degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
For the billionth time: Give players a reason to fight through mobs. There's a reason it's called "trash." I get 2-5 copper per kill, and if I'm lucky I'll have a 20% chance to pick up a rank 4 enchantment? Please.
Unless Cryptic gives some incentive to fight through trash, people will find exploits.
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I always stay away from the so called "speed runs". There is no fun in exploiting in the game. That includes any glitching of bosses, running to campfires, TR sneaking to boss, etc.
Now, there is nothing wrong with being efficient with your pulls and skipping groups of unnecessary mobs.
I have found that when playing with Pugs that when they say "speed run" it usually will end up with a lot of dying. Very casual players that have no skill and need to cheat. When all of it is fixed, it will be hilarious to see what they do.
Have fun and enjoy the game for what it is. It is not always about killing the bosses.
If it's not about killing the bosses, then what's the other that's so wonderful? I must have missed it while dodging adds and red circles. Sure, I'd love to have a nice fight and then lounge for a minute or two absorbing lore and enjoying the view, but after the first few addfests, I'm tired and frustrated, and every second starts to be more and more about exactly that, killing the boss. I want to get to the part where some good at least might come from all of the HAMSTER.
If it's not about killing the bosses, then what's the other that's so wonderful? I must have missed it while dodging adds and red circles. Sure, I'd love to have a nice fight and then lounge for a minute or two absorbing lore and enjoying the view, but after the first few addfests, I'm tired and frustrated, and every second starts to be more and more about exactly that, killing the boss. I want to get to the part where some good at least might come from all of the HAMSTER.
I'll give you another example.
I'm a RTS player. I love these games. When i play a RTS, there are many steps before the final victory: building an economy, the first raids, getting some defences, harassing your enemy, and at some point, you can start the final battle leading to victory. It's like monsters before the boss. Now, if there are no preliminary steps, it's just not fun. That's how such games are designed, you like it or you don't.
Now, in such games, there are cheat codes, most of the times you can't use them in pvp (which is the real purpose of RTS), but let's assume i find a glitch allowing me to use them in this situation. I can spam resources, special units, rush my opponent when i'm done cheating, and i can win. Honnestly, this isn't fun at all. What's fun is the process - some people might call it the journey. Now, RTS are like any other game, at some point you're done with it. That doesn't mean you are allowed to cheat when there are other people involved. It's just not fun for them. What they (still) enjoy is playing the game, playing with the legit mechanics to find the best power combinations, the best strategies.
A game isn't just about rewards, ranks or whatever virtual glory you may earn. If you don't enjoy the whole process, it's completely pointless.
Neverwinter has great combat mechanics. What's before the boss is an important part of the game. It's a place you should have fun with, because you're supposed to enjoy the aforementioned combat mechanics. If you don't, well, i don't know, that's up to you. That doesn't mean you are allowed to cheat though.
I'm a RTS player. I love these games. When i play a RTS, there are many steps before the final victory: building an economy, the first raids, getting some defences, harassing your enemy, and at some point, you can start the final battle leading to victory. It's like monsters before the boss. Now, if there are no preliminary steps, it's just not fun. That's how such games are designed, you like it or you don't.
Do you consider it to be "cheating" if someone skips the economy, defenses, and harass, and go all in with their starting units and a few basic army units on a first and final raid?
Of course this is exploiting and +1 to the OP.
It is cheating any way you look at it. Exploits are for noobs and loot *****s, and definitely not intended by Cryptic. They don't want to destroy their own game by letting ppl get all epic gear in game extremely fast and then go away to another MMO.
They are also doing a poor job in playtesting and fixing exploits, that's why most players are exploiting... Bad dungeon design, primitive graphics engine and poor scripting is no excuse for cheating!
if you are a serious, skilled player you play the game the way it was meant to be played and farm all content, since this is way easier than other rival MMOs end-game content.
Some games have already found fixes for tedious repetitious dungeons. Something called random dungeon creator(can't remember exact word) but every time you queue for dungeon, it randomly generates the layout so you're never doing the same exact run every single time. I absolutely LOVED this because it was like you're doing a new dungeon(same boss) each time.
All Cryptic have to do is take all the good ideas from other mmo's and put them in the game, I don't think it's illegal.:)
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This happens to me my favorite thread ever. At first, I'm all pissy about the idea and basis of a "speed run" and now I kinda understand. I get the boredom is starting to kick in doing the same dungeon, fighting the same mobs and running the same route is losing it's flare. Like doing dread vault as the only dungeon daily. I run through that just so I can move on. Pretty much I can run through it with my eyes close. Don't quote me on that. I know some of you were about to jump all over that, lol.
So here's my two cents or AD if you will.
I don't care if you do speed runs and play the way you do. Its your play style and people enjoys a game different than you. Personally I'm not fond of speed runs but I'm not going to complain about it. Matter of fact, do to these speed runs, I now can afford to buy T2 gear. Find the sunshine in cloudy weather. The only thing that frustrates me is that when I queue for a dungeon during DD, I get the failed speed runs where maybe two people show up. Nowadays its hard to find a group who doesn't do speed runs to adventure with. my suggestion, which will never happen because society sucks that way and does what it wants, is to build your own party and stay out of the automatic queue and let us players who don't want speed run have it. simple enough. you go your way, I go mine.
another note...when broadcasting for speed runs, don't say exp players only because that's confusing to the new people. say something like "LF (class) to do speed run". We can all get along, I promise. Now if we can only get rid of the negative people who talk trash about this game while plying this game and trolling the forums....this would be a great neverwinter world. See you on random adventures. May your blades be sharp and your loot be bountiful, my friends!!
I despise this practice and imo it is just poor game design.
I feel that I am forced to do "speed runs," in order to remain competetive.
The economy will go without me unless I compete in the speed running contest and cash in before fixes.
0
devostifMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Maybe cryptic can put an option in the game where people can queue up for either speed run parties or full clear parties. It's probably the only way to keep everyone happy or at least most people happy.. hopefully.
if they cant fix the ongoing bugs, how can they possibly do that? we just have to deal with two types of gameplay in the same room. people will just have to learn to be patient until the new module will come out and the speed runs wont be as frequent as they are now.
its F2P...no one will ever be happy. its take take take and complain about it. its the American way.
don't have your panties in a bunch folks....im an American.
0
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited August 2013
Coming soon: "When returning to an instance, the player is now placed at his or her previous location."
if they cant fix the ongoing bugs, how can they possibly do that? we just have to deal with two types of gameplay in the same room. people will just have to learn to be patient until the new module will come out and the speed runs wont be as frequent as they are now.
its F2P...no one will ever be happy. its take take take and complain about it. its the American way.
don't have your panties in a bunch folks....im an American.
It has nothing to do with America. It's poor game design.
There are a lot of games developed by Americans that don't have this stupid HAMSTER going on.
God forbid that we complain about shoddy game design for a game that many of us do pay for.
Well, I guess in theory, I do. But for the most part, no.. I don't.
It seems to me that these "speed runs", where someone will race to the next campfire/rez point and 'unlock' it and have everyone relog or die to spawn there is exploiting the game. I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure that the game was not designed with that in mind. It also takes away from the dungeon itself. I mean, what exactly are players playing for if they are just going to skip by all the content to 'earn' their gear.. which, frankly, in my opinion, they aren't really earning.
Maybe this is appealing to some players - the idea of a gaggle of monsters running after you, threatening to kill you outright if they catch you before you finish your race to the campfire. I guess.. I can see that. Well, not really. Maybe we should just petition Cryptic to take all the monsters out of dungeons so we can just walk right up to the bosses and down them. I imagine they could put out a lot more content that way. Certainly wouldn't take as much time. Then again, I imagine a great deal of those same players that exploit this would complain about a lack of content at that point as well.
This is not to say that it isn't efficient. For those times where it actually does work, and everyone gets to the boss and someone doesn't leave out of aggravation, yes.. it is a more efficient way of farming gear. It's also an efficient way of ruining the game.
I digress.
I simply wonder what other players think about it. Clearly I expect some, if not that majority, to share their thoughts supporting the exploitative method, but I;m also curious if there are others who feel the same as I do about it. Maybe I'm the lone-wolf here. I'm also curious if Cryptic intended this, and if not, perhaps they could shed some light and a remedy for it.
amen brother ..this is the reason I quit Neverwinter!
These posts sum up how I feel. Full clears are fun the first few times, but since the dungeons are static and there's only so many...you get bored, typically before you get the drop you want.
my threory is now they wont ever fix the exploits and they must be on purposely putting them into the game to give the 40-60% cheaters an option to exploit. Without the exploits the dungeons are so long and boring people would just have another excuse to leave the game. If they fixed the exploits there would be a large drop in player base. There is no point in asking the devs to really fix them.
Well I've been speedrunning t1 gauntlegrym dungeons. I've wanted to gear up my 5 characters and it would take much longer to gear them up if noone did the speed runs. Of course it's a much smaller dungeon, over 1.5 hours you still may not be able to afford a cheap t2 piece when doing 6 runs. At the end you also may get a t1 piece that may not even be that good. If you didn't speed run, then you'd likely get no t1 piece (which you should already have when participating in gg, even if it's just pvp gear) and be like 1/3 of the way to get the cheapest t2 item which frankly is just too slow. Dwarf King is even worse. You only have time for 1, and have 1/5 of a chance to get t2 gear if you don't get teamed with people that don't just die (happened a lot to me) and is worth about the same coinage. Basically without the exploits, it's a complete waste of time. As for other dungeons, I've had someone else speed run it the one time, we failed though. Presumably they'll fix the path, and when the items can't be sold on the AH, if the coin gain isn't increased, I'm not sure as many people will bother with gg. Although I suppose that's alright since there's new content to occupy us.
Well I've been speedrunning t1 gauntlegrym dungeons. I've wanted to gear up my 5 characters and it would take much longer to gear them up if noone did the speed runs. Of course it's a much smaller dungeon, over 1.5 hours you still may not be able to afford a cheap t2 piece when doing 6 runs. At the end you also may get a t1 piece that may not even be that good. If you didn't speed run, then you'd likely get no t1 piece (which you should already have when participating in gg, even if it's just pvp gear) and be like 1/3 of the way to get the cheapest t2 item which frankly is just too slow. Dwarf King is even worse. You only have time for 1, and have 1/5 of a chance to get t2 gear if you don't get teamed with people that don't just die (happened a lot to me) and is worth about the same coinage. Basically without the exploits, it's a complete waste of time. As for other dungeons, I've had someone else speed run it the one time, we failed though. Presumably they'll fix the path, and when the items can't be sold on the AH, if the coin gain isn't increased, I'm not sure as many people will bother with gg. Although I suppose that's alright since there's new content to occupy us.
This is why they will never fix the exploits and i think why they have them in the first place. You can not say well they didnt know about them. It doesnt take much time to jump around and find the exploits so they had to of found them during there own play testing. They are developers they can run in god mode and dont have to worry about mobs and such. If they fixed the exploits they would have to redesign the dungeons totally to make them not long and so boring. They will never redesign the dungeons that is way beyond the expertise of these developers. They cant fix the exploits or a bunch of people will quit the game. They are the ones who dug them selves into this hole. Its not anyones fault except there own. They hide behind the excuse its F2P they dont have the man power to fix everything in a timely matter.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Just stick with a private group of friends/guild to play dungeons with and you don't have to worry about cheating. Cheating ruins all the fun in this game.
When you get to t2 runs exploiting is almost mandatory or you are booted!!
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ugarthMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited August 2013
I must say that these speed runs and exploits almost ruined the game for me. If I didn't play with 3 of my real life buddies I probably would have stopped because of this HAMSTER.
I find it hilarious really - my group is pretty well BiS geared and, because of that, some of these exploits take longer than just killing the mobs like you are supposed to. With practice, experience and good play you can do the dungeons properly in no time at all, so ultimately this time-saving measure is moot.
Since we are only 4 it can get frustrating trying to find a 5th person of similar mindset to us to complete the dungeons as they were intended. We are on Mindflayer, so if you are reading this and want to group with people who don't mind killing trash and not exploiting the HAMSTER out of already simple content then look us up!
Since we are only 4 it can get frustrating trying to find a 5th person of similar mindset to us to complete the dungeons as they were intended.
There are quite a few other people that share your views - myself included (and yeah, I'm on Mindflayer too). Fortunately I found a guild with a number of other like-minded people, but when they are not around, and I try to find a good PUG, the results have been...eh...mixed.
There are quite a few other people that share your views - myself included (and yeah, I'm on Mindflayer too). Fortunately I found a guild with a number of other like-minded people, but when they are not around, and I try to find a good PUG, the results have been...eh...mixed.
The irony with all these people who seem to "share your views", very few run Dread Vault normal and almost no one runs Epic Dread Vault. Given that dungeon is extremely detrimental/prejudiced to trash exploits, you would expect more people to at least *attempt* to run it...
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
When you get to t2 runs exploiting is almost mandatory or you are booted!!
Don't play with Pugs and you won't encounter that problem.
Last night, my main raid group wanted to do our DD clear of Spider but we were short 1 dps. We did pick one up and we let them know right away, if you want to glitch or exploit you will be booted. Set the ground rules. At least for me as a DC, if I really wanted to pug by myself, I can tell people that I won't heal if they want to cheat.
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Eventually the exploits will be fixed and the weak players who can't legitimately clear the content will end up quitting. They would be best off finding a game where you zone into the instance and the bosses fall over dead and the loot drops in piles of 50... that is about the level of play they are looking for.
Well, I guess in theory, I do. But for the most part, no.. I don't.
It seems to me that these "speed runs", where someone will race to the next campfire/rez point and 'unlock' it and have everyone relog or die to spawn there is exploiting the game. I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure that the game was not designed with that in mind. It also takes away from the dungeon itself. I mean, what exactly are players playing for if they are just going to skip by all the content to 'earn' their gear.. which, frankly, in my opinion, they aren't really earning.
Actual content...such as the boss, miniboss, occasional side boss (Spellplague's eye boss), etc.
Because it would be a stretch to consider trash mobs true content.
Considering that even legit runs will simply KB the mobs off a cliff.
Eventually the exploits will be fixed and the weak players who can't legitimately clear the content will end up quitting. They would be best off finding a game where you zone into the instance and the bosses fall over dead and the loot drops in piles of 50... that is about the level of play they are looking for.
If they can kill the boss, they most likely can deal with simplistic melee mobs that mindlessly run and swipe at you.
I know that it sucks to no longer get gear to sell from the Dungeon Delve chest but it was truly overpowered.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
If they can kill the boss, they most likely can deal with simplistic melee mobs that mindlessly run and swipe at you.[/QUOTE]
Half the time they can't kill the boss... they have to have an exploit like having the boss suicide or standing on top of a statue where the boss can't get to you, etc. Mindless players will have similar issues on trash... over pulling, running way ahead, lots of careless deaths. There are a lot of bad players in this game and cheating is a way for them to feel equal with the rest of the community.
to be honest, I think the idea of speedrunning takes all the fun out of the game (any game for that matter). I can understand why people do it (for a challenge, or farming stuff, etc.) but it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Personally, I love exploring the dungeons, the game is a Dungeons & Dragons game for goodness sake, it's one of the big reasons for playing!
These are just my feelings, and I know plenty of people who have differing opinions, but this is normal =3
Yeah, but are you literally going to have fun exploring the same dungeon for 10000 times?
It's the same dungeon and nothing in that dungeon is new after the first couple runs. What is exciting about it after a week of running the dungeons?
Comments
Unless Cryptic gives some incentive to fight through trash, people will find exploits.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Now, there is nothing wrong with being efficient with your pulls and skipping groups of unnecessary mobs.
I have found that when playing with Pugs that when they say "speed run" it usually will end up with a lot of dying. Very casual players that have no skill and need to cheat. When all of it is fixed, it will be hilarious to see what they do.
Have fun and enjoy the game for what it is. It is not always about killing the bosses.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
If it's not about killing the bosses, then what's the other that's so wonderful? I must have missed it while dodging adds and red circles. Sure, I'd love to have a nice fight and then lounge for a minute or two absorbing lore and enjoying the view, but after the first few addfests, I'm tired and frustrated, and every second starts to be more and more about exactly that, killing the boss. I want to get to the part where some good at least might come from all of the HAMSTER.
I'll give you another example.
I'm a RTS player. I love these games. When i play a RTS, there are many steps before the final victory: building an economy, the first raids, getting some defences, harassing your enemy, and at some point, you can start the final battle leading to victory. It's like monsters before the boss. Now, if there are no preliminary steps, it's just not fun. That's how such games are designed, you like it or you don't.
Now, in such games, there are cheat codes, most of the times you can't use them in pvp (which is the real purpose of RTS), but let's assume i find a glitch allowing me to use them in this situation. I can spam resources, special units, rush my opponent when i'm done cheating, and i can win. Honnestly, this isn't fun at all. What's fun is the process - some people might call it the journey. Now, RTS are like any other game, at some point you're done with it. That doesn't mean you are allowed to cheat when there are other people involved. It's just not fun for them. What they (still) enjoy is playing the game, playing with the legit mechanics to find the best power combinations, the best strategies.
A game isn't just about rewards, ranks or whatever virtual glory you may earn. If you don't enjoy the whole process, it's completely pointless.
Neverwinter has great combat mechanics. What's before the boss is an important part of the game. It's a place you should have fun with, because you're supposed to enjoy the aforementioned combat mechanics. If you don't, well, i don't know, that's up to you. That doesn't mean you are allowed to cheat though.
Do you consider it to be "cheating" if someone skips the economy, defenses, and harass, and go all in with their starting units and a few basic army units on a first and final raid?
It is cheating any way you look at it. Exploits are for noobs and loot *****s, and definitely not intended by Cryptic. They don't want to destroy their own game by letting ppl get all epic gear in game extremely fast and then go away to another MMO.
They are also doing a poor job in playtesting and fixing exploits, that's why most players are exploiting...
Bad dungeon design, primitive graphics engine and poor scripting is no excuse for cheating!
if you are a serious, skilled player you play the game the way it was meant to be played and farm all content, since this is way easier than other rival MMOs end-game content.
Holy Resurrector and Grand Master of OPUS DEI
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
http://opusdei.abyssportal.com
All Cryptic have to do is take all the good ideas from other mmo's and put them in the game, I don't think it's illegal.:)
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
So here's my two cents or AD if you will.
I don't care if you do speed runs and play the way you do. Its your play style and people enjoys a game different than you. Personally I'm not fond of speed runs but I'm not going to complain about it. Matter of fact, do to these speed runs, I now can afford to buy T2 gear. Find the sunshine in cloudy weather. The only thing that frustrates me is that when I queue for a dungeon during DD, I get the failed speed runs where maybe two people show up. Nowadays its hard to find a group who doesn't do speed runs to adventure with. my suggestion, which will never happen because society sucks that way and does what it wants, is to build your own party and stay out of the automatic queue and let us players who don't want speed run have it. simple enough. you go your way, I go mine.
another note...when broadcasting for speed runs, don't say exp players only because that's confusing to the new people. say something like "LF (class) to do speed run". We can all get along, I promise. Now if we can only get rid of the negative people who talk trash about this game while plying this game and trolling the forums....this would be a great neverwinter world. See you on random adventures. May your blades be sharp and your loot be bountiful, my friends!!
I feel that I am forced to do "speed runs," in order to remain competetive.
The economy will go without me unless I compete in the speed running contest and cash in before fixes.
its F2P...no one will ever be happy. its take take take and complain about it. its the American way.
don't have your panties in a bunch folks....im an American.
It has nothing to do with America. It's poor game design.
There are a lot of games developed by Americans that don't have this stupid HAMSTER going on.
God forbid that we complain about shoddy game design for a game that many of us do pay for.
amen brother ..this is the reason I quit Neverwinter!
Next time I think I'll let you die. ;D
Once you get a solid group going speed runs are the only way to fly!
my threory is now they wont ever fix the exploits and they must be on purposely putting them into the game to give the 40-60% cheaters an option to exploit. Without the exploits the dungeons are so long and boring people would just have another excuse to leave the game. If they fixed the exploits there would be a large drop in player base. There is no point in asking the devs to really fix them.
This is why they will never fix the exploits and i think why they have them in the first place. You can not say well they didnt know about them. It doesnt take much time to jump around and find the exploits so they had to of found them during there own play testing. They are developers they can run in god mode and dont have to worry about mobs and such. If they fixed the exploits they would have to redesign the dungeons totally to make them not long and so boring. They will never redesign the dungeons that is way beyond the expertise of these developers. They cant fix the exploits or a bunch of people will quit the game. They are the ones who dug them selves into this hole. Its not anyones fault except there own. They hide behind the excuse its F2P they dont have the man power to fix everything in a timely matter.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
I find it hilarious really - my group is pretty well BiS geared and, because of that, some of these exploits take longer than just killing the mobs like you are supposed to. With practice, experience and good play you can do the dungeons properly in no time at all, so ultimately this time-saving measure is moot.
Since we are only 4 it can get frustrating trying to find a 5th person of similar mindset to us to complete the dungeons as they were intended. We are on Mindflayer, so if you are reading this and want to group with people who don't mind killing trash and not exploiting the HAMSTER out of already simple content then look us up!
Akta Demoneye (12.2k CW - Mindflayer server)
There are quite a few other people that share your views - myself included (and yeah, I'm on Mindflayer too). Fortunately I found a guild with a number of other like-minded people, but when they are not around, and I try to find a good PUG, the results have been...eh...mixed.
The irony with all these people who seem to "share your views", very few run Dread Vault normal and almost no one runs Epic Dread Vault. Given that dungeon is extremely detrimental/prejudiced to trash exploits, you would expect more people to at least *attempt* to run it...
Don't play with Pugs and you won't encounter that problem.
Last night, my main raid group wanted to do our DD clear of Spider but we were short 1 dps. We did pick one up and we let them know right away, if you want to glitch or exploit you will be booted. Set the ground rules. At least for me as a DC, if I really wanted to pug by myself, I can tell people that I won't heal if they want to cheat.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Actual content...such as the boss, miniboss, occasional side boss (Spellplague's eye boss), etc.
Because it would be a stretch to consider trash mobs true content.
Considering that even legit runs will simply KB the mobs off a cliff.
If they can kill the boss, they most likely can deal with simplistic melee mobs that mindlessly run and swipe at you.
Half the time they can't kill the boss... they have to have an exploit like having the boss suicide or standing on top of a statue where the boss can't get to you, etc. Mindless players will have similar issues on trash... over pulling, running way ahead, lots of careless deaths. There are a lot of bad players in this game and cheating is a way for them to feel equal with the rest of the community.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Yeah, but are you literally going to have fun exploring the same dungeon for 10000 times?
It's the same dungeon and nothing in that dungeon is new after the first couple runs. What is exciting about it after a week of running the dungeons?