It means less daily powers, like divine armor, hallowed ground, column of fire. Not a big deal in pve, since daily powers are mostly underwhelming and only very small dps/healing extras anyway, but in pvp, it's going to be a disaster along with the crazy hammer of fate nerf. It's like cryptic wants DCs not to get kills, blue gear rewards, top score and such, and force them into the healing role in pvp.
IIRC feated hallowed ground already counts for less than 3-4% of heals in dungeons, if you use it on CD atm. Divine armor is a nice feat for deepstone blessing, but we have sacred flame, and the extra tanking is nice to fill the 5s shield downtime, but it's not mandatory either. It means potions during the AS downtime, even less heals or mitigation from our crappy dailies... Well, they are only removing extras. Nothing to worry about. All of our dailies suck in pve. What do we lose? A lot less stuff than CWs.
Moontouched does 10% healing for me on a CN run. The uptime will be cut to about 40% of what it currently is, so I can expect it will be doing ~4% healing after the change. The most significant difference however, is the loss of mitigation uptime. HG will only fill every other gap between astral shields. Before the constant mitigation made large pulls possible. Since every boss is essentially a "large pull" with infinite adds, I'm not sure what will fill the gap now.
Moontouched does 10% healing for me on a CN run. The uptime will be cut to about 40% of what it currently is, so I can expect it will be doing ~4% healing after the change. The most significant difference however, is the loss of mitigation uptime. HG will only fill every other gap between astral shields. Before the constant mitigation made large pulls possible. Since every boss is essentially a "large pull" with infinite adds, I'm not sure what will fill the gap now.
Apparently high GS. In other words to farm up T2 dungeons you will need to be in T2 gear with decent enchants, which makes perfect sence. Not. The nerf bat is out all across the board, hide while you can. But we should expect more nerfs in future since dungeons are too easy for people in 14k gear.
you dont get it do you........ he's doing t1 because he cant do t2.
ofc i got it, the problem is u didnt get what i was saying, since the drop is BoP, even he can do t1 he won't be doing that... so T1 running pugs will be stuck with 6k gs fellas...
Apparently high GS. In other words to farm up T2 dungeons you will need to be in T2 gear with decent enchants, which makes perfect sence. Not. The nerf bat is out all across the board, hide while you can. But we should expect more nerfs in future since dungeons are too easy for people in 14k gear.
I really don't think that's the case for DC... been carrying gs 9k DC into spell all the time(and we do 3 times dg during one DD)... cuz DC is just a rare resource... you don't get to pick DC, DC picks you...
However, same cannot be said to TR, if you have a really bad TR, you just can't kill spider b*tch... plus there are just a bunch of them out there waiting for you to pick...
I'm sorry that whomever is burdened with reading this first may not be the one responsible for which I require assistance. I am no particular player of importance, yet I fear these times call for a vanguard or hero if you will. I Jim Croce, Protector of Neverwinter, cleric of Kelemvor, and Defender of the faiths will take this responsibility. It has come to knowledge that changes will be coming soon to the population of protectors enclave, most especially changes to my fellow keepers of faith. This is why I have contacted you today by messenger bird Lord Cryptic. I may not have the glory of being a lord of your stature but, I have spent many a time protecting your realm, and have a following, a quild if you will, devoted to my cause. I must hear from your lips that the following amendments to your law are final and true: #1 My hammer may only deliver 3/5 the justice to neverwinters enemys. #2 I must require much more time preparing my hallow ground from battle. If these are truths you speak then, mark my words Lord Cryptic, Jim Croce and his followers will find a new realm to protect, and a new beneficiary for their copper. I expect that you will make haste in response since the times are so dire.
Cryptic is a shame for the brand of dungeon&dragons. If I were Wizard of the Coast, I would withdraw the license to prevent damage to the brand.
I have played alot of MMORPGs and there are always balance problems. However, Cryptic won a contest by far. Here is my official award as worst game balance designers in a MMORPG. Maybe even in whole history of computer games.
The game designers have to be proven as so completely incompetent, that there is no word for it. But consindering the time they do need to do a change at all, I think, the main time they drink coffee, smoking and chatting during work anyways.
I think there's a lot of thoughtless bellyaching going on here about most of these changes, however I too feel the change to HoF is a bit much. To get the most out of it you needed to prep it a bit anyway ie get a debuff or a stun/slow on your intended target, otherwise for the most part there's a strong chance it would go to waste. Even with prime "circumstances" you're still somewhat reliant on getting lucky with crit. HoFs one big saving grace was it's base damage. At least if you got lucky, it could make a difference. Now, for most DCs this skill will be like 10k instead of 16k.
So, you better start upgrading that vorpal, or looking at arpen and practice setting up for the killing blow while praying to the gods of RNG .. while being focused by practically the whole of the opposing team. Sounds like fun doesn't it.
I would say that it's just pandering .. to the lowest common denominator, that *****es and whines when their DC "free kill" turns around and slaps 'em with HoF .. except, I haven't seen such whining.
The fact that it's a daily anyway and a lot harder to power up in pvp than pve and then has to be chosen over something that might benefit the team more overall - nope not hard enough for you.
Easy to see coming damage split over 3 stages, all equally avoidable and all subject to crit chance - nope, still too easy for you.
Still, at least it's damage is sufficient that I can gear/spec for survivablity/heals and still have something fairly effective offensively - hmmm, yea, we'll deal with that then ....
Maybe with all the new enchants and gear and other classes balance tweaks, it will all slot together and make sense. Maybe we won't need to gimp ourselves into tank mode and stack deflect/regen at the expense of some offense, simply because otherwise we're (as someone posted a while back) "fish food". Who knows? A more important question might be "who cares?". I'm getting increasingly bored with this game (and it's playerbase) at the moment anyway, so it's actually hard for me to care and from what I've seen of Feywild, I don't think that's going to change ... and no new pvp maps? I mean, wtf? Add pvp maps to the foundry or something ... DO SOMETHING, .. other than a sub par wintergrasp rip off, designed to make people buy faster mounts.
The combat/skill system in this game is decent. Everything around it though, all it's trappings, are rapidly becoming just a big fat yawn.
Also what does this even mean?
Feat: Healing Step: This feat no longer counts as an Encounter power for the purpose of triggering effects.
What effects does healing step even trigger? Isn't healing step the "effect"? I'm assuming it means no more healing step proccing from seal etc but maybe someone can enlighten me.
The wording on things in this game and in notes etc, .. Cryptic is like ... the perfect name.
Moontouched does 10% healing for me on a CN run. The uptime will be cut to about 40% of what it currently is, so I can expect it will be doing ~4% healing after the change. The most significant difference however, is the loss of mitigation uptime. HG will only fill every other gap between astral shields. Before the constant mitigation made large pulls possible. Since every boss is essentially a "large pull" with infinite adds, I'm not sure what will fill the gap now.
Cast SB during downtime with foresight. I have stopped using foresight, but i think most of us not using it atm will have to harass the devs until they hand us out a free respec token for all these nerfs. Yep, bye bye healer's lore.
lordtremereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I LOVE this game....absolutely love it. But I can not play it after this, this nerfing so clearly about $$ and not balance. The Cleric was already underpowered, yet we all stuck with it....geared up, maxed our lvl and had fun. This is not fun, the Hammer of Fate is the only real sure offense we had....PVE or PVP, this is absolutely rediculous and I've NEVER been this angry at a game- ever.
Wooooow. "Listening to player feedback", lol. while i agree with the TR nerfs, cleric was certainly the most underpowered of the underpowered before this patch, and what do they do? give us a couple nerfs and make some previously not working feats/encounters working? I was so excited for this patch, but no... if they spent anywhere near the time they spend on their mini-transaction bull**** on class balance, that would be something. Seriously can't wait till the next mmo, this one is completely ridiculous.
Wooooow. "Listening to player feedback", lol. while i agree with the TR nerfs, cleric was certainly the most underpowered of the underpowered before this patch, and what do they do? give us a couple nerfs and make some previously not working feats/encounters working? I was so excited for this patch, but no... if they spent anywhere near the time they spend on their mini-transaction bull**** on class balance, that would be something. Seriously can't wait till the next mmo, this one is completely ridiculous.
I'm switching games. This is way beyond my tolerance level.
**** its 1am and I was curious so gonna take my DPS DC onto the preview shard and test Flame Strike vs. Hammer of Fate and its patching that huge new patch.
hahah i just tried to leave a comment on the official update page asking about the cleric nerfs and that they should go read their own forums. but apparently the turned off allowing comments on the update page way to go devs.
Yay Hammer of Fail. The more I think about this, the worse it is.
Asking us to spend 100% of our AP so that we have a small chance (contingent upon landing the killing blow...) to regain 15% of our AP...so we can what? Cast another weak Daily?
Would be preferable to remove the skill entirely and replace it with a Daily self buff that breaks free of CC and renders caster immune for 8 seconds or something. Or keep the skill, nerf its damage down to barely usable levels (as currently planned) and give the caster the CC immune buff for X seconds after casting is finished. The proposed change just makes it worthless.
Even Flame Strike will be preferable because the damage will be comparable and AoE rather than single-target.
So yea a week and 9 pages later I supposed I should clarify my response to the patch notes.
I get that PE needs to slow down progression. It is far to easy for a person on their first level 60 character to gear up for the highest level of PvE content, and when it comes to Alts after that you can have them CN ready by the time they hit 60 very easily. Gear for the most part is easy to get, the hardest slots being the shirt, pants, higher enchants and special weapon/armor enchants, mainly because they require the acquisition of base components that are rare or only readily attainable via the zen store or by zen store proxy.
BoP will fix this to the extent that it will reduce the supply on the AH, and force you to use the character you are gearing to gear them. This however is a band-aid instead of a cure, in that the root problem is the ability to clear content at an extreme rate due to trash skipping. You can call it exploiting if you want, but we all know it's being done on a massive scale, and if it was really a concern it would have been patched. I don't believe for a second PE is ignorant of what is going on. If someone at PE looked for a PUG group for the dungeon part of GG, how likely do you think it is that they would find a group NOT doing "fast runs"? Maybe they fixed all the holes in the walls along with the rest, but it sure looks like they have chose to patch up rather then fix the core problem.
The cleric changes in the context of the rest fit. They are trying to reduce the availability of dailies. Considering Dailies for a cleric were a good gap filler for the CD change to AS, this will create a further gap in AE healing, and they seem to be pushing to a more targeted healing approach. Have fun with using a pip for HW on a single target multiple times to fill the gap created by increased daily down time combined with the previous AS downtime. Of course channeled at will will help, but it's not fire and forget so yea things will get more interesting, especially when you aren't going to have a steady stream of singularities from a CW.
For these types of changes I'll reserve judgement until I see it all in action, but they seem to be pushing toward more single target healing with a targeting system that is really clunky for healing purposes compared to most games. I have yet to try scripted key mappings for target lock, but I may give that a shot depending, as target lock every time prior to casting a direct heal is tedious, and really wouldn't be necessary for me save for auto target adjust that you can't shut off. I'm not holding my breath that channeled divinity will be buffed enough to make it efficient. I shun it because the heal rate without points spent into improving it has always felt lack luster, and of course if you are channeling you aren't doing something that will result in divinity gain which will still be true after patch. Really this all looked to me like they were further reducing many of our tools and the trade off was that... well we get to slow a single target, and maybe stuff will proc talents more.
Then we come to the HoF change, that was the straw for me, that elicited the "screw you too PE". Nerfing it's damage seemed insulting, and the trade off creates such a synergistic absurdity that I believe the person or team that came up with it should be FIRED, but hey it's probably the same person or persons that came up with the description for Righteousness (I mean come on, at least attempt to make it appear beneficial by describing it as self healing being the base line not self healing being reduced from the base line, the mechanics would remain unchanged). I suspect however instead this person or persons will be promoted to a new position in marketing, keeping in line with the theme of the changes.
After playing REAL healers in a myriad of other mmos over the last 14 years i can say pre-patch this is the weakest healer class out of the lot. And all theyve done since i started playing nw is make it weaker patch by patch(at least since open beta)
Feeling for those of you who have invested heavily in cleric mains.
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areys77Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited August 2013
Clerics in DnD are not like WoW's Priest. Clerics can heal but are NOT heal bots like they were in WoW. This isn't WoW. There will probably never be a WoW like healer in this game.
Areys77, you are incorrect. There are 4.0 builds in DnD for clerics that absolutely make them heal bots. I was in a campaign for the last 4 years that featured a heal bot cleric. If you are someone who has never played 4.0 then your statement makes more sense. It's not the most popular version of DnD. However, you can absolutely make a heal bot in 4.0.
Now that I think about it, one of the biggest complaints clerics have had over the years is that they have too much healing and not enough ooomph. What version of DnD are you talking about? Granted, there were always powers you took like Bless in earlier versions, but you could carry multiple cure (insert severity here) spells of the same level if you wanted to.
Clerics in DnD are not like WoW's Priest. Clerics can heal but are NOT heal bots like they were in WoW. This isn't WoW. There will probably never be a WoW like healer in this game.
That will only be true when our healing abilities are both strong and flexible enough to allow us to slot something besides heals and not have an inferior chance of success on encounters. I'd argue that this is easily true for trash, but most boss fights I'm not loading any nukes or debuffs which granted may have less to do with the strength of our heals and more to do with the tactics for the fight and the mechanics of our heals. Scaling back healing powers is not going to alleviate this condition, instead it will exasperate it.
Being a solo DC who's built to maximize divinity (not healbotting) and uses HoF to get out of the tough spots that always arise when you're fighting mobs as a DC, I'm still miffed about the HoF nerf and range from annoyed to happy about everything else. Do they SERIOUSLY have to nerf my one hard-hitting daily? For crying out loud, it's a single target, not an overpowered AoE, and it keeps me slightly insulated for a few seconds when I need to take down or weaken the winterwolves and mindwarps of the world when I'm running solo and there's not a soul around to save me if I need it.
Can't they at least give us a response to acknowledge us the way they have for TRs and GWFs? I was dismayed before but I'm getting mad now.
Yeah the hammer of fate nerf was stupid, I routinely do more damage with my daunting light as an AoE attack then hammer of fate can do to a single target now. So my encounter power is now better damage then my daily? This makes no sense.
Comments
you dont get it do you........ he's doing t1 because he cant do t2.
Moontouched does 10% healing for me on a CN run. The uptime will be cut to about 40% of what it currently is, so I can expect it will be doing ~4% healing after the change. The most significant difference however, is the loss of mitigation uptime. HG will only fill every other gap between astral shields. Before the constant mitigation made large pulls possible. Since every boss is essentially a "large pull" with infinite adds, I'm not sure what will fill the gap now.
Losing the uptime is...not going to be fun.
Apparently high GS. In other words to farm up T2 dungeons you will need to be in T2 gear with decent enchants, which makes perfect sence. Not. The nerf bat is out all across the board, hide while you can. But we should expect more nerfs in future since dungeons are too easy for people in 14k gear.
ofc i got it, the problem is u didnt get what i was saying, since the drop is BoP, even he can do t1 he won't be doing that... so T1 running pugs will be stuck with 6k gs fellas...
I really don't think that's the case for DC... been carrying gs 9k DC into spell all the time(and we do 3 times dg during one DD)... cuz DC is just a rare resource... you don't get to pick DC, DC picks you...
However, same cannot be said to TR, if you have a really bad TR, you just can't kill spider b*tch... plus there are just a bunch of them out there waiting for you to pick...
Agreed with that...
GENIUS! They are my words too.
I have played alot of MMORPGs and there are always balance problems. However, Cryptic won a contest by far. Here is my official award as worst game balance designers in a MMORPG. Maybe even in whole history of computer games.
The game designers have to be proven as so completely incompetent, that there is no word for it. But consindering the time they do need to do a change at all, I think, the main time they drink coffee, smoking and chatting during work anyways.
So, you better start upgrading that vorpal, or looking at arpen and practice setting up for the killing blow while praying to the gods of RNG .. while being focused by practically the whole of the opposing team. Sounds like fun doesn't it.
I would say that it's just pandering .. to the lowest common denominator, that *****es and whines when their DC "free kill" turns around and slaps 'em with HoF .. except, I haven't seen such whining.
The fact that it's a daily anyway and a lot harder to power up in pvp than pve and then has to be chosen over something that might benefit the team more overall - nope not hard enough for you.
Easy to see coming damage split over 3 stages, all equally avoidable and all subject to crit chance - nope, still too easy for you.
Still, at least it's damage is sufficient that I can gear/spec for survivablity/heals and still have something fairly effective offensively - hmmm, yea, we'll deal with that then ....
Maybe with all the new enchants and gear and other classes balance tweaks, it will all slot together and make sense. Maybe we won't need to gimp ourselves into tank mode and stack deflect/regen at the expense of some offense, simply because otherwise we're (as someone posted a while back) "fish food". Who knows? A more important question might be "who cares?". I'm getting increasingly bored with this game (and it's playerbase) at the moment anyway, so it's actually hard for me to care and from what I've seen of Feywild, I don't think that's going to change ... and no new pvp maps? I mean, wtf? Add pvp maps to the foundry or something ... DO SOMETHING, .. other than a sub par wintergrasp rip off, designed to make people buy faster mounts.
The combat/skill system in this game is decent. Everything around it though, all it's trappings, are rapidly becoming just a big fat yawn.
Also what does this even mean?
Feat: Healing Step: This feat no longer counts as an Encounter power for the purpose of triggering effects.
What effects does healing step even trigger? Isn't healing step the "effect"? I'm assuming it means no more healing step proccing from seal etc but maybe someone can enlighten me.
The wording on things in this game and in notes etc, .. Cryptic is like ... the perfect name.
.. meh
Cast SB during downtime with foresight. I have stopped using foresight, but i think most of us not using it atm will have to harass the devs until they hand us out a free respec token for all these nerfs. Yep, bye bye healer's lore.
I'm switching games. This is way beyond my tolerance level.
Asking us to spend 100% of our AP so that we have a small chance (contingent upon landing the killing blow...) to regain 15% of our AP...so we can what? Cast another weak Daily?
Would be preferable to remove the skill entirely and replace it with a Daily self buff that breaks free of CC and renders caster immune for 8 seconds or something. Or keep the skill, nerf its damage down to barely usable levels (as currently planned) and give the caster the CC immune buff for X seconds after casting is finished. The proposed change just makes it worthless.
Even Flame Strike will be preferable because the damage will be comparable and AoE rather than single-target.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Sorry, but BoP after patch ...
I get that PE needs to slow down progression. It is far to easy for a person on their first level 60 character to gear up for the highest level of PvE content, and when it comes to Alts after that you can have them CN ready by the time they hit 60 very easily. Gear for the most part is easy to get, the hardest slots being the shirt, pants, higher enchants and special weapon/armor enchants, mainly because they require the acquisition of base components that are rare or only readily attainable via the zen store or by zen store proxy.
BoP will fix this to the extent that it will reduce the supply on the AH, and force you to use the character you are gearing to gear them. This however is a band-aid instead of a cure, in that the root problem is the ability to clear content at an extreme rate due to trash skipping. You can call it exploiting if you want, but we all know it's being done on a massive scale, and if it was really a concern it would have been patched. I don't believe for a second PE is ignorant of what is going on. If someone at PE looked for a PUG group for the dungeon part of GG, how likely do you think it is that they would find a group NOT doing "fast runs"? Maybe they fixed all the holes in the walls along with the rest, but it sure looks like they have chose to patch up rather then fix the core problem.
The cleric changes in the context of the rest fit. They are trying to reduce the availability of dailies. Considering Dailies for a cleric were a good gap filler for the CD change to AS, this will create a further gap in AE healing, and they seem to be pushing to a more targeted healing approach. Have fun with using a pip for HW on a single target multiple times to fill the gap created by increased daily down time combined with the previous AS downtime. Of course channeled at will will help, but it's not fire and forget so yea things will get more interesting, especially when you aren't going to have a steady stream of singularities from a CW.
For these types of changes I'll reserve judgement until I see it all in action, but they seem to be pushing toward more single target healing with a targeting system that is really clunky for healing purposes compared to most games. I have yet to try scripted key mappings for target lock, but I may give that a shot depending, as target lock every time prior to casting a direct heal is tedious, and really wouldn't be necessary for me save for auto target adjust that you can't shut off. I'm not holding my breath that channeled divinity will be buffed enough to make it efficient. I shun it because the heal rate without points spent into improving it has always felt lack luster, and of course if you are channeling you aren't doing something that will result in divinity gain which will still be true after patch. Really this all looked to me like they were further reducing many of our tools and the trade off was that... well we get to slow a single target, and maybe stuff will proc talents more.
Then we come to the HoF change, that was the straw for me, that elicited the "screw you too PE". Nerfing it's damage seemed insulting, and the trade off creates such a synergistic absurdity that I believe the person or team that came up with it should be FIRED, but hey it's probably the same person or persons that came up with the description for Righteousness (I mean come on, at least attempt to make it appear beneficial by describing it as self healing being the base line not self healing being reduced from the base line, the mechanics would remain unchanged). I suspect however instead this person or persons will be promoted to a new position in marketing, keeping in line with the theme of the changes.
Feeling for those of you who have invested heavily in cleric mains.
Now that I think about it, one of the biggest complaints clerics have had over the years is that they have too much healing and not enough ooomph. What version of DnD are you talking about? Granted, there were always powers you took like Bless in earlier versions, but you could carry multiple cure (insert severity here) spells of the same level if you wanted to.
That will only be true when our healing abilities are both strong and flexible enough to allow us to slot something besides heals and not have an inferior chance of success on encounters. I'd argue that this is easily true for trash, but most boss fights I'm not loading any nukes or debuffs which granted may have less to do with the strength of our heals and more to do with the tactics for the fight and the mechanics of our heals. Scaling back healing powers is not going to alleviate this condition, instead it will exasperate it.
Can't they at least give us a response to acknowledge us the way they have for TRs and GWFs? I was dismayed before but I'm getting mad now.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR