Nah my main concern is that when there is a GWF near you, you HAVE to deal with him. You can pretty much ignore every other class even if they focus you (except 12k TRs with perfect vorpals) and keep doing your stuff, but when the GWF is on you, he has to become your primary target, because he will stunlock you to death and do quite a lot of damage.
How is that stunlock any different from the gf's bouncing betty pronelock or the cw's entangle-enfeeble-knife-(repel if alive) combo?
It's got the slowest animation time, and all except Flourish, doesn't require a dodge to dodge.
Nah my main concern is that when there is a GWF near you, you HAVE to deal with him. You can pretty much ignore every other class even if they focus you (except 12k TRs with perfect vorpals) and keep doing your stuff, but when the GWF is on you, he has to become your primary target, because he will stunlock you to death and do quite a lot of damage. The best i can do with all my 3 characters is statu quo with a GWF, even if my CW has a crapton of damage and very fast chill stacking abilities. The only classes able to deal with one is... A GWF, and sometimes, a TR or a 15k GF. But the main threat for a GWF is another GWF, and i think it's still a huge anomaly.
I also remember an epic spider run two weeks ago. During the boss fight, the CW made a mistake, pushed mobs and didn't control them, my DC was half health and i died because 6 or 7 blademasters charged me at the same time, the shield was on CD, i died, everyone wiped, except the two GWFs. I suggested a wipe, one of them said "no", and they kept attacking the boss and killed it. You know how hard-hitting blademasters can be, and how much dps is required to kill that boss. Yes, they were both a bit under 13k GS, and one of them had a full avatar of war set, but this shouldn't happen. That's definitely broken.
You know a GF can do the same thing you just mentioned a GWF can do.
The only difference is, GF have thier block going for them. What GWF have is thier unstoppable long enough for them to have a chance of getting away when they eat up all the damage.
GWF's only boon is stunning and doing good damage in pvp, or at least being a major inconvenience to thier primary target.
New patch, thier just plain going to be a minor inconvenience to thier primary target.
And in pve. Well, they would be an major inconvenience to thier own party.
The main threat to a GWF, is a TR or another GWf and even a GF. Hell if a control wizard catches a GWF before the GWF sees them, they are pretty much through
Nah my main concern is that when there is a GWF near you, you HAVE to deal with him. You can pretty much ignore every other class even if they focus you (except 12k TRs with perfect vorpals) and keep doing your stuff, but when the GWF is on you, he has to become your primary target, because he will stunlock you to death and do quite a lot of damage. The best i can do with all my 3 characters is statu quo with a GWF, even if my CW has a crapton of damage and very fast chill stacking abilities. The only classes able to deal with one is... A GWF, and sometimes, a TR or a 15k GF. But the main threat for a GWF is another GWF, and i think it's still a huge anomaly.
I also remember an epic spider run two weeks ago. During the boss fight, the CW made a mistake, pushed mobs and didn't control them, my DC was half health and i died because 6 or 7 blademasters charged me at the same time, the shield was on CD, i died, everyone wiped, except the two GWFs. I suggested a wipe, one of them said "no", and they kept attacking the boss and killed it. You know how hard-hitting blademasters can be, and how much dps is required to kill that boss. Yes, they were both a bit under 13k GS, and one of them had a full avatar of war set, but this shouldn't happen. That's definitely broken.
As i said: make a gwf and go play it after the nerf. Do it. Normal build. No tenes. Just a normal build. Then come tell me how much damage you deal, and how much you survive in PvP. Please do it. Then come back and tell me the class was balanced.
You know a GF can do the same thing you just mentioned a GWF can do.
The only difference is, GF have thier block going for them. What GWF have is thier unstoppable long enough for them to have a chance of getting away when they eat up all the damage.
GWF's only boon is stunning and doing good damage in pvp, or at least being a major inconvenience to thier primary target.
New patch, thier just plain going to be a minor inconvenience to thier primary target.
And in pve. Well, they would be an major inconvenience to thier own party.
The main threat to a GWF, is a TR or another GWf and even a GF. Hell if a control wizard catches a GWF before the GWF sees them, they are pretty much through
Lol. Any class is a counter to a gwf. A skilled tr can hit you hard, stealth, go itc, throw knives from stealth and bring your hp down in the blink of an eye. And when you see them and run at them, your sloooow animations are dodged like joke. A gf can prone you and bring your hp down a lot. Then block. You can circle them , but it's easier said than done if the gf is a bit good. A cw, as i said, can cc you a lot, then when you go unstoppable and reach him, teleport right before your sloooow animation hits. Then attack you with ranged Attacks. Then make you easily miss your attack again. And again. At this point your hp dropped a lot and you still were not able to land a single hit. This is if the cw is good. You can try to fool him, run at him and try to make him teleport before you actually try to attack. That way you can keep running, make him waste his teleports and have a chance to catch him. But again, he have the upper hand. Cause all he has to do is wait for your attack animation to start and teleport.
Only build i found hard to counter is the sentinel with high hp and regen. Cause, at least at my gs (around 9k): they have may be 30k hp or more. And their regen ticks for 1,5k when near to half their hp. You bring their hp down to half, then your encounters are almost swallowed by unstoppable (which, at very high hp like sentinels, starts to heal A LOT) and your at-wills are swallowed by their max regeneration. If they use restoring strike, it's even harder to see their hp drop.
I have around 3,3k power, 1,2k crit, 1,2k arp, 24k hp and 2,2 k def, with around 4% life steal (waiting to enchant stuff until i have good weapon and enchants). I usually can bring their hp down to 60%, then i struggle making them drop more than that. Still they can hit me for 3k. The fight is long, but usually my hp keep dropping, while their hp seems to stop dropping once they get to the gold 50-60% hp limit.
A TR can may be outdamage their regen+ unstoppable at such high hp, but i think any other class, unless you stack crit and power enough to consistenly land critical hits, find it really, really hard to bring them down once they reach their 50-60% hp limit.
That's the only thing that may use a nerf in GWFs. Untoppable itself is the only thing that prevents them from being easy targets.
Lol. Any class is a counter to a gwf. A skilled tr can hit you hard, stealth, go itc, throw knives from stealth and bring your hp down in the blink of an eye. And when you see them and run at them, your sloooow animations are dodged like joke. A gf can prone you and bring your hp down a lot. Then block. You can circle them , but it's easier said than done if the gf is a bit good. A cw, as i said, can cc you a lot, then when you go unstoppable and reach him, teleport right before your sloooow animation hits. Then attack you with ranged Attacks. Then make you easily miss your attack again. And again. At this point your hp dropped a lot and you still were not able to land a single hit. This is if the cw is good. You can try to fool him, run at him and try to make him teleport before you actually try to attack. That way you can keep running, make him waste his teleports and have a chance to catch him. But again, he have the upper hand. Cause all he has to do is wait for your attack animation to start and teleport.
Only build i found hard to counter is the sentinel with high hp and regen. Cause, at least at my gs (around 9k): they have may be 30k hp or more. And their regen ticks for 1,5k when near to half their hp. You bring their hp down to half, then your encounters are almost swallowed by unstoppable (which, at very high hp like sentinels, starts to heal A LOT) and your at-wills are swallowed by their max regeneration. If they use restoring strike, it's even harder to see their hp drop.
I have around 3,3k power, 1,2k crit, 1,2k arp, 24k hp and 2,2 k def, with around 4% life steal (waiting to enchant stuff until i have good weapon and enchants). I usually can bring their hp down to 60%, then i struggle making them drop more than that. Still they can hit me for 3k. The fight is long, but usually my hp keep dropping, while their hp seems to stop dropping once they get to the gold 50-60% hp limit.
A TR can may be outdamage their regen+ unstoppable at such high hp, but i think any other class, unless you stack crit and power enough to consistenly land critical hits, find it really, really hard to bring them down once they reach their 50-60% hp limit.
That's the only thing that may use a nerf in GWFs. Untoppable itself is the only thing that prevents them from being easy targets.
yeah that is essentially my point. Sentinal gwf indeed are kind of ridiculous. But its the fact is, they dont hit that hard at all. They're only a problem if you are waisting too much time TRYING to kill them. But that becomes and will become a problem if that persists as many gwf will begin adopting this method, and you cant win a match with so many of those on the team holding points. Though that even still can be accomplished.
The fact being, in normal circumstances, a gwf can be overcomed JUST as easily as any other class. No question about it. I deliberately left out how and why, because I shouldn't have to spell out things people should be looking for in a competitive arch-type. If you cannot overcome an opponent and think you can just flourish (the word not the encounter skill) through every thing in full assault. Then you get what you deserve. competitive fighting is more than just smash, smash, smash. Very little wars were fought by throwing men at each other with the strongest of the armies winning. Its a thing called tactic,strategy and analyzation that is used.
yeah that is essentially my point. Sentinal gwf indeed are kind of ridiculous. But its the fact is, they dont hit that hard at all. They're only a problem if you are waisting too much time TRYING to kill them. But that becomes and will become a problem if that persists as many gwf will begin adopting this method, and you cant win a match with so many of those on the team holding points. Though that even still can be accomplished.
The fact being, in normal circumstances, a gwf can be overcomed JUST as easily as any other class. No question about it. I deliberately left out how and why, because I shouldn't have to spell out things people should be looking for in a competitive arch-type. If you cannot overcome an opponent and think you can just flourish (the word not the encounter skill) through every thing in full assault. Then you get what you deserve. competitive fighting is more than just smash, smash, smash. Very little wars were fought by throwing men at each other with the strongest of the armies winning. Its a thing called tactic,strategy and analyzation that is used.
Yeah, with team play you can overcome such things. Still, talking about balance, we've to look at 1v1 situations. In a duel against a sentinel, a gwf can only hit, may be try to avoid his unstoppable, but if you stop attacking to wait for unstoppable do end, he will heal, in 8 seconds (duration of unstoppable) around 5k hp. So you've to keep attacking. May be try to time your unstoppable and use wms to debuff, but in the end his regen+ unstoppable at 50-60% hp will prove hard to overcome. We're talking about 15-20% temporary hp (6k hp with a 30k build, 7k with 37k hp) from unstoppable plus 1,5k hp every 3 seconds from passive regeneration. The only classes i can see countering them 1v1 are may be a cw if he can cc, ice knife and teleport to avoid damage, and more than anyone else, a high dps tr, with high critic damage. May be a full destroyer, with 11k attack and 49% critical chance too. Critics are the only way i see to beat such monster self healing-regen.
Right now, the temporary hp nerf could make it possible to face sentinels better. But normal builds would see their survivability drop a lot. And that's almost the only good thing a normal gwf has...
Comments
How is that stunlock any different from the gf's bouncing betty pronelock or the cw's entangle-enfeeble-knife-(repel if alive) combo?
It's got the slowest animation time, and all except Flourish, doesn't require a dodge to dodge.
You know a GF can do the same thing you just mentioned a GWF can do.
The only difference is, GF have thier block going for them. What GWF have is thier unstoppable long enough for them to have a chance of getting away when they eat up all the damage.
GWF's only boon is stunning and doing good damage in pvp, or at least being a major inconvenience to thier primary target.
New patch, thier just plain going to be a minor inconvenience to thier primary target.
And in pve. Well, they would be an major inconvenience to thier own party.
The main threat to a GWF, is a TR or another GWf and even a GF. Hell if a control wizard catches a GWF before the GWF sees them, they are pretty much through
As i said: make a gwf and go play it after the nerf. Do it. Normal build. No tenes. Just a normal build. Then come tell me how much damage you deal, and how much you survive in PvP. Please do it. Then come back and tell me the class was balanced.
Lol. Any class is a counter to a gwf. A skilled tr can hit you hard, stealth, go itc, throw knives from stealth and bring your hp down in the blink of an eye. And when you see them and run at them, your sloooow animations are dodged like joke. A gf can prone you and bring your hp down a lot. Then block. You can circle them , but it's easier said than done if the gf is a bit good. A cw, as i said, can cc you a lot, then when you go unstoppable and reach him, teleport right before your sloooow animation hits. Then attack you with ranged Attacks. Then make you easily miss your attack again. And again. At this point your hp dropped a lot and you still were not able to land a single hit. This is if the cw is good. You can try to fool him, run at him and try to make him teleport before you actually try to attack. That way you can keep running, make him waste his teleports and have a chance to catch him. But again, he have the upper hand. Cause all he has to do is wait for your attack animation to start and teleport.
Only build i found hard to counter is the sentinel with high hp and regen. Cause, at least at my gs (around 9k): they have may be 30k hp or more. And their regen ticks for 1,5k when near to half their hp. You bring their hp down to half, then your encounters are almost swallowed by unstoppable (which, at very high hp like sentinels, starts to heal A LOT) and your at-wills are swallowed by their max regeneration. If they use restoring strike, it's even harder to see their hp drop.
I have around 3,3k power, 1,2k crit, 1,2k arp, 24k hp and 2,2 k def, with around 4% life steal (waiting to enchant stuff until i have good weapon and enchants). I usually can bring their hp down to 60%, then i struggle making them drop more than that. Still they can hit me for 3k. The fight is long, but usually my hp keep dropping, while their hp seems to stop dropping once they get to the gold 50-60% hp limit.
A TR can may be outdamage their regen+ unstoppable at such high hp, but i think any other class, unless you stack crit and power enough to consistenly land critical hits, find it really, really hard to bring them down once they reach their 50-60% hp limit.
That's the only thing that may use a nerf in GWFs. Untoppable itself is the only thing that prevents them from being easy targets.
yeah that is essentially my point. Sentinal gwf indeed are kind of ridiculous. But its the fact is, they dont hit that hard at all. They're only a problem if you are waisting too much time TRYING to kill them. But that becomes and will become a problem if that persists as many gwf will begin adopting this method, and you cant win a match with so many of those on the team holding points. Though that even still can be accomplished.
The fact being, in normal circumstances, a gwf can be overcomed JUST as easily as any other class. No question about it. I deliberately left out how and why, because I shouldn't have to spell out things people should be looking for in a competitive arch-type. If you cannot overcome an opponent and think you can just flourish (the word not the encounter skill) through every thing in full assault. Then you get what you deserve. competitive fighting is more than just smash, smash, smash. Very little wars were fought by throwing men at each other with the strongest of the armies winning. Its a thing called tactic,strategy and analyzation that is used.
Yeah, with team play you can overcome such things. Still, talking about balance, we've to look at 1v1 situations. In a duel against a sentinel, a gwf can only hit, may be try to avoid his unstoppable, but if you stop attacking to wait for unstoppable do end, he will heal, in 8 seconds (duration of unstoppable) around 5k hp. So you've to keep attacking. May be try to time your unstoppable and use wms to debuff, but in the end his regen+ unstoppable at 50-60% hp will prove hard to overcome. We're talking about 15-20% temporary hp (6k hp with a 30k build, 7k with 37k hp) from unstoppable plus 1,5k hp every 3 seconds from passive regeneration. The only classes i can see countering them 1v1 are may be a cw if he can cc, ice knife and teleport to avoid damage, and more than anyone else, a high dps tr, with high critic damage. May be a full destroyer, with 11k attack and 49% critical chance too. Critics are the only way i see to beat such monster self healing-regen.
Right now, the temporary hp nerf could make it possible to face sentinels better. But normal builds would see their survivability drop a lot. And that's almost the only good thing a normal gwf has...