stack recovery a lot + destroyer feat that decrease 25% of takedown cd, and put crescendo in the mix. But crescendo is a daily, and you can't use it Always. Plus, it happens many times that the enemy dodge-teleport and the last hit (the one that actually stuns), misses.
But to know all this, you should know the class and have played it a bit. And you do not.
"Can tank as a tank". Now, if you're talking about sentinel build+ regen+ high hp builds, yes. They can tank a lot. If you talk about normal builds, no. They can tank a bit thanks to unstoppable. But let's take a look at this infamous unstoppable on a normal build.
A GWF can't dodge or teleport like rogues or cw. Plus he is not ranged. He is melee. And have no stealth. So what does he do? He eats damage. In 1v1 (not considering the battle, where you just get swarmed with damage), a GWF eats all the damage a CW unloads on him with his encounters. Same for the TR. At this point, he can use unstoppable, But his HP, if we both have the same GS, have already dropped by 40% (cw) and 50-60% or more with a TR. Now, you go unstoppable, which is at best at 3/4. 35% damage resistance and 15% temporary hp. But. The cw teleports, so your unstoppable runs out before you can reach him. The TR go stealth or dodge, or go ITC, so unstoppable runs out before you can attack. So you start eating damage again, and in the end you may be able to reach them.
Did you read carefully? What do we do to use unstoppable (spam, as you say)? Eat damage. While CWs ans TRs spam their ranged Attacks, teleport, dodge, cc exc...
That's why we got unstoppable. Now, if it changed the way people say, you will have a slow class, that have to eat damage, but don't have any ability that lets it survive the damage. We can't "spam" unstoppable. We eat lots of damage (it's at least 30-40% of your hp before you can use it), then we can go unstoppable and partially recover. And against ranged classes it's useful to be able to reach them. Keep in mind that our charge ability covers 1/3 of the space you guys can cover with 3 teleports or dodging.
From what i read, you don't really know how to counter the class, so you say it's OP. While it's only the sent class that could be nerfed, and tenes SURE needs a nerf (a enchant that stacks and gives high DPS burst using high HPs, which is a defensive stat. Lol. And you say it's not OP. Have you ever faced a GF or sentinel with tenes? Even if you have tenes too, they will have more benefit thanks to their much higher HP. And the more you stack them, the more advantage they get).
You have the option to cc, attack from distance, teleport when he first get into range during unstoppable and attempt to attack, then teleport again when he again tries to attack, then teleport again when he tries to attack. Then his encounters are all on cooldown. The damage you take is minimal. You can move a bit, wait for your CD to end, then cc again, teleport again, push him away, teleport again, teleport again, dodging his encounters everytime. if the GWF is good, he can fool you and make you teleport before he tries to use his encounter. But usually all you have to do is wait for the animation to start, and teleport. Unstoppable is the only thing that prevent this mechanism (or the stealth- ranged- or high DPS Attacks of rogues) from just owning a GWF before he can even land a hit.
Now, if your complain is because we can fight in brawls and survive... well, it's cause we are a class that is made to fight in brawls,just like GFs. And, unless you're a sent, any other build just don't have the survivability of GFs (and it should, in fact, be that way).
I challenge you: after feywild is on, roll a GWF to 60 and go PvP. Then come again and say it's balanced. We'll laugh a lot. Sincerely. Make a GWF and go PvP with it.
Nah my main concern is that when there is a GWF near you, you HAVE to deal with him. You can pretty much ignore every other class even if they focus you (except 12k TRs with perfect vorpals) and keep doing your stuff, but when the GWF is on you, he has to become your primary target, because he will stunlock you to death and do quite a lot of damage. The best i can do with all my 3 characters is statu quo with a GWF, even if my CW has a crapton of damage and very fast chill stacking abilities. The only classes able to deal with one is... A GWF, and sometimes, a TR or a 15k GF. But the main threat for a GWF is another GWF, and i think it's still a huge anomaly.
I also remember an epic spider run two weeks ago. During the boss fight, the CW made a mistake, pushed mobs and didn't control them, my DC was half health and i died because 6 or 7 blademasters charged me at the same time, the shield was on CD, i died, everyone wiped, except the two GWFs. I suggested a wipe, one of them said "no", and they kept attacking the boss and killed it. You know how hard-hitting blademasters can be, and how much dps is required to kill that boss. Yes, they were both a bit under 13k GS, and one of them had a full avatar of war set, but this shouldn't happen. That's definitely broken.